Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

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Shock
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Johnny & Jakeem Thunder! Air Wave! Hawkman!)

Post by Shock »

It was the funniest thing when Hawkman was in the middle of his big push and in Superman/Batman he used the Claw of Horus which "draw their strength from the Earth's magnetic core itself, meaning that they contain energy equal to the entire planet." Just so he could take down Superman. I've never seen a more blatant case of "writer's favorite character pulls extreme power out of his ass".
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Ken
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Re: The Golden Age Hawkman

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:55 am Image

HAWKMAN II (Katar Hol)- Silver/Bronze Age
Created By:
Gardner Fox & Joe Kubert
Fixed that for you. As you said, Hawkman is confusing.
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Ken
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Johnny & Jakeem Thunder! Air Wave! Hawkman!)

Post by Ken »

Shock wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:09 amIt was the funniest thing when Hawkman was in the middle of his big push and in Superman/Batman he used the Claw of Horus which "draw their strength from the Earth's magnetic core itself, meaning that they contain energy equal to the entire planet." Just so he could take down Superman. I've never seen a more blatant case of "writer's favorite character pulls extreme power out of his ass".
Do you recall that the Claw of Horus was introduced in the pages of JSA, not Superman/Batman?
Image

How about that Carter and Kendra used it to beat a cosmic level baddy who was bitch slapping Black Adam around?
Image

Loeb didn't have Hawkman "pull an extreme power out of his ass". Loeb perhaps didn't fully understand the extreme gimmick that Johns and Goyer had invented, and perhaps had Hawkman use it in a way we hadn't seen precisely before. But hey, that's why the game allows power stunting. And Hawkman certainly wasn't Loeb's favourite. Hawkman may rate higher on the Loeb's list than a lot, but Loeb's favourite is a different alien from a different planet.
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.

When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
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Ken
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Re: The Golden Age Hawkman

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:55 amI've heard that he would have gotten his own book (much like The Flash & Green Lantern had) if it weren't for a paper shortage in the Golden Age. It would be ten years before he'd also get a Silver Age version (a bit after most other guys did) - this one was an alien with a similar name- Katar Hol of Thanagar.
The paper shortage is the best known theory; the exact reason may never be known.

Katar (3/61) showed up after Barry (10/56) and Hal (10/59), but before Ray (10/61).
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Re: The Golden Age Hawkman

Post by Jabroniville »

Ken wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:48 am
Jabroniville wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:55 am
HAWKMAN II (Katar Hol)- Silver/Bronze Age
Created By:
Gardner Fox & Joe Kubert
Fixed that for you. As you said, Hawkman is confusing.
Ugh- blame ComicVine- they just pile everything together and I'd never recognize one or the other.
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Sidious
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Re: The Golden Age Robotman

Post by Sidious »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 7:59 pm Image
Image
Image

ROBOTMAN I (Robert Crane, aka Paul Dennis)
Created By:
Jerry Siegel & Leo Nowak
First Appearance: Star-Spangled Comics #7 (April 1942)
Role: Cyborg Hero
Group Affiliations: The All-Star Squadron
PL 8 (124)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA -- AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 6 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Expertise (Science) 4 (+10)
Intimidation 7 (+7)
Perception 6 (+7)
Technology 8 (+14)
Vehicles 3 (+3)

Advantages:
Benefit (Cipher- Robert Crane is Dead; Robotman is now Paul Dennis), Power Attack, Ranged Attack 5

Powers:
"Brain in a Bot"
Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
Power-Lifting 1 (15 tons) [1]
Protection 8 (Extras: Impervious 7) [15]
Speed 3 (16 mph) [3]
Senses 1 (Extended Sight) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +8 (+4 Impervious), Fortitude --, Will +5

Complications:
Prejudice (Non-Human)- Robotman is a robotic dude.

Total: Abilities: 40 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 50 / Defenses: 10 (124)

-Yeah, there WAS a Golden Age Robotman. Weird, huh? He was a scientist named Robert Crane who got shot and had his brain placed within a robot body- back before that happened ALL THE TIME in comics. He created a fake identity to ensure that his assailants be charged with murder (since if he was "alive" as Robotman, it wouldn't work), using a lifelife mask & gloves to fake being human. Apparently most of his adventures were jokey stuff featuring his sidekick Robbie the Robot Dog (something so unspeakably awesome that I'm amazed nobody else has made one), and at one point he was declared legally human in court. His Rogues Gallery included a bunch of forgettable names, including The Baffler, Tiger-Man (a cat burglar) & the Human Magnet... along with a Japanese agent literally named "Slanteyes". I was pretty shocked to learn that this guy was around for YEARS, too- despite being totally obscure nowadays, he debuted in 1942 and lasted all the way to 1953!!! Albeit, he was a supporting feature- Star Spangled Comics featured the Star-Spangled Kid, then the Guardian, then Robin as cover stars, and he also appeared in Detective Comics, backing up Batman stories.

-Robotman II was created for the Doom Patrol in the 1960s, and would go on to far more fame that Crane had- the character largely disappeared, but showed up in a few issues of the All-Star Squadron retcon series. The James Robinson Starman series stated that he helped Charles McNider mimic the powers of Starman in the 1950s. Robert showed up in Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E. in a human body again via an outlandish story- his old lab partner was dying of a brain disease which left the rest of his tissues unharmed, and thus offered up his corpse for Robotman's brain. Parts of his disassembled body were used to build the S.T.R.I.P.E. armor. The Golden Age offers an alternate future in which Robotman goes all "Dissociated From Humanity" and basically just starts going along with The Ultra-Humanite's plans because he doesn't care one way or the other.

-Robotman is a super-strong, very resilient Golden Age hero, but doesn't have much fancy stuff to him.
I loved Robotman in the All-Stars Squadron. He and Stell were a great tag team of powerhouses.
What happened to him in The Golden Age elseworlds was tragic.
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Sidious
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Re: The Golden Age Hawkman

Post by Sidious »

Jabroniville wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:55 am Image

HAWKMAN I (Carter Hall)- Golden Age
I liked his post-Death Metal nu52 origin of being continually reincarnated for some purpose. It was an interesting read because he has been around longer than just the Egyptian origin, that being the oldest one he remembered in his 1940's life. Also the reason as to why he was reincarnating, having nothing to do with Nth metal was interesting, if a bit contrived.
First Life as Ktar Deathbringer
Carter Hall's original incarnation was Ktar Deathbringer, general of the Deathbringers of Qgga, a group of winged aliens who slaughtered millions across the universe in the distant past. The Deathbringers worshipped a being known as the Lord Beyond the Void, who came from a rift between space. As Ktar murdered more and more victims, his guilt and self-loathing grew, and he began to have visions of an angelic woman. On Qgga, while preparing for a final sacrifice that would allow the Lord Beyond the Void to enter the universe, Ktar was again visited by the woman, an angelic herald named Shrra, and decided to turn on the Deathbringers, destroying Qgga and sending his army into the void. The Deathbringers' second in command, Idamm, killed Ktar in the process. Upon his death, Ktar faced God and was offered the chance to atone for his sins by endlessly reincarnating across space and time, only being allowed to finally pass on when he had saved as many lives as he had taken. He was also ordered to prepare for the return of the Deathbringers, who had survived under the leadership of Idamm.
This effected his powers too:
Reincarnation: Hawkman and Hawkwoman are locked in a seemingly endless cycle of death and rebirth throughout the centuries. While not a superhuman power per se, this propensity for reincarnation has allowed Hawkman to cheat death and return to active duty in his current incarnation. It was later discovered that his reincarnations were actually a curse from God to punish him for the actions he committed in his first life as Ktar Deathbringer. After he died trying to stop his ancient master, Lord Beyond the Void, the curse was lifted.
he's also no longer just a polygot;
Reincarnated Knowledge: Due to his many lives and vast amount of experience, Hall is a brilliant tactician, fierce warrior and strong leader. At the same time, however, he is extremely intelligent (considered a leader in his field of history and archaeology) and expresses a deeply romantic side in relation to his beloved soul-mate. Often, Carter finds it difficult to balance between the "barbarian" of his past lives and the "gentleman" of his current incarnation. He also has an extremely innovative approach to science and technology.
  • Archaeology: Carter is considered the greatest archaeologist in the Egyptian field.
  • Investigation: Considered by Batman to be possibly the greatest detective in human history, he single-handedly unraveled the mystery of the Dark Multiverse's origin.
  • Weaponry: Carter is a master with medieval weaponry due to centuries of utilizing such tools
  • Firearms: Carter keeps all the skills of his previous incarnation and as such is very efficient with firearms due to his tenure as Nighthawk.
  • Multilingualism: Carter knows thousands of languages, existing or extinct.
I may have to revisit some of my Hawkman builds after all this.
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The Silver Age Hawkman

