Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Terrific! Aquaman! Liberty Belle! Dr. Fate!)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:25 am Image

FATE (Jared Stevens)
Created By:
J.M. DeMatteis & Shawn McManus
First Appearance: Zero #1 (Jan. 1994)
Role: F'd Up Origins
Group Affiliations: The Lords of Order
Davies wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:59 am ... you know that you're making me want to salvage this guy, right?
EternalPhoenix wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 1:23 am The concept itself isn't terrible, it's the execution that's dammed awful. I think we both could do better. The one small pic of him whose artist isn't suffering from a terrible case of 90s Disease actually looks like someone I would like to read about. Wielding a bits he could salvage of a legendary artifact and fighting demons with it and a grab bag of mismatched mystical powers.

...yanno, why wasn't this Constantine instead of some random doofus? Seems tailor made for him, honestly.
Giving DC a dedicated monster hunter isn't a bad idea in and of itself, but doing so at the cost of it's most powerful spellcaster (no disrespect to Zatanna or Constantine who are equally iconic in their own way) was a really stupid move, and I'm glad the dingus was killed. So much of it was just so frickin edgy. The magical helmet that made someone a Dr. Strange level mage with flight, superstrength and invulnerability on top of it was melted down into a knife and some ankh shaped throwing darts. Oh, and the cape was turned into the wrappings for his arm. So dumb.

I mean, there was no reason Jared couldn't have existed as a separate character. They could have even made the weapons be old items Nabu had created to help humans fight monsters and Jared could have been Nabu's "Moon Knight".

Honestly, while I love the look and concept of Dr. Fate, it's suffered over the years from making Nabu into an evil mentor, of giving the human wielders of the magic no agency and of not understanding that Order and Chaos are, in and of themselves, not good things.

Nabu has suffered the same fate (heh) as the Guardians of Oa, the Wizard Shazam, and every other mentor figure: they get turned evil so that the hero can show they don't need them anymore. To the point that killing Nabu has become a major point of several DC stories in the last few years.

How it should work is that the person wearing Fate's helmet needs to be a powerful sorcerer in their own right, but the Helmet gives them access to Nabu's store of mystical knowledge, experience and a boost in raw power. Nabu functions as a guide, akin to Professor Stein in the old Firestorm comics, rather than completely taking over the host. Because the whole point of Nabu should be akin to the point of the Guardians of Oa: they exist to protect free will, the rights of mortal beings to make their own choices, and to fight evil. You don't do that by then controlling the agents who fight that battle for you.

As for Order and Chaos, basically which side is 'Good' depends on the writer, and while Order is generally good while Chaos is evil, you'll get the occasional writer who flips it around and makes Chaos the good guys.

Which is stupid. Order and Chaos are two extremes that equally bad. You need Order to give things structure while also needing Chaos to allow for freedom of choice and spontaneity. Ideally, any sane person would be fighting against both Order and Chaos and be striving for harmony. It should really be more like while the Lords of Order and Chaos are both groups of powerful mystical beings, they aren't completely unified. Some of them lean more good, some lean more evil, many of them lean more towards the middle, and the ones on the far extremes are bad for everyone. With the Lords of Order and Chaos that empower Hawk and Dove being the ones closest to actually wanting harmony.

Otherwise they need to clearly define just what these guys do.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Doctor Fate (Hector Hall)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:54 am Image
Image

THE SILVER SCARAB (Hector Hall, aka The Sandman II, Dr. Fate V)
Created By:
Roy Thomas & Jerry Ordway
First Appearance: All-Star Squadron #25 (Sept. 1983)
Role: Powersuit Guy, Team Asshole
Group Affiliations: Infinity, Inc.
I always felt kind of bad for Hector and Lyta just got REALLY screwed over at DC, and basically only got little moments of happiness. They were especially screwed over in Neil Gaiman's Sandman book . . . for reasons that utterly baffle me. Why did Neil feel the need to even set his stories in the DCU in the first place, let alone enjoy tearing down Hector and putting Lyta through the wringer? Between that, what he did to the Narnia kids and a few other stories, Neil has no legs to stand on when it comes to people disrespecting his creations.

