Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Jabroniville
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Harold Allnut

Post by Jabroniville »

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HAROLD ALLNUT
Created By:
Marv Wolfman & Alan Grant
First Appearance: The Question #33 (Dec. 1989)
Role: The Igor
Group Affiliations: None
PL 4 (59)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 4 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 7 AWARENESS -1 PRESENCE -2

Skills:
Intimidation 5 (+3)
Perception 4 (+3)
Stealth 2 (+4)
Technology 7 (+14)

Advantages:
Inventor, Ranged Attack 3

Offense:
Unarmed +4 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +4 (DC 14), Toughness +4, Fortitude +5, Will +4

Complications:
Disabled (Mute)
Prejudice (Monster)- Harold is so misshapen that his own mother couldn't stand to look at him, and finally exiled him.

Total: Abilities: 42 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 4 (59)

-Batman had an IGOR? When the hell? I've never heard of this guy before this set! And he started out as a Question character, but a late one. So it turns out he was a mute hunchback who was nonetheless a technical genius. Expelled from his home by his own mother (who couldn't stand his deformities), he shows up in Hub City, but soon goes back to Gotham, where the Penguin cajoles him into building high-tech stuff for him. Overhearing Penguin's plan to kill him instead of splitting the money from selling the gear at an auction for terrorists, Harold was heartbroken, and later saved Batman. Batman decided to give Harold a home, keeping him in the Batcave as Batman's own personal mechanic. He played with Ace the Bat-Hound and was served by Alfred, but we soon hit the "AzBats" era, as Jean-Paul Valley takes over Batman's role and quickly boots Harold & Ace out of the Batcave. They manage to sneak into a hidden section of the cave and hide out there for a while, later helping Bruce retake the Mantle of the Bat. He became a true "Technical Aide" at this point, aaaaaaaaaaand the next writers dropped him.

-Seriously, bios even indicate that Harold "vanished from Batman's life" some time after No Man's Land, as he was left to wander through Gotham City post-earthquake, attempting to "fix things" after his Batcave home was destroyed. Hilariously, the writers were just like "Nah, screw this guy" and he disappeared for TEN YEARS, popping up inexplicably as a normal-looking, vocal man thanks to the surgical skills of Hush. Out of gratitude for the villain's reparing of his body, Harold reluctantly took up his mission against Batman. But when Harold, guilt-ridden, attempted to warn Batman of the danger, Hush shot and killed him. Batman buried Harold on the hilltop overlooking Wayne Manor, where his house once stood. Later, after a reboot or two, Harold returns and his role in the "Hush" scheme is "mitigated" somehow, and actually continues working on Batman's gear.

-This character is kind of delightfully weird, but such an odd fit I can imagine why later writers just dumped him completely and NO adaptations want to use him. I mean, a mute hunchback working in the Batcave? That is such a weird part of the lore, and he doesn't really fit in with anything else. Later adaptations would feature Lucius Fox and others doing the "Inventing stuff for Batman" approach to justify his gear.

-Harold is no fighter, but a highly competent technical guy who can invent powerful weapons and vehicles.
Skavenger
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Location: Seattle, Washington, USA

Re: Jab’s Builds (Man-Bat! Capt. Stingaree! Calendar Man! The Joker!)

Post by Skavenger »

Ooooooooooooooookay. This is what I've been waiting for. This is the big one. Prepare for a lengthy rant.

A key part of Batman, possibly so key that it ranks right up there with "dead parents" and "bats flying through windows" is his gadgets. It's even one of the most quotable lines from the 1989 movie, "Where does he get those wonderful toys?" The first sign we get of Batman in the animated series is a spotlight followed by a rocket car, indicating that he needs to be called to fight crime, and that he can't always get there under his own power, unlike Superman. He also throws his batarangs to disarm the criminals, and he dodges their blows, showing his use of gadgetry and the fact he isn't invulnerable. It's possibly the perfect introduction to a character without words. I mean, even in the Adam West Batman show, the opening credits end on the Batmobile getting closer and closer, so the gear is clearly a primary part of the character concept. There hasn't been a single version of Batman that hasn't, in some form or another, included a utility belt, and considering fans get so rabid over a yellow oval, I can only imagine what would happen if they got rid of THAT key piece of his costume.