Post by Jabroniville »

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HAWKMAN II (Katar Hol)
Created By:
Gardner Fox & Joe Kubert
First Appearance: The Brave and the Bold #34 (Feb. 1961)
Role: Flying Hero, THE Confusing Continuity Guy, Space Cop
Group Affiliations: The Justice League of America, Thanagar
PL 10 (170)
STRENGTH
4/6 STAMINA 6/7 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 12 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Aerobatics 9 (+14)
Athletics 4 (+8, +10 Harness)
Deception 2 (+6)
Expertise (Space Cop) 8 (+11)
Expertise (Military) 5 (+8)
Expertise (History) 6 (+9)
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 4 (+6)
Investigation 5 (+8)
Perception 4 (+7)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Lasers) 2 (+12)
Stealth 1 (+6)
Technology 3 (+6)
Vehicles 2 (+7)

Advantages:
Agile Feint, Animal Empathy, Equipment 4 (Ancient Weapons, Thanagarian Tech- Laser Blasters +5- Multiattack), Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Mace), Move-By Action, Power Attack, Quick Draw, Ranged Attack 5, Teamwork

Powers:
"Thanagarian Physiology"
Senses 3 (Extended & Low-Light Vision, Extended Hearing) [3]
"Endure Electricity" Immunity 5 (Electrical Effects) (Flaws: Limited to Half Effect) [5]
"Treated Bodies To Space Conditions" Immunity (Cold, Vacuum) (Flaws: Limited to Five Minutes) [1]

"Tthe Absorbascon Learning Device"
Comprehend 3 (Languages) (Flaws: Limited to Mere Hundreds of Earth Languages and Some Alien) [3]
Enhanced Advantages 2: Beginner's Luck, Jack-Of-All-Trades [2]

"Converse With Birds"
Comprehend 2 (Animals) (Flaws: Limited to Birds) [2]

"Anti-Gravity Metal Harness" (Flaws: Removable) [13]
Flight 7 (250 mph) (Flaws: Winged) (7)
Enhanced Strength 1 (2)
Enhanced Stamina 1 (2)
Immunity 2 (Cold, High Altitudes) (2)
Features 1: Will Hover Even if KO'd (1)
"Negate Weight" Power-Lifting 2 (6 tons) (2)
-- (16 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Nth Metal Harness +12 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Mace +12 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Laser Blaster +12 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +13 (DC 23), Parry +13 (DC 23), Toughness +6 (+7 Anti-Gravity Metal Harness), Fortitude +7 (+8 Harness), Will +7

Complications:
Relationship (Shayera Thal- Hawkgirl/woman)- The two were married on Thanagar years ago.
Enemy (The Shadow Thief, Matter Master, Kanjar Ro, etc.)- Hawkman has gained numerous adversaries over the years.
Rivalry (Green Arrow)- Oliver's rejection of authority rubs Katar the policeman the wrong way.

Total: Abilities: 80 / Skills: 60--30 / Advantages: 17 / Powers: 29 / Defenses: 14 (170)

Katar Hol- The Alien Hawkman:
-As the most-successful Golden Age heroes live on past the Golden Age (Supes, Bats, WW), and the next most-popular got revamped new versions (GL, Flash, Atom), it was inevitable that Hawkman would soon join them. Carter Hall was completely reimagined as "Katar Hol", a flying Space Cop from Thanagar, an alien world that'd just repeled an invasion from the "Manhawks". Thanagar won, but they learned how to steal from the Manhawks (it'd never occured to them before? WEIRD), necessitating the creation of a police force, of which Katar (a Prince) became a founding member. Katar soon fell in love with Shayera Thal and married her- ten years later, they were sent to Earth on the heels of some crook, and became museum curators Carter & Shiera Hall, in agreement with the police chief of Midway City. They elected to remain on Earth thereafter in order to learn human police methods for Thanagar, and also acted as the heroes Hawkman & Hawkgirl. Both would eventually join the Justice League (their book shared an Editor with JLA, meaning they were a natural fit), with Katar being a charter member in the first days.

-HOWEVER... Katar's feature was never that successful. Early try-outs seemed to go well enough, and he had a back-up role in Mystery In Space, but his book didn't actually sell super-well at that time. It was even cancelled after less than five, and a team-up book with The Atom lasted only seven issues! During the Silver Age- one of the PEAK ERAS of comic book sales! I mean, f*cking DAREDEVIL managed to last straight through to modern times, and his enemies were Stilt-Man and the Masked Marauder! HAWKMAN couldn't maintain a book!?! Looking at things, he seems to have a pretty weaksauce bunch of villains. It has all the hallmarks of a "Shit- I have enough stuff to write/draw this month- let's just throw whatever in here" as it comes off very half-assed, despite Gardner Fox (a big-time DC guy) doing the writing. Katar's only solace was that he was still consistently on the JLA, still a pretty big deal at the time.

Future Hawkman Stories- aka "The Crisis Buggers Everything Up":
-Katar & Shayera rejected Thanagar when they invaded Rann from the Adam Strange feature (that happened that long ago?), and Katar worked against them in secret when they plotted to take over EARTH as well. Another attempt at a solo book came and died after 17 issues, too. Then the Crisis happened, and this caused problems- it was easy to pass off some guys (Jay Garrick & Barry Allen) as successors/Legacies instead of "guys on different worlds with the same name"). But Carter Hall & Katar Hol both being Hawkmen? And being contemporaries? It's weird, but do-able, I guess. However, DC soon changed their mind and created the Hawkworld Limited Series (by Tim Truman, who I've never heard of, and later John Ostrander), which relaunched the characters and their history- its sales success (which, remember, was unknown to Hawkman for ages) led to an ongoing, which created numerous continuity errors, as now none of the previous shit made sense. NOW, Katar was a younger man who rejected his world's expansionist policies, got addicted to drugs, and was sent to a prison world. He was allowed back on the Police Force when his sentence was up, then got sent to Earth as Goodwill Ambassador along with Shayera Thall, a working-class rookie.

-This was of course running at the same time as OTHER DC books, which raised the question of who was on the JLA during all of THOSE stories back in the '60s? Katar & Shayera had a tumultuous relationship and split up. And it turned out that Carter & Shiera Hall were the inspiration of the "Wingmen" cops, as Katar's father had traveled to Earth during World War II. Oh, and Katar is apparently half-human, as his daddy married a Cherokee woman back then. Further things were muddled when they revealed that Carter & Shiera were in fact active for decades, joining the JLA in lieu of Katar & Shayera. And the Hawkman of the '80s? Well, that was FEL ANDAR, a Thanagarian Agent who was trying to infiltrate Earth and the League! He of course married a Hawkgirl (a different one), and had a son named Charlie Parker, which gave a retroactive origin to The Golden Eagle, a short-lived Sidekick character.

Hawkman Falters; Becomes a Running Joke:
-After a while, Hawkman gained the reputation of a guy who quickly lost series- despite his Golden Age success. His Silver Age book, one shared with The Atom, was not very successful, only lasting four years (by contrast, like I said, Daredevil, the bottom-tier solo hero at Marvel once Pym's feature got dumped, lasted more or less continuously from the Silver Age to today). Hawkworld only lasted three. His useless appearance on the Super Friends didn't help (Seanbaby pointed out the absurdity of a guy having ONLY FLYING as a power on a team of guys who had that as only ONE of their tons of powers). It got so bad that Wizard Magazine got a funny crack in about it during a "Parody Cover" bit- it featured Hawkman #1 with the blurb of "First Issue!" on the cover... then followed on the next page with Hawkman #2 with "LAST ISSUE!" mentioned in the same spot!

-In short, the continuity issues of Hawkworld, falling sales, and distaste with the Golden Age heroes at the time led to Zero Hour wiping out a bunch of the JSA (Mid-Nite, Hourman & The Atom died), along with Carter & Katar, who merged together with Shiera and a "hawk god" (??) creature to create a new Hawkman- a living avatar who fought criminals in a '90s-style way. This Hawkman went insane (too many voices in his head), and he was banished into limbo- it was later revealed that he was an incarnation of The Red (from Animal Man), who was confused and merely THOUGHT he was Hawkman. And then by the time Hawkman was finally ready to return, we got the original Golden Age hero back, with "I have the memories of Katar Hol swimming around up here too" being that hero's last real bit of importance. Carter Hall himself would then have a lot of dealings with Thanagar.

Katar Hol's Abilities:
-Katar Hol is actually a bit tough to find as far as information of his abilities goes, but thanks to some PMs from ages ago (I assume I asked Ken), I've got it. The Hawkpeople are basically like Hawkman- flying guys with melee weapons (nowhere compared to Hawkgirl's death weapon on JLU, though- it can Blast, Smash or Nullify Magic. The Hawkworld versions dropped the extras on the Nth Metal Harness (generally called Anti-Gravity Harnesses before JSA renamed it in the early 2000s) and went back to the Carter Hall version, and Thanagarians in general were usually weaker (Pre-Crisis they were stronger than humans at baseline), they couldn't survive in space for five minutes, and lost the Absorbascan stuff (and dropped being able to talk to birds, though once Katar figured out he was half-Native American he of course gained their own kind of Animal Communication). As "Hawkgod", he had natural Wings as part of his body, and they were Subtle (they could go inside of him). He was Strength 7 or 8 and had a big Pistol.
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Goldar
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Johnny & Jakeem Thunder! Air Wave! Hawkman!)

Post by Goldar »

Just wanted to say I am enjoying these DC builds, Jab.

Didn't Marvel have a 1950's Robot Man too? Maybe "Agents of Atlas" or something like that? When I saw this Robotman, it reminded me of the other one. I think it appeared with Namora, Marvel Boy and a few other 1950's characters.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Johnny & Jakeem Thunder! Air Wave! Hawkman!)

Post by Sidney369 »

Goldar wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:53 pm Just wanted to say I am enjoying these DC builds, Jab.

Didn't Marvel have a 1950's Robot Man too? Maybe "Agents of Atlas" or something like that? When I saw this Robotman, it reminded me of the other one. I think it appeared with Namora, Marvel Boy and a few other 1950's characters.
You're thinking of M-11, the Human Robot http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/humnrbot.htm
Always ask before you use someone's Original Character.
Never ever use them without permission. Only Villains do that.
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Goldar
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Johnny & Jakeem Thunder! Air Wave! Hawkman!)

Post by Goldar »

Sidney369 wrote: Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:24 am
Goldar wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 10:53 pm Just wanted to say I am enjoying these DC builds, Jab.

Didn't Marvel have a 1950's Robot Man too? Maybe "Agents of Atlas" or something like that? When I saw this Robotman, it reminded me of the other one. I think it appeared with Namora, Marvel Boy and a few other 1950's characters.
You're thinking of M-11, the Human Robot http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/humnrbot.htm
Ah so, yes, that is it. M-11. Thanks!
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The Golden Age Hawkgirl

Post by Jabroniville »

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HAWKGIRL I (Shiera Hall, aka Shiera Saunders)- Golden Age
Created By:
Gardner Fox & Dennis Neville
First Appearance: Flash Comics #1 (Jan. 1940)
Role: Flying Hero, Distaff Counterpart
Group Affiliations: The Justice Society of America
PL 8 (129)
STRENGTH
2/4 STAMINA 4/5 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Aerobatics 10 (+14)
Athletics 6 (+8, +10 Harness)
Deception 2 (+5)
Expertise (History) 6 (+8)
Expertise (Archaeologist) 5 (+7)
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 2 (+5)
Investigation 2 (+5)
Perception 4 (+7)
Persuasion 2 (+5)
Stealth 2 (+6)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Equipment 2 (Ancient Weapons- +2-3, Penetrating 4 or Reach), Improved Critical (Spear), Move-By Action, Quick Draw, Ranged Attack 3, Set-Up, Takedown, Teamwork