As for Hector, his first outfit was honestly a lot better, and it's a shame he had the genius idea to make Nth Metal Armor before Geoff Johns turned it into a miracle metal. If someone had a suit of power armor made of Nth metal today, they'd be a top tier badass.

I've mentioned this before, but if I were going to unify DC's history, I'd use the JSA's time in Ragnarok as the excuse for their young age. The JSA and whatever Golden Agers they want to keep around go fight the armies of Hel alongside the forces of Asgard, they eventually win about 20 years before the modern age of heroes, they retire, and then their kids are all in their 20s by the time new superheroes show up. The JSA age a little slower due to their time in Asgard, so even though there's some grey in the hair and a few wrinkles they're still mostly in their prime and have the experience of heroes who have fought for decades against the most dangerous menaces ever.

Meanwhile you get second generation JSAers like the Infinity Inc. kids, including Hector. I'd change Lyta to being a daughter of Hippolyta, one she had during her time fighting in World War II but whom she left in Man's World because she wasn't sure how the other Amazons would react to her. Hippolyta then creates Diana to test the waters, raising Diana as her own. And then later on, Donna Troy is brought to the island and raised there, convincing Hippolyta that the amazons would accept Lyta as well. Only the amazons are split on Lyta because while most do accept her, some see Lyta as a kind of 'corruption of their queen from Man's World'.

So Lyta winds up having a bit of a temper because even though she's the eldest daughter, she feels like she was always cast aside or had to wait for acceptance that Diana and Donna just always received. It's part of why sh and Hector initially bonded: they both had issues with their folks. They'd wind up having a kind of Mr. Miracle/Big Barda relationship of "smart guy and warrior woman", but tend to be slightly more rebellious and snarky, even though still good intentioned.

Though part of me also wants to give Jaime Reyes the Silver Scarab name so that he can be a hero while Ted Kord remains the Blue Beetle. Maybe there's another name Hector could use for his power suit ID.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Terrific! Aquaman! Liberty Belle! Dr. Fate!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Yeah, the mask being given up for a very '80s headband made him more recognizable, but made him look more vulnerable, and wasn't as distinctive.
User avatar
Spam
Posts: 147
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 12:17 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Terrific! Aquaman! Liberty Belle! Dr. Fate!)

Post by Spam »

kenmadragon wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:48 pm
Ken wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 4:20 pm A rare shot of Inza as Doctor Fate with the half mask.

Image
Is no one else going to acknowledge the fact that Wonder Woman apparently makes cosplay in her free time, and does so regularly enough to consider it a personal hobby? Wow!
It's the 40s. Of course she sews as a hobby. When she's not typing out the minutes of the meetings as JSA secretary.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

JSA Rundowns- The Return of Hawkman

Post by Jabroniville »

"JSA: The Return of Hawkman" (#16-26)- written by David S. Goyer & Geoff Johns, art by Stephen Sadowski, Buzz, Steve Yeowell, Rags Morales & Michael Bair
JSA line-up: Sand, Wildcat I, Sentinel, Hawkgirl, Atom-Smasher, Star-Spangled Kid II, The Flash I, Black Canary II, Doctor Fate IV (Hector Hall), Dr. Mid-Nite III, Mr. Terrific II

Part One: Injustice Be Done (yeah, these older trades are double-stuffed with arcs). The Injustice Society returns from their shit-kicking via Wildcat in order, harassing the JSA one-by-one. The new squad is the same as the old one (Sorrow, Icicle, Tigress, Killer Wasp, Blackbriar Thorn, Geomancer), plus "Rival" (a reverse-Flash for Jay Garrick, because you know you can't be a speedster in DC without an evil version of yourself), Shiv (Star-Spangled Kid's rival from her by-then-nearly-cancelled series) and The Thinker (an old enemy converted to a computer program that infested their base). This time, however, they do MUCH better, splitting up and taking the JSA apart piece by piece.

