Jab’s Builds! (Whomp 'Em! Plumbers Don't Wear Ties! ToeJam & Earl!)

[Shock]

They also put Norman Osborn in charge of SHIELD. Kinda hard to trust anyone willing to go there

[drkrash]

Of course, Gruenwald also put the Red Skull in a deep position within the US government and had Captain America walk away from the job rather than do the explicit work of said government, which turned out to be the 100% correct decision, lol. The commission was depicted as close-minded, brusque, and quite amoral.

Hell, Valerie Cooper might be the most "positive" government figure at Marvel, and her personality type may be best described as "Permanent Stick Up The Ass". It's not for nothing that the stand-in for the US government in Marvel is H.P. Gyrich- a bigoted, humorless, obstructionist pain in the ass.

OK. Except that story lasted a year (maybe?) and the only thing "political" about it was, "You have to do what we want," without ever making a specific political statement. The US government could have been a corporation without the story changing at all.

[Jabroniville]

Given what an absolute clown this guy used to look like, it's impressive they've renovated him as much as they have.

THE OWL (Leland Owlsley)
Created By: Stan Lee & Joe Orlando
First Appearance: Daredevil #3 (Aug. 1964)
Role: Jobber Villain Turned Nearly-Legitimate Crimeboss, Kingpin Lite
Group Affiliations: The New York Underworld
PL 9 (147)
STRENGTH 7 STAMINA 7 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 3 (+7)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+11)
Deception 9 (+12)
Expertise (Business) 10 (+14)
Expertise (Current Events) 4 (+8)
Expertise (Crimeboss) 8 (+12)
Insight 6 (+10)
Intimidation 6 (+9)
Investigation 5 (+8)
Perception 7 (+11)
Persuasion 5 (+8)
Stealth 2 (+6)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Equipment (Claws), Fast Grab, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Ranged Attack 3, Startle

Powers:
"Not-Actually-A-Mutant Powers: Owl Physiology"
Flight 4 (30 mph) (Flaws: Gliding) [4]
Leaping 1 (15 feet) [1]
"Animal Senses" Senses 3 (Extended, Ultra & Low-Light Vision) [3]
"Owl Ear Tufts" Senses 2 (Accurate Hearing) [2]
Features 1: Can Turn Head 180 Degrees [1]

Equipment:
"Claws" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Penetrating 3) (4)
"Glider Wings" Features 1: Allows Non-Gliding Uses of Air-Acrobatics (1)

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Claws +10 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +7, Fortitude +7, Will +7

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)
Enemy (Daredevil)
Reputation (Unhinged Lunatic)- The Owl is pretty normal most of the time, but willingly turned himself into a big owl-monster, and is known to eat live mice with 600-year old wine.
Rivalry (Other Crimebosses)- The Owl is either the ally or enemy of people like Wilson Fisk, Hammerhead and Silvermane.

Total: Abilities: 84 / Skills: 66--33 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 11 / Defenses: 11 (147)

The Owl- Silver Age Goof to Crime-Boss:
-The Owl is an interesting situation where a complete garbage 1960s throwaway villain can be utterly revamped into an entirely new thing, thus rescuing an old concept... but I still kinda think he sucks. I mean, he's just Kingpin Lite in the same universe as The Kingpin! Just use the Kingpin!

-So The Owl debuts as the THIRD villain Daredevil fights, and is pretty goofy- just a sign that Stan was not putting his best into this book (to be fair, he was writing ALL OF THEM, pretty much). He was a successful financier, "The Owl of Wall Street", but was exposed as a tax evader and crooked business man- he then took up shop as a crimelord. And he got rich to the point where he literally invested in a serum that could give him flight powers (holy shit! Why not SELL THAT?!?). He captured Daredevil and planned to execute him in front of the other crime bosses to prove himself, but DD escaped and the Owl fled, where he was ignominiously captured by police. He quickly returned, trying to punish those who'd imprisoned him last time, but he & DD fought to a draw. He disappeared until the '70s, where Mister Kline broke him out of prison and hired him to kill DD- he nearly succeeded, but the Black Widow entered the series and helped the hero win. Next, he fought The Cat (the future Tigra) during a scheme to drain human brains of knowledge, then he was back to DD. He temporarily lost the use of his legs, then needed a pacemaker for his heart. He opposed Doctor Octopus as an upstart crimelord and lost in the pages of Spider-Man. In a weird Alpha Flight story, he and other animal-themed villains (Asp, Scorpion and... Nekra? Well kinda maybe a bat? I dunno) were summoned to Winnipeg by a sorcerer and were beaten by Alpha & Gamma Flights.

-Fun story: When X-Factor debuted in the early 1980s, the initial plan of the villain behind everything was going to be THE OWL, revamped and taken seriously, since he wasn't being used in Daredevil anymore. But Bob Layton was told "No" and he had to create another guy instead- a total newbie you might have heard of named "Apocalypse". Yeah, THIS guy as Apocalypse... think about how different the X-Books might've been.

The Owl Gets Revamped:
-So in short, The Owl was now a glorified Journeyman Villain, and a wannabe crimeboss. However, he slowly grew more mutated with time, and more sinister- he would often go to jail, but his attempts to take Wilson Fisk's place became more prominent as time went on. Eventually, it was just kind of "Accepted" in the superhero community that he was the #2. However, it was more like we were just TOLD that he was the big name, because in the actual comics, he's getting badly beaten by Daredevil for taunting the hero over Foggy Nelson's death (it was faked but DD didn't know that), shot by the Hood for not asking "permission" to do something, etc. He's just "part of the crimelords" now, sometimes seen with Fisk and the others, sometimes having mooks join the Goblin Nation or captured by Taskmaster & Black Ant alongside all the animal-themed villains or whatever. At least he was treated seriously in The Superior Foes of Spider-Man, as a fearsome guy working with Boomerang to retrieve a painting of Doctor Doom with a single tear running down his face.

-In any case, he's pretty much just "the guy who isn't the Kingpin but does Kingpin-like things"- a pretty strong example of "Mongul Syndrome" since he's obviously a worse character in every way. Like, first of all, the Kingpin isn't a great character because he's POWERFUL or a big crime boss, he's a great character because he's a GREAT CHARACTER. Wilson Fisk has NUANCE. He believes there's an order to things- he's greedy and will kill to get what he wants, but he's not just some low-rent madman. He doesn't hide out in secret bases- he lives in a giant skyscraper in central Manhattan. He has conversations between major superheroes as equals. He has a wife he adores (and periodically would give up crime for) and a son he doted on but now wants him dead. He came up from nothing and gets his hands dirty. He's even a study in contrasts- a big fat-looking guy who is a giant bad-ass who can physically beat down even master martial artists and hand-to-hand guys like Daredevil and Captain America. The Owl is just some deformed dickhead who we're simply "told" is some smart, devious master criminal when even the writers barely bother to pretend that's true.

The Owl's Abilities:
-Basically a really expensive, smart, streetwise PL 9, The Owl is essentially Kingpin-Lite in almost every way, being just a notch below him in everything but raw power, and he's not quite as good a fighter, preferring to do things behind-the-scenes. Nonetheless, he's not to be trifled with, and is strong enough to put a major dent in Daredevil's activities, even though he's a PL lower. And apparently he's not a mutant, despite some reports that he was. Not sure why it matters.

[Shock]

Poor Owl. At least his hair got to be the inspiration for Wolverine

[Jabroniville]

KAREN PAGE (aka Paige Angel)
Created By: Stan Lee & Bill Everett
First Appearance: Daredevil #1 (April 1964)
Role: Crazy Girlfriend #1, Broken Bird
Group Affiliations: Some Porn Studio, Nelson & Murdock's Law Firm
PL 0 (20), PL 2 (20) Saves
STRENGTH 0 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 1 (+4, +6 Attractive)
Expertise (Secretary) 2 (+4)
Expertise (Actress) 1 (+4)
Expertise (Radio Announcer) 1 (+3)
Expertise (Streetwise) 2 (+4)
Expertise (Porn Star) 1 (+3)

Advantages:
Attractive

Offense:
Unarmed +0 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +0 (DC 10), Parry +0 (DC 10), Toughness +0, Fortitude +2, Will +2

Complications:
Relationship (Matt Murdock- Daredevil)- Karen's first real life was the shy, taciturn lawyer.
Relationship (Mike Murdock)- Matt, in order to conceal his identity as Daredevil, created a fictional twin brother- Mike. The fun-loving guy ALSO became an obsession of Karen's.
Relationship (Dr. Paxton Page- Father)- Karen's father assumed the guise of Death's Head (not the Cyborg Freelance Peace Officer, yes?).
Addiction (Heroin)- Karen somehow gets hooked on heroin at some point, and becomes a junkie, appearing in pornographic films to pay for her habit.
Quirk (Unlucky)- Karen has been cheated on, addicted to heroin, made to believe that she had AIDS, and then killed by Bullseye. All because Daredevil has the same Sexually-Transmitted Horrible-Fate problem that Namor has.

Total: Abilities: 12 / Skills: 8--4 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 3 (20)

Karen Page- '60s Love Interest to Tragic Romance:
-Of all the 1960s Love Interests, the one with the worst luck is Karen Page. And when you consider that lists includes Gwen Stacy & Jean Loring, that's saying something. Poor Karen started out as your standard Marvel Love Interest, as Stan Lee populated his books with high-haired, curvaceous, pretty girls who generally acted with a combination of subserviance and mercurial temper (a contemporary says that Stan just wrote his "ideal woman"- his own wife). Karen was of course the secretary to Matt Murdock & Foggy Nelson at their upstart law firm- typically, the stories would feature Karen mooning over Matt Murdock, while Foggy in turn mooned over her- a classic Love Triangle but with Foggy as the lovelorn dope. However, when Matt shows her the wisecracking part of his personality via a pretend "twin brother", Mike Murdock (oh jeez), she is equally charmed and thus torn. A 1969 comic would include the revelation that her father Paxton is an evil scientist/super-villain known as Death's Head- he sacrifices himself to save DD & Karen from a trap he'd laid for Daredevil. This action, however, revealed to Karen that Matt & Daredevil were the same man.

-Their relationship fell apart after that- Karen constantly fears for Matt's safety, but he refuses to give up fighting crime. She temporarily gains a friend in Debbie Harris (Foggy's fiancee), but she ended up leaving the firm to become an actress, leaving the Daredevil book in 1972, eight years after it began. She left the book for a long time, even joining Johnny Blaze's supporting cast in 1975 as a performer in a film with Ghost Rider himself! This run lasts two whole years, and a showing in Marvel Two-In-One was her only appearance over the next seven years.

-Then, in one of the darkest turns for a 1960s character, Karen reappears in Matt's life, addicted to heroin and appearing in PORNO MOVIES. I probably don't have to tell you who was writing at the time, but this is BEFORE that kind of thing was associated so hard with Frank Miller. But it was a huge reveal, and doubly so when she sold Daredevil's SECRET IDENTITY to a drug dealer, which he immediately sells to The Kingpin. This sets off the huge Born Again story arc, in which the Kingpin destroys Matt's life. She beats the habit and reunites with a fairly forgiving Matt, even becoming a bigger part of his vigilante life when Ann Nocenti took over the book, but he soon cheats on her with Typhoid Mary, and she abandons him, psychologically lost. She becomes an anti-pornography activist (BOOOOOO!!!), aiding DD & Black Widow on a couple of occasions, and reluctantly begins dating Matt again. She becomes a radio host named "Paige Angel" as well, but finds herself too dependent on Matt, and leaves him to become a talk show host in Los Angeles. By this point, various issues has started up- Matt consistently had cooler, more exciting girlfriends than Karen (Black Widow, Elektra, Typhoid Mary), all extreme bad girls, while she was just kind of a dependent mess who writers just started attaching bad things to.