Powers:
"Lives Throughout the Years" Immortality 1 (Extras: Reincarnation) [3]

"Nth Metal Harness" (Flaws: Removable) [12]
Flight 7 (250 mph) (Flaws: Winged) (7)
Enhanced Strength 2 (4)
Enhanced Stamina 1 (2)
Immunity 2 (Cold, High Altitudes) (2)
-- (15 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Nth Metal Harness +10 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Weapons +10 (+5-6 Damage, DC 20-21)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +4 (+5 Nth Metal Harness), Fortitude +5 (+6 Harness), Will +7

Complications:
Relationship (Carter Hall- Hawkman)- They are reincarnated throughout history to be eternal lovers.
Enemy (Hath-Set)- Hath-Set murders Carter & Shiera in every one of his reincarnations throughout the years.

Total: Abilities: 66 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 15 / Defenses: 14 (129)

-One of comics' first Distaff Counterparts, Shiera Saunders debuted as Carter Hall's Token Girlfriend Character (VERY common in the Golden & Silver Ages), but in a 1941 JSA story, she donned the tights herself to become Hawkgirl. Despite appearing again and again in Carter's stories, she actually wasn't a major character and didn't get up to much- she never joined the JSA back in the day, and her Silver Age version (Shayera Thall) got a LOT more attention. For example, though Carter Hall shows up for the first time in the Silver Age for a 1963 JLA/JSA team-up, Shiera doesn't return until *1976*! She & Carter were revealed to be the parents of Hector "Silver Scarab" Hall in Infinity, Inc., and the rest of her story is kind of told via Retcon- she actually JOINED the 1940s JSA at some point, as well as joining the '80s JLA as "liaisons" between them and the JSA. She died by merging with Carter & Katar to form the "Hawkgod", but was revived in the body of Kendra Saunders (her grandniece) in a modern JSA story. She wasn't TRULY seen again until the end of Blackest Night, which resurrected Shiera fully.

-HOWEVER, Blackest Night hits and both Hawks die- when resurrected at the end of the story, they discover that KENDRA is now permanently-dead, and SHIERA is Hawkgirl again! And THEN they're both vaporized by a freaking White Lantern Ring because they refuse to follow its orders and separate (in order to "live strong" they must live apart, because they're too obsessed with each other... weird)! They're brought back (wow they totally kick Jean Grey's ass at this resurrection thing) as Elementals that are meant to save the Earth, helping Swamp Thing. Shiera was again not brought back, as she is now "everywhere", an Elemental of Air.
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Hawkwoman

Post by Jabroniville »

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HAWKWOMAN (Shayera Hol/Thall, aka Hawkgirl II)
Created By:
Gardner Fox & Joe Kubert
First Appearance: The Brave and the Bold #34 (Feb. 1961)
Role: Flying Hero, Distaff Counterpart
Group Affiliations: The Justice League of America, Thanagar
PL 9 (162)
STRENGTH
3/5 STAMINA 5/6 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Aerobatics 9 (+14)
Athletics 4 (+7, +9 Harness)
Deception 2 (+6)
Expertise (Space Cop) 5 (+8)
Expertise (History) 3 (+6)
Expertise (Secretary) 2 (+5)
Expertise (Archaeology) 4 (+7)
Insight 3 (+6)
Investigation 5 (+8)
Perception 4 (+7)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Lasers) 2 (+12)
Stealth 1 (+6)
Technology 3 (+6)
Vehicles 2 (+7)

Advantages:
Agile Feint, Animal Empathy, Equipment 4 (Ancient Weapons, Thanagarian Tech- Laser Blasters +5- Multiattack), Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Axe), Move-By Action, Power Attack, Quick Draw, Ranged Attack 5, Teamwork

Powers:
"Thanagarian Physiology"
Senses 3 (Extended & Low-Light Vision, Extended Hearing) [3]
"Endure Electricity" Immunity 5 (Electrical Effects) (Flaws: Limited to Half Effect) [5]
"Treated Bodies To Space Conditions" Immunity (Cold, Vacuum) (Flaws: Limited to Five Minutes) [1]