-Hey, Black Canary & Dr. Mid-Nite are dating! Man, Pieter's a good character and all, but it's SO ANNOYING to see this Perfect Man embodiment out there (handsome, charming, smart, a DOCTOR). I guess it might get the female readers wet, if comics had any, though. The Society plays it smart by taking out Sentinel right away with a crossbow bolt made of Blackbriar Thorn. I'm shocked no one else thought of doing that in this series. It's also the first of MANY, MANY times a JSA powerhouse is taken out early to keep them from saving the day in two seconds. So Terrific, SSK (god I can't wait till she changes her codename so I don't have to type "Star-Spangled Kid" everywhere) & Hawkgirl work on saving Sentinel's life while trapped in a locked, freezing room, while everyone else deals with thier own battles.

-Rival (vs) Flash! Sand & Wildcat (vs) Killer Wasp & Geomancer! BLACK ADAM shows up again, on the side of the Injustice Society. At this point in my first read-through, I figured Adam was another lame DC reverse-colour villain among dozens. Johnny Sorrow does crap with the "King of Tears" by kidnapping Scarab (there's that guy again!).

-Mid-Nite takes out Vertigo with a sonic device, and Jay takes out Rival by merging with the Speed Force and shit (god I hate that power...), and STEALS HIS HAT because Rival broke his. The DICK. Sand beats Geomancer for the hundredth time. Courtney KOs Shiv (who pretty much moves into comics limbo after this, save a couple other one-shots), and Hawkgirl blows up with Nth Metal thought energy or something to take Tigress out (who was winning that fight), giving us a preamble to what would happen later.

-Holy shit, the STAR-SPANGLED KID just took out Thorn AND Icicle by herself! GOD the Society are pussies in a straight-up fair fight! Funny how they never quite explain Court's powers in this series- it's just vague mentions of stunning Stars, with nothing about her super-strength till WAY later.

-Things finally settle into the JSA moving against Sorrow, who 'kill's Mid-Nite, and we go into Flashback Mode (hey, it IS the JSA...), as Sandy remembers the old days of fighting dumb criminal Sorrow (in what's obviously an inserted-adventure, since he's wearing the Bucky costume while Wesley's in the gas-mask instead of the purple & yellow garish gear) and sending him into the King of Tears' dimension, then he makes his big return with the King in tow, and The Spectre comes in and eats it, creating that liquid Sorrow's been going on about for months.

-Back to the modern era, it's Black Adam unveiling his true colours as an arrogant good guy who actually wants to help, and the King of Tears is loose, ready to eat the world. And it's The JSA Fights an Evil Godlike Being! Jesus, that picture of a crying kid holding a dead adult's skeleton, surrounded by giant bugs, is horrifically disturbing.

-Meanwhile, in the never-ending Confusing Fate story, he discovers the woman who gave BIRTH to him is his WIFE. Yeah. JJ Thunder (the 'new' Thunderbolt-caller who debuted in Morrison's JLA) shows up to help, and the Spectre gets eaten alive and runs off, because God knows you can't have a story without him announcing that everyone's SOL and on their own. Putz. Oh, and Mid-Nite's alive, as he 'saved' Sorrow's evil essence in his goggles, stuns him with his own death-vision, allowing Jay Garrick to steal Black Adam's speed in order to punch the King of Tears into the Speed Force/Space/Time Continuum, which HAS to be one of the most f'd-up, crazy, makes-me-glad-I-read-comics convoluted plans I've ever read. Seriously, just TRY explaining that shit to someone who doesn't read comics. I just love it.

-Flash wakes up... and it's The JSA Goes To The Past! (Oh, Johns) Black Adam wants to join the JSA! Killer Wasp tells Wildcat that he's not his son, and in fact killed him. For YEARS I assumed this was B.S. on Wasp's part, just to screw with Ted, and he really WAS his son, and this was leading somewhere, but it never really got brought up again, as Wasp was absent from later Injustice Society gatherings. Creepy moment where Jade talks about Obsidian haunting her nightmares, and you see his eyes in the shadows. Atom-Smasher & Mr. Bones have a talking-to over Sylvester Pemberton's grave (showing Bones at least has SOMEWHAT of a good side, guilty over having killed him years ago), foreshadowing his later turn. And Kendra/Hawkgirl has a little chat with Zauriel the Failed 90s Super-Hero Character about her true origins, as the reincarnated soul of Shiera Hall. Quite the amount of stuff.

