Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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catsi563
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Catwoman! Cyber-CAT! Black Spider! Richard Dragon!!)

Post by catsi563 »

the scene with Huntress was a neat one for me where Helena had been pushing so hard fighting so long that shed forgotten the most basic element of life, just slow down and breath. take a moment to just stop, dont think dont react just stop and breath

the scene where he is doing taichi is so compelling because theyre both doing tai chi but richard is doing it slow and focused to where it takes him 4 panels to do one more transition which is as it should be

but helena is so frantic that shes fighting through the moves treating them like a fight choreography so shes basically gone through 6-8 move sin 1 panel

this moment is used to show her the need to slow down which she then uses to finally get the past behind her and succeed in taking down the crimes families earning batmans praise
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Lady Shiva

Post by Jabroniville »

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LADY SHIVA (Shiva Woosan/Woo-San)
Created By:
Dennis O'Neil & Ric Estrada
First Appearance: Richard Dragon, Kung Fu Fighter #5 (Dec. 1975)
Role: The Gold Standard of DCU Martial Artists, Permanent "Worf"
Group Affiliations: The League of Assassins, The Brotherhood of the Fist, The Birds of Prey
PL 11 (175)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 5 AGILITY 7
FIGHTING 14 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 9 (+16)
Athletics 11 (+14)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 4 (+18)
Deception 6 (+8)
Expertise (International Assassin) 11 (+14)
Insight 4 (+8)
Intimidation 4 (+6)
Investigation 2 (+6)
Perception 6 (+10)
Sleight of Hand 1 (+6)
Stealth 6 (+13)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Agile Feint, Assessment, Chokehold, Defensive Attack, Diehard, Evasion, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Grab Finesse, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 3, Improved Defense, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative 2, Improved Hold, Improved Smash, Improved Trip, Instant Up, Languages 2 (Various- World Traveller), Move-By Action, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 2, Startle, Takedown 2, Tracking, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Martial Artist" Strength-Damage +1 [1]
"Leopard Blow" Strength-Damage +2 (Inaccurate -1) [1]
"Reads Body Language" Immunity 5 (Interaction Effects) [5]

Offense:
Unarmed +18 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Leopard Blow +16 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +15

Defenses:
Dodge +15 (DC 25), Parry +17 (DC 27), Toughness +5, Fortitude +7, Will +8

Complications:
Motivation (Fighting)- Shiva is a born fighter, and only respects those willing to fight. She lives as an assassin or vigilante at times simply to put herself into these addictive, dangerous situations.
Relationship (Many)- Shiva is rivals with Black Canary, respects who Batman used to be, and once kind of had a thing with The Question. Her daughter is the third Batgirl, and she often gives some advice to the girl.

Total: Abilities: 86 / Skills: 64--32 / Advantages: 33 / Powers: 7 / Defenses: 17 (175)

Lady Shiva- The Best Fighter at DC?:
-Of all the characters to be selected as "The Greatest Martial Artist Alive"- and from an obscure failed 1970s Martial Arts book, no less! But alas, all you have to do is check out the head writer in charge of both that book & Batman's run, in order to figure out WHY she was randomly-selected for this highest of honors. Dennis O'Neil basically loved his Pet Character so much he introduced her into the Bat-verse when Dragon's book died on the vine, and suddenly Shiva Woosan was Queen of the Mountain. The funny thing is... she's done VERY LITTLE to justify that, and notably has spent the last 30 or so years being "That one who jobs out to put the new star over", losing again and again in other books- her reputation now used to further other characters.

-So Lady Shiva debuted in Richard Dragon, Kung-Fu Fighter, hunting down Dragon, believing that he murdered her sister Carolyn- learning martial arts to kill the hero, she discovered she was a prodigy, and rapidly became amazing in short order. However, Dragon was framed by some douchebag. Upon discovering this, Shiva allies with Dragon temporarily, then disappears, craving action and danger instead of the more spiritual side of martial arts. She would reappear in O'Neil's The Question and Batman books (but especially The Question, where she spares the hero due to his "passion for combat" and has him trained by Richard), and is suddenly so amazing that she's able to kick BRUCE'S ass. In the search for Jason Todd's birth-mother, Shiva (an early candidate) fights Batman to a standstill, with the hero realizing that she could well kill him- it takes Robin's intervention to stop her.