As for where they all come from...I blame the fact that comics are stories designed to never end, meaning eventually you're going to need to explain everything regardless of whether anybody ever asked a question about it. A giant penny or dinosaur in a cave, I can understand why you might want to know the story behind those, but once you start exploring "where does Batman get batrangs" you may as well ask "where did Jim Gordon get that specific pair of glasses?" (answer: Lenscrafters) or how the punching bag Bruce uses in the Batcave was once owned by a boxer he trained under, which I would only care about if said boxer's name was Ted Grant or (even better) "Battlin Jack Murdock."

So, I've mentioned before that there are four real ways for Batman to have all his fancy toys:

1) He builds it all himself. This works fine if you're playing up Batman as being a gadgeteer, sharpening metal bats and tinkering with grappling hooks and smoke bombs. The only problem with this is when you start to introduce things like planes, cars, and submarines, because it's really hard to picture Bruce and his retirement age butler hauling in submarine parts, setting up elaborate rigging systems to lift planes into the air, and hanging out around the Batmobile tinkering with the engine like they're doing a musical number in Grease 2.

2) He gets all the tech from WayneTech, which is fine as long as Lucius Fox is in on it and can help explain why experimental engines, bat-themed hang gliders, strangely shaped boomerangs, and advanced computer systems can all vanish into thin air without the stockholders or the board of directors getting upset. It's probably the best way to have this happen, because it turns Bruce Wayne's wealth into a plot point, and not something that needs to just be handwaved away or explored too deeply (despite the number of times DC thought 'hey, what if we made Bruce Wayne poor?' The guy's been broke almost as many times as Tony Stark.) And it would be the best, if it wasn't for...

3) The Animated Series episode The Mechanic might be one of my all-time favorites, simply because it shows the effect that Batman actually has on Gotham. A mechanic whose life was saved by Batman helps take on the cause of fighting crime by doing repairs and upgrades to Batman's car. It shows that Gotham isn't constantly sinking into darkness, that Bruce is having an actual positive effect on the people in town, and it sets up the idea that he has a network of "helpers" all over town who he's helped since his beginning days, and in turn help him become a better crime fighter. None of them care who's under the mask, because they've experienced first hand what he does to help the city. A network of people carving metal bats, injecting chemicals into tiny balls, stitching together capes and cowls, all to help Batman make Gotham into a city free from crime. It is, by far, the best way to show that Batman isn't fighting a losing battle.

And by far, the absolute worst and weirdest means is 4) Have a mute hunchback live in the cave and fix everything. Seriously, "magic shoe-making elves who branched out into other manufacturing jobs" would be less strange.

I read a lot of the books with Harold in them, and by "in them" I mean he would occasionally show up in the background working on something without anybody so much as going "Thanks, Harold" or "Oh hey, there's Harold, our mute handyman who lives in the cave." But the few times they DID refer to him, well...

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Geezus. That's about as bad as whoever wrote the fifth take of the script of Suicide Squad.

Now, I'm all for Batman having sidekicks, but even the most forgiving Bat-fan has to admit that in any other universe a rich guy taking in teenage boys and dressing them up in costumes to help him fight crime is really sketchy at best. But we allow it, because of a suspension of disbelief, and it's only really gone poorly once or twice, which is a pretty good batting average. But once you say "oh, yeah, Bruce Wayne took in a mute hunchback and had him live in the cave underneath his gigantic mansion and then forgot about him" it just really doesn't reflect well on the guy. Especially when you take into account that Harold "hardly ever" left the cave, probably wasn't being paid, and was frequently left alone most of the time (that is, when he wasn't watching soap operas with Ace and Alfred).

