Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Orbiter
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:39 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Black Canary! The Manitous! Black Lightning!)

Post by Orbiter »

Regarding Black Canary's martial arts skill "often given TONS of cred in her own book, but not as much elsewhere", in Pre-Crisis Justice League comics, Batman often recognized that she was more skilled than him. And as far back as the first edition of Mayfair's DC game, that was acknowledged by rating his Martial Artist skill at 10, while the Canary was an 11. Dinah's a bad-ass such that too many people don't recognize.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Maya

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

MAYA (Chandi Gupta)
Created By:
Gerard Jones & Ron Randall
First Appearance: Justice League Europe #47 (Feb. 1993)
Role: Forgotten Character
Group Affiliations: Justice League Europe
PL 8 (72)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+5)
Perception 2 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Magic) 2 (+7)
Stealth 2 (+5)

Advantages:
Ranged Attack 3

Powers:
"Mystical Bow Fire" Blast 9 (Feats: Variable- Water or Fire) (19) -- [20]
  • AE: "Enhanced Physicality" Enhanced Strength 5 & Speed 3 (16 mph) (13)
Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Bow Fire +7 (+9 Ranged Damage, DC 24)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +2, Fortitude +4, Will +4

Complications:
Enemy (Evil Cult)- A cult hunted Maya for a long time.

Total: Abilities: 34 / Skills: 10--5 / Advantages: 3 / Powers: 20 / Defenses: 11 (72)

-Maya is a teen girl who developed elemental powers at a young age, and ended up in a cult that thought she was an incarnation of the Hindu God Shiva (Maya is actually named after the Hindu Goddess of Illusions, though). When she discovered the cult was going to sacrifice her, she ran away and joined Justice League Europe. She does some uneventful stuff, and is largely-forgotten to history. I was confused by the name at first- sure, it's an established Hindu deity, but to most readers, the name "Maya" evokes the Mayan culture.

-An amateur superhero, Maya could enhance her Strength & Speed, but usually just shot Mystical Bow Fire (first from a Bow, then by herself).
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Black Canary! The Manitous! Black Lightning!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Orbiter wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 5:08 pm Regarding Black Canary's martial arts skill "often given TONS of cred in her own book, but not as much elsewhere", in Pre-Crisis Justice League comics, Batman often recognized that she was more skilled than him. And as far back as the first edition of Mayfair's DC game, that was acknowledged by rating his Martial Artist skill at 10, while the Canary was an 11. Dinah's a bad-ass such that too many people don't recognize.
Interesting- I didn't know it went back that far!
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

JSA Rundowns- Classified

Post by Jabroniville »

"JSA: Classified #1-4", written by Geoff Johns, art by Amanda Connor

-So JSA's continued success as one of DC's top sellers could only mean a spin-off was obvious, and it turns out it was gonna be an "Avengers Spotlight On..." type of deal, the first one going to Power Girl, the character Geoff Johns has been single-handedly pushing as something big since he started on the series. And it's an Infinite Crisis tie-in!

-So the whole plot is that PG's powers are still in flux (it's been recurring for like years now), and she starts to figure out why, as the Psycho Pirate is manipulating her emotions and memories. Lots of stuff gets dealt with, but Connor's cartoonish art style, while very good and unique, is like Ed McGuiness', in that she draws so BIG and with so few panels, that you can read the entire series in like fifteen minutes. Compare that to Johns' usual super-wordy books and it's kind of annoying.

-New origin story: PG came to Earth thinking she was Superman's cousin, but she wasn't. LAMEST EXCUSE EVER: Kara says that she only wears the women-offending boob-window because she had "nothing to fill that hole" because she never belonged. Yeah, RIGHT.

-Turns out she's Andromeda from the Legion of Super-Heroes, sent back in time! No wait, she's Ursa from the Phantom Zone Kryptonians (led by Zod)! Nope, she's from the Crime Syndicate Earth! Damn, half of these origins could EASILY have been as cool as what we eventually got.

-In any case, after much brawling about, it's revealed to be Psycho Pirate's trickery via Luthor, and PG just beats the snot out of him. Between this and Infinite Crisis, we get the whole story: She's the Kara Zor-L of Earth-2 from Pre-Crisis like she ALWAYS was, but much like Donna Troy, the universe couldn't 'fit her in', so it gave her a bunch of lame-ass excuses. She finally found her origins and her family, but they all died in the Crisis, so she's left even MORE depressed and angry than before! YAAAAYYYYY!!!!

JSA: Classified #5-7", written by Jen Van Meter, art by Patrick Olliffe

-Totally different creative team, as becomes usual for the series by this point. It's one that actually focuses on the VILLAINS' side of things, as the Injustice Society makes it's big return, showing an Icicle-based perspective of how to set up an invasion of a super-team's HQ. The new ISA line-up is Icicle, The Wizard (having returned with a demon possessing him), Solomon Grundy, Ragdoll, Tigress (who Icicle is now in love with), The Thinker, and now The Gentleman Ghost makes a comeback to DC.

