Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds (Batgirl! Huntress! Dr. Phosphorus! Magpie!)

Post by Ares »

One clever thing Batman: The Brave and the Bold did was tie the Terrible Trio together with the Bronze Tiger and Batman 's training in the martial arts. The idea was every student chose an animal mask that embodied their character. Ben Turner chose the tiger mask, Bruce chose a bat mask styled after the one he wore when Lady Shiva retrained him, etc. The Terrible Trio likewise chose the Fox, Shark and Vulture masks. The entire episode felt like an awesome Shaw Brothers movie with superheroes. Very "Five Deadly Venoms". I'd completely use that idea over any other version of the Trio.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
Skavenger
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:56 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA

Re: The Terrible Trio

Post by Skavenger »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:05 am THE TERRIBLE TRIO (The Fox, The Shark &
Created By:
Dave Wood & Sheldon Moldoff
First Appearance: Detective Comics #253 (March 1958)
Role: Jobber Villains
Group Affiliations: None

-The Terrible Trio are a band of criminals who wear goofy animal masks as disguises. They are The Fox (Warren Lawford), The Shark (Gunther Hardwicke) & The Vulture (Armand Lydecker). They fought Batman & Robin only twice before being ignored to history, then got brought out of the mothballs to threaten the new Doctor Mid-Nite. They were part of a corrupt investment firm that supported the corporation that had Pieter blinded, thus were a big part of his origin story. They later reappeared in a Batman book in 2007. There, the Shark turned on his partners, trying to kill them and fake his own death. He was replaced with Warren "Great White Shark" White.

-The trio are generic crooks, but The Vulture used trained birds. The Shark's head notably looks NOTHING like a shark's at first, being this weird purple thing. The Trio appear as a band of crooks in a Batman: The Animated Series episode I don't remember- a total one-off, it's considered the worst episode of all time by Paul Dini.
I'm pretty sure someone was inspired by the Terrible Trio to create the one-off villain team "The 'Vores" that Rick Jones fought in a single issue of Marvel Comics Presents.

Image
Sidney369
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:18 am

Re: Jab’s Builds (Barbara Gordon! Ten-Eyed Man! The Huntress!)

Post by Sidney369 »

Ken wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:28 am The best costume she had....
Image
Drawing by Phil Jimmenez, not sure which issue of Secret Files & Origins it's from.
I agree. I assume that the costume is made from bullet-proof or some other type of damage resistant material. To have a an opening that exposes the abdomen reminds me of a quote from the webcomic Spinnerette: "You have a bullet-proof fabric, and you want to cut a hole in it right over your heart?! Are you insane?"
Always ask before you use someone's Original Character.
Never ever use them without permission. Only Villains do that.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Matatoa

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

"Matatoa hasn't always been this glam- I was a drab little crab once. Now I know I can be happy as a clam- Because I'm beeeeeaaauuuuutiful, baby!"

MATATOA (Real Name Unknown)
Created By:
Devin Grayson & Roger Robinson
First Appearance: Batman- Gotham Knights #16 (June 2001)
Role: Immortal Soul-Absorber, White Guy Maori, Forgotten Villain
Group Affiliations: None
PL 9 (103)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Athletics 7 (+10)
Expertise (Criminal) 5 (+5)
Expertise (History) 4 (+4)
Intimidation 8 (+8)
Perception 7 (+7)
Stealth 1 (+4)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Equipment 3 (Guns +5- Split, Swords +3- Split), Improved Critical 2 (Sword, Gun), Ranged Attack 6, Startle, Takedown

Powers:
Immunity 1 (Aging) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Swords +11 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Guns +11 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +4, Fortitude +6, Will +6

Complications:
Motivation/Power Loss- Immortality (Absorbing Life Forces of Great Warriors)- Matatoa gains power from killing great warriors.