So fine, he disappears after some years (leaving the cave for the first time during No Man's Land after the earthquake, seeing the city in the distance, and thinking his services were needed there more than in Batman's basement), nobody thinks to say "oh, Harold moved into a garage in Gotham, he's happy now" or just have him reappear to say "I have to go now. My planet needs me." and then have the last panel read "Harold died on the way back to his home planet" in crayon. Instead, ten years later in one of the worst Batman stories of all time (you know the one) they do something that DC should sincerely apologize for.

I've ranted before that DC has an issue with portraying people with disabilities well in comics. Marvel isn't much better, but Harold will always be the poster child for disrespect to an entire community of people for me. People with disabilities either tend to get work-arounds that make them superpowered (Cyborg, Iron Man), or get a superpower that renders the disability moot (Daredevil, Charles Xavier's flying chair, Barbara Gordon's spinal implant). Characters like Oracle (pre-implant), Hawkeye, Echo, Black Widow, and others who incorporate their disability into their everyday life and have it be a part of their superpowered journey are really rare, and are really valued by people I know with disabilities who enjoy comics.

Where was I? Oh, right, Harold. So, after ten years of Harold not making a single appearance in a comic book, DC thought the best idea was to reintroduce him, reveal that he sold out Batman to be "fixed," had all of his disabilities stripped away from him so he could be "normal" to comic book fans, and then murdered. In a single page.

I mean, on the one hand, there's Karen Page selling Daredevil's secret identity for drugs. You could pitch that as a case of just how low she was in life that she couldn't think of anything but herself and her need to stop the pain she felt without whatever drug she was sold. But saying "oh, yeah, this guy is totally willing to sell out Batman to have his kyphosis cured and be given the ability to speak, have Batman say he FORGIVES him and UNDERSTANDS, because obviously it's a decision that anybody should consider if given the chance, and then murder him..." It just smacks of not caring at all about how people with disabilities are already treated by society at large and indicating that Batman was wrong to trust Harold in the first place because he could be so easily exploited.

Harold is the character that never needed to be created, wasn't treated with any real respect while he existed, and was killed for an awful storyline, essentially dumped on by his creators, the characters, and the guy who decided to kill him. And DC owes an apology to people who live every day with a disability without thinking "man, if only I was offered the chance to sell out a hero so I could get rid of this part of who I am."
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Man-Bat! Capt. Stingaree! Calendar Man! The Joker!)

Post by Jabroniville »

haha, yeah, I had no idea anyone, anywhere, could have strong feelings about Harold. But yes, he has no reason at all to exist, and then seemed to be discarded so easily I can only assume the creative team found out about Harold, hated the idea, and immediately decided to kill him off in a way that made him look bad.
Jabroniville
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Bag O'Bones

Post by Jabroniville »

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BAG O'BONES (Ned Creegan, aka The Cyclotronic Man, The One-Man Meltdown)
Created By:
Gardner Fox & Sheldon Moldoff
First Appearance: Batman #195 (Sept. 1967)
Role: Jobber Villain
Group Affiliations: None

-In a story gloriously titled The Spark-Spangled See-Through Man, the jewel thief Ned Creegan was accidentally subjected to a "purple light ray" when he broke into a scientist's lab. This made his skin transparent and his skeleton visible beneath it, and gave him radiation-based powers. The scientist, a bit of a rogue himself, gave Ned pills that would enable his transformation into his super-powered form, but warned him he'd lose a day of his life for every second he remained in that state. Deciding it would be worth it, Ned named himself... "Bag O'Bones" (oh, Silver Age) and tried one big heist, but was captured by Batman & Robin. Several years later, he reappeared working for The 100 as "The Cyclotronic Man", fighting both Black Lightning & Superman, but was again defeated. Many years later, he showed up in prison, where a crooked warden refused to give Ned the radiation treatments he needed- this caused his powers to mutate, and he became the "One-Man Meltdown", having a run-in with the Outsiders. When they discovered he was willing to reform, they helped him out, and he was cured- he then returned to prison to serve out his time. This was a 1983 story, and his last appearance.