-So it's kind of a unique viewpoint, as they sneak into JSA HQ during their weakest manpower hours (nobody else is even close) to steal Prometheus's Cosmic Key thing. The big brawl is pretty tiny, actually, as Icicle threatens Ma Hunkel to get Jakeem Thunder to drop his T-Bolt pen. Stargirl loses to Solomon Grundy, and the Ghost grabs the Cosmic Rod to beat Jakeem. Tigress actually BEATS Wildcat in hand-to-hand (though not easily), which is nuts. I mean, this guy's supposed to be among the TOP DOGS, and once beat ALL the Injustice Society by himself. Guess it's an off-night for him.

-But it turns out the Society from Infinite Crisis gets word of their mission and WANTS THE KEY, so they send in an attack team of Talia, her sister (apparently she has one- I had no idea), and some "Ubu" goons.

-The Injustice boys do pretty poorly, but manage to fight back the goons (only Grundy is really immune to bullets), but Ragdoll pulls his usual selfish stunt and steals the Key for himself, trying to gain it's power. Instead, the Key disintegrates his entire body, as per what Icicle & Wizard expected, anticipating just such an occurence and knowing the 'price' for activating it.

-Turns out the whole deal was to get Johnny Sorrow back. He flash-fries most of the Ubus, and the Al-Ghul sisters flee. The JSA recovers but Sorrow & Co. are long gone thanks to the key, and Artemis & Icicle are back together and in love and stuff. Aww.... But Sorrow has an EVIL PLAN... but we never see it. I don't think this ever gets brought up again, as a matter of fact, even in the Classified series.

-That's all the Classified issues I have (well, there's the start of a Stargirl dealie where the JSA are forced to FIGHT IN AN ARENA, which is TOTALLY ORIGINAL AND WASN'T DONE SIX TRADES AGO OR ANYTHING, but that's all I have from it), actually, but if anyone knows any arcs that were good from it, let me know. It went up to about #37 before being cancelled, and didn't seem to make a dent in regular JSA continuity at all.

The Review: Tough to say. The Power Girl issues were very good, but horribly decompressed and quick to read, ultimately being skippable later on. Connor's art was the highlight, as it's all bright and cartoony, but PG still looks sexy. The Injustice Society arc was quite interesting, but most of the characters in it aren't exactly fully-fleshed-out, and most importantly- their plan never WENT ANYWHERE, because nobody thought to follow up on them. An obvious weak point in the JSA lineage, but really it's just the subsidiary series that adds extra stuff to people, so it's no big.

Best Moment: The multiple origins of Power Girl, which could've easily been used as her real origin.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

JSA Rundowns- Ghost Stories

Post by Jabroniville »

"JSA: Ghost Stories" (#82-87)- written by Paul Levitz, art by George Perez, Jerry Ordway, Rags Morales & Luke Ross
JSA line-up: Sand (not present), Wildcat I, Green Lantern I, Stargirl, The Flash I, Dr. Mid-Nite III, Mr. Terrific II, Jakeem Thunder, Power Girl, Hourman II (not present)

-So the final arc of the JSA's run comes without Geoff Johns as writer, so it feels completely different from the others. I think Johns was busy with his nine other monthly titles at this point.

-Our first mostly-Post-Crisis collection starts off with Power Girl & Ma Hunkel reminiscing over the Lois Lane of Earth-2's stories of Superman & Batman of the Golden Age fighting the Gentleman Ghost, an old JSA enemy last seen in the Classified issues. Kind of weird to see 'regular' Earth-1 people suddenly inundated with Earth-2 stuff again. Kind of old-timey and goofy (looking back on the old days) for my taste, but to each their own...

-Now we boot into One Year Later all of a sudden. It's REALLY odd how the series waited a full storyline before stopping and restarting with new numbers and plotlines; they're all talking about 'this past bizarre year' and how the JSA hasn't had a meeting in MONTHS. I REALLY dislike the whole OYL idea, actually. Not from a storyline standpoint ("52" is actually a good read), but the fact that it automatically AGES everyone a full year, then gives us this FAT bunch of blanks to fill. I mean, a whole YEAR goes by in these people's lives? After ALL that went before, with constant events happening every other week? And the aging process-- it doesn't matter as much for Batman or Mr. Terrific, but now all the TEEN characters like Stargirl pop ahead one year! Stars was sixteen before, making her at LEAST seventeen here, going on eighteen, so suddenly she's nearly an ADULT before some of us were ready to say goodbye to the sweet little girl!

-Jakeem Thunder meets the ghost of a big brother he never knew, and Joan Garrick gets creeped out by one as well. And we get into the mix of the story, as the modern Gentleman Ghost reminisces about his OