Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Jabroniville
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Starhawk! Adam Warlock! Her! Pip! Gamora!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Arcae wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:13 am So basically Gamora went from supposed deadly fighter who doesn't do much and dress like a stripper to supposed deadly fighter who doesn't do much and is dressed like a person actually would when going on missions in space.
Yeah, that's about the size of it. She was also in some solo books that have a lot of stuff that seems like it was supposed to be important, but because it's modern comics it didn't mean anything because the next writer came along and had their own ideas. At least we haven't seen a thousand retcons like with most other popular characters.

I get the impression Marvel's kind of leaving her "hovering" since they're waiting for the movies to do more stuff with her. Which is funny, because the Gamora we know and love from the movies is now dead and pre-evil Gamora is now kinda left there in a weird time travel "same but different" kind of way, lol.

How long have you been reading comics or gaming, anyhow? Since you're new I don't know your history as well as the others.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Thanos

Post by Jabroniville »

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THANOS
Created By:
Jim Starlin
First Appearance: Iron Man #55 (Feb. 1973)
Role: Epic Villain, Cosmic Destroyer
PL 16 (347)
STRENGTH
15 STAMINA 16 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 13 AWARENESS 5 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Deception 11 (+15)
Expertise (Arcane Lore) 4 (+17)
Expertise (Cosmic Lore) 8 (+21)
Expertise (History) 2 (+15)
Expertise (Science) 12 (+25)
Expertise (Military) 3 (+16)
Insight 10 (+15)
Intimidation 11 (+15)
Investigation 4 (+9)
Perception 8 (+13)
Stealth 3 (+4)
Technology 12 (+25)
Treatment 3 (+16)
Vehicles 5 (+9)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Assessment, Beginner's Luck, Benefit (Super-Dictator) 2, Diehard, Equipment 20 (Personal Teleporter, Time Travel, Flight Chair, Helicopter With "Thanos" Written on the Side, etc), Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Blasts) 2, Inventor, Jack-of-All-Trades, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 8, Ritualist, Startle, Taunt, Takedown, Trance, Ultimate Technology Skill, Ultimate Will Save, Well-Informed, Withstand Damage

Powers:
Regeneration 8 (Feats: Regrow Limbs) [9]
Impervious Toughness 9 [9]
Immunity 10 (Life Support) [10]
Power-Lifting 5 (25,000 tons) [5]

Cosmic Blasts 20 (Feats: Split, Penetrating 10) (51) -- [56]
  • AE: "Cosmic Wave" Damage 16 (Extras: Area- 120ft. Cone +2) (48)
  • AE: "Cosmic Stream" Damage 16 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Line +2) (48)
  • AE: "Telekinesis" Move Object 16 (32)
  • AE: "Telepathy" Mind-Reading 8 Linked to Communication (Mental) 2 (24)
  • AE: Force Field 4 (4)
Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+15 Damage, DC 30)
Cosmic Blasts +12 (+20 Ranged Damage, DC 35)
Cosmic Area Attacks +16 (+16 Damage, DC 31)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +16 (+20 Force Field), Fortitude +16, Will +16

Complications:
Relationship (Death)- Thanos is in love with Mistress Death, the embodiment of the ending of life. As such, he wants to kill as many beings as possible in order to win her favour. He never quite gets it, to his eternal moping sadness. In recent years, it's been implied they finally hooked up, after he offered something OTHER than death (he helped save the Universe from The Annihilation Wave).
Enemy (Captain Mar-Vell, The Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock)- Thanos has three key foes in most of his schemes. When Mar-Vell died, Thanos refused to let his greatest foe meet his end due to mere cancer, and fought him one last time.
Enemy (Drax the Destroyer)- Drax was killed by Thanos years ago and reborn into a powerful green form whose only goal is to murder The Mad Titan.
Responsibility (Unworthy)- Thanos knows, deep-down, that he is unworthy of ultimate power, and often finds himself losing Omnipotence- The Cosmic Cube, Infinity Gems and more have all fallen out of his grasp.

Total: Abilities: 138 / Skills: 96--48 / Advantages: 52 / Powers: 89 / Defenses: 20 (347)

Thanos- Marvel's Mega-Villain:
-Where to start with Thanos? The guy went from a random New Gods knock-off to become the biggest villain at Marvel, and eventually the biggest villain in MOVIES, owing to the tremendous success of him at the peak of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Translating Jim Starlin's best arc and best villain into the movies came us one of the most iconic movie scenes in history, as the "Thanos Snap" spreads across the cosmos and wipes out countless people. The villain WINS, and the heroes have to spend the next movie all trying to undo it. Along the way, he has become somewhat notorious for how defensive Starlin was of him, often re-writing old losses to be clones or "Thanos-bots" or whatever, while writing endless stories that feature Thanos winning and winning and can only be defeated by either Adam Warlock or another version of himself. You'd get the impression these days that most comics fans don't even LIKE Thanos, especially as his name value diminished and diminished ever since Infinity Gauntlet came out... but then out comes the Avengers: Infinity War series as he's the biggest name possible.

-But the character really fits as a "Big Image" kind of guy- most super-villains want to take over the world, or the galaxy. Thanos? He wants to KILL EVERYTHING. And not for his own power... he just wants to impress a girl. And THAT'S where true uniqueness lies- Thanos is essentially some Cosmic Incel, desperately trying to get the attention of a woman. It gives a sense of pathos and inner tragedy to the character- that all this crazy stuff is to impress someone else, so all of his Grand Cosmic Ambitions are kind of reduced to a fairly "human" origin- a desire to be loved. It just so happens that the object of his affection is FRIGGIN' DEATH.

Thanos Debuts:
-So Thanos incongruously debuted in the pages of Iron Man in a short arc done by Jim Starlin. He was a bad-ass, grim-looking space dude, a lot skinnier than he'd later be depicted as being... and he was essentially Darkseid in a Metron suit- the story goes that Starlin was making a Metron rip-off, and another guy at Marvel said "if we're gonna rip off a New God, we may as well rip off the good one". Starlin had used some "Philosophy 101" by making Thanos into a personification of Death- "Thanatos" was said to be the Freudian desire of many people to die (the origin of self-destructive behaviors). He was the son of Mentor, leader of the Eternals of Titan, a weird offshoot of Kirby's Earth Eternals who are slightly less powerful. Thanos was the brother of handsome, charming Eros ("Eros" was the opposite of "Thanatos" in said philosophy), but carried "Deviant" genes, which made him gnarled and ugly.

-Thanos's backstory was that his own mother feared what he would become, and Thanos grew up as a pacifist, only caring for Eros and their pets. But he'd grown obsessed with nihilism and entropy, eventually worshipping and FALLING IN LOVE with the feminine-presenting personification of Death, who typically appeared as a skull-faced woman with a nice body. Thanos learned both magic AND science in order to shift his body into a powerful form, and eventually became a "Space Pirate". Then, when Death actually appeared before him, Thanos slaughtered his own offspring and set off a nuclear bombardment of Titan that killed millions- he also grabs the Cosmic Cube on Earth, injuring an Earth family in the process (two- the dead father and living daughter- are transformed into Drax the Destroyer and Moondragon, respectively). Thanos uses the Cube to make himself omnipotent, but Captain Mar-Vell and the Avengers destroy the Cube, stopping him. This, notably, features Iron Man not at all in the summation, so it's pretty clear that Starlin just sorta latched Thanos onto whatever book he was writing- now I wonder what it'd have been like if he was writing Daredevil at the time?

-Thanos returns during the Warlock series, actually helping Warlock fight the Magus and his Universal Church of Truth. It turns out that the assassin Gamora was Thanos's adopted daughter. Ultimately, Thanos is in it for himself- Gamora was initially supposed to execute Warlock to avoid the rise of the Magus, and Thanos later siphoned off the Soul Gem and its associated Gems (initially called "Soul Gems") to gain more power- ultimately, Warlock, who sacrifices himself, uses the Soul Gem to turn Thanos to stone. The dead Titan's spirit later appears before Mar-Vell to take him to the afterlife following a great battle, despising that such a powerful enemy would die in bed, of a disease. Eventually, Thanos went from "kinda big" to "Friggin' HUGE", gaining in size until he was borderline Hulk-like in mass.

The Infinity Gauntlet:
-Several years later, Jim Starlin writes his Magnum Opus: during Thanos Quest, Thanos is revived by Death for the sole purpose of killing half of all life in the universe. Realizing the Soul Gems are more powerful than initially thought after gazing through Death's magical well, he gathers each one, defeating the Elders of the Universe in the process, usually by outwitting them. Starlin's mania towards Thanos is such that billion-year-old beings are one-upped by his genius- the Champion blows up an entire planet in his fury and has to give up his Power Gem to Thanos. The Gardener has his garden sped up by the Power Gem overloading it, and is killed by it- Thanos takes the Time Gem. The Time Gem lets Thanos defeat The Runner, aging him to childhood- this only "infant Elder in existence" is thus traded to The Controller, who gives up his Reality Gem, especially after learning what it was really capable of ("All this time, I had no idea- GET IT OUT OF MY SIGHT!"). Finally, Thanos defeats The Grandmaster in a space battle, taking the Soul Gem. Combining all the Gems together into the "Infinity Gauntlet", he becomes master of all reality... but Death STILL won't speak to him directly- before, she was his superior. Now, he is HER superior. And so Thanos sheds a tear, finding his victory hollow.

-The Infinity Gauntlet leads to a dramatic series of events. Seeking to impress Death, he takes on Mephisto as an advisor. He forces Eros to be a witness to everything, robbing him of his mouth (he thus narrates the story), while his "granddaughter", Nebula, is left in a torturous half-dead state. A temperamental moment creates a shockwave that kills millions on Earth (as Japan and California sink into the ocean), and the heroes unite against him. A resurrected Adam Warlock becomes key to beating the Titan, even as Thanos lashes out at Death for continuously ignoring him. Thanos finally snaps his fingers in an iconic moment, erasing half the people in the universe from existence (the movie would later one-up this by having people fade into "Dust" rather than just pop away, and then keep them this way for FIVE YEARS). Along the way, he creates "Terraxia" to shame Death with "the perfect woman" (notably a female version of Thanos that rarely speaks). He kills most of Marvel's remaining heroes when they attack- Terraxia kills Iron Man & Spider-Man, showing just how little Starlin thought of some characters. Namor & She-Hulk are beaten by some random fuzzy things. Cyclops suffocates with a cube around his head. Cloak explodes trying to contain Thanos, and Quasar is just humiliated when his Quantum Bands explode. There are only a few survivors, but Captain America gets an all-time bad-ass moment taking a last stand against Thanos that nearly saves everything- the Silver Surfer nearly takes the Gauntlet and Thanos realizes how he nearly lost everything.

The Tale Concludes:
-Ultimately, Thanos takes full power, and a follow-up issue sees him defeat Marvel's Cosmic Beings one by one- Celestials, Galactus, Kronos, Love & Hate, Order & Chaos, and even ETERNITY are defeated! Thanos boasts as he "becomes the universe" by taking Eternity's "star-field" form... but right then, his empty mortal frame is spotted by Nebula, who swipes the Gauntlet from his hand and takes the power for herself. Nebula herself then undoes everything Thanos did, and defeats the Cosmic Beings anew, but Adam Warlock ends up with the Gauntlet in the end. His theory: That Thanos ends up self-sabotaging because he himself knows that he is unworthy of the universal powers he craves. A defeated, humbled Thanos decides to become a simple farmer.

-This story was EPIC. Giving us a universally-powerful villain who nonetheless had "human" elements in the Marvel style, Thanos's heartbreak as Death just didn't want anything to do with him helped make him more than just some generic Dark Lord. That he actually succeeded in gaining his power, then reveled in it, killing trillions and wiping out all of Marvel's Cosmic Beings. I mean, there's Power Geeking and then there's THAT. And since it was done through cleverness, and notably had never really been done before, it didn't come off as silly or like he was just whipping his dick out and measuring it. Later writers, including Starlin... fail to get a lot of that.

The Follow-Ups:
-So Thanos is now the biggest villain star in Marvel, but the story just ENDED, so what do you do? Well, Warlock entrusts Thanos with the Reality Gem once he's forced to split the Gems up- since Thanos won't try to refashion the Gauntlet, it's "safe" with him. Thanos helps out during both the Infinity War & Infinity Crusade, Gauntlet follow-ups with diminishing returns. Starlin eventually quits Marvel, leaving Thanos without his "daddy" for the first time... and later writers just kind of mess around with him. The stories sometimes kinda diminish Thanos (Mark Waid uses him in KA-ZAR of all books, where a mission fails against a Tarzan knock-off), though he does a good "Generic Super-Villain" run in Thor, where Thor defeats him and Mangog after a huge battle. Later, he & Death fight the "Rot"- a cosmic abberation created by his life for her. And then Starlin gets in an immediately rewrites some past defeats, explaining that the versions that lost to Ka-Zar & Thor were actually CLONES and thus those "don't count". This kind of think later helped hurt Thanos & Doom's reputation as "Villain Sues" when protective creators kept doing shit like this.

-Thanos becomes central to a great number of stories nobody reads- he defeats Akhenaten when he attempts to use the Heart of the Universe to take over Earth- Death speaks to him for the first time, kissing him, and he gives up conquest. Aaaaaaaaand then he appears in Annihilation, defeating the Fallen One and using him as a minion, and joins Annihilus's forces. But once he realizes that Annihilus plans to destroy everything other than himself, Thanos decides to switch sides... only to be executed by Drax, the being created to destroy him. Along the way, he is defeated in a quick story by Squirrel Girl. He quickly returns in The Thanos Imperative, and he kills the avatar of the Cancerverse, Mar-Vell, but is trapped within its collapse by Richard "Nova" Rider. He of course pops up quickly, and is oddly used as a generic bad guy in the Infinity stuff- we learn that an Inhuman-born son of his is on Earth, and this leads to the release of the Terrigen Mists that set off the whole "NuHumans" thing. Then he joins The Cabal, an evil group formed by Namor that destroys worlds to prevent the incursions that are slowly destroying the Multiverse. This is all very "Small Time" for a guy who tends to dominate every story- like, sometimes he's just this big dude punching people to death, and he's not even the group leader! Ultimately, he is killed by a newly-divine God Emperor Doom. A very ignominious end.

Jim Starlin Returns- Thanos Gets Some Filler Comics:
-OKAY, so right around this point, Thanos's visage appears at the end of the first Avengers film. Jim Starlin, being a clever sort, was like "OH HEY Y'ALL, here's the first pic I ever drew of Thanos!" and shared it on social media. The point was clear: "Hey, I created this guy who's about to be a big star". Marvel/Disney, not being idiots, was like "Oh hey, want a job, Creator of Thanos who we now don't want to piss off?" "Oh hey, sure!". And so Starlin was now writing for Marvel again, more or less doing whatever he wanted because nobody wanted him raising a fuss or wanting more money now that the character was gonna be famous.

-In The Infinity Conflict Thanos is merged with his future self and engages in some wank-y stuff as he defeats all of the Cosmic Beings, including Eternity & Infinity, on his way to fight the Living Tribunal & the One Above All (the mythical being said to be even stronger than the Tribunal)- it requires Eros going into the past, something with Kang, and more, and finally Past Thanos frees himself and takes control of Future Thanos and re-sets everything. So the only one who can beat Thanos is Thanos. In Civil War II, Thanos is again a random baddie, who defeats and kills War Machine, and cripples She-Hulk before being beaten. This sets off the whole "We need to start PREDICTING crimes" thing that started that whole dumb event. He later finds out he's dying, and kills Mentor when his father proves unable to cure him. In another story, Thane (his Inhuman son) gains the Phoenix Force and Death's favor, and strips Thanos of all his might. Thanos sees a future in which he becomes a great hero and leader of the Avengers, living a life of peace... but he laughs maniacally and goes back to evil because Good Is Dumb. Most of the other Infinity stories focus on Adam Warlock instead, but the two occasionally did a weird "Buddy Cop" thing.

Thanos Overall:
-The Mad Titan is a strange one. He's a guy who's been in like... zero good stories since the 1990s, and was having diminishing returns even by then. Part of the issue is he got "too big"- he has the kind of credibility Darkseid can only dream of (he WON! He became omnipotent like seven times!), but that carries with it some responsibilities, and the stories now have to be either incredibly "big" to count, or it looks weirdly small-time (even the Thor story featuring Mangog looked weird to be because like... since when does a SINGLE HERO fight and beat Thanos?). His reputation was also marred by Starlin's fascination with him- a few defeats being rewritten to be "Thanos Clones" made Starlin look pathetic about his Pet Villain, and this damaged Thanos's rep to the point where it's almost always brought up any time Thanos is mentioned. Even The Infinity Gauntlet, a classic tale that's almost never been properly replicated ("The Villain Won" mixed with "Everyone Dies" with so much Cosmic stuff being at the core of it), kind of petered out by the end- the whole "Nebula grabs the Gauntlet and we restart everything" bit really puts a hurting on the story and stops its momentum, in my opinion.

-But Thanos succeeds in most things a villain should succeed in- most importantly, he LOOKS COOL. He's this giant purple-skinned muscular dude with a Skrull's ribbed chin, which shouldn't work, but just DOES- his color scheme is otherworldly and distinctive as hell, he's friggin' huge, and his black eyes just come off as empty and cosmic. He also has a legacy of victory. Say what you will about Starlin's obsession, but he had Thanos beat, outsmart, and outplay a ridiculous assortment of high-end threats, and even though Marvel kinda overdoes the "character beats a Cosmic Being" trope a few too many times... Thanos INVENTED that bit. Like, you didn't see guys beating Galactus or Master Order down every other year back in 1992- this counted, and it was BIG. It was sufficiently huge for the era, was importantly WRITTEN as if it was a big deal (the importance of this can't be understated- if you just have the Cosmics get blown down in a row it looks like it means nothing and carries zero weight), and more. And then Thanos was "humanized" because it was all done for love- this was a great character hook that in no way diminished his evil (since he was in love WITH DEATH), yet made him more than just another grand conquering Dark Lord who sat there smirking with his hands clenched behind his back- Thanos had a plan but a different motivation than everyone.

-Hell, this guy's so awesome that the villain generally considered his basis, Darkseid, is now LOWER on the Totem Pole of Villain Awesome! And at least he doesn't wear hooker-boots. What's interesting that his Pop Culture Cache is immense thanks to the movies, but in the comics his rep has never been poorer, thanks to a lot of very forgettable Starlin tales and mis-use of him in major events. Thanos as a "Generic Space Baddie" is just not a good look for him, but writers can't always make up the big grand plans a guy like this needs to have, so it's a mess.

MCU Thanos:
-Thanos was used PERFECTLY in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Very quick hints here and there about him... and then he finally debuts in a fight by wiping out an Asgardian ship, then EASILY BEATS THE HULK, physically overpowering him on camera and winning through sheer might. And then he gathers the "Infinity Stones" (as they've been renamed), winning them by a mix of power and guile, then gets the same level of humanity as in the comics (made less "Weird" by being less about Death and more about Malthusian "we need to have fewer people so the resources can go further" stuff), via his relationship with Gamora, where you can see the pain in his face as he is "forced" to kill her to get what he wants- he's gone too far to go back, and kills the only person he loves, and you can see how this hurts him, evil as he is.

-And then, just like in Infinity Gauntlet... HE WON. He gets what he wants. But even more horribly, he wins for five solid years, changing the world forever- beloved heroes die on-camera ("I don't wanna go-- I'm sorry...! I'm sorry...!"), the universe is screwed, etc. What's funny is in the next movie he's practically nothing to the story- the heroes easily kill him out of vengeance right at the beginning, and then there's some weird time-travel stuff as Past Thanos heads to our time and that's the big battle- by this point, here's little more than a speed bump as the heroes pick up win after win against him. Like, nobody really "remembers" Thanos from the second movie, because it's put almost entirely in the heroes' hands this time. And yet it still "works" because they made him a megastar in the first Infinity War, then sacrificed the biggest star in the MCU to get rid of him, as Iron Man dies erasing Thanos and his armies from history- the implication here is that Thanos would simply crush them all through sheer attrition, no matter how big a group of heroes they had.

"I Am Inevitable"- The Might of Thanos:
-Thanos is overwhelmingly dangerous, but with stats that can be tricky because they vary here and there, and his quest usually involves some kind of Gear. He's mean because he was not only the equivalent of every powerhouse in Marvel Comics, but he was also depicted as a Doom-level genius and planner. The fact that Jim Starlin is a pro at creating insane super-plans helps make Thanos a God of Planning not just in "Informed Ability", but it's SHOWCASED over and over again. Witness Thanos Quest, where he collected all the Infinity Gems from beings far in excess of his own power (many of whom were really easy to fool, but still). Thanos' stats are difficult, mainly because you could make him anywhere from PL 13 to 18 and be satisfied. I'll settle for this monstrously bad-ass version, with super-powerful energy blasts, but not enough to be unsurpassable- overall, he's enough to beat Thor or The Hulk in a straight-up fight, and handle the entire Avengers at once, but could still theoretically lose. He's a lethal Powerhouse, a dangerous Blaster, AND a Tech guy, so much so that his "Equipment" contains things that are normally under Devices for most people- just in case he wants to use a Time Travel Machine, or a Teleporter. He doesn't always have them, though, but at 347 points, the GM is certainly able to just handwave him as having these things 'just because'.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Adam Warlock! Her! Pip! Gamora! Thanos!)

Post by Skavenger »

The strange thing is, I still love the Ka-Zar run, including the storyline against Thanos, despite knowing how stupid it is a guy with zero powers can defeat a guy who once held the entire universe in the palm of his hand, and even after I just talked about how Marvel should have "tiers" of who can and can't defeat other people. But, it wasn't just a 'Hero manages to punch out Villain X times more powerful than him' story, it was a storyline that, while it wasn't perfect, did play off standard Thanos tropes. He has his overreliance on artifacts, he can get distracted after he thinks he's won and the power gimmick can be removed from him, but he still hits like a freight train and can't be defeated by just punching him forever.
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Adam Warlock! Her! Pip! Gamora! Thanos!)

Post by Ares »

Ah Thanos. I know I railed against the guy in my Warlock post, and I do stand by everything I said. But he's still an interesting villain and one of Marvel's greats when Starlin isn't Starlining so hard all over him.

While Thanos was seemingly created to be Marvel's answer to Darkseid, it is fun to examine how they differ. Both characters should in theory, at the very least, be able to stalemate Superman/Thor-level heroes and potentially be able to take on multiple of such heroes by themselves. Both are schemers who would rather outthink their opponent than simply beat them into submission. Both have vast cosmic power, both are in service to cosmic concepts, and both have a somewhat similar appearance. Both are incredibly smug A-Holes who have threatened the entire universe regularly. Both are fond of comfy chairs.

In contrast however, Darkseid owns an entire planet of demi-gods where Thanos tends to prefer to work alone, or through a relatively small group of minions (at least before Infinity War the movie). Darkseid wants to control everything to establish perfect order, Thanos wants to please the concept of Death itself. Darkseid is laser focused on the Anti-Life Equation, Thanos will go after any source that will give him godlike power.

The big difference between the two, naturally is that Thanos has Starlin to defend him, while Darkseid is often opposite Superman, who often gets Starlin-level protection from several writers at DC. Darkseid is allowed to fail more often than Thanos, the latter of whom always has daddy Starlin to come in and try and retcon away his lowest showings.

It's unfortunate, because things like Thanos Quest should be an amazing story. In theory, Thanos Quest is about Thanos being the underdog, having to lay claim to the Infinity Gems being held by the Elders of the Universe, any of whom could potentially destroy him, and has to win through cunning and guile. Unfortunately, Starlin had Thanos look smart by often having the Elders written out of character, behaving like idiots, ignoring their established history, etc. So instead of making Thanos look exceptionally smart, Starlin just makes the Elders look weak and stupid.

Which like I said, is unfortunate because I like the concept of Thanos, I like how he gets portrayed at times, but Starlin's involvement just rubs me the wrong way. Which might sound hypocritical considering my favorite Marvel Villain is Dr. Doom, who had similar writer protection with the invention of the Doom Bot. But at the same time, I feel Doom has more depth, he has achieved more with less, he's overall more entertaining, and he's achieved godhood about as often as Thanos has. Also, Doom is allowed to lose and be thwarted.

As discussed before, an issue is that Thanos is smug, whereas Doom comes off as entertainingly arrogant. And smug only works if the hero wipes the smug off the villain's face. And while Doom isn't a hero, it was satisfying to see him obliege us all here:


Image


I do like the idea of the Black Order being used to give Thanos his own goon squad, and the idea of him training women like Gamora and Nebula to serve him as his own version of the Female Furies is also kind of interesting. I've said before that I think Dr. Doom could benefit from his own Elite Mook Squad. And Thanos was entertaining in the MCU, even if his reasoning / motivation was insane and simplistic. It was annoying that they made the "finger snap" some integral part of the gauntlet. The whole notion of Thanos snapping half the universe out of existence was to showcase just how powerful the gauntlet made him, where with a snap of his fingers, untold trillions of beings died.

Overall, I like Thanos as a concept, but Starlin has annoyed me to the point where I just want to see heroes take turn kicking his butt.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Jabroniville
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...

Post by Jabroniville »

Yeah, Thanos is one of those characters who was hurt by a combination of over-exposure and bad Starlin stories... right when they could have used him to MAJOR effect when the movies made him the most substantial Movie Mega-Villain in decades. I mean, the MCU had a lot of snide, snarky villains, but nothing like THIS. This was a "Comic Book Mega-Villain" in cinematic form, and it was really unusual for the time. And instead if felt like Marvel had just used Thanos in a holding pattern until then.
Jabroniville
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The Infinity Gems

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE INFINITY GEMS (aka The Soul Gems, The Infinity Stones)
First Appearance:
The Power of Warlock #1 (Aug. 1972- Soul Gem), Marvel Team-Up #55 (March 1977- Power & Time Gems), Avengers Annual #7 (1977- Space, Mind & Reality Gems)
Role: Super Cosmic Macguffin, The Ultimate Weapon

The Infinity Gems- Iconic Macguffins:
-So what remains one of the most famous bits of gear in the history of comics (I think the Batmobile & Utility Belt might be the only things more well-known at this point) is this PHENOMENAL idea that all existence could be controlled by gathering these six different gems of power together- each one representing a different thing. Mind, Power, Space, Time, Reality & Soul- a vast swath that could be used to explain anything. And gathering all six of them together on a simple glove, thus letting the user do whatever he wanted with this iconic accessory that also let him make cool poses to show off his fist, or show energy blasts coming from his hands? Well that's just a master-stroke, and part of why this thing became so famous.

-Initially, only the "Soul Gem" was known- a green gem typically held on Adam Warlock's forehead, and could absorb people's souls into its "Soul World". Four years after its introduction, a second "Soul Gem" was revealed, and it was eventually stated that there were six, and each had a differerent power. But when Jim Starlin left Marvel, they were left sitting there, un-used- Marvel usually used the various Cosmic Cubes to represent "Omnipotent Power". In 1988, a Starlin Silver Surfer story had the Elders of the Universe gather the Gems together to steal the energy of Galactus in order to end his threat permanently... and suddenly they started appearing a WHOLE lot more.

The Infinity Gauntlet Saga:
-In Thanos Quest, Thanos gathers them together, and just decides to change their name. Now called "Infinity Gems", their power is more directly stated, as the Power Gem makes one stronger than ever, while the Space Gem allows teleportation and speed- the Reality Gem is most dangerous, as it can restructure all existence. Thanos thus combines them together into the Infinity Gauntlet, which he uses to wipe out half of all life in the universe, defeat Marvel's heroes, and unseat all the Cosmic Beings in a giant fight. Ultimately, Thanos is beaten by his own lack of care, and the Gems are forced apart. Adam Warlock forms the Infinity Watch, keeping a Gem on a variety of trusted people- himself (Soul), Gamora (Time), Pip the Troll (Space), Moondragon (Mind), Drax (Power) and Thanos himself (Reality). And so the Watch tries to prevent others from taking the Gems... which fails as The Magus (Warlock's evil future self) combines them together less than a year later. The Goddess does the same thing the next year, but eventually the Infinity Watch keeps them for a bit until the series in cancelled in 1995.

Post-Starlin Stuff:
-The Gems had by this point become THE iconic set of gear in Marvel, and so they got used a few more times, even as Marvel dropped its Cosmic Scene and most of the books were cancelled. The Marvel Super-Heroes Capcom fighting game features the Gems as floating power-ups that randomly appear on various stages, and Thanos himself is the game's Final Boss. They showed up in a crossover between Marvel and the Ultraverse, where the vampiric Rune stole the Gems- a seventh gem, known as the Ego Gem, was discovered, but this was stupid and has since been ignored. This story was so poorly-received it was the last the Gems were seen until 2003- Galactus gathers them together but accidentally unleashes the Hunger on the universe- he and Thanos fight him back and re-disperse the Gems. 2007's The Illuminati finally places them center-stage again, as it turns out that the secret cabal of Earth heroes had gathered the Gems to wish them out of existence, but discovered they were necessary to "cosmic balance"- instead they divvy up and hide the Gems.

-This leads to a story where The Hood steals some, and the Illuminati defeat him with others- however, the Incursions of Infinity happen, and the Gems are destroyed when they're used to try and force things back. They're used once during Secret Wars, as different realities' Gems are combined together to hold off God Emperor Doom for a time, and when continuity restarts, they are now called "The Infinity Stones"- the MCU had called them that (I wonder if it's because "Gem" had jewelry/feminine connotations and they were embarrassed? I really don't get it- it's so arbitrary). Their colors have also shifted to match the movie versions (which seemingly were altered to fit past stories or just because one looked cool with a movie's color scheme). These Stones briefly fall into the hands of a handful of random scattered people, but Adam Warlock manages to awaken sentience in each of them and send them across the cosmos.

The Power of the Gems:
-The Gems were forged by the death of an ultimately-powerful being (probably the same one that was sort of Eternity in the universe before our own- the same that Galactus came from), and many beings simply wore them as ornamentation without fully-grasping their powers. They have changed size and shape a few times (not just in 2017)- the Soul Gem is usually green, but was red when held by The Gardener, for example. The Elders of the Universe wore them (The Runner wielded the Space Gem to make him "The speediest damn thing in the universe!", The Champion increased his Power, and The Gardener used Time to make his plants grow to a certain point) for a while, until Thanos stole them one-by-one, allowing him to merge the Gems into one Gauntlet, giving him nigh-omnipotence. The individual Gems can be wielded by sentient beings as separate sets of Powers, but are often not given their full-effect by others.

ORANGE: THE TIME GEM:
The Time Gem (Flaws: Easily Removable) [155]
Enhanced Advantages 5: Improved Initiative 5 (5)
Immunity 3 (Time Effects, Aging) (3)
"Time Travel" Movement 3 (Time Travel 3) (6)

"Speed Up Time" Quickness 12 (Extras: Affects Others, Area- 120ft. Burst +3, Selective) Linked to Speed 12 (Extras: Affects Others, Area- 120ft. Burst +3, Selective) Linked to Enhanced Advantages 5 (Extras: Affects Others, Area- 120ft. Burst +3, Selective) Linked to Enhanced Dodge & Parry 5 (Extras: Affects Others, Area- 120ft. Burst +3, Selective) (234) -- (244)
  • AE: "Speed Self Up" Quickness 20 Linked to Speed 20 (2,000,000 mph) (40)
  • AE: "Time Portal" Movement 3 (Time Travel 3) (Feats: Increased Mass 10) (Extras: Portal +2) (22)
  • AE: "Send Through The Ages" Movement 3 (Time Travel 3) (Feats: Increased Mass 10) (Extras: Attack 18, Perception Range +2 on 18 ranks) (70)
  • AE: "Age People & Objects" Weaken Toughness 22 (Extras: Affects Objects, Progressive +2, Ranged) (110)
  • AE: "Rapid Attack" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Multiattack 15, Affects Others 12, Area- 250ft. Burst +4 on 12 Ranks, Selective 12) (Flaws: Tiring) (87)
  • AE: "Age & De-Age Others" Affliction 20 (Fort; Impaired/Disabled/Transformed in Age) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Continuous +3) (120)
  • AE: "Slow Enemies" Affliction 18 (Strength/Speed Rank; Dazed, Fatigued & Hindered/Stunned, Immobile & Defenseless/Incapacitated) (Extras: Extra Condition +2, Area- 250ft. Burst +4, Selective) (Flaws: Instant Recovery) (126)
  • AE: "Slow Enemy" Affliction 18 (Strength/Speed Rank; Dazed, Fatigued & Hindered/Stunned, Immobile & Defenseless/Incapacitated) (Extras: Extra Condition +2, Perception Range +2, Selective) (Flaws: Instant Recovery) (90)
  • AE: "Return the Dead to Life" Healing 20 (Extras: Perception Range +2, Resurrection, Restorative, Energizing, Area- 60ft. +2, Selective) (200)
-- (257 points)

PURPLE: THE SPACE GEM:
The Space Gem (Flaws: Easily Removable) [173]
Enhanced Advantages 5: Improved Initiative 5 (5)
Movement 1 (Environmental Adaptation- Space) (2)
Immunity 3 (Time Effects, Aging) (3)
Movement 6 (Space Travel 3, Dimensional Travel 3) (6)

Flight 20 (2,000,000 mph) (40) -- (41)
  • AE: Speed 20 (2,000,000 mph) (20)
Teleport 20 (Feats: Change Direction & Velocity) (Extras: Extended, Easy, Accurate) Linked to Teleport 20 (Feats: Increased Mass 7- 3 tons) (Extras: Attack +0, Ranged 20, Easy, Extended, Accurate) (229) -- (231)
AE: Teleport 20 (Extras: Extended, Easy, Accurate, Portal +2, Increased Portal Size +4) (180)
AE: Movement 6 (Space Travel 3, Dimensional Travel 3) (Extras: Attack, Portal +2) (30)
  • AE: "Rapid Attack" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Multiattack 15, Affects Others 12, Area- 250ft. Burst +4 on 12 Ranks, Selective 12) (87)
  • AE: Remote Sensing 23 (Visual, Hearing) (32,000 miles) (Feats: Dimensional, Subtle) (71)
-- (288 points)