-Ned's powers change frequently- he was a low-tier blaster when fighting Batman, but in Batman & The Outsiders, he's a highly-powerful Flying Blaster who can cause radiation sickness and other effects. In many fights, he can attract or repel people and objects to himself.
Jabroniville
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The Hooded Hangman

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE HOODED HANGMAN (Telman Davies)
Created By:
John Broome & Sheldon Moldoff
First Appearance: Detective Comics #355 (Sept. 1966)
Role: Jobber Villain
Group Affiliations: N/A
PL 8 (92)
STRENGTH
4 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 3 (+7)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+12)
Expertise (Reporter) 7 (+8)
Expertise (Pro Wrestler) 7 (+8)
Intimidation 5 (+8)
Perception 4 (+6)

Advantages:
Fast Grab, Improved Hold, Improved Grab, Prone Fighting

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +4, Fortitude +6, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Ego)- Telman Davies risks TWO successful careers just to prove he's better than Batman.

Total: Abilities: 64 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 11 (92)

-This is another one-off villain- a Gotham City newscaster who led a double life as the pro wrestler "The Hooded Hangman"- a medieval executioner gimmick. Despite being successful, he used a lot of illegal moves, making him controversial (ah, so this is one of those stories that acts as if pro wrestling were real- it was an open secret even in olden times it was not, but most fiction pretended it was). Jealous of Batman being a more famous masked man in Gotham, he decided to lure Bats into a fight at a crime scene. He actually managed to start WINNING against Batman (!!), but the clever hero used makeup and prosthetics to diguise himself as Telman! The Hangman thus unmasked Batman, and was so stunned by looking at his own face that Batman got the drop on him and unmasked him for all of Gotham to see. Davies then fled on a ship to South America. He reappears in Superman/Batman as a serial killer who takes twelve lives before Batman stops him. Serial killers are hilariously prolific in post-1990 DC comics, lol.

-This build is that of a strong grappler who can get an advantage on Batman himself, but like... 1960s Silver Age Batman, and only the one time. So New Villain Stink and such is at play here.
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Ares
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Re: The Hooded Hangman

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:16 pm -This is another one-off villain- a Gotham City newscaster who led a double life as the pro wrestler "The Hooded Hangman"- a medieval executioner gimmick.
I swear there was a TV show in the 80s that had a similar gimmick, only it was a teacher who was also secretly a masked pro-wrestler and he was also a single father.

*EDIT*

Yep, I was right. It was called Learning the Ropes.
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Skavenger
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Re: The Hooded Hangman

Post by Skavenger »

Ares wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:18 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 3:16 pm -This is another one-off villain- a Gotham City newscaster who led a double life as the pro wrestler "The Hooded Hangman"- a medieval executioner gimmick.
I swear there was a TV show in the 80s that had a similar gimmick, only it was a teacher who was also secretly a masked pro-wrestler and he was also a single father.

*EDIT*

Yep, I was right. It was called Learning the Ropes.
Pokemon Sun & Moon used the same gimmick for Professor Kukui running around as the Masked Royal.
Jabroniville
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The Ventriloquist (Arnold Wesker)

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE VENTRILOQUIST I (Arnold Wesker)
Created By:
Alan Grant, John Wagner & Norm Breyfogle
First Appearance: Detective Comics #538 (Feb. 1988)
Role: Split Personality Foe
Mental Problems: Dissociative Identity Disorder, Anger Issues (Scarface), Wimpiness & Non-Confrontationalism (Wesker)
PL 7 (66)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 0/6 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE -1/2

Skills:
Deception 4 (+3)
Expertise (Woodcarving) 8 (+10) -- Note: Half-Price
Expertise (Criminal) 4 (+7)
Perception 2 (+5)