Post-90s Lady Shiva:
-It seems that by this point Shiva, despite only really tying Batman, has now been called "The Best Fighter Alive", along with other O'Neil characters Richard Dragon & Bronze Tiger- as Batman featured the pre-eminent non-powered hero in DC, this allowed the reputation to stick, and it became repeated in many other books over the years (and has continued on to the official DC Adventures RPG, which inflated her stats to a ridiculous PL 14). This rep means that various heroes attempt to train with her- Batman sends Tim Drake- the new Robin- to be trained by her in fighting (Tim chooses the bo staff, a non-lethal weapon- as his own, and defeats her in a sparring match with one), and Batman himself goes to her when Bane breaks his spine- she is a merciless trainer, sending lethal assassins after him (she murdered a legendary master while wearing a mask she makes Bruce wear as part of his training, making him a target)... but it works.

-By the late '90s, it seemed like Shiva's reputation had snowballed into this INSANE ranking as the Greatest Fighter Ever- she was given lip service in various Bat-books, bios and RPG builds, and even in the pages of Birds of Prey. She was THE best, and that was all there was to it- "BattleBoards" gave her the rating as the top fighter of all, yet none could back this up with real evidence, as was often the case in those days. Eventually, her status as the mother of Cassandra "Batgirl" Cain is given as one of many Mary Sue-esque reasons why Cass is such an automatic bad-ass.Some backstory later on would reveal her to be the mother of Cassandra Cain- her origin is rewritten so that Carolyn was killed by David Cain because Shiva was holding back during sparring because of her love for Carolyn- now "free" of this burden, Shiva discovers she had tons of undeveloped potential, and is spared by Cain when she assaults him. She of course agrees to bear his child, who is raised to become the ultimate killer by the League of Assassins.

Shiva the Measuring Stick:
-The funny thing is, BECAUSE of this rep, Shiva also became a high-profile Measuring Stick, often appearing in books JUST to give her respect to the stars- in one BoP comic, they do the "Thing/Champion" brawl with Huntress, where Helena earns her respect for not falling, and in friggin' Robin, TIM DRAKE of all people scores a win over her in a duel, and beats her while under "Super-Speed" drugs! He even kills her and has to bring her back to life. Cheshire beats her and ties her up in another book, and in a Batgirl story-arc, CASSANDRA defeats her! This at least is a big pay-off- Shiva defeats her in their first meeting, and is disappointed. So she retrains the girl (who was suffering some setbacks mentally at the time of their fight), and gives her back that killer instinct, and loses their rematch. Another time, she beats Shiva so badly that she's CRIPPLED and left to die next to a Lazarus Pit! Later, Prometheus manages to hand Shiva her ass in a quick skirmish, too!

-Eventually, it comes out that Shiva has had a life-long death wish of sorts- her constant desire for danger and battle was a means towards this, as was her giving birth- she wanted her child to be the one to kill her. Cassandra refused to go that far (hence the paralysis and the way out). Later, she attempts to train a girl named Sin to be as good as she is, but the Birds of Prey take the girl away. She ambles along until the continuity reboot, and appears as a backgrounder in some of the later continuities.

-All of this continues the struggle comics has with characters with bad-ass reputations, but no books of their own- look at how many times poor BULLSEYE gets trotted out to job to guys, all because of his reputation for killing Elektra (back when SHE was an "All Talk" bad-ass). Shiva ends up being used as this "Measuring Stick" to show off how good other fighters are, as people like Tim Drake, Connor Hawke and others all survive fights with her in order to prove their worth. Cassandra flat-out beats her during the "Batgirl God Push" as well. So is Shiva an "All Talk" Bad-Ass? Is it all pretend? Well... not REALLY, but it's damn close. Her rep exists because people keep SAYING it's there, but as a whole, she's not nearly as spectacular as she's claimed to be.

