Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
FuzzyBoots
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Re: Bushwacker

Post by FuzzyBoots »

Gilliam wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:52 pm When I first saw the word Bushwacker my first thought was that you were building this team.

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Heh, Bushwhacker Luke showed up for last year's International Wrestling Cartel Reloaded event. I won't say he was a great wrestler, but a 74-year-old taking bumps... I respect that. Gangrel and Swoggle were surprise entrants this year.
Skavenger
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Re: The Death-Stalker

Post by Skavenger »

Ares wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:08 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:40 am Image
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THE DEATH-STALKER (Phillip Wallace Sterling, aka The Exterminator, Death's Head II)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Gene Colan (Exterminator), Steve Gerber & Bob Brown (Death-Stalker)
First Appearance: Daredevil #39 (April 1968- Exterminator), Daredevil #113 (Sept. 1974- Death-Stalker)
Role: Altered Villain

Death's Head II... Who Isn't The Guy Called "Death's Head II":
-Then, in a Ghost Rider/Daredevil crossover plotted by Wolfman & Tony Isabella, a new "Death's Head" debuted, replacing Paxton Page. He demanded Karen Page give up her father's scientific secrets, only to reveal his true identity at the end of the arc- this was just Death-Stalker again! The heroes were able to defeat him. A recurring gag by this point was that his "Death Touch" would kill one of his henchmen (one time a scheme completely falls apart immediately when he kills a potential henchman, and this frightens all the others away- the angry villain just teleports away, calling this a loss), and that he was always trying to re-build his T-Ray. He went back to being Death-Stalker again, and faced Daredevil one final time- he accidentally re-materialized into a tombstone (DD had killed the lights, making his enemy fight blind), cutting his body in half. Death-Stalker's dying mother, infuriated at losing her son, had her house converted into a deathtrap, building child-like androids to lure in Daredevil and kill him. DD only barely escaped, and the woman died.
I really dig the 'Pulp-Villain' look he went with later. It's kind of a shame they killed him off, since he could have been a nice addition to DD's regular rogue's gallery.

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I genuinely got confused when Gail Simone was writing Domino, and there's a huge fight against a bunch of Shang-Chi villains, and a guy who looks just like Death-Stalker showed up, and Shang-Chi was focused entirely on him while Domino fought everybody else. I had to Google to find out that it was actually just Midnight Sun in a very similar outfit.
Skavenger
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Re: Nuke

Post by Skavenger »

FuzzyBoots wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 9:13 pm
Ares wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:30 pm Guys like Nuke, the Sentinel Program, the various evil corporations and the like show a problem when writers overuse certain story beats and continue to put their politics into a story. The US government is by no means perfect and has done some really shady stuff throughout its existence. However, I'd argue that as governments go, it's far less evil than most of the ones out there, has done far more good than harm, and as a whole is still one of the best places to live as far as personal liberty and freedom goes.
Eyeh, I'd argue that the other issue is that this is a universe where villains can, and will, become part of the government, such as Number One (who, despite all of the establishing bits, was definitely not Nixon... just ask Marvel). And that's not even getting into the all too real situation where the government, if they employ the supers, are more or less at their mercy. Honestly, I think one of the less realistic aspects of comic books is how little political upheaval there is. You'd expect there to be more "superpowered mutant takes out the President" or "disillusioned teen uses powers to explode in crowded subway" situations, let alone how the more ugly governments would likely either be using supers to oppress their people, or being overthrown by the current Supermanalogue (with the heroes having to decide whether they're good or bad for stepping in when the guy with reality warping powers is using them to unseat the totalitarian leadership of their country, said country being a US ally).

I agree that politics can definitely get ugly in comics, but honestly, it's relatively subdued compared to what realistically might happen.
I mean, off the top of my head, the US Government in Marvel had Not-Nixon kill himself in the Oval Office, funded the creation of Sentinels multiple times, had a charismatic, outspoken bigot who quickly alienated his allies and picked fights with the most famous news organization in the Marvel Universe almost become President before being assassinated (...not touching that one), let a Mephisto-controlled Phil Coulson form and control their "official national team" with the Squadron Supreme, staged at least two incursions into Wakanda that I know of...