Karen Gets Killed:
-Then, infamously, she reappears years later in Kevin Smith's Daredevil run, believing that she's infected with AIDS (a fake-out by Mysterio)- horrified, she shocks Matt with this info, but the pair are then attacked by Bullseye- in a heroic last moment, Karen leaps in front of a billy club aimed at DD's head, which impales her in the heart and kills her. This is one of the big cap-offs of Kevin's uber-run that was incredibly flashy and did amazing sales, helping put Marvel back on a winning track. But of course today comes off as a pretty callous disposal of a once-important character. But at least that story was GOOD- I bet you if Smith hadn't have done it, a worse writer would have five years later and we'd still be groaning about how stupid it was.

-Karen, as a Female Love Interest in THE grittiest of all Big Two comic books (one bearing FRANK MILLER'S touch, no less), was not gonna have a lot of luck. But WOW- that is some rough stuff. Heroin, porn, AIDS and Death By Bullseye is a pretty bad combination. She makes what happened to Kyle Rayner's girlfriend look like the ending of Cinderella, to a point that I just feel is a bit over-the-top. It's a bad example of what can happen when one too many writers all come up with the same idea of "I know- let's have something bad happen to KAREN!" and just dogpile the stuff onto her- it's arguably for the BEST that Kevin Smith offed her, because otherwise she'd have probably shown up two or three more times, with OTHER horrible fates befalling her!

Karen's Abilities:
-Karen is your Standard Bystander, with a solid Fortitude Save owing to her surviving a drug addiction (heroin is a BITCH of a drug- my cop friend tells me stories about the "Oxycontin Kids" that got hooked once Oxy became unsnortable, and most of them end up dead within a few years), but a fairly poor Will Save, owing to... well, the drug thing. She had the Will to KICK IT, which is pretty rare (heroin withdrawal is one of the most horrible things imaginable- you feel like your body is on fire, you barf and crap constantly, and your muscles feel like death. For MONTHS. And all you need to fix it is a little puff), but she still had the lack of Insight to get hooked on it in the first place.

[Davies]

But at least that story was GOOD- I bet you if Smith hadn't have done it, a worse writer would have five years later and we'd still be groaning about how stupid it was.

Given what happened to Heather and later Glorianna before Karen's end, it's hard to argue with this.

[Jabroniville]

But at least that story was GOOD- I bet you if Smith hadn't have done it, a worse writer would have five years later and we'd still be groaning about how stupid it was.

Given what happened to Heather and later Glorianna before Karen's end, it's hard to argue with this.

I hadn’t learned their fates (or even heard of the latter) before starting this set. Good LORD, yes. They’ll be the next up, just to put a fine point on how ridiculous this got when you add it all together, lol.

[bsdigitalq]

The funny thing about the Owl is that the Bat books have demonstrated that owl-themed supervillains can work, you just need to put a little work into it. Which, well, doesn't look to be the case here. Shame. Owl could be useful as a kind of criminal "beggar king" instead of just being this weird Kingpin-wannabe.

[Ares]

Really, the Owl should have been the one of the Kingpin's "Quirky Mini-Bosses". I mean, the Kingpin is supposed to basically run most of the crime along the entire EAST COAST of the USA. That's a big job, so it's expected he'd have a squad of trusted lieutenants that would serve as "barons" to him across multiple locations. And given how cut throat the super crime is in New York, it'd be expected that there would be a local squad of such people who rule over a territory and answer to him. Thus the Owl could have been someone who was involved in his own plots, but ultimately answered to the Kingpin, making him someone the heroes fought more regularly, saving the Kingpin fights for the big epic moments.

It could lead to a fun moment where all of the local lords team up for some mission, and you similarly get a team of street level heroes to fight them. You see this kind of thing in video games all the time for a reason.

[EternalPhoenix]

Really, the Owl should have been the one of the Kingpin's "Quirky Mini-Bosses". I mean, the Kingpin is supposed to basically run most of the crime along the entire EAST COAST of the USA. That's a big job, so it's expected he'd have a squad of trusted lieutenants that would serve as "barons" to him across multiple locations. And given how cut throat the super crime is in New York, it'd be expected that there would be a local squad of such people who rule over a territory and answer to him. Thus the Owl could have been someone who was involved in his own plots, but ultimately answered to the Kingpin, making him someone the heroes fought more regularly, saving the Kingpin fights for the big epic moments.