BLUE: THE MIND GEM:
The Mind Gem (Flaws: Easily Removable) [93]
"Telepathy" Mind-Reading 18 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle) (Extras: Effortless, Cumulative, Sensory Link) Linked to Communication (Mental) 5 (Extras: Area, Selective) (122) -- (138)
  • Dynamic AE: Mind Control 18 (Feats: Dynamic) (73)
  • Dynamic AE: "Wide Area Control" Mind Control 12 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- 500ft. Burst +5, Selective) (Flaws: Touch Range -2) (73)
  • Dynamic AE: "Telelocation" Senses 6 (Detect Minds- Ranged 5) (Feats: Dynamic) (7)
  • Dynamic AE: "Mental Stun" Affliction 14 (Will; Dazed/Stunned/Incapacitated) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Cumulative) (57)
  • Dynamic AE: "Astral Form" Remote Sensing 15 (Visuals & Hearing) (Feats: Dynamic, Dimensional) (Flaws: Physical Body is Defenseless) (32)
  • Dynamic AE: "Focused Mental Blast" Damage 18 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Will Save) (73)
  • Dynamic AE: "Mental Illusions" Illusion (All Senses) 14 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Selective) (Flaws: Resisted by Will) (70)
  • AE: "Area Mental Blast" Damage 12 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2, Selective, Will Save) (62)
  • AE: "Brainwashing" Affliction 18 (Will; Dazed/Compelled/Transformed Mentally) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Cumulative) (72)
Quickness 10 (Flaws: Mental Tasks Only) (5)
Immunity 20 (Mental Effects) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) (10)
-- (153 points)

YELLOW: THE REALITY GEM:
The Reality Gem (Flaws: Easily Removable) [173]
"Rearrange Molecules" Transform 18 (Anything to Anything) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Continuous) (144)
Variable (Any Cosmic) 20 (140) -- (143)
  • AE: "Fulfill Wishes" Create 18 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Continuous) (55)
  • AE: "Warp Perception" Affliction 18 (Fort; Dazed & Vulnerable/Stunned & Defenseless/Incapacitated) (Extras: Extra Condition, Area- 120ft. Burst +3, Selective) (108)
  • AE: "Warp Others" Affliction 18 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned/Transformed) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Cumulative, Sustained +2) (108)
-- (287 points)

RED: THE POWER GEM:
The Power Gem (Flaws: Easily Removable) [114]
Enhanced Strength 20 (40)
Enhanced Stamina 20 (40)
Impervious Toughness 25 (25)
Variable (Any Cosmic) 12 (84) -- (85)
  • AE: "Boost Others' Powers" Variable (Others' Powers) 10 (Extras: Affects Others Only +0, Ranged) (80)
-- (190 points)

GREEN: THE SOUL GEM:
The Soul Gem (Flaws: Easily Removable) [139]
"Gateway to Pocket Universe" Movement 1 (Soul Dimension) (Extras: Attack 14, Perception Range +2) Linked to Affliction 17 (Will; Dazed/Stunned/Transformed to Soulless Husk) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Continuous +3) (136)
"Control Souls" Affliction 17 (Will; Dazed/Compelled/Transformed Personality) (Extras: Progressive +2, Perception Range +2) (85) -- (89)
  • AE: "Soul Blast" Blast 17 (Extras: Will Save) (51)
  • AE: Force Blast 16 (32)
  • AE: "Soul Reading" Mind-Reading 17 (Flaws: Limited to Natures of the Soul) (17)
  • AE: Communication (Mental/Soul) 3 (Extras: Area, Selective) (18)
Comprehend (Languages) 3 (6)
-- (231 points)

-The Six Infinity Gems cost between 80 & 112 points, for good reason. Possessing JUST ONE allowed most of the Elders of the Universe to possess near-unstoppable powers once they'd unlocked the secrets to them, and gathering just a couple made Thanos' life a LOT easier. For obvious reasons, avoid using these at all in your game, as they're TOTAL game-breakers, unless it's as a Plot Device. The Power Gem is toughest to really figure out, as it ostensibly makes someone a Powerhouse of elite capabilities, plus boosting regular powers, but it'd probably get cheaper if a more powerful guy (like The Champion) gained it.

-The individual Gems are freakishly powerful in their own right, making a fully-loaded character a PL 18 being in most cases. Most characters could never unleash the full power, though- the Power Gem was required for greater focus. But these are SCARY weapons- Reality can warp perceptions and beings, Power boosts you to ridiculous levels, Time & Space allow for Travel Attacks and various Super-Speed Feats, The Mind Gem renders you like Professor X times ten, as does the Soul Gem.

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THE INFINITY STONES: The six Stones now match the colors of the films. They are now Yellow (Mind), Purple (Power), Red (Reality), Orange (Soul), Blue (Space) & Green (Time).
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Infinity Gauntlet

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE INFINITY GAUNTLET (PL 30):
The Infinity Gauntlet (Flaws: Easily Removable) (Feats: Unbreakable) [2,509]

"Power Gem"
Enhanced Strength 30 (60)
Enhanced Stamina 30 (60)
Impervious Toughness 51 (51)
Features 1: Treats all Unbreakable Objects as Breakable (1)

"Space Gem"
"Speed Self Up" Quickness 20 Linked to Flight 20 (2,000,000 mph) (60) -- (61)
AE: Quickness 20 Linked to Speed 20 (2,000,000 mph) (40)
Enhanced Advantages 10: Improved Initiative 10 (10)
"All-Seeing" Remote Sensing 31 (Visual, Hearing) (8,192,000,000 miles) (Feats: Dynamic, Dimensional, Subtle) (Extras: Simultaneous) (127)
Movement 1 (Environmental Adaptation- Space) (2)

"Mind Gem"
Mind-Reading 30 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle 2) (Extras: Sensory Link, Effortless) (123)
Communication (Mental) 5 (Feats: Dynamic, Subtle, Dimensional) (Extras: Area, Selective) (33)
Immunity 20 (Mental Effects) (20)

"Reality Gem"
"Restructure Reality" Transform 50 (Anything to Anything) (Feats: Increased Mass 30- Planets) (Extras: Continuous) (330)

"Time Gem"
Immunity 3 (Time Effects, Aging) (3)

"Soul Gem"
"Control Souls" Affliction 30 (Will; Dazed/Compelled/Transformed Personality) (Extras: Continuous +3, Perception Range +2) (180)