It's not as bad as Latveria, and the Canadian government keeps opening up Weapon <blank> programs, but the US Government suffers the same fate as everything else in comics, if it's a small problem, it isn't interesting. People in comics don't just break up with their dates, they either have their former love become a supervillain, or they get killed horribly. Tony Stark doesn't just have a bad day on the stock market, he has to rebuild his company from the ground after losing all his money all the time. Likewise, the US Government doesn't just lose a memo or do a limited test of LSD on soldiers or slip up and shoot one person incorrectly, they cause massive loss of life, create chemical-enhanced monster soldiers, or attempt to bury massive conspiracies about the time Nick Fury tried to overthrow Dr. Doom. EVERYTHING in comics has to be to scale, which just makes a government look bad since "works fine and keeps people safe in the background" doesn't make for good storytelling or really have a 'how do we ramp this up to 11?' mode.
Jabroniville
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Peacekeeper

Post by Jabroniville »

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PEACEKEEPER (Joshua Badham)
Created By:
Gregory Wright & Tom Grindberg
First Appearance: Daredevil #333 (Oct. 1994)
Role: Fightin' Hermit, Heroic Ally

-A complete nobody from the mid-90s "Dark Ages" of Daredevil, Peacekeeper was a former masked vigilante whose life had been destroyed by the job, and was now a hobo who kept getting into unfortunate situations, like being beaten by police for being mistaken for an abductor, and threatened by a building superintendent for repeatedly digging through the trash for food. When Daredevil followed him to his hiding place, he discovered a community of "Undergrounders"- the King of the Sewers (an old one-off threat) pounced an DD beat him, but the crazed population tried to EAT THEM, and Joshua helped DD get away. Then DD ended up fighting the Devourer (an old Mayan creature brought back) and Joshua decided to help him out for real, putting on his old "Peacekeeper" costume. Somehow, the story now involves future-hero Blackwulf AND his enemy the Demolisher, who kills the Devourer and the sewers are nearly blown up by the King, but all the good guys make it out alive. This sounds like a complete mess of a story. After this arc, created by people I've never heard of, Peacekeeper was never seen again.

-Peacekeeper is a generic Two-Fisted Vigilante, and probably well past his prime, given his peak was 20 years earlier and he was now a hobo scrounging in trash for food.
Sidney369
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Turk! Blue Talon! Death-Stalker! Nuke!)

Post by Sidney369 »

You left out Bullet's real name: Bush Cashman. Also, Bushwacker appeared in the Immortal Hulk, having been hired to kill the Hulk. That went the way you'd expect it to.
Always ask before you use someone's Original Character.
Never ever use them without permission. Only Villains do that.
Jabroniville
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Re: Bushwacker

Post by Jabroniville »

Gilliam wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:52 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 6:32 pm
BUSHWACKER (Carl Burbank)
Created By:
Ann Nocenti & Rick Leonardi
When I first saw the word Bushwacker my first thought was that you were building this team.
I think I once used an image of them for Bushwhacker before- I know I used Knobs & Sags to illustrate the Nasty Boys, lol.
Jabroniville
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Bruiser II

Post by Jabroniville »

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BRUISER II (Real Name Unknown)
Created By:
Mark Waid & Marcos Martin
First Appearance: Daredevil #5 (Dec. 2011)
Role: Glory-Seeking Brawler, Jobber Villain
PL 8 (100)
STRENGTH
4/7 STAMINA 5 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Acrobatics 6 (+11)
Athletics 5 (+9/+12)
Expertise (Criminal) 3 (+3)
Intimidation 4 (+5)
Perception 2 (+2)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Chokehold, Evasion, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Defense, Improved Initiative, Ranged Attack 2, Startle, Taunt

Powers:
"Mass Shifting"
"Hits Hard & Resists Damage" Enhanced Advantages 7: Defensive Roll 2, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 2, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Withstand Damage [7]
"Intense Grabs" Enhanced Advantages 1: Improved Hold [1]

"Mass Into Feet" Immunity 6 (Throwing, Grab Effects) Linked to "Concentrated Mass" Features 3: Increased Mass 3 (9) -- [11]
  • AE: "Mass Into Fists/Mass Into Bracing" Enhanced Strength 3 (6)
  • AE: "Shockwave" Affliction 8 (Dodge; Hindered & Vulnerable/Defenseless & Prone) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Line) (Flaws: Instant Recovery, Both Must Be Grounded) (4)
Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Massive Punches +9 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +9

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +5 (+7 Mass Shifting), Fortitude +6, Will +3

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)- Bruiser is so greedy he sells advertising on his costume.