Advantages:
None

Powers:
Morph 1 (Wesker's & Scareface's Voices) (Flaws: Limited to Voice -2) [3]
"Scarface- Ventriloquist's Dummy" (Flaws: Easily Removable) (Feats: Restricted 2- Only Insane Ventriloquists) [40]
Enhanced Fighting 6 (12)
Enhanced Presence 3 (6)
Enhanced Skills 10 -- (5)
Deception 2 (+7)
Expertise (Criminal) 1 (+8)
Insight 2 (+5)
Intimidation 5 (+7)
Enhanced Advantages 18: All-Out Attack, Daze (Intimidation), Improved Critical (Gun), Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Quick Draw, Ranged Attack 9, Seize Initiative, Startle, Taunt (18)
"Gat- Miniature Tommy Gun" Blast 5 (Extras: Multiattack) (15)
"Pop Him With the Dummy" Strength-Damage +1 (1)
Enhanced Dodge Bonus 5 (5)
-- (62 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +0 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
With Scarface +6 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Pop Him With the Dummy +6 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Gat +9 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +0 (+4 Scarface)

Defenses:
Dodge +0 (+5 Scarface, DC 15), Parry +0 (+6 Scarface, DC 16), Toughness +0, Fortitude +1, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)
Responsibility (Dissociative Identity Disorder)- Wesker generally only speaks through Scarface, and cannot express his own will normally. Scarface even "argues" with him, often disrespecting Welker in front of others. Failing an Insight test (like if, say, Batman were to spend a Hero Point to be able to throw his voice and imitate Wesker, for example) may result in one personality being set against the other.

Total: Abilities: 12 / Skills: 10--5 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 43 / Defenses: 2 (66)

The Ventriloquist- Minor Recurring Baddie:
-Scarface is one of the more inventive & peculiar of Batman's Rogues, and debuted pretty late in the game, actually being a Post-Crisis character. Naturally, he was best used in Batman: The Animated Series, but that was still mostly keeping to the standards of the comic book character- a meek, helpless man controlled by a lethal ventriloquist's dummy named "Scarface", who dresses and acts like a 1920s gangster! Yet... Wesker himself is the man who makes the dummy move and speak! Wesker thus has dissociative identity disorder, resulting from having grown up in a powerful organized crime family and seeing his mother assassinated by rivals. An alternate origin story is that he killed someone in a barfight owing to repressed rage, and while in prison, takes a dummy carved by his cellmate (from the gallows of the jail), murders the man, and escapes.

-In any case, the meek Wesker is a "slave" to the dominant Scarface, who verbally and physically abuses him- the cartoon did it better, in my opinion, by making Wesker such a good ventriloquist the two voices were unimaginably apart, with computers being unable to detect the voice came from the same man. In the comics, Wesker is actually kind of a poor ventriloquist, unable to enunciate his "B"s, and so Scarface often tries to kill "Gatman". The character was pretty minor, but a memorable appearance in the cartoon gave him a new lease on life.

-One story implies a mystical link for the dummy- some accidents are indirectly caused by it. His speech impediment is retained by a young boy who finds the dummy as well. When Scarface goes missing, Wesker uses "Socko", and the two puppets shoot each other in a stand-off- both of Wesker's hands are now damaged. His mind further snaps during No Man's Land, causing Wesker to invent a third personality- the "Quakemaster", who takes credit for the earthquake that rocked Gotham. However, the scientific information is false (deliberately planted by a real seismologist he'd kidnapped and demanded info from), and he's caught by Robin. Wesker is apparently killed once, with Scarface still able to speak afterwards, but he returns with no mention of this post-One Year Later. However, Wesker is finally killed for real very shortly afterwards, assassinated by the Tally Man, working for the Great White Shark- a new mob boss in town. Wesker is gunned down and Scarface's head is crushed. In the New 52, Wesker was never killed, and is a recurring minor bad guy.