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 32--16 / Advantages: 15 / Powers: 1 / Defenses: 17 (103)

-Matatoa is a rarely-seen Bat-Villain from one of Devin Grayson's books- referencing the Maori culture of New Zealand (his name translates as "Fearless"), he is covered in tattoos and seeks an "undefeated warrior" so he can absorb their life force. Naturally, this leads him to fight Batman- he even vows to spend his life protecting Gotham if Batman allows Matatoa to kill him. However, Nightwing arrives and successfully beats him, sending Matatoa to Arkham. When he escapes, he fights the heroes again, but falls from a huge height. He is seen hitchhiking out of town, figuring he made the prophecy come true anyhow- he was now an "undefeated warrior". Except for that first time they beat him. I dunno.

-Matatoa is an immortal, extending his life via the life forces of others. He's a good fighter and uses twin swords or guns.
Shock
Posts: 2978
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:27 pm
Location: Connecticut USA

Re: The Terrible Trio

Post by Shock »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:05 am Image
This first picture is from their New 52 appearance in the crappy Year of the Villain event. At some point they were actually transformed into animal people rather than wearing masks. They were minions of a crazy robot that claimed to be the Oracle program that Barbara used for hacking. or something. It was really stupid.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Bane

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

BANE (Real Name Unknown)
Created By:
Chuck Dixon, Doug Moench & Graham Nolan
First Appearance: Batman- Vengeance of Bane #1 (Jan. 1993)
Role: The Breaker of the Bat, Weakened Villain, Renewed Bad-Ass
Group Affiliations: The Secret Society of Super-Villains, Suicide Squad, The League of Assassins, The Secret Six
PL 10 (171), PL 11 (171) With Venom
STRENGTH
5/7 STAMINA 5/7 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 13 DEXTERITY 6
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 (+8)
Athletics 8 (+13, +15 Venom)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+14)
Expertise (Criminal) 6 (+10)
Expertise (Current Events) 8 (+12)
Insight 4 (+8)
Intimidation 6 (+10)
Investigation 8 (+12)
Perception 5 (+9)
Stealth 2 (+6)
Technology 2 (+6)
Treatment 2 (+6)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Assessment, Beginner's Luck, Chokehold, Daze (Intimidation), Diehard, Eidetic Memory, Equipment 2 (Assorted Mercenary Gear), Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 2, Improved Disarm, Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Improved Trip, Jack-of-All-Trades, Languages 2 (Several), Last Stand (Ignores All Damage for 1 Round w/ HP Spent), Leadership, Luck, Power Attack, Prone Fighting, Ranged Attack 2, Startle, Takedown 2, Tracking, Ultimate Strength, Well-Informed, Withstand Damage (Trade Defenses For Toughness)

Powers:
"Venom Harness" (Flaws: Removable) (Feats: Restricted to Those Able to Take Venom) [8]
Enhanced Strength & Stamina 2 (8)
Regeneration 2 (2)
-- (10 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +14 (+5 Damage, DC 19)
Venom Boosted +14 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +10

Defenses:
Dodge +13 (DC 23), Parry +14 (DC 24), Toughness +5 (+7 Venom), Fortitude +7 (+9 Venom), Will +9

Complications:
Addiction (Venom)- Bane is often addicted to the dangerous substance known as Venom, which gives him enhanced strength.
Relationship (Scandal Savage)- Bane has a weird fatherly relationship with Scandal, taking desperate means to protect her.

Total: Abilities: 90 / Skills: 56--28 / Advantages: 37 / Powers: 8 / Defenses: 8 (171)

Bane- Would-Be Megavillain Ruined By Jobbing:
-Bane is one of those guys I feel could have been really big if they'd pushed him properly... except then I realize that he's had like two movie appearances and several prominent shots in other DC materials, so he's actually a pretty damn big name... Okay, so one of those appearances was as a goon in a Shumacher movie, and in the next, he has one of the stupidest voices ever given a character in a film- they still count!