Lady Shiva's "All Talk" Capabilities:
-So, in short, Lady Shiva can get a PL 11 and FREAKING LIKE IT. There is no way in HELL that PL 14 she got in DC Adventures was justified by actual content from the books- I can only assume that DC Editorial still wants her "Best Ever" reputation to stay in effect, however obvious it is from the comics she's only a TINY bit above the standard greats like Batman, Black Canary & Nightwing. In Marvel terms, she's above Shang-Chi by one notch of accuracy & damage, on the level of modern-day Iron Fist, and one below Captain America with his Shield. That's all the respect really owed to her.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Catwoman! Black Spider! Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva!)

Post by catsi563 »

Definitely love to see Shiva go against Danny and Shang Chi the fights alone would make the books worth it
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Catwoman! Black Spider! Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva!)

Post by Skavenger »

I posted in the Discord, there's a spreadsheet online that catalogues Shiva's various fights. She actually rather earns that reputation as being the best ever with a win score of 53% and 19% of her fights being interrupted. A lot of her losses can also be chalked up to "unfair" advantages others have had, such as the speed drug Robin was on, being poisoned pre-fight (twice), someone being "powered by psychic energy from worshippers," being handcuffed at the time...and once she lost to "a two-dimensional scribble of Cyborg" but I think that was a children's book.

She's hardly a jobber, and hardly "all talk" if she has a win/loss record over 50%.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Catwoman! Black Spider! Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva!)

Post by Ares »

If I had it my way, Shiva, Ben Turner and Richard Dragon would all be the top martial artists of the DCU, with Cassandra Cane being the latest person capable of potentially breaking into that tier, but is less capable due to her age and inexperience. But overall these three or four people would be the ones to beat in terms of overall skill. I would put Peter Cannon and the original Judomaster in that tier list as well, but Peter is someone whose legal status is kind of up in the air and Judomaster is barely seen anymore.

To me this would put Shiva, Ben and Richard on the same level as Shang and Danny, though Danny has access to more raw power and outright chi tricks than the rest of the group. I'm a broken record about what kind of martial arts are "allowed" in Marvel and DC, but Shang has actually stepped up his game these days and is a full on bullet catcher now. Really, in some ways Danny should be more akin to Marvel's version of Karate Kid.

Either way, it'd make it to where the actual elite martial artists of the setting are dedicated martial artists, as opposed to Batman or Captain America. Dragon, Danny, Shiva, Shang and Ben should be the types who enter into any given situation with just their martial arts skills and can get out of it just fine.

But yeah, as others have mentioned, her original write-up in DC Heroes was just nuts. She had a higher frickin PL than Val Armor of all people, the guy who gets Pre-Crisis Kryptonians into unbreakable body locks.
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The Question

Post by Jabroniville »

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Green Arrow: "This whole trip might just prove the kid (Supergirl) shouldn't eat Nachos before bed!"
The Question: "Peanut Butter Sandwiches."
Supergirl: "How'd y-- What? Do you go through my TRASH?!"
The Question: "PLEASE... I go through everyone's trash."


THE QUESTION (Victor Sage, Charles Victor Szasz)
Created By:
Steve Ditko
First Appearance: The Blue Beetle #1 (June 1967)
Role: Ensemble Darkhorse, Conspiracy Theorist, Greatest Character Ever (In Animated Form)
PL 8 (136)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+7)
Athletics 5 (+7)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+12)
Deception 5 (+7)
Expertise (Streetwise) 6 (+9)
Expertise (Politics) 5 (+8)
Expertise (Philosophy) 10 (+13)
Expertise (Journalism) 6 (+9)
Insight 5 (+9)
Intimidation 3 (+5, +9 Mask)
Investigation 10 (+14)
Perception 6 (+10)
Sleight of Hand 6 (+10)
Stealth 4 (+9)
Vehicles 2 (+6)

Advantages:
Beginner's Luck, Benefit (Quick Change), Chokehold, Daze (Intimidation), Diehard, Equipment 3 (Sweet Car, Detective Gear, Scary Mask, Color-Change Clothing), Fascinate (Deception), Fast Grab, Fearless, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Jack-of-All-Trades, Precise Attack (Close/Concealment), Ranged Attack 2, Startle, Tracking, Ultimate Investigation Skill, Well-Informed

Equipment:
"Scary Mask" Enhanced Skills 4: Intimidation 4 (+9) (2)

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +3, Fortitude +5, Will +8

Complications:
Motivation (Justice)- The Question fights the corrupt politicians of the dismal Hub City.
Relationship (Myra Firman)- Vic loves the brassy, corruption-fighting politician, and wants to help her save Hub City.
Relationship (The Huntress)- He tries to get her to become a Zen Non-Killer like him, probably because JLU paired them off.