"Power Gem"
"Titanic Damage I" Damage 25 (Extras: Area- Burst +100, Selective, Penetrating 15) (2,565) -- (2,620)
  • AE: "Titanic Damage II" Damage 25 (Extras: Area- Line +100, Selective, Penetrating 15) (2,565)
  • AE: "Titanic Damage III" Damage 25 (Extras: Area- Cone +100, Selective, Penetrating 15) (2,565)
  • Dynamic AE: "Cosmic Stream" Damage 30 (Feats: Dynamic, Variable 2- Any Energy) (Extras: Area- Line +50, Selective) (1,563)
  • Dynamic AE: "Cosmic Burst" Damage 30 (Feats: Dynamic, Variable 2- Any Energy) (Extras: Area- 2,000ft. Burst +50, Selective) (1,563)
  • Dynamic AE: "Cosmic Wave" Damage 30 (Feats: Dynamic, Variable 2- Any Energy) (Extras: Area- 4,000ft. Cone +50, Selective) (1,563)
  • Dynamic AE: "Cosmic Blast" Blast 50 (Feats: Dynamic, Variable 2- Any Energy, Extended Range 20, Indirect 4, Penetrating 20) (147)
  • Dynamic AE: "All-Reaching Blast" Blast 26 (Feats: Dynamic, Variable 2- Any Energy, Indirect, Penetrating 14) (Extras: Perception Range) (81)
  • Dynamic AE: Force Field +0 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Affects Others 20, Impervious 23) (43)
"Mind Gem"
  • Dynamic AE: Concealment 10 (All Senses) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Affects Others, Ranged) (41)
  • Dynamic AE: "Remove Powers" Affliction 17 (Fort; Impaired/Disabled/Transformed to Powerless) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Perception Range +2) (52)
  • Dynamic AE: Mind Control 30 (Feats: Dynamic) (121)
  • Dynamic AE: "Wide Area Control" Mind Control 30 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Area- +50 Burst, Selective) (Flaws: Touch Range -2) (1,500)
  • Dynamic AE: "Telelocation" Senses 41 (Detect Minds- Ranged 40) (Feats: Dynamic) (42)
  • Dynamic AE: "Mental Stun" Affliction 30 (Will; Dazed/Stunned/Incapacitated) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Cumulative) (121)
  • Dynamic AE: "Focused Mental Blast" Damage 30 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Will Save) (121)
  • Dynamic AE: "Mental Illusions" Illusion (All Senses) 30 (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Selective) (70)
  • AE: "Area Mental Blast" Damage 30 (Extras: Area- +50 Burst, Selective, Will Save) (1,590)
  • AE: "Brainwashing" Affliction 30 (Will; Dazed/Compelled/Transformed Thoughts & Memories) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Progressive +2) (150)
"Space Gem"
  • AE: Movement 6 (Space Travel 3, Dimensional Travel 3) (Extras: Portal +2, Portal Area +20) (144)
  • AE: Teleport 20 (Feats: Increased Mass 10) (Extras: Extended, Accurate, Easy) (110)
  • AE: Movement 9 (Dimensional Travel 3, Time Travel 3, Space Travel 3) (Feats: Increased Mass 5) (Extras: Attack 30, Area- 500ft. Burst +5 on 30 Ranks) (203)
  • AE: "Move The Stars Themselves" Move Object 40 (262,144,000,000 tons) (Extras: Perception Range) (120)
  • AE: "Teleport Others" Teleport 20 (Feats: Increased Mass 5) (Extras: Attack, Ranged) (85)
  • AE: "Drain Energy" Affliction 30 (Will; Impaired/Disabled/Transformed to Powerless) (Extras: Perception Ranged +2) (Flaws: Limited to Energy Powers) (60)
  • AE: "Sense Energy" Senses 22 (Detect Energy- Ranged 17- 1,600 trillion miles, Acute & Analytical, Tracking) (22)
  • AE: "Sense Life" Senses 22 (Detect Life- Ranged 17- 1,600 trillion miles, Tracking) (22)
  • AE: "Snaps Fingers- Half the Universe Dies" Weaken Stamina 22 (Extras: Area- Burst +100, Selective) (2,244)
"Time Gem"
  • AE: "Speed Up Time" Quickness 12 (Extras: Affects Others, Area- 120ft. Burst +3, Selective) Linked to Speed 12 (Extras: Affects Others, Area- 120ft. Burst +3, Selective) Linked to Enhanced Advantages 5 (Extras: Affects Others, Area- 120ft. Burst +3, Selective) Linked to Enhanced Dodge & Parry 5 (Extras: Affects Others, Area- 120ft. Burst +3, Selective) (234)
  • AE: "Time Travel" Movement 3 (Time Travel 3) (6)
  • AE: "Time Portal" Movement 3 (Time Travel 3) (Feats: Increased Mass 10) (Extras: Portal +2) (22)
  • AE: "Send Through The Ages" Movement 3 (Time Travel 3) (Feats: Increased Mass 10) (Extras: Attack 30, Perception Range +2 on 30 ranks) (106)
  • AE: "Age People & Objects" Weaken Toughness 30 (Extras: Affects Objects, Progressive +2, Ranged) (150)
  • AE: "Rapid Attack" Strength-Damage +0 (Extras: Multiattack 30, Affects Others 30, Area- 250ft. Burst +4 on 30 Ranks, Selective 30) (210)
  • AE: "Age & De-Age Others" Affliction 30 (Fort; Impaired/Disabled/Transformed in Age) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Continuous +3) (180)
  • AE: "Slow Enemies" Affliction 30 (Strength/Speed Rank; Dazed, Fatigued & Hindered/Stunned, Immobile & Defenseless/Incapacitated) (Extras: Extra Condition +2, Area- 250ft. Burst +4, Selective) (240)
  • AE: "Slow Enemy" Affliction 30 (Strength/Speed Rank; Dazed, Fatigued & Hindered/Stunned, Immobile & Defenseless/Incapacitated) (Extras: Extra Condition +2, Perception Range +2, Selective) (180)
  • AE: "Return the Dead to Life" Healing 20 (Extras: Perception Range +2, Resurrection, Restorative, Energizing, Area- 60ft. +2, Selective) (200)
    "Reality Gem"
  • AE: "Fulfill Wishes" Create 50 (Feats: Innate, Increased Mass 20) (Extras: Continuous, Movable) (221)
  • AE: "Warp Perception" Affliction 30 (Fort; Dazed & Vulnerable/Stunned & Defenseless/Incapacitated) (Extras: Extra Condition, Area- Burst +50, Selective) (1,590)
  • AE: "Warp Others" Affliction 30 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned/Transformed) (Extras: Perception Range +2, Cumulative, Sustained +2) (180)
  • AE: "Capable of Nearly Any Effect" Variable (Cosmic) 60 (Extras: Free Action +2) (540)
"Summon Terraxia Or Other Super-Floozies" Summon 20 (Extras: Heroic +2, Controlled, Multiple Minions +18) (Extras: Variable +2) (500)
-- (4,181 points)

-The only real weakness a fully-loaded Gauntlet has is that it's still Removable- Thanos was undone when he took Eternity's place in the Cosmic Scale, leaving his mortal body lying comatose and letting Nebula snatch the Gauntlet away. At PL 30, the Gauntlet's wearer could handily defeat most of the Cosmic Beings (Thanos took a while to do it, but Nebula was even able to beat them with relative ease- it's established that this is an inevitable conclusion to such a battle), and answers only to The Living Tribunal. Warlock suggested he was able to fight it, but the Tribunal got him to admit that such a battle would destroy the entire cosmos, and thus Warlock backed down and agreed to separate the Gems.

-The sheer variety of powers here is pretty staggering, and goes into thousands of points- Thanos at one point killed half the population of the known universe (making sure that his father and Reed Richards were among those deceased) in one massive Area Effect (+100 oughta cover it- a Google check reveals this would extend beyond known space), beat all the Cosmic Beings, made himself all-powerful, willingly reduced himself to a paltry shadow of his true might to kill all Earth's heroes (and still managed to easily do it to almost everybody), and more. He can give himself any power he doesn't already possess here (Variable 60 allows for 300 points' worth of stuff), Transform Anything to Anything, Brainwash others or change their very Souls, Summon super-powered beings (because WHY NOT just throw a 500-point power on there for something he only did once, and with one character?), etc. Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet (hell, The Gamecock with the Infinity GauntletOH MY GOD SOMEONE WRITE THAT STORY) would pretty much beat anybody else, ever.
Horsenhero
Posts: 941
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:01 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Starhawk! Adam Warlock! Her! Pip! Gamora!)