-Bane debuted with one of the biggest pushes ever given a new supervillain, bar-none. He used a combination of planning, foresight and raw strength to utterly defeat Batman, "Breaking the Bat" and snapping Bruce Wayne's spine, rendering him crippled. This was such big news that my freaking GRANDMOTHER told me about it as if it was a big deal. This led to the arc where Bruce was replaced as Batman by the crazier, more dangerous, "extreme" '90s hero who eventually became Azrael- a deliberate attempt by DC's writers to decry the "Image Archetype" bad-ass anti-heroes that were plaguing the industry at the time.

-Bane debuted in the Knightfall storyline- he was a man who'd been imprisoned as a child due to his father's crimes. Despite the brutality of the jail, he learned the hard way, bodybuilding and reading anything he could get his hands on, turning into the ultimate fighter and the "King" of the prison. The jail controllers notice, and he is subjected to deadly experiments to test out a new super-steroid called "Venom", which had killed all of the other test subjects. He proves to be the only survivor. Naturally, he uses this to escape the prison, but he is forced to constantly use the Venom every twelve hours, lest he suffer debilitating side-effects. He of course begins hunting Batman, thanks to a lifelong fear of bats (gained from nightmares he had). In one of comics' most iconic panels, he snaps Bruce's back after a long, drawn out fight (which also involves loosing other villains within Gotham, in order to tire Batman out).

Where Things Falter:
-Now THIS? This is how you make someone's rep. This is "Bullseye Kills Elektra" level stuff, yo. And so of course they utterly screwed it up. Though he managed to beat "AzBats" in their first fight, Jean-Paul Valley soon upgrades to a higher-tech Bat-outfit, soon upending the villain. Desperate for more Venom, and begging for death, Bane is instead tortured by the increasingly-nutso Valley, calling ahead to the end of the Knightfall story-arc. Bane begs and pleads to be put out of his misery as Valley slices up his Venom intake tubes and slices him to ribbons, but Valley chooses to leave him alive, but humiliated. Bane has now been jobbed out to "put over the new guy", who later ends up losing back to Batman.

-Bruce soon regains the cowl of Batman, while Bane recovers in Blackgate Prison, kicking his Venom dependency and rebuilding his body. He makes an abrupt "face turn", helping to clean up Gotham of a Venom-derivative. He briefly joins Ra's al-Ghul's group, where he impresses Ra's enough to be named his new heir... but finally gets his rematch with Bruce, who ultimately defeats him. Disappointed by Bane's failure, Ra's calls off the engagement and exiles him. This leads to a long string of "Bane Jobbings", as all of his credibility is slowly wiped out by popping up in random places and losing fights- he attempts to destroy Gotham with a nuclear reactor in Batman: Bane, but again loses (and this is in *1997*- only four years after his debut!). Later, he ambushes and defeats Azrael, brutally beating him and getting him addicted to a more potent form of Venom, but Azrael fights to overcome his addiction and gets his win back, psyching out the villain and beating him again.

-Later, he allies with Lex Luthor during No Man's Land, then Batman again in an arc where he finds his real birth father, the villain King Snake, and the two beat King Snake together. However, he reappears as a villain in Infinite Crisis, where he is seen killing Judomaster, via the same back-breaking move that "Broke the Bat". Later, he kidnaps Rex & Rick Tyler, the Hourmen, and attempts to kill the former and addict the latter to Venom, owing to the fact that Venom was apparently based on Rex's early research on Miraclo. But Rick ultimately defeats him. And then, shortly thereafter, Judomaster's son soon easily defeats him in revenge for the murder of the original! Finally, he is easily defeated again by a Superman-powered Batman in Superman/Batman, with SuperBats nearly killing him by accident!