-JJ Thunder dicks it up, acting out around Mr. Terrific, prompting Courtney to threaten to beat the shit out of him. THAT's my girl. God, was Jakeem ever unlikeable for his first couple years of existence.

-Next issue is one of those 'experiments', where the top story is Sand discovering the truth about Kendra, and the bottom story is Flash stuck in the past, with the former versions of his teammates in Ancient Egypt- Khufu, Chayera, Nabu & Teth-Adam. Kind of hard to read and a pain in the ass, so they never did it again. The crux is, the JSA knows Kendra's story, and Jay returns to the present using the same means he went to the past.

Part Two: The Return of Hawkman- Kendra shows up on Thanagar, where Onimarr Synn (guess what? He's an Evil Godlike Being!) has taken over with his cult. The JSA follows with the ridiculous ease of having a sorceror like Dr. Fate on your team, and it's ON. Oh, but Wildcat, Canary, Sentinel & Star-Spangled Kid are sitting it out, doing their own thing. You know your roster's too big when every story involves half the gang either injured or away.

-Note: It's right around this time that Stars & STRIPE was cancelled, thus making this the only book Courtney Whitmore appears in. Therefore, all her character stuff now happens HERE, as her mom goes into labour as of this story, and apparently they all moved to Metropolis, thus axing her whole supporting cast from that book in a BIG hurry. But they have Atom-Smasher, Fate & Black Adam with them, though Al gives his first big "I hate Adam" moment, rejecting wisely the idea of a reformed villain.

-Turns out resurrecting Hawkman is as simple as sticking your hand inside a Memory Well or something. Who knew? It's a pretty epic return, though, made certain of by the fact that EVERYBODY who knew Carter has been talking about how awesome he is, like he's Poochie and they all need to be asking "Where's Poochie?" when he's not there or something.

-The JSA arrives & meets the new Carter. It's all good, and then we get the really nice moment of father & son meeting. But IT'S ON, and they brawl with the villains. Introduced villains Crypt & Phade mess up the team as debuting villains will do, as the fat lizard thing EATS Atom-Smasher, and Synn uses Godlike Evil Powers on the rest of the team, taking them apart worse than Mordru, with one hand behind his back. Sand's scattered to the winds, Adam's thrown into space, and another big dog is out right away, with Fate being muted until the end of the story (you know, they could just DE-POWER some of these f*ckers and not have to keep on doing that...). And they're screwed. Again.

-Synn gives his big Evil Monologue to Carter, but it's actually a great one, as he admits he's a perverse sadist. "It's going to be okay, Kendra." "Maddening. It ASTONISHES me that you could still say that." Hah. I like this villain in the way that he's funny and evil, but you want to see him get his ass kicked.

-Another brilliant character moment, as Terrific shows characterization beyond being smart by talking about his lack of faith in souls & reincarnation, and Jay talks about his son that died (not sure if that's an introduced thing or not by Johns & Co. Anyone?). That's why this series rules, right here. Character moments in the midst of bad-ass evil shit going down.

-And it's the Big Comeback, as the Hawks escape their deathtrap, and Jay Speed Forces his way out of the trap. Phade gets KOed right away by Hawkgirl. What a useless villain. Black Adam makes an AWESOME comeback, flying through the stratusphere and driving Synn through the floating city into the earth. Atom-Smasher rips his way out of Crypt's stomach, showing no signs of distress. You'd think he'd have drowned or something.

-Big climax sees Synn growing f*cking huge with all the Nth Metal on Thanagar, and Adam scores the line of the centruy with "Black Adam does not 'Scatter'!" in time to be squished. But the Hawks use the equivalent of the Care Bear Stare with their Nth Metal Lovin's (using the Claw of Horus, given to Jay several issues ago by Khufu, because Johns likes FORESHADOWING), and Synn blows up completely. The JSA comes home one stronger, and it's all glorious and happy.

Roster Changes: Hawkman & Black Adam join, along with Jakeem Thunder off-and-on. So much for that 'army of superheroes' dissipating as mentioned in the last arc, huh?

Review: This was some crazy shit, right here. Giant, super-powerful omnipotent villains, the heroes with NO chance except for some crazy Deus Ex Machinas that somehow actually make a bit of SENSE, interpersonal relationships going on at the same time, etc. Somehow making one of the lamer big-time heroes in Hawkman cool is an epic feat in and of itself, but that'll happen when you're a clear writer favourite. The workings of Johns are becoming much more apparent here, as his obvious faves like Hawkman, Mr. Terrific, Star-Spangled Kid & Dr. Mid-Nite see more and more use, along with Black Adam (who'd been showing up since he started co-writing), changing the dynamic of the team (for the better, in my opinion, though the early stuff is still great).

Best Moment: "Black Adam does not 'Scatter'!" 'Nuff Said. Though the Speed Force Punch combined with the Captured Photograph Attack is purely why I love comics.
Sidney369
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:18 am

Re: Fate

Post by Sidney369 »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 12:25 amBuuuuuuuut the book goes on for only 18 issues before being forgotten-
The "Fate" series lasted 23 issues, including the #0. Then a couple of months after the book ended, it was relaunched as "the Book of Fate" which lasted 12 issues. Kind of surprising now that he had so many books, but that's what was popular back then.
Always ask before you use someone's Original Character.
Never ever use them without permission. Only Villains do that.
User avatar
Ken
Posts: 3460
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:40 pm
Location: Sycalb, Madiganistan

Re: Doctor Fate (Hector Hall)

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:54 amHector Hall- The Team Whiner:
-Hector Hall was kind of an unlikeable grouch during his Infinity Inc. days. Despite having a hot girlfriend (at least, everyone in the series SAID she was hotter than the average superheroine), he spent all his time being a little bitch, yelling at his teammates, and storming off, jealous of everyone else's super-powers. Apparently being the son of Hawkman & Hawkgirl wasn't good enough for him, and the power-suited hero was just green with envy of "real" super-humans. He was even jealous of teammate NORTHWIND, because Hawkman had always looked at Nordra like a son as well, and doted on him. In essence, he was kind of a Marvel-like character, throwing a wrench into things to keep up interpersonal conflict- Roy was Stan Lee's student, ya know. Despite this REALLY unlikeable personality trait, he was sort of a 2nd-in-command for the team under Skyman.

-Hector Hall was one of the odder choices for Infinity Inc.- he was the natural-born son of TWO superheroes (in fact, he may have been the first of those PERIOD), but didn't have any powers, and used a Powersuit instead. Like, the team was full of godsons and long-lost children, and here's an honest-to-god Second-Generation Superhero, actually having been raised by superhero parents. But feeling neglected by his parents, Hector built a suit out of Nth Metal, met Lyta Trevor in College, and fell in love with her. He & Lyta (the daughter of Wonder Woman) would found Infinity Inc. (after the JSA rejected them for being too inexperienced), and would eventually get married.
As someone who looked forward to Infinity Inc. when I heard it was going to be coming, and as someone who read it religiously, I have to say... it really was pretty bad. I read it more for the Justice Society, who were at least supporting players in the book for the first 58% of the series.

Hector was an asshole.
Norda was a mystery who's only reasons for existing were diversity, and to help make Hector an asshole.
Lyta didn't look like that great a catch since she was in love with the asshole.
Albert was likeable, but looked like a doofus.
Brainwave Junior's very existence made no sense ("Merry the Gimmick Girl married Brain Wave!")
Todd was a whiner
Jennie-Lynn was mostly okay. But to this day why she would call a man she barely knew "daddy" boggles the mind, even if he was her birth father.
And Sylvester had been maintained his own asshole status that he earned during the 1970s "All-Star" revival.

And, honestly it made a lot of the JSAers look not to-good either. I couldn't believe half the time that this was a book written by someone who loved the JSA.

It actually came as a relief when I heard the book was being ghost written by Dann Thomas.
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.

When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
User avatar
Sidious
Posts: 1610
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:27 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Terrific! Aquaman! Liberty Belle! Dr. Fate!)

Post by Sidious »

honestly, if you look at what Infinity Inc was up against in the 80's you had New Teen Titans, Uncanny X-men. Both titles were killing it as far as sales and stoylines.

If re-booted today I would have had them be set in the 1960/1970's. Mainly because I can't see their WW2 parents NOT having Baby Boomer kids. This would allow them to grow and age (hey maybe retconning some of the old Titans stories from the 60's & 70's to fit them). You can still keep the original parents (as I don't think the Young All-Stars are a thing in Nu52). Plus I kinda want to see Beast Boy tell Silver Scarab "Ok Boomer." and have Hector lose his shit on him.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Doctor Fate (Kent V. Nelson)

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

DOCTOR FATE VI (Kent V. Nelson)
Created By:
Steve Gerber & Justiniano
First Appearance: Countdown to Mystery #1 (Nov. 2007)
Role: Pointless Legacy Hero
Group Affiliations: The Lords of Order, The Justice Society of America
PL 12 (198)
STRENGTH
1/6 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1/3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Deception 2 (+4)
Expertise (Arcane Lore) 5 (+6, +12 Helm)
Ranged Combat (Magic) 5 (+8)

Advantages:
Benefit (Lord of Magic), Equipment 4 (Fate's Tower), Ranged Attack 1, Ritualist

Powers:
"The Helm of Nabu" (Flaws: Removable) (Feats: Restricted- Magical Training) [128]
Teleport 14 (Extras: Extended, Portal +2) (70) -- (82)
  • AE: "Ankh Bolt" Blast 16 (Extras: Penetrating 10) (42)
  • AE: "Multi-Bolts" Blast 12 (Extras: Multiattack) (36)
  • AE: Create Object 12 (Extras: Movable) (36)
  • AE: Movement 6 (Dimensional Travel 3, Time Travel 2, Permeate) (Extras: Portal +2) (24)
  • AE: "Space Port" Movement 2 (Space Travel 2) (Extras: Portal +2, Instantaneous) (10)
  • AE: Nullify Magic 16 (Extras: Broad, Ranged, Simultaneous) (64)
  • AE: "Magical Bonds" Snare 14 (42)
  • AE: Move Object 15 (Feats: Precise) (31)
  • AE: "Enhanced Force Field +5 (Extras: Affects Others 10, Ranged 10) (25)
  • AE: "Scrying" Remote Sensing 16 (Vision & Hearing) (Feats: Dimensional) (49)
  • AE: "Telepathy" Mind-Reading 12 Linked to Communication (Mental) 3 (36)
  • AE: "Sleep Spell" Affliction 10 (Will; Fatigued/Exhausted/Asleep) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2, Selective) (40)
Transform 5 (Anything to Anything) (25)
"Fate's Armor" Force Field 8 (16)
Feature 1: The Guidance of Nabu (1)

Flight 6 (120 mph) (Extras: Affects Others) (18)
Enhanced Strength 5 (10)

"Nabu's Voice"
Enhanced Awareness 2 (4)
Enhanced Will Save 1 (1)
Enhanced Skills 6: Expertise (Arcane Lore) +6 (3)
-- (160 points)

"The Amulet of Anubis" (Flaws: Removable) [13]
"Magical Sight" Senses 8 (Magical Awareness- Analytical, Acute, Radius & Ranged 3) (8)
Senses 8 (Analytical Sight, Vision Counters Concealment & Illusion) (8)
-- (16 points)

"Magically-Gifted" Immunity 1 (Aging) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Helm Strength +3 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Ankh Bolt +8 (+16 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Magical Bonds +8 (+14 Ranged Affliction, DC 24)
Nullify Magic +8 (+16 Ranged Nullify, DC 26)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +1 (+9 Armor, +14 Full Field), Fortitude +4, Will +5 (+8 Helm)

Complications:
Responsibility (Lord of Order)- Kent is a Fate like any other.

Total: Abilities: 32 / Skills: 12--6 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 142 / Defenses: 12 (198)

-When Hector is killed off, Nabu briefly reappears in the Fate vestments before being executed by The Spectre- Kent Nelson's grandnephew, also named Kent (because why NOT make the history even more muddled by copying a name?), becomes the new bearer. In this form, Kent joins the Post-Johns JSA, becoming a semi-central character in Bill Willingham's run, but his utter lack of characterization, and excessive power (at one point, he literally defeats 30 supervillains at once by waving his fingers and putting them to sleep- something I still use as an example of sloppy writing and overpowering ruining all magic characters because options like this are so easily-found), pretty much make for a boring loser act. After being possessed by Mordru, who AGAIN hunts the Amulet & Helmet of Fate, Kent leaves Earth in order to hone his powers. Aaaaaaaand then continuity ends, so this character absolutely never freaking matters.
User avatar
Davies
Posts: 5082
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:37 pm
Location: Edmonton, AB

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Terrific! Aquaman! Liberty Belle! Dr. Fate!)