Total: Abilities: 68 / Skills: 80--40 / Advantages: 20 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 14 (136)

The Question- Surely The Next Breakout CharactePSYCHE!:
-I think the most "DC Comics" thing ever might be the time The Question hit the absolute peak of his popularity and credibility thanks to the AMAZING job they did in the Justice League Unlimited cartoon (in which he stole every episode he was in with his kooky conspiracy theorist act)... right when they killed him off in the comics and replaced him with a Legacy Character.

-The Question is a weird character in comics. Initially a character to represent Steve Ditko's own Objectivist beliefs about moral absolutism and stuff, the character was altered by Dennis O'Neal to be more about Eastern mysticism, and he got a lot of those "Well-Loved, but not Popular" series. He's arguably more notable for being the inspiration for Alan Moore's Rorschach (Moore was gonna just use the Charlton characters, but savvy DC Editors realized this would ruin said characters forever, and so Moore made Expies of the guys instead), the stand-out character from Watchmen- taking his absolutist views to an even more extreme level. DC killed Vic during the 52 series and replaced him with Renee Montoya... right in time for him to become a big breakout character in Justice League Unlimited. Because DC ALWAYS has luck like that.

The Question's Weird History:
-But the actual comic book version of The Question is a constantly-changing character- he started off as a typical Steve Ditko character- a violent, Objectivist crimefighter who was also a crimefighter in his CIVILIAN guise- an investigative reporter. He got some cool "false skin" from a scientist he knew, and started fighting crime using methods more befitting the brutal 1940s Golden Age heroes, who often left people for dead (for example, he left a bunch of crooks floating through a fast-moving sewer, simply calling the police to catch them in case they survived). Here, he was a back-up guy in the Blue Beetle book, but the whole Charlton line was cancelled within five appearances. He disappeared with the other Charlton Heroes, re-debuting in 1985 Post-Crisis DC.

-At DC, he was put under the pen of Batman Writer/Editor Dennis O'Neil, who used his love of "Kung Fu" stuff to recreate the character entirely. The brutal Question was beaten and nearly killed by Lady Shiva (a Richard Dragon character), who then spared him and had him trained by Dragon himself. Q began being trained by Dragon himself (O'Neil's beloved creation, remember), who taught him a lot of Zen philosophy. Question fought against the corruption of Hub City, a bleak town based off of East St. Louis, Illinois. The series lasted for 41 issues, which is a decent run- O'Neil would give reading lists to the fans in his letters columns (HOMEWORK? In a COMIC BOOK?). He finds himself able to kill again (in order to save the life of his love interest's mentally-handicapped daughter), but in a more "zen" way, devoted to protecting others. Ultimately, though, he and Dragon leave Hub City as it's falling into complete anarchy, feeling that living there is literally killing him.

Subsequent Questions, Too Late To Matter:
-A Retcon Series started in 2005, retconning him into some kind of weird "Urban Shaman" who exhibited tons of lethality. It seems really dumb. And then just as JLU makes him a huge potential star, the Question (who, to be fair, was mostly adopting a parody of the 1960s Steve Ditko characters' paranoia and a dose of Moore's Rorschach, and was in no way like his comic book self any longer) dies in the longform 52 comic, after a subplot in which he takes the hurting, retired Gotham detective Renee Montoya, training her as his resplacement while he fades away of lung cancer. When he dies, Renee takes on his mask, becoming the new Question.

-The "New 52" gets confusing, as the original Question returns, but in two different forms- one shows up in in arc, and another one shows up with nothing mentioned of the other stories, and is now a government agent. This kind of showcases how little care or control DC had at this point.