Bane The Wimp/Bane The Recovered Bad-Ass:
-So this kind of writing- that is, using Bane's pre-existing credibility as a way to "put over" others for beaing him, had ended up doing a lot of damage to the character. Much like Doomsday, who had similar '90s cred, he had been reduced to being a jobber. Practically a living joke with no cred at all. Hence... Gail Simone's Secret Six book. Here, he is depicted as a stoic, deadpan "devil's advocate", producing some funny moments through his sheer humorlessness. His intense, fatherly desire to protect Scandal at all costs came out of nowhere, yet was hilariously weird. At one point, he accepts torture with a completely straight face, and when given the option to have his life spared if his teammates die instead, he bluntly goes "I die". In short, Bane was turned back into an awesome bad-ass. In the end of the series, he is driven to madness, pumps himself full of Venom (which he hadn't used since the mid-90s, though artists tended to always draw him with the tubes in), and leads the Six in an assault against a veritable superhero army. The fates of the Six are left unknown, but Bane is later seen helping out various characters against the Court of Owls, and he appears frequently in the Nu52 and Rebirth eras.

-So overall, Bane had a lot of goodwill and credibility built up as a villain, but ultimately lost it all as the Bat-Editors apparently didn't care enough to protect him from random writers using him as a speed-bump for other characters to look good against. Gail Simone made him a funny and bad-ass character again, and the final Christopher Nolan Batman Trilogy movie used him as a baddie, so he was back in the spotlight... but the hilarious voice they had him use kind of worked against him.

Bane's Venomous Might:
-Bane is a PL 9.5 fighter who upgrades to PL 10.5 with Venom- New Villain Stink put him over Batman himself, crippling the hero... but he never matched that reputation again (apologies to Judomaster's fans), and you could argue he fell to PL 9 at one point before Secret Six re-badassed him (er, "Catmanned" him). Here, he had some GREAT bad-ass moments, such as holding up under torture (to the point where he lectured his torturer's methods), insisting that he die in his teammates' places, etc.- Simone spent so much time playing up OTHERS as bad-ass, yet BANE was the guy who came off looking the toughest out of that series. Bane is also a remarkable Skillmonkey, and more clever than you'd think for a guy who could hit as hard as Spider-Man.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
Sidney369
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:18 am

Re: Jab’s Builds (Batgirl! Huntress! Dr. Phosphorus! Magpie!)

Post by Sidney369 »

Minor detail: Rex and Rick Tyler were the Hourman. You must have been thinking of Metamorpho.
Always ask before you use someone's Original Character.
Never ever use them without permission. Only Villains do that.
Thorpocalypse
Posts: 3239
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:52 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Huntress! Dr. Phosphorus! Magpie! Bane!)

Post by Thorpocalypse »

Tom King's run on Batman wasn't great but one of the things he did right was Bane. King seemed like he "got" the villains way more than Batman and he made Bane a bigger player again. The I Am Suicide arc was fun as hell.

And I know Tom Hardy's Bane voice was....an interesting choice...but there's nothing more fun than when you cast the Bane spell in D&D than covering your mouth and slurring "I am [insert creature's name here] reckoning". 8-)
Me fail English? That's unpossible. - Ralph Wiggum
Skavenger
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:56 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA

Re: Jab’s Builds (Huntress! Dr. Phosphorus! Magpie! Bane!)

Post by Skavenger »

I did my post recently about how DC's inferiority complex lead to them attempting to make their characters more relatable in their attempt to mimic Marvel, and characters like Bane and Doomsday were very much a part of that. They were both an attempt to do something new, and while Doomsday didn't quite work out the way I think DC hoped out, Bane was, by far, a smash hit. Unlike most of their heroes post-Crisis, Batman had only gotten more powerful as time went on, both because of great works from Frank Miller. The Batman of Year One was incredibly skilled and ridiculously wealthy, and then you had the "I'm a surgeon" gritty Batman who took down Superman in The Dark Knight Returns (a book that I maintain everybody took the wrong lessons from, much like Watchmen).