Post by Davies »

He also featured in a mini-series that was the last thing Gerber wrote, dying before it was finished; the last issue was an anthology of possible endings put together by some of the man's admirers.
"I'm sorry. I love you. I'm not sorry I love you."
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Zatara

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

ZATARA I (Giovanni "John" Zatara)
Created By:
Fred Guardineer
First Appearance: Action Comics #1 (June 1938)
Role: Magic Guy
Group Affiliations: The All-Star Squadron
PL 10 (157)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 6
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Athletics 3 (+5)
Deception 2 (+7)
Expertise (Arcane Lore) 11 (+14)
Expertise (Stage Performer) 6 (+9)
Insight 4 (+8)
Investigation 3 (+7)
Perception 3 (+7)
Persuasion 3 (+7)
Ranged Attack (Magic) 2 (+10)
Sleight of Hand 8 (+14)
Stealth 3 (+6)

Advantages:
Artificer, Defensive Roll, Ranged Attack 3, Ritualist, Trance

Powers:
"Magical Powers"
"Mrofnsart!" Affliction 10 (Fort; Entranced/Stunned/Transformed to Other Form) (Extras: Ranged, Sustained +2) (40) -- [46]
  • AE: "Lla Mrofnsart!" Affliction 10 (Fort; Entranced/Stunned/Transformed to Other Form) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone, Sustained +2) (40)
  • AE: "Tsalb!" Blast 10 (20)
  • AE: "Tcetorp!" Force Field 6 (6)
  • AE: "Tropelet!" Teleport 8 (Extras: Extended, Accurate) (Flaws: Distracting) (24)
  • AE: “Cis Me, Sdnah!” Elongation 3 (3)
  • AE: "Evom Dnuora!" Move Object 8 (16)
  • AE: "Ezitonpyh!" Mind Control 10 (40)
Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Magic Blast +10 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Transform +10 (+10 Ranged Affliction, DC 20)
Hypnotize -- (+10 Perception-Ranged Affliction, DC 20)
Transform All +10 Area (+10 Affliction, DC 20)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +3 (+4 D.Roll, +10 Force Field), Fortitude +5, Will +7

Complications:
Motivation (Helping People)- When Zatara discovered his powers, he decided that they could be a great help to others.
Power Loss (Magic)- Zatara needs to speak backwards to utilize his magical powers.

Total: Abilities: 66 / Skills: 48--24 / Advantages: 7 / Powers: 47 / Defenses: 13 (157)

-Zatara debuted alongside Superman in Action Comics #1, and is one of the first Mandrake rip-offs- a tuxedo-wearing Stage Magician whose gimmick is that he's a REAL Magician, and goes around with a large ethnic buddy (his bodyguard Tong, from India). At least he had one unique trait- the ability to do things by speaking backwards- a trait Fred Guardineer would also give to Quality's Merlin the Magician when he took over that character. Retcons and other things established that his powers came from being descended from "Homo magi"- magically-powered humans, and Leonardo da Vinci himself (the Great Master used to write backwards in his notes as a security precaution). When he gained his powers, he decided to use them to help people, in addition to using them in his act. The Zatara feature was actually quite popular (he even got a few covers- bumping SUPERMAN!), lasting all the way until 1950- a solid twelve-year run, far beyond those of Flash, Green Lantern, Captain America and pretty well anyone but Superman, Batman, Aquaman & Wonder Woman. Falling page-counts would see the end of him.