The Question's Abilities:
-The Question lacks alot of the physical power of his fellows, being only a fedora-wearing Dick (not THAT kind of dick...) with a ton of Skills, and some good (but not "kill half of a city in hand-to-hand") fighting abilities. He's out-classed by other martial artists like... well, almost everybody, so he's only a weak PL 7/7.5. But his Skills... he's no Batman Family member, but he's very good, and has a great knowledge of Philosophy that leaves him more "at peace" than the intense, bitter protagonists of the Bat-verse (which is probably why they're way more popular than poor Vic is- the fans like 'em tortured).
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Catwoman! Black Spider! Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Skavenger wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:12 am I posted in the Discord, there's a spreadsheet online that catalogues Shiva's various fights. She actually rather earns that reputation as being the best ever with a win score of 53% and 19% of her fights being interrupted. A lot of her losses can also be chalked up to "unfair" advantages others have had, such as the speed drug Robin was on, being poisoned pre-fight (twice), someone being "powered by psychic energy from worshippers," being handcuffed at the time...and once she lost to "a two-dimensional scribble of Cyborg" but I think that was a children's book.

She's hardly a jobber, and hardly "all talk" if she has a win/loss record over 50%.
It’s pretty weaksauce for a “Best in the World” character, however, to have such a low score. The problem is the “measuring stick” thing.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Catwoman! Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva! The Question!)

Post by squirrelly-sama »

Looking through some old Question videos on Youtube. It appears he actually likes "Corporate Prepackaged Pop" music, he uses it to interrogate some guy but later in the show when he's breaking into a building he's singing the same song to himself.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Catwoman! Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva! The Question!)

Post by Arcae »

Looking at Ditko's hard objectivist characters like the Question or Mr. A. really make it apparent of how Roscharch's craziness wasn't that much of an exageration.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Catwoman! Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva! The Question!)

Post by Jack of Spades »

I'm on record as saying the Question has the best costume in all of comics, hands down. The no-face guy is just disturbing. Forget the Bat. The Question is nightmare fuel.

I have to say, though, I preferred the Question as a hard-boiled street brawler rather than a Zen kung fu master.

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Re: Jab’s Builds (Catwoman! Black Spider! Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva!)

Post by Thorpocalypse »

Ares wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:16 am If I had it my way, Shiva, Ben Turner and Richard Dragon would all be the top martial artists of the DCU, with Cassandra Cane being the latest person capable of potentially breaking into that tier, but is less capable due to her age and inexperience. But overall these three or four people would be the ones to beat in terms of overall skill. I would put Peter Cannon and the original Judomaster in that tier list as well, but Peter is someone whose legal status is kind of up in the air and Judomaster is barely seen anymore.

To me this would put Shiva, Ben and Richard on the same level as Shang and Danny, though Danny has access to more raw power and outright chi tricks than the rest of the group. I'm a broken record about what kind of martial arts are "allowed" in Marvel and DC, but Shang has actually stepped up his game these days and is a full on bullet catcher now. Really, in some ways Danny should be more akin to Marvel's version of Karate Kid.

Either way, it'd make it to where the actual elite martial artists of the setting are dedicated martial artists, as opposed to Batman or Captain America. Dragon, Danny, Shiva, Shang and Ben should be the types who enter into any given situation with just their martial arts skills and can get out of it just fine.

But yeah, as others have mentioned, her original write-up in DC Heroes was just nuts. She had a higher frickin PL than Val Armor of all people, the guy who gets Pre-Crisis Kryptonians into unbreakable body locks.
I see those tiers pretty much the same way, my problem is always reflecting that in MnM terms in regards to how they're statted. For example, If you have Shiva, Tiger, Dragon, Shang and Fist as the top tier, should they all be +20 unarmed? Or should +20 be reserved for Karate Kid only? Or should they vary between +16 to +20 depending on their advantages? Should they be given All-Out, Accurate, Defensive and Power Attack or should some have some and some not? Where do Cap, Bruce, Slade and DD fit? Should they 1 lower in attack bonus or should Slade and Bruce be 2 lower because of all the other weaponry they have? Should Wonder Woman have a similar attack bonus since she has been called "the greatest melee fighter in the world" by the Batgod (technically written by Dwayne McDuffie ;))? But that would make her like a PL16-18 if you keep her strength high.