Post by Horsenhero »

Jabroniville wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:29 pm
greycrusader wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 3:18 am Well, it could be worse-at least Gamora has a few decent showings, unlike DC's "most dangerous martial artist in the world" Lady Shiva, the villain with those big wins over major threats The Question and Richard Dragon, Kung-Fu Fighter, LOL. Seriously though, Gamora has managed some staying power for a character originally created as a minor plot device (she was trained by Thanos to avoid the Magus' cosmic senses and assassinate the future demigod, but Magus shrugged off her attack and knocked her unconscious with one backhand). Her "bad girl" look helped, of course, as she is a sci-fi version of Frank Frazetta poster babe. And she does fit in much better among the grittier, lower-powered GotG than hanging out with the likes of Adam Warlock or Moondragon.
Yeah it's kinda funny how these things were just "accepted" but then the girl wasn't allowed a lot of legit wins. Shiva in particular suffered from "We say she's the best, so it means more when other characters defeat her", whereas Gamora didn't even have the credibility built up for THAT.
The Enclave and Paragon/Her/Kismet/Ayesha-MAN! That's a lot of convoluted history for characters who ended up meaning just about nothing in Marvel history.

All my best.
It's a combination of irritating and amusing to find characters like that. Like... someone who has VOLUMES of stories written about them, but always in side-books that don't matter, because one writer or another has an interest in them or other writers find a "free" character they can do whatever they want with. So I can create a big bio for a character instead of a "So this is a person who exists" stuff... yet find myself with a half hour of work to do trying to piece all this garbage together, lol.

And none of it even matters because the characters are so unpopular XD!
As usual, I'm super-late to the party because I only show up every couple of months...don't judge me! I'd say Gamorra's biggest problem is Jim Starlin can't write female characters. He's never been able to write female characters. From his work with Mar-Vell to Adam Warlock to his creator owned book, Dreadstar, his female characters are weak. The only reason Moondragon has as many good showings as she does is other writers took an interest in the character. Hell, most of the male supporting characters in Starlin's books are a little weak with the exception of Syzygy Darklocke and of course, Thanos (Starlin's pet character). Starlin is decent at writing his primary protagonist and antagonist and everything beyond them is just window dressing. This isn't to say his concepts aren't good, because they are. The execution of those concepts tends to lean to the weak side though.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Starhawk! Adam Warlock! Her! Pip! Gamora!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Horsenhero wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 3:29 am
As usual, I'm super-late to the party because I only show up every couple of months...don't judge me! I'd say Gamorra's biggest problem is Jim Starlin can't write female characters. He's never been able to write female characters. From his work with Mar-Vell to Adam Warlock to his creator owned book, Dreadstar, his female characters are weak. The only reason Moondragon has as many good showings as she does is other writers took an interest in the character. Hell, most of the male supporting characters in Starlin's books are a little weak with the exception of Syzygy Darklocke and of course, Thanos (Starlin's pet character). Starlin is decent at writing his primary protagonist and antagonist and everything beyond them is just window dressing. This isn't to say his concepts aren't good, because they are. The execution of those concepts tends to lean to the weak side though.
Wow, a wild Horsenhero appearance! Nice to see you back, lol.

And I've not read too much of Starlin's stuff beyond The Death of Captain Marvel and his '90s work (I never got Dreadstar), but yeah, that reads as correct. I recall how little Mar-Vell's beloved Elysius (or whatever her name was) appears in his death story. It really comes off more like Starlin wants a beautiful woman to drape herself across the hero's thigh so we're all clear that his hero is awesome, manly and to be admired. I'm a little surprised he's married (and his wife co-wrote novels with him, apparently)!
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Infinity Gems (Forgotten/Joke Gems)

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE STUPID, UN-USED GEMS:
-So an incompetent hack tried to glomp onto the Infinity Gauntlet concept and go all "Everything You Knew is WRONG! There is ANOTHER Gem!", but this happened in a poorly-received story, so people just rolled their eyes and ignored it. One is a one-off from an out-of-continuity Event Story and the other is a gag from Deadpool, so technically it's just one stupid one. The movies dropped them and so has modern continuity.

WHITE: THE EGO GEM:
-This Gem just contains the sentience of "Nemesis", a Cosmic Being who is apparently the basis of the Gems' power. Though this was just for an Ultraverse crossover, and it hasn't appeared since. I doubt it's even in continuity anymore.

YELLOW: THE DEATH GEM:
-In the 2014 Infinity Gauntlet Limited Series, as part of the Secret Wars event, Anwen Bakian (... who?) uses the Reality Stone to create a "Death Stone" and gives it to Thanos. It corrupts him with black matter and turns him to dust. I think that makes this more of a weapon than anything.

BLACK: THE CONTINUITY GEM:
Features 1: May Break the Fourth Wall [1]

-In Deadpool, Wade Wilson gets his hands on the "Continuity Stone", which gives people the power to talk to the comic book writers themselves.

OTHER CONTINUITIES' GEMS:
-A pair of "Joke Gems" exist from other materials.

PINK: THE RHYTHM GEM:
The Rhythm Gem (Flaws: Easily Removable) [6]
Enhanced Skills 18: Expertise (Dancing) 18 (+xx) (9 points)
-This Gem only existed in The Marvel Super-Hero Squad Show show with its Infinity Gauntlet storyline, though it was apparently a ruse created by Loki anyways. I don't think it really did anything, but enhanced Dancing is awesome. This one gets a pass, particuarly since it's not in continuity.

RED: THE BUILD GEM:
The Build Gem (Flaws: Easily Removable) [94]
Create 20 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Movable, Permanent, Impervious) (51)
"Creates Any Weapon" Variable 15 (Weapon Effects) (105)
-From Lego Marvel Super-Heroes- Guardians of the Galaxy- The Thanos Threat animated film. This Seventh Stone allows the user to Build virtually anything. Thanos wants it to create a powerful weapon.
Arcae
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Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:29 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Warlock! Gamora! Thanos! The Infinity Gauntlet!)

Post by Arcae »

From the looks of it, that ego gem got destroyed at the end of the story anyway. (Which led to the other gems becoming humanoid, but that got quickly ignored).
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Goldar
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Warlock! Gamora! Thanos! The Infinity Gauntlet!)

Post by Goldar »

Almost sounds like Marvel was trying to make a "War of the Gems".
Skavenger
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:56 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA

Re: Jab’s Builds (Warlock! Gamora! Thanos! The Infinity Gauntlet!)

Post by Skavenger »

Goldar wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:14 pm Almost sounds like Marvel was trying to make a "War of the Gems".
Shhhhhhh, they might be listening!
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Warlock! Gamora! Thanos! The Infinity Gauntlet!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Arcae wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 9:18 am From the looks of it, that ego gem got destroyed at the end of the story anyway. (Which led to the other gems becoming humanoid, but that got quickly ignored).
That’s weird. Humanoid gems? Who wrote that story, anyhow?
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Warlock! Gamora! Thanos! The Infinity Gauntlet!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Man, my posting order ended up way different than I was planning, lol. The problem is most space guys switch teams, cross over, and more.
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