Total: Abilities: 52 / Skills: 20--10 / Advantages: 11 / Powers: 19 / Defenses: 8 (100)

-Bruiser is a pretty one-off comic book villain, created recently for the fantastic Mark Waid run on Daredevil. He's your standard Fighter-For-Hire, but with a unique gimmick- his power is the ability to shift his mass from place to place on his body, effectively giving him the stats of a Powerhouse. This makes him an overwhelming foe for Daredevil (who has only human stats), who gets the snot kicked out of him for a few rounds, unable to throw or hit the guy properly because his mass keeps slipping away from where it should be (so his weight goes into a foot to prevent a throw, and always in the exact place where it's hardest to toss him, or putting all his weight into his fist to make a tremendous impact). The only way DD wins is by using his finely-tuned senses to figure out the exact point where Bruiser's mass is at its peak, and punch that spot- the resulting eruption tears through the guy's skin, and renders him unable to fight.

-Bruiser has actually made more appearances since I last built him- in an X-Men story, he's one of many assassins (including Lady Bullseye, Deadpool and othesrs) sent against an X-team, and he opposes Warpath. Domino uses her luck-shifting powers to allow Warpath to beat him. Then he more or less instantly gets threaded into the ranks of "Recognizable Backgrounder Villains", showing up fighting Miles Morales & Bombshell, Deadpool's group (he tears off Terror Inc.'s arms but is wiped out by Highwayman's truck), and guarding the door at the Bar With No Name, where Sabretooth beats him in order to enter. So now he's a full-on jobber from the looks of things, haha. Old Man Logan even makes jokes about him being knocked out repeatedly. How sad is THAT? Ten years in the game and he's already reduced to a gag.

-Bruiser's powers are effectively just a fancy way to describe a standard Powerhouse with a couple tricks in an Array instead of having them all at once- he can Shockwave, Strike, and is generally a beast in grapples, especially against guys like Matt Murdock. haha, in my older build, I said "for now, with New Villain Stink on him, he's a PL 9.5/10 guy with a +12/+8 semi-Martial Artist set-up" AAAAAAAAAAAAAND now he's been made a full-on Jobber Villain, now handily-beaten by random dudes. Granted Sabretooth & Logan are top-tier bad-ass PL 11st, but still.
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M4C8
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Turk! Blue Talon! Death-Stalker! Nuke!)

Post by M4C8 »

Sidney369 wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:11 am You left out Bullet's real name: Bush Cashman. Also, Bushwacker appeared in the Immortal Hulk, having been hired to kill the Hulk. That went the way you'd expect it to.
Buck Cashman.
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'
Sidney369
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Turk! Blue Talon! Death-Stalker! Nuke!)

Post by Sidney369 »

M4C8 wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 10:37 am
Sidney369 wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 2:11 am You left out Bullet's real name: Bush Cashman. Also, Bushwacker appeared in the Immortal Hulk, having been hired to kill the Hulk. That went the way you'd expect it to.
Buck Cashman.
That's right. I got confused.
Always ask before you use someone's Original Character.
Never ever use them without permission. Only Villains do that.
Jabroniville
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The Matador

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE MATADOR (Manuel Eloganto)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Wally Wood
First Appearance: Daredevil #5 (Dec. 1964)
Role: National Stereotype, Swordfighter
Group Affiliations: The Emissaries of Evil
PL 6 (70)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 (+8)
Athletics 4 (+6)
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Matador) 8 (+8)
Expertise (Thief) 4 (+4)
Perception 4 (+5)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Equipment (Rapier), Fascinate (Deception), Improved Critical (Rapier), Improved Defense, Improved Disarm, Quick Draw, Taunt

Equipment:
"Rapier" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Improved Critical) (3)
"Stupid Red Cape" Affliction 4 (Will; Entranced/Compelled to be a moron and attack THE CAPE) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (2)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Rapier +8 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +3, Fortitude +5, Will +2

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)
Relationship (Family)- Manuel's sister has many children, and he has since given up the criminal life to help raise them.