So, how do you show that Batman has limits, if he's better than any single man? You have him face an army, and let his own dedication to fighting crime lead to his downfall. It's important to note that Bane wasn't just "some guy who trounced Batman," he was the last in a long line of people who had been fighting Batman (including several major fights against guys like Metalhead right before Knightfall even started). For you wrestling fans, it would be like if a wrestler managed to last from the beginning of Royal Rumble just to have the Undertaker come in as the last opponent they faced.

It's also pretty obvious that the Batman writers wanted this to be a new villain instead of someone established. This could easily have been the KGBeast, Ra's al-Ghul, Red Claw (anybody else remember Red Claw?), or any number of other masterminds, but DC instead pulled from their character history and decided to recycle a few themes into something pretty amazing. Looking at Bane, you see the influence of storylines like "Venom" from Legends of the Dark Knight (another story about Batman attempting to push past his limits) and from characters such as KGBeast (too physically formidable for Batman, wearing a luchador mask), The Wrath (the anti-Batman), and Bonecrusher (the villain who lead up to Detective Comics #600).

Image

For those who don't remember Bonecrusher, tell me if this feels familiar: Batman encounters a brand new massive villain with a massive cable system connected to his body, during a lengthy series of battles and realizing he's dealing with a mastermind who knows his secret identity, he winds up critically injured and paralyzed, needing to push his body to extreme limits in order to recover, and in the end the mind behind it all winds up being taken out by someone very much like Batman, but is willing to kill and is more brutal.

Yeah, DC didn't really hide their self-plagiarism there, but to simply say that's all Knightfall was is kind of cheapening both stories, cause they're both excellent in their own ways.

From The Wrath and other anti-Batmen (including the later Prometheus), we got the person whose origin stems from the polar opposite of Bruce Wayne's origin: instead of wealth, a headquarters, a butler, and the means to travel the world and train, you have a man forced to learn and train his naturally athletic abilities and his high intelligence in a confined space with hostile forces surrounding him at all times.

And, like Batman, he makes plans. He doesn't just show up in Gotham and challenge Batman to a fight, he figures out the man's identity, creates an army of villains (that he also provides weapons to), builds up his own small squad of like-minded people to help him, and then waits for Batman to be at his lowest point. He makes a plan, and it WORKS.

Which I think is the part of Bane that most writers forget about. He's a mastermind. A planner. He's not just some brute force that shows up to snap backs (see: Infinite Crisis), he's somebody that sets up a whole agenda before he even shows up, and by the time you realize he's even involved, you're already hip-deep in trying to survive what he's throwing at you. Ever since Knightfall (which let's remember ends with an evil Batman being defeated by an evil Batman who then needs to be defeated by Batman) he's just sort of floundered around, popping up and looking for things to do. I liked Secret Six but having him just be brute muscle with a strange paternal feeling for Scandal Savage is just another example of DC not really knowing what to do with the guy, so he just stands around and waits to be useful. Bane should be up there with characters like Vandal Savage, Kobra, and Ra's al-Ghul: Possible threats for entire teams if just because he's mapped out everything ahead of time.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Azrael

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Note to Creators: When you keep having to revamp the hero's costume to make him more popular, that's a sign that your hero sucks.

AZRAEL II (Jean-Paul Valley, aka Batman II)
Created By:
Denny O'Neil, Grant Morrison, Peter Milligan & Joe Quesada
First Appearance: Batman- Sword of Azrael #1 (Oct. 1992)
Role: Temporary Replacement, Image-Style Hero
Group Affiliations: The Order of St. Dumas, Justice League Odyssey, Justice League Task Force, The Justice League
Mental Problems: Brainwashing, Violent Nature
PL 10 (141)
STRENGTH
5 STAMINA 5 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 13 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 7 (+12)
Athletics 8 (+13)
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Streetwise) 2 (+4)
Expertise (Computers) 4 (+6)
Insight 4 (+6)
Intimidation 6 (+8)
Investigation 5 (+7)
Perception 8 (+10)
Stealth 4 (+9)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Equipment 4 (Sword, Daggers, Assassin Gear), Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Critical (Daggers), Ranged Attack 4, Tracking, Ultimate Fortitude Save, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Enhanced Anatomy"
Speed 2 (8 mph) [2]
Leaping 1 (15 feet) [1]