-Overall, the Ventriloquist is a pretty minor deal... I mean, Batman has some true Main Event Villains to deal with, so "wimpy guy controlled by a dummy" seems pretty minor-league. He's honestly more of a Dick Tracy villain than anything, but this kinda works for the gimmick (especially given how much Batman takes from Tracy in that regard). I like the gimmick and how absurdly creepy it is, though. One of my favorite bits is in the cartoon, when Batman liked and pointed out WESKER as the "stoolie", leading to the freaking puppet trying to kill THE PUPPETEER. Just a perfect, nutty weirdo. I mean, even in a world of Jokers and Penguins, that stands out as weird. A more minor baddie with no technical skills, the Ventriloquist rarely stood as much of a chance as many other Bat-Rogues, relying on his wits & planning, but every episode with him was cool from an artistic standpoint. Plus it let the writers do horrific violence to the puppet without worry from Standards & Practices, tearing it apart in virtually every episode. A commentary states that this was actually their deliberate intent- you could show a human-looking creature being horribly destroyed by bullets, spinning fans, scythes, etc.! Same thing goes for the HARDAC Androids, and other non-humans. A great way for writers to be creepy as hell.

The Ventriloquist's Stats:
-Scarface is a little tricky to stat out, as 90% of the Ventriloquist's abilities & Stats are dependent on him holding the dummy. Essentially, the Scarface persona will be active as long as the puppet "lives", and as such, it can be "Disarmed" to keep away the gun, as well as removing the Ventriloquist's ability to attack or defend himself properly, as he's pretty hopeless. Many of the Skills are still around as long as Scarface is in charge (he can give orders while "in bed" while the Ventriloquist is still in the room, for example), which is a little trickier to stat out, but I figure putting it all in a Device is just fine, since it can be easily taken away, and destroying the puppet is something a toddler could do in a round or two.
brothersale
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Re: Merrymaker

Post by brothersale »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:50 pm I think this was a "New 52" thing, and I said I wasn't gonna do any builds of that, but I already did the work, so here you go, lol.
The trouble is with the New 52 several lines just continued on with no alterations for some time (green lantern & Batman from what i can recall), as such the line becomes murky when you look back at some lines compared to others.

Still some of the ideas that came from the 52 are not bad, the court of owls for one is not bad, as well is the idea for using the Jonah Hex series to add historical world building to Gotham and flesh out historical characters such as alan wayne, Amadeus Arkham & Theodore Cobblepot so that referances could be established in the "past" for use in the "present".

To be honesty i wish the comic industry would adopt a similar format. I mean how interesting would it be to have say a x-men team set in the past, one in the present, and one in future, all cross polinating plotlines for each other instead of stepping on each other's feet. Villians would show growth and long term plans and legacies, plotlines could be teased in the future setting before revealled in the past and it would end problimatic timeline and back to basic issues, as older characters could still be used in past setting while establishing new characters in future setting
brothersale
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Joker! Bag O'Bones! Harold! The Ventriloquist!)

Post by brothersale »

I think one of my favorite scenes with the Ventriloquist is actual from Justice League Season 2: Episode 11-12 A Better World, where in an alternate reality's Arkham the patients have all been lobotomized by superman, all but Wesker. Scarface on the other hand has the two burnmarks that signifies that it had taken place, it was just such a nice touch
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Re: Merrymaker

Post by Jabroniville »

brothersale wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:27 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:50 pm I think this was a "New 52" thing, and I said I wasn't gonna do any builds of that, but I already did the work, so here you go, lol.
The trouble is with the New 52 several lines just continued on with no alterations for some time (green lantern & Batman from what i can recall), as such the line becomes murky when you look back at some lines compared to others.

Still some of the ideas that came from the 52 are not bad, the court of owls for one is not bad, as well is the idea for using the Jonah Hex series to add historical world building to Gotham and flesh out historical characters such as alan wayne, Amadeus Arkham & Theodore Cobblepot so that referances could be established in the "past" for use in the "present".

To be honesty i wish the comic industry would adopt a similar format. I mean how interesting would it be to have say a x-men team set in the past, one in the present, and one in future, all cross polinating plotlines for each other instead of stepping on each other's feet. Villians would show growth and long term plans and legacies, plotlines could be teased in the future setting before revealled in the past and it would end problimatic timeline and back to basic issues, as older characters could still be used in past setting while establishing new characters in future setting
That would probably end up being a nightmare of continuity, though, with stuff contradicting other stuff in short order, haha. Maybe if only one writer was in charge of it, but even THEN...
I think one of my favorite scenes with the Ventriloquist is actual from Justice League Season 2: Episode 11-12 A Better World, where in an alternate reality's Arkham the patients have all been lobotomized by superman, all but Wesker. Scarface on the other hand has the two burnmarks that signifies that it had taken place, it was just such a nice touch
Oh yeah, that was clever.