Total: Abilities: 40 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 8 (70)

-REALLY, Stan? THE MATADOR? While Spider-Man was fighting off the most original Rogues Gallery ever, and the Fantastic Four was handling Cosmic Threat after Cosmic Threat, THIS is what you come up with when Ditko & Kirby aren't around to help out? Hard to blame Stan too much, though- he was writing so many books that one was BOUND to be the one where all the piece of crap ideas fell into, and that was most-certainly Daredevil (which had that role for YEARS). The Matador was an early foe, but got disrespected down to a minor threat REALLY quickly, acting like a joke even in the '60s, like when Electro recruited him into his Emissaries of Evil. After only a couple appearances (by the end, DD could one-punch him) he largely vanished. He temporarily teamed up with the Man-Bull, but their natures got the better of them because really, how can you have a guy named the MAN-BULL and a guy named THE MATADOR in your Rogues Gallery and not have them fight at least once?

-Later, he's seen at the Bar With No Name along with several cow-themed characters (Minotaur, Toro Rojo, Man-Bull shockingly, and even BOVA, which is way out of character), but helps out Daredevil when he's fighting the Jester... who knocks Matador out with one shot.

-He was was gone for literally seventeen years until Mark Gruenwald pulled him out of the woodwork as a retired villain targetted by a new Scourge. The new Scourge (a girl) couldn't bring herself to kill the man (who was by this point just helping his sister raise her menagerie of children), and fled. We next saw him being controlled by The Ringmaster, and another time in at another Bar With No Name, presumably back to being a villain. But now he's just a gag character. Serves him right- he's arguably one of Marvel's stupidest characters ever. I mean, this guy threatened Daredevil- a Blind man with a radar sense- by putting A CAPE OVER HIS HEAD and confusing him. Granted, back then nobody knew his deal. Much like a few other guys, like Stilt-Man and the Shocker, he has a lot more value as a "Joke Villain" who deliberately sucks than as someone the writers plan on making credible.

-I was gonna make him PL 7, but then I realized that even THAT was too good for this absolute loser. PL 6 puts him akin to a guy who could challenge Rookie Daredevil (maybe a PL 7-8), and he's in-line with The Enforcers, another group of joke Mooks who aren't much against a real hero. An excellent matador, he's great against cow-themed guys (of which there are actually quite a few), and good with his sword, but only to a +8 level- he's nowhere close to even El Aguila types, or even what a normal PC hero could do with his normal attacks. The Matador just sucks, which is how it should be.
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Blue Talon! Death-Stalker! Nuke! Bushwacker!)

Post by Ares »

Honestly, the Matador gimmick would work a lot better for a hero than a villain. Think about it. You've got the whole Zorro/Swashbuckling swordfighter schtick to start with, but think about what bull fighting entails. In theory, it's about a brave and dashing man going fight a much more powerful animal that will charge at him, and he can only survive by using his skill to evade the attack, strike, and then evade again, wearing the bull down until he can finish it off. While the realities often differ from the theory (many countries view bull fighting as cruel, and how capable the animal actually is before the fight varies from place to place), the concept is actually sound for a superhero.

I mean, picture what folks like Spider-Man and Daredevil do against guys like the Rhino and Juggernaut, and you've basically got the superhero equivalent of a bullfighter. So the Matador as a hero would honestly work a lot better. Hell, you could even have him become a hero after bull fighting was outlawed and he wanted to test his skills against villains, and this time actually do some good.
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Jabroniville
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The Man-Bull

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE MAN-BULL (William Taurens)
Created By:
Gerry Conway & Gary Friedrich
First Appearance: Daredevil #78 (July 1971)
Role: Dumb Brute, Animalistic Villain
Group Affiliations: The Frightful Four, The Death Squad
PL 8 (80)
STRENGTH
9 STAMINA 8 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -1 AWARENESS -1 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+7)
Intimidation 8 (+7)
Perception 5 (+4)
Expertise (Survival) 5 (+4)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Gore), Improved Grab, Power Attack, Startle