"Tthe Absorbascon Learning Device"
Comprehend 3 (Languages) (Flaws: Limited to Mere Hundreds of Earth Languages and Some Alien) [3]
Enhanced Advantages 2: Beginner's Luck, Jack-Of-All-Trades [2]

"Converse With Birds"
Comprehend 2 (Animals) (Flaws: Limited to Birds) [2]

"Anti-Gravity Metal Harness" (Flaws: Removable) [13]
Flight 7 (250 mph) (Flaws: Winged) (7)
Enhanced Strength 1 (2)
Enhanced Stamina 1 (2)
Immunity 2 (Cold, High Altitudes) (2)
Features 1: Will Hover Even if KO'd (1)
"Negate Weight" Power-Lifting 2 (6 tons) (2)
-- (16 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Nth Metal Harness +11 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Spear +11 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Laser Blaster +12 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +5 (+6 Anti-Gravity Metal Harness), Fortitude +6 (+7 Harness), Will +6

Complications:
Relationship (Katar Hol- Hawkman)- The two were once close, but split up before the Hawk-merger.

Total: Abilities: 74 / Skills: 60--30 / Advantages: 17 / Powers: 29 / Defenses: 12 (162)

-The second Hawkgirl was initially Shayera Hol, wife of Katar, and a fellow Thanagarian Space Cop, though a rookie (infuriating the decorated, experienced Katar, but she quickly saved his life and proved herself, and the two married). She followed pretty much the same path as Hawkman (who was a bigger name, but didn't light the world on fire with his books), and changed her name to Hawkwoman in the early 1980s. However, she DID get to join the Justice League at some point. When they decided to revamp the Hawks Post-Crisis, they explained away older stories by stating that Hawkman was an imposter named Fel Andar who was pretending to be "Carter Hall Jr.", and the Hawkwoman of the time was actually a human woman named Sharon Parker, who married Andar, but was later brainwashed by his bosses into pretending to be Sharon Hall. Shayera thus disappears until Hawkworld comes out.

-Hawkworld reimagined Shayera as Shayera THAL, a girl whose mother came from the slums, forcing her to fight her way up to The Wingmen of Thanagar. She fell in love with Katar as the previous Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman had done, but never married- they actually BROKE UP when the whole "Hawkgod" thing happened (Carter had fundamentally changed too much. Also it turns out it was never him anyways), and she retired from superheroics to become a cop in Detroit. We wouldn't find her again until MUCH later (despite JSA heavily-featuring both Hawkman and a new Hawkgirl), in the Rann-Thanagar War book that I've never read, now fighting on the side of Thanagar. During the story, she was murdered by Queen Komand'r of Tamaran (Blackfire, sister of the Titans' Starfire), possibly to wipe away an ugly question (like where does SHE fit into the whole "Resurrection" scheme?) and a redundant character.

-Hawkwoman is a PL 9 Sidekick sort to Hawkman (Katar version), fitting in just below him. She maintains Thanagarian abilities, but like Katar, lost several of them in the Hawkworld revamp.
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Ken
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Re: The Silver Age Hawkman

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 8:28 pm It was even cancelled after less than five [years], and a team-up book with The Atom lasted only seven issues! During the Silver Age- one of the PEAK ERAS of comic book sales!
In all fairness, with issue #22, the ENTIRE creative team on Hawkman changed, and it was BAAAAD. If they kept Fox and Anderson, hell, maybe if they'd let Schwartz keep editing the book, the book might have lasted longer. As it stands, issues #22-27 are considered apocryphal/non-canonical by the vast majority of fans. When Atom became Atom and Hawkman, the Hawkman stories were already ignoring the last 6 issues of Hawkman.