Equipment:
"Body Armor" Protection 1 (1)
"Night-Vision Goggles" Infravision (1)
"Climbing Claws" Wall-Crawling 1 (2)
"Flaming Sword" Strength-Damage +3 (Feats: Improved Critical) (4)
"Thermal Daggers" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Improved Critical, Split) (4)

Offense:
Unarmed +13 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Daggers +13 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Flaming Sword +12 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +14 (DC 24), Parry +14 (DC 24), Toughness +5 (+6 Armor), Fortitude +9, Will +7

Complications:
Enemy (Carlton LeHah)- LeHah killed Valley's father, and becomes a recurring foe, once faking his death.
Responsibility (Brainwashing)- Valley is subject to frequent hallucinations and delusions as a result of being part of the Order of St. Dumas, who brainwashed him from a young age to be a killer.

Total: Abilities: 78 / Skills: 52--26 / Advantages: 15 / Powers: 3 / Defenses: 19 (141)

Azrael- Would-Be Replacement:
-Azrael is so friggin' weird- created as a temporary replacement for Batman, both to boost sales and to be DC's example that "Image-Style Heroes Suck" (Marvel did this a bunch, too), he went on to become a recurring character, but was so tightly cloistered into his own comic that he essentially never mattered to mainstream comics again. Yet that book was around FOREVER, lasting as long as the original New Mutants book did, for example- a full 100 issues! He started out in a comic only five months before he was meant to be the new Batman, acting as a member of the Order of St. Dumas- a band of assassins determined to bring justice to Gotham. The "sinister religious secret society" had secretly brainwashed him so that even HE wasn't aware of his double-life, acting as a graduate student by day, and an assassin by night.

-Valley was "activated" upon the death of his father- he tracked down his father's killer, saving a captive Bruce Wayne in the process, using some intuitive detective work and impressing both Wayne & Alfred. He risked himself to save Bruce, rejecting his brainwashing and getting Batman's help to break his conditioning. He is made an apprentice crimefighter under Batman & Robin, but when Batman is beaten and paralyzed by Bane, Valley decides that Bruce's tactics are obsolete, and decides to fight criminals on their own terms- brutally and without mercy. Against Bruce's orders, he puts on a Batman costume, first losing, but coming back with some lethal high-tech gear and torturing Bane half to death.

-Valley's actions as Batman grow more and more negative- he allows a mass murderer named Abattoir to fall to his death, leading to one of the hostages dying too. He grows delusional, nearly strangling Robin and banishing him from the Batcave, rejects the Gotham P.D., and sees hallucinations of his father and the Order. At first impressed by Valley-As-Batman, Bruce realizes he has to be stopped, and eventually recovers the use of his spine thanks to magic healing and training- he & Valley battle for ages and across Gotham, until Bruce tricks him into removing his armor and then exposing his night-vision lenses to bright sunlight- this shocks him out of his brainwashing and he accepts Bruce as the "True Batman", giving up the role.

Azrael- Solo Character:
-However, the decision was made to make Azrael a recurring comic. Denny O'Neil, co-creator and Bat-Editor, said "If I'd known he was to become a monthly character, I might have set him up differently ... The problem is that I had to turn a bad guy into a real hero, not just an anti-hero or lead. It's possible to do that, but it's difficult to retain the original characterization. You almost have to change his personality". Bruce seeks out Valley and attempts to help him find the Order of St. Dumas and accepts his own culpability in the disastrous Bat-run. In order to boost sales, he was tied more strongly into the Bat Family line and the book was titled Azrael: Agent of the Bat with #47. He helps out during No Man's Land and accepts more direct help from Batman. He later defeats Bane a second time, even after the villain forces him to become addicted to Venom- Valley recovers in a single night and defeats him.