Powers:
"Bull Physiology"
Protection 2 [2]
"Animal Senses" Senses 1 (Low-Light Vision) [1]

"Gore! Gore! Gore!"
"Horns" Strength-Damage +2 (Extras: Penetrating 6) [8]
"Unstoppable Charge" Enhanced Strength 2 (Flaws: Limited to Pushing) [2]
Speed 2 (8 mph) [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Gore! +5 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +10, Fortitude +8, Will +2

Complications:
Reputation (Dumb Thug)- The Man-Bull is stupid even by animal-based villain standards.
Prejudice (Obvious Super-Villain)- The Man-Bull is enormous, hairy and has giant horns on his head, and could not pass for any human other than Rosie O'Donnell.
Disabled/Involuntary Transformation (Dumb Mute)- Occasionally, William Taurens' mutations enhance themselves, resulting in a snorting, grunting buffoon who is completey unable to speak. This will also reduce his Intelligence & Presence to -3. Sometimes he has greater strength, and sometimes a bit lesser- his physical stats will thus shift entirely, though he's pretty much always PL 8.

Total: Abilities: 40 / Skills: 20--10 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 15 / Defenses: 9 (80)

-Some villains only KINDA suck, but this guy REALLY sucks. Basically a do-nothing Animal-Themed villain (lotsa those in comics already), the Man-Bull was a Daredevil foe at first, but basically got thrown into the mix of "random henchman villain" for the rest of the Marvel Universe to use, often coming up against Spider-Man or whomever else needed a big dumb brick to pound on. He's one of those guys who's so minor that writers can't keep straight whether he can even TALK or not- much like Tiger Shark, he varies between appearances. He's handy for any story where you need a super-powered Big Dumb Goon but don't want to have to worry about anything like "Backstory" or "Characterization"- he's just a big stupid distinctive guy. You need those sometimes, really.

-The Man-Bull debuted in the '70s, having been empowered by Mister Kline, who wanted a guinea pig for a serum he'd developed. Man-Bull fought Daredevil, but was tossed into a wall and beaten. Turning back to normal, he was arrested. Shortly thereafter, an ally snuck into more serum into his jail cell, and he became the Man-Bull permanently. He went on to become a recurring foe, but almost immediately moved on from fighting DD and faced The Cat, Iron Man (alongside the Black Lama's group) and more. He eventually turned savage, dropping the ability to speak and growing a tail- here, he fought the Grey Hulk, then joined a one-shot team of the Frightful Four to face Spider-Man in a Canadian giveaway comic set around bicycle safety at the Calgary Stampede. Man-Bull is the one chosen to deal with Spider-Man, mostly being avoided, but the Web-Slinger has trouble actually hurting him.

-After this, the character just becomes "One Of Those Guys"- a Journeyman Villain popping up everywhere, like at a Villains Anonymous meeting, or at a large group of guys hired to steal something. Curiously, he's pretty well never given characterization, even in issues where he re-learns how to talk. Like... we never learn ANYTHING about William Taurens- he's just some goon. In one issue, he helps a de-powered Hercules face Hecate & Kyknos- later he's in a prison riot, and possibly fatally-shot by the Punisher. He's made to think he's the actual Minotaur by some guy named "The Emerald Warlock", but the Scarlet Witch agrees to help him. Most hilariously, despite being portrayed as an idiot for years, it's been revealed in The Superior Foes of Spider-Man that he's actually a bit of a Ladies Man, and seduced the wife of a guy The Owl was trying to threaten and blackmail when he was supposed to be guarding her- the Owl showed the guy the footage of said "guarding" and things went downhill ("The lesson is- if you want to get information out of someone, don't show him a video of his wife ****ing a bull."). He was thought killed in a "Kraven" story-arc in Spidey's book, but this was only mentioned off-hand by the Toad- he naturally turned up alive shortly afterwards. He has only fought Daredevil once in the past couple of decades, I think.

-Just your average Powerhouse build, shrank down to under-pointed PL 8 quality. The Man-Bull's got a pretty dangerous Gore attack, some speed, and a nigh-unstoppable charge, but he's so inaccurate that guys like Spider-Man (and I've seen this personally in the Chaos in Calgary comic I got Turbine & the Right-Riders from) can basically leap around him all day and make fun of him. I left him with the ability to speak, but he occasionally loses even THAT, becoming just an animal. Curiously,
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Re: Nuke

Post by drkrash »

Ares wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:30 pm Guys like Nuke, the Sentinel Program, the various evil corporations and the like show a problem when writers overuse certain story beats and continue to put their politics into a story. The US government is by no means perfect and has done some really shady stuff throughout its existence. However, I'd argue that as governments go, it's far less evil than most of the ones out there, has done far more good than harm, and as a whole is still one of the best places to live as far as personal liberty and freedom goes.

The problem with a lot of comic writers is that they frequently air their beefs with the government in story without having much in the way of positive presentation to balance it out. As a result, the Marvel USA government can come off as looking like its run by a cabal of supervillains already, making you wonder if the heroes honestly shouldn't rebel against said government and try to restore something more honest. Same thing with big corporations serving as villains, they've almost gotten overused at a certain point.

While villains that can serve as analogies or examples of real world evils are important, part of me wishes we could just get more stories about actual supervillains, criminal masterminds and the like. Or, God forbid, show the government and corporations in a positive light.
Yeah, I agree with all this, Ares. In my homebrew, I actually established that the government (and my SHIELD expy) is fundamentally "good," even though there are shady elements in it from time to time.

Captain America in particular is so hard to read now even when it isn't beating a progressive drum hard, because they just don't let Cap do ANYTHING that isn't overtly political. As if that's the only story to tell with the character. Give me back Gruenwald's "adventure Cap" days, where he just had superhero adventures against (often lame-o) supervillains.
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Jabroniville
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Re: Nuke

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 5:30 pm Guys like Nuke, the Sentinel Program, the various evil corporations and the like show a problem when writers overuse certain story beats and continue to put their politics into a story. The US government is by no means perfect and has done some really shady stuff throughout its existence. However, I'd argue that as governments go, it's far less evil than most of the ones out there, has done far more good than harm, and as a whole is still one of the best places to live as far as personal liberty and freedom goes.

The problem with a lot of comic writers is that they frequently air their beefs with the government in story without having much in the way of positive presentation to balance it out. As a result, the Marvel USA government can come off as looking like its run by a cabal of supervillains already, making you wonder if the heroes honestly shouldn't rebel against said government and try to restore something more honest. Same thing with big corporations serving as villains, they've almost gotten overused at a certain point.

While villains that can serve as analogies or examples of real world evils are important, part of me wishes we could just get more stories about actual supervillains, criminal masterminds and the like. Or, God forbid, show the government and corporations in a positive light.
Nuke was created barely ten years after the Watergate Scandal broke, and... well, the whole Nixon era. Also that was the year the Iran/Contra scandal broke. The Tuskeegee Syphilis Experiment was revealed to the public in 1972. That kind of stuff cast a HUGE shadow over the government. That a ton of these writers were hippies and anti-authoritarian types at the best of times only made this worse. It's really no surprise that the 1970s-90s led to a HUGE amount of "The Government Is Actually Evil" storytelling. Hell, I'm shocked that the suicide of Number One of the Secret Empire was as bad as it got.
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Re: Nuke

Post by Jabroniville »

drkrash wrote: Tue Feb 08, 2022 11:54 pm
Yeah, I agree with all this, Ares. In my homebrew, I actually established that the government (and my SHIELD expy) is fundamentally "good," even though there are shady elements in it from time to time.

Captain America in particular is so hard to read now even when it isn't beating a progressive drum hard, because they just don't let Cap do ANYTHING that isn't overtly political. As if that's the only story to tell with the character. Give me back Gruenwald's "adventure Cap" days, where he just had superhero adventures against (often lame-o) supervillains.
Of course, Gruenwald also put the Red Skull in a deep position within the US government and had Captain America walk away from the job rather than do the explicit work of said government, which turned out to be the 100% correct decision, lol. The commission was depicted as close-minded, brusque, and quite amoral.

Hell, Valerie Cooper might be the most "positive" government figure at Marvel, and her personality type may be best described as "Permanent Stick Up The Ass". It's not for nothing that the stand-in for the US government in Marvel is H.P. Gyrich- a bigoted, humorless, obstructionist pain in the ass.
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