Also, this was the beginning of a period when DC had trouble. Green Lantern was in trouble, so they added Green Arrow; they got a lot of praise, but the sales still sucked, and would be cancelled. But it lasted a year longer than Aquaman Wonder Woman was overhauled into her "mod" era. The Teen Titans got lobotomized and started dressing like the Challengers of the Unknown. Schwartz put an inexperienced college kid in as the writer on Justice League of America and promptly produced the weakest issues of the series run. This wasn't the height of the Silver Age. According to some it was the beginning of the Bronze Age. The height of the age of the Hippie was not kind to DC.
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Jabroniville
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Fel Andar (The imposter Hawkman)

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

HAWKMAN III (Fel Andar)
Created By:
Tony Isabella & Richard Howell
First Appearance: The Shadow War of Hawkman #1 (May 1985)
Role: Retcon Character, The Mole
Group Affiliations: The Justice League of America, Thanagar
PL 9 (128)
STRENGTH
3/5 STAMINA 5/6 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Aerobatics 9 (+14)
Athletics 4 (+7, +9 Harness)
Deception 10 (+12)
Expertise (Spy) 9 (+12)
Insight 3 (+6)
Investigation 5 (+8)
Perception 4 (+7)
Persuasion 2 (+5)
Ranged Combat (Lasers) 1 (+11)
Stealth 2 (+6)
Technology 3 (+6)
Vehicles 2 (+7)

Advantages:
Equipment 4 (Ancient Weapons, Thanagarian Tech- Laser Blasters +5- Multiattack), Improved Critical (Axe), Move-By Action, Quick Draw, Ranged Attack 5

Powers:
"Thanagarian Physiology"
Senses 3 (Extended & Low-Light Vision, Extended Hearing) [3]

"Anti-Gravity Metal Harness" (Flaws: Removable) [11]
Flight 7 (250 mph) (Flaws: Winged) (7)
Enhanced Strength 1 (2)
Enhanced Stamina 1 (2)
Immunity 2 (Cold, High Altitudes) (2)
-- (13 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Nth Metal Harness +11 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Spear +11 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Laser Blaster +11 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +5 (+6 Anti-Gravity Metal Harness), Fortitude +6 (+7 Harness), Will +5

Complications:
Responsibility (Thanagar)- Fel Andar is a Thanagarian spy agent.
Relationship (Sharon Parker)- The two fell in love, despite her being an Earthwoman. She was brainwashed into being the Silver Age Hawkgirl, but Andar murdered her when she recovered and revealed his duplicity.

Total: Abilities: 74 / Skills: 34--17 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 14 / Defenses: 11 (128)

-Fel Andar was initially used as a generic villain meant to represent the fascistic Thanagar- he led a team to Earth in order to steal the Hawks' technology. He was quickly defeated, and was later shown as a ghost. If only they'd left it there...

-See, with the Hawkworld series proving popular, it was decided that this "New Origin" was supposed to be an ongoing series, establishing a new status quo, where Hawkman has arrived on Earth much more recently than he had in the Silver Age. Except we'd already had a Hawkman on the Justice League before that point, so what to do with those old stories? Aaaaaaaaaaand now, Andar was reborn following an Invasion! story as a Thanagarian spy who arrived on Earth before Katar Hol, married an Earth woman, and infiltrated the Justice League as the second Hawkman (technically the third, as I'm going in order they appeared). He pretended to be Carter Hall, Jr., and was mainly there to "explain away" any Hawkman-themed stories that took place in continuity before the new Hawkworld series retconned everything. When his wife Sharon recovered from her brainwashing, Andar killed her for betraying him to the JLA, and was exiled from Earth- he was imprisoned upon returning to Thanagar. He would vanish for over a DECADE (I mean, which writer would dare mess with ANOTHER retcon character in the Hawks' mythology?), popping up in Rann-Thanagar War as a guy trying to redeem himself to his son, Charley (his & Sharon's son, and the Golden Eagle). Unfortunately, he was killed by Blackfire, along with Hawkwoman.

-Andar is more or less like Hawkman & Hawkwoman, but lacks the earlier Silver Age Hawkpeople powers. He's a much better liar, though, but naturally brings up the odd bit about lying in M&M- technically, it is basically IMPOSSIBLE to lie as frequently and as well as people like Andar or Terra do, invading super-hero groups and pretending to be something they're not- they make the equivalent of THOUSANDS of Deception checks against some reasonably-high Insight scores over months, and then it's all "OH HO HO I WAS ACTUALLY LYING YOU GUYS!" RPGs just don't have a set-up to properly explain why the heroes would never figure it out.
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