-Zatara would be only half-forgotten with time- he's now most famous by far for introducing his daughter, Zatanna, who became a recurring DC hero off and on. He had apparently married a woman named Sindella, but she died after giving birth, causing Zatara to become a depressed drunk. Then, a young Bruce Wayne came calling, asking for help in becoming an escape artist- this inspired Zatara to clean himself up, as he'd been a friend of Bruce's parents. Ultimately, he dies along with Sargon the Sorcerer in a Swamp Thing-related Crisis crossover- the mages all attempt to stop the Crisis, and a demon arrives, burning first Sargon, then Zatanna- Zatara (who'd been guarding her from John Constantine) willingly takes the flames upon himself, dying in her stead, his smoldering hat falling to the table. He has since popped up a few times in the afterlife, at one point leading a rebellion in Hell, and having Zatanna destroy his very essence so he cannot be used as a pawn by demons.

-Zatara has the least real info on his magical capabilities than most mystics, surprisingly, making him pretty cheap (until I find other powers he supposedly had). Though Mind Control is a bit better than most other guys' abilities, especially at +9 intensity. Plus he can Nullify things and use the Transform power (though at very low levels, that makes sense- he's only gonna do it to guns and chairs and stuff). So he's one of the better all-around mystics (with stage magician stats like Sleight of Hand & Perform amped to the maximum), with quite a few more options.
User avatar
Ken
Posts: 3460
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:40 pm
Location: Sycalb, Madiganistan

Re: Zatara

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 7:13 pm-Zatara would be only half-forgotten with time- he's now most famous by far for introducing his daughter, Zatanna, who became a recurring DC hero off and on.
Zatanna's introduction and quest was a rarity in comics. particularly DC. She was introduced in Hawkman, and her story continued in Atom, Green Lantern, and the Elongated Man feature in Flash. They then shoe-horned a witch from a Batman story to have been Zatanna in disguise, so they could feature Batman prominently on the cover of Justice League of America in the story that had Zatanna summon all of these heroes (except Hawkgirl and Robin) to help her finish rescuing her dad. To have one long story run between 5-and-a-half different books to tell one 6 part story... In 1966-67?
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.

When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
Shock
Posts: 2978
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:27 pm
Location: Connecticut USA

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Terrific! Aquaman! Liberty Belle! Dr. Fate!)

Post by Shock »

Ares wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:28 am
As for Order and Chaos, basically which side is 'Good' depends on the writer, and while Order is generally good while Chaos is evil, you'll get the occasional writer who flips it around and makes Chaos the good guys.

Which is stupid. Order and Chaos are two extremes that equally bad. You need Order to give things structure while also needing Chaos to allow for freedom of choice and spontaneity. Ideally, any sane person would be fighting against both Order and Chaos and be striving for harmony. It should really be more like while the Lords of Order and Chaos are both groups of powerful mystical beings, they aren't completely unified. Some of them lean more good, some lean more evil, many of them lean more towards the middle, and the ones on the far extremes are bad for everyone. With the Lords of Order and Chaos that empower Hawk and Dove being the ones closest to actually wanting harmony.

Otherwise they need to clearly define just what these guys do.
Order as a stand-in for Good and Chaos for Evil is a mostly British concept. Moorcock leaned on it heavily and other contemporaries of his used it as well. The Order of Law vs the Chaos of barbarism is also something that comes up a lot in writing throughout history as many writers pit their civilized heroes vs primitive outsiders seeking to destroy the homes of good people.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Mr. Terrific! Aquaman! Liberty Belle! Dr. Fate!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Davies wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:56 pm He also featured in a mini-series that was the last thing Gerber wrote, dying before it was finished; the last issue was an anthology of possible endings put together by some of the man's admirers.
Ah, neat! I think I'd heard something like that (Gerber's fans in the industry writing a tale he inspired using some tropes he liked, maybe?), but not the context.
User avatar
catsi563
Posts: 4130
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:29 pm
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Aquaman! Liberty Belle! Dr. Fate! Zatara!)

Post by catsi563 »

Zatarra would get a major push in the New Young Justice series as well. First as a member of the league then taking over as Dr Fate to save Zatanna. then in the most recent season where many angles would be explored including his faith and why he made the choices he did as well as his origin. We even get a really neat look at the Phantom stranger
Dr. Silverback has wryly observed that this is like trying to teach lolcats about Shakespeare

Showdown at the Litterbox

Catsi stories
Post Reply