-Valley's father's killer turns up alive, and Azrael is seemingly killed fighting him in Azrael #100, the final issue- he & the man fall into the river. He disappeared for several years before his death was FINALLY confirmed in an almost offhand manner in Blackest Night, after rumors of him being alive popped up here & there. However, he makes a tiny cameo at Batman's funeral in 2009- he gets no lines and may not be actually canon. The character only shows up for real in the "New 52" run. He's also there in "Rebirth". However, his solo run seems long-accepted as just a giant, longform mistake. I have no idea how that thing lasted 100 issues. Wikipedia can barely even be bothered to summarize it!

Azrael's Might:
-Azrael has a combination of inhuman stats and natural fighting ability, using both to equal guys like Batman & Bane in combat temporarily. He's got moderate weapons and can modify a bunch of his caps that way, but tends to use All-Out Attack. He has an unusually high Fortitude Save, as he almost never tires and can do things like kick an addiction to Venom in a single night.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:53 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds (Huntress! Dr. Phosphorus! Magpie! Bane!)

Post by Ares »

If they wanted to have an anti-hero in the Bat Family I still would have preferred Azrael over them bringing Jason Todd back to life as the Red Hood.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
User avatar
drkrash
Posts: 594
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:23 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Huntress! Dr. Phosphorus! Magpie! Bane!)

Post by drkrash »

Still catching up. Given my increasing recognition that I have a thing for brunette superheroes, Helena Bertinelli is a fave of mine. This is also very likely a result of me really getting to know the character during Simone's BoP.

For the same reason, I tend to think of Barbara as Oracle. I didn't have a real issue with her getting to be Batgirl again, but I couldn't get into the idea that she was 10 years younger and a lot less mature.

Anyway, what is the best run of post-Oracle Batgirl? I have DC Universe, so I could add it to my reading list.
Shadow Ops - cinematic espionage action RPG - Kickstarter live now!
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Huntress! Dr. Phosphorus! Magpie! Bane!)

Post by Jabroniville »

drkrash wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:30 pm Still catching up. Given my increasing recognition that I have a thing for brunette superheroes, Helena Bertinelli is a fave of mine. This is also very likely a result of me really getting to know the character during Simone's BoP.

For the same reason, I tend to think of Barbara as Oracle. I didn't have a real issue with her getting to be Batgirl again, but I couldn't get into the idea that she was 10 years younger and a lot less mature.

Anyway, what is the best run of post-Oracle Batgirl? I have DC Universe, so I could add it to my reading list.
Almost certainly the Batgirl of Burnside run, but it probably also contains everything you dislike about teenagers in it :).
User avatar
drkrash
Posts: 594
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:23 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (Huntress! Dr. Phosphorus! Magpie! Bane!)

Post by drkrash »

I own a couple, so that might not bother me so much. What would annoy me more is if Barb acts like a ditz.
Shadow Ops - cinematic espionage action RPG - Kickstarter live now!
Shock
Posts: 2978
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:27 pm
Location: Connecticut USA

Re: Jab’s Builds (Huntress! Dr. Phosphorus! Magpie! Bane!)

Post by Shock »

drkrash wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:30 pm Still catching up. Given my increasing recognition that I have a thing for brunette superheroes, Helena Bertinelli is a fave of mine. This is also very likely a result of me really getting to know the character during Simone's BoP.

For the same reason, I tend to think of Barbara as Oracle. I didn't have a real issue with her getting to be Batgirl again, but I couldn't get into the idea that she was 10 years younger and a lot less mature.

Anyway, what is the best run of post-Oracle Batgirl? I have DC Universe, so I could add it to my reading list.
Sadly, by post-Oracle you're looking at New 52 and beyond. In my opinion it's probably the beginning of New 52 when Simone was writing. You'll want to avoid anything with James Jr.
Post Reply