It could lead to a fun moment where all of the local lords team up for some mission, and you similarly get a team of street level heroes to fight them. You see this kind of thing in video games all the time for a reason.

It gives a sense of progression. Working their way up to the big dog. And then you get that big battle royale, but it's not over after that. Becaue the Kingpin is still out there, and probably out for their blood.

[Jabroniville]

HEATHER GLENN
Created By: Marv Wolfman & Bob Brown
First Appearance: Daredevil #126 (July 1975)
Role: Forgotten Girlfriend, Another Dead Matt Girlfriend

-Wow, Heather Glenn was around for TEN YEARS? That's as shockingly long time for a DD girlfriend. Created by Marv Wolfman, she was a peppy, energetic socialite- a big contrast to bookish, laid-back Matt Murdock, and I think that worked for some fun. During the "Frank Miller Years" she was actually kept on, but Matt seemed like kind of an absentee boyfriend- he was more obsessed with the Elektra thing for a while, plus all his heroic stuff- Heather decided to go out for a night on the town and flirt with others (When every guy around suggests they all go out for an evening, she says "Easy boys- I'm a flirt, not a gymnast"), but found it kind of empty and missed Matt, so went back to him. Tragedy quickly befell them when Heather's father, who had been bankrolling Matt's "Legal Storefront Clinic" was manipulated by the Purple Man into doing criminal stuff, and committed suicide during the investigation despite Matt's best efforts to keep him clear. Heather blamed Matt/DD for this, knowing they were the same man.

-Later, Matt closed down her business after her inexperience caused it to be run by criminals- she accused him of wrecking the business so she wouldn't have a "distraction" in their relationship. Eventually, Heather became an alcoholic, and Matt ended their relationship. She briefly dated Tony Stark, who was ALSO an alcoholic at the time, and this was a mess. Eventually, Foggy & Black Widow, believing their relationship to be the cause of Matt's stress, wrote FAKE BREAKUP NOTES TO THEM (the FUUUUUU---??), but this caused a despondent Heather to commit suicide. Matt walked in on her hanging body- "A dead body smells a certain way. So I know." This ends up being Yet Another Matt Heartbreak (but actually before Karen or Matt's other wife die), and even though Heather would be largely forgotten despite being around for a decade, she'd cast a bit of a shadow, as this would often be pointed out by others.

[Jabroniville]

GLORIANNA O'BREEN
Created By: Denny O'Neil & William Johnson
First Appearance: Daredevil #205 (April 1984)
Role: Another Dead Matt Murdock Ex
Group Affiliations: None

-Glori O'Breen is a character I've never heard of, and is from the odd mid-80s period- she appeared in 25 issues over about four years, which is a pretty solid run, but was ultimately forgotten. Still dead, though! She was initially introduced as Debbie Harris's niece and came to live with Foggy & Debbie, when her father, an IRA operative, was targetted by others. Along the way, she grew increasingly closer to Matt Murdock. Her dad was eventually killed, and Glori began working as "The Old Woman" resettling former IRA agents in the U.S. (O'Neil would DEFINITELY be sympathetic to the IRA- a known terrorist organization, mind you- in this situation). But her father's killer, the Gael, came for her, requiring Daredevil to save her. However, as soon as Frank Miller came back on the book she ended up falling for FOGGY (now the ex of her aunt) instead, the two kissing even after Foggy told tales of Matt's heroism in college. A photographer by trade, she covers Nuke's rampage in Manhattan but disappears from the book shortly, taking a couple years off before popping up in the "Ann Nocenti Years", still Foggy's girlfriend. However, she was only there for a little bit (hiding a photo she took of a case to protect Foggy, who was working for the company involved) before completely disappearing. A full forty issues later, it's revealed off-panel that she left Foggy for some reason.