I think it's all subjective so I don't get too hung up on it, but it's good discussion.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Catwoman! Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva! The Question!)

Post by catsi563 »

See for me Diana should be the measureing stick when it comes to raw fighting ability and experience with Thor and Hercules on roughly the same tier

then you have the raw martial artist which i agree should be Danny Shang Shiva and Richard dragon who to me is the guy EVERYONE comes to for training of one form or another even Danny and Shang

then you have the guys like Cap and Bats and Logan who combine various martial arts and fighting systems with raw physical ability and experience and a few advantages to be near top tier fighters who can hang with the gods toe to toe

then youve got guys like Matt Dick Black Canary and a few others who fall just shy of the top but could easilly break into it with some more experience training and such

and below them you have the skilled fighters like Punisher, Mockingbird, Hawkeye Question and more who can hang with the big boys to a certian extent but would need years of experience and harsh training to come close
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Catwoman! Black Spider! Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva!)

Post by drkrash »

Ares wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:16 am To me this would put Shiva, Ben and Richard on the same level as Shang and Danny, though Danny has access to more raw power and outright chi tricks than the rest of the group. I'm a broken record about what kind of martial arts are "allowed" in Marvel and DC, but Shang has actually stepped up his game these days and is a full on bullet catcher now. Really, in some ways Danny should be more akin to Marvel's version of Karate Kid.
I've been meaning to ask you what you thought of Danny outright handing the Iron Fist over to Okoye and admitting that he has always been a terrible Iron Fist.

It was so awesome reading Danny's mini-series when he gets to literally just watch as an unpowered nobody who gets a push because she's a black woman use the Iron Fist to defeat a dragon.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Catwoman! Black Spider! Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva!)

Post by Ken »

Ares wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:16 amJudomaster is barely seen anymore.
1) All of the old Charlton heroes fared better when Dick Giordano was alive.
2) Rip Jagger would be around 100 years old now.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Catwoman! Black Spider! Richard Dragon! Lady Shiva!)

Post by Ares »

drkrash wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 10:04 pm
Ares wrote: Sun Oct 10, 2021 4:16 am To me this would put Shiva, Ben and Richard on the same level as Shang and Danny, though Danny has access to more raw power and outright chi tricks than the rest of the group. I'm a broken record about what kind of martial arts are "allowed" in Marvel and DC, but Shang has actually stepped up his game these days and is a full on bullet catcher now. Really, in some ways Danny should be more akin to Marvel's version of Karate Kid.
I've been meaning to ask you what you thought of Danny outright handing the Iron Fist over to Okoye and admitting that he has always been a terrible Iron Fist.

It was so awesome reading Danny's mini-series when he gets to literally just watch as an unpowered nobody who gets a push because she's a black woman use the Iron Fist to defeat a dragon.
Oh I hated that miniseries, since again they couldn't think of anything better for a twist than to have Danny lose the Iron Fist again, plus it canonized Iron Fist: The Living Weapon, which was a crap miniseries I hoped could just be ignored. And it was just weird with all of the dragon killing basically being a reset switch, and of course, Danny giving up the Iron Fist to someone who should have no clue how to use it, let alone use it like an expert. Danny's a fantastic Iron Fist, I don't care what anyone says. Every Iron Fist spent a decade training to be able to wield it, someone like Okoye should have been overwhelmed and had no clue how to use it.

I mean, for f***s sake, killing dragons is what Danny is GOOD at. Its literally part of his origin.

I'd seriously have Danny show up next time and have his Iron Fist at full power. When someone asks how he got it back, he simply says that he's regained the IF so many times that its literally part of his chi now, so any time he "loses" it now, he regains it after about a week, or a day or two if he spends most of that time meditating. And if someone later says "its been completely and totally purged from your system, its gone", I'd again just have it come back and Danny say, "Well, I guess they were wrong".

So yeah, screw that last last Iron Fist series, and screw most of what they've done to Danny since Immortal Iron Fist ended. Larry Hama should be ashamed of himself.
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