Honestly, most of these villain's best moments were in the Animated Series and JLU, naturally XD.
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Ken
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Re: Bag O'Bones

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 7:32 am Image
I really like the costume Jim Aparo gave him.
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brothersale
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Re: Merrymaker

Post by brothersale »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:54 am
brothersale wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 10:27 pm
To be honesty i wish the comic industry would adopt a similar format. I mean how interesting would it be to have say a x-men team set in the past, one in the present, and one in future, all cross polinating plotlines for each other instead of stepping on each other's feet. Villians would show growth and long term plans and legacies, plotlines could be teased in the future setting before revealled in the past and it would end problimatic timeline and back to basic issues, as older characters could still be used in past setting while establishing new characters in future setting
That would probably end up being a nightmare of continuity, though, with stuff contradicting other stuff in short order, haha. Maybe if only one writer was in charge of it, but even THEN...
Shock Horror, you mean that a writer (or editor) may have to read material related to their own work for acuracy. Its not like they are so lazy now that they don't do silly things like have an galaxy invading force like the builders travel through 3 different Galaxies before traveling through the milky way to attack earth (note we are near the rim of our galaxy), or check if characters are dead before using them (Ventriloquist I with scarface was used in a meeting that introduced the religon of crime, despite being dead, and a second Ventriloquist being used at the same time who also had scarface).

Honesty, if they were required to read their own material, we might get better improvements as i doubt they would curn out some of the WTF moments if they became the receipiants of it as well.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Ventriloquist (Peyton Riley)

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE VENTRILOQUIST II (Peyton Riley)
Created By:
Paul Dini & Don Kramer
First Appearance: Detective Comics #827 (March 2007)
Role: Split Personality Foe, Legacy Villain
Mental Problems: Dissociative Identity Disorder (or possibly controlled by the dummy)

-Very shortly after Arnold Wesker's death, Paul Dini invented a new Ventriloquist, and being Paul Dini, made her an attractive woman. Called "Sugar" by Scarface, Peyton Riley dressed like a gangster's moll and was a better performer, able to pronounce the letter "B". She performed at the Iceberg Lounge and "he" said he'd take over the city, and even escaped Batman when the dummy was revealed to be a bomb. Riley is thus not attached to Scarface the way Wesker is- she has an endless series of replacements. Eventually, some backstory is revealed- she was the daughter of the Irish crime family's boss, and was to be married off to an Italian gangster to forge an alliance between their families- her fiancee, Matthew Atkins, was badly beaten. As Atkins was a close friend (I guess...?) of Bruce Wayne's, this made things more personal. Riley confesses this to Bruce himself, but the "Scarface" persona latches on once more.

-Her husband proved to be an incompetent gangster, but she impressed Wesker & Scarface, leading to her replacing the dead Wesker. She is nearly killed by her own husband, but regains consciousness by the place where the Tally Man was killing Wesker- she "hears" Scarface talking to her and takes the dummy. In modern times, she nearly ran off with Tommy "Hush" Elliot, but after they killed some people standing in their way, Elliot abandoned her for being "too needy". Finally, her husband is revealed to have become a more high-end gangster since shooting her- Riley & Scarface capture him and nearly throw him over the edge of his own yacht, but when Batman gets involved, he starts to strangle her. Scarface tells her "Jump, Sugar" and adds "G'bye, kiddo. I loved y..." before both hit the water with her ex, presumably killing all three. She has never reappeared.
Arcae
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:29 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (The Joker! Bag O'Bones! Harold! The Ventriloquist!)

Post by Arcae »

I mostly remember the Ventriloquist as one of the, if not the only, Rogue who got an happy ending in the Animated Series. He actually stood up against Scarface and got to have a normal life. It was nice compared to cases like Two-Face who only fell further into madness.
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