-Aaaaaaaaaaand then in D.G. Chichester's run as "Alan Smithee" (using a pseudonym because he was pissy about being taken off the book), he kills off Glorianna casually, as she stumbles upon a crime scene of Kruel's- he throws her out of a skylight, and she falls to her death, a fantasy of Daredevil rescuing her flashing before her eyes before she hits the pavement. The Marvunapp writer is DISGUSTED by this, finding it another useless "Violence against women" thing. As Glori was a developed, if discarded, character and Kruel just some nobody, it felt especially pointless, and mostly served as some kind of "cleaning up loose ends" and killing yet another DD ex. I mean, it seems like Ann was so bored by this character (who, to be fair, has a weird history- seems like Miller & co. couldn't ignore the IRA links fast enough) she just forgot about her entirely, but still.

[Ares]

Really, the Owl should have been the one of the Kingpin's "Quirky Mini-Bosses". I mean, the Kingpin is supposed to basically run most of the crime along the entire EAST COAST of the USA. That's a big job, so it's expected he'd have a squad of trusted lieutenants that would serve as "barons" to him across multiple locations. And given how cut throat the super crime is in New York, it'd be expected that there would be a local squad of such people who rule over a territory and answer to him. Thus the Owl could have been someone who was involved in his own plots, but ultimately answered to the Kingpin, making him someone the heroes fought more regularly, saving the Kingpin fights for the big epic moments.

It could lead to a fun moment where all of the local lords team up for some mission, and you similarly get a team of street level heroes to fight them. You see this kind of thing in video games all the time for a reason.

It gives a sense of progression. Working their way up to the big dog. And then you get that big battle royale, but it's not over after that. Becaue the Kingpin is still out there, and probably out for their blood.

Jab referred to guys like The Owl as suffering from "Mongul Syndrome", where you have a guy who is meant to play a particular role (galactic conqueror, crime boss) but there's clearly a more well known and awesome version of that archetype around; ie Darkseid > Mongul, Kingpin > Owl.

My thinking is that Mongul syndrome actually isn't a bad thing, it's just used improperly. What should happen is that Mongul should be the guy the high powered heroes stop a couple of times a year, given he's a Superman-level powerhouse with essentially his own Death Star and an army of mooks. If you want to give your hero a good showing against that kind of opponent, Mongul is a solid choice. And then when Darkseid shows up once a year or every couple of years, his presence means more because he isn't being overused. Likewise if you have the Owl be the guy Daredevil and Spider-Man encounter on a more regular basis, while still getting to have conversations with the Kingpin, then when they actually fight the Kingpin personally, it feels more epic.

Because by having Darkseid get his eyes bruised shut by Superman or having the Kingpin lose and regain his criminal empire over and over again, it just diminishes the menace those villains are supposed to have.

[greycrusader]

Daredevil REALLY has the worst Rogues Gallery of any long-running Marvel hero; yes, there are other semi-important characters (Capt. Marvel/Ms. Marvel, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Nova) with even worse villains, but their series were either short-lived or sporadic. DD has been a solo star since the 1960s, and the book has only featured a handful of non-lame bad guys (Bullseye and Elektra are the big two, along with Death-Stalker, whose death should be respected, because it was a a really good arc). Aside from the three mentioned in the parentheses, there's MAYBE the original Gladiator, Typhoid Mary, and ...yeah, I can't think of any others, though I haven't followed the title in years, admittedly. Obviously the Kingpin is the real star player, and he does make more sense with Daredevil then Spider-Man, who would annihilate Fisk if he ever let loose.

And the treatment of the women in the book...yeah, sometimes poor treatment of female characters in comics is hard to deny; I mean, in the case of Daredevil, they all seem to go through the humiliation conga before getting killed off or put on a bus for good.

All my best.

[Ares]

I agree that Death-Stalker's death should be respected, but at the same time it might be possible to do that and still keep him around. Like he becomes and actual ghost or makes a deal with Mephisto or some such and now has that much more of a reason to go after Matt since Matt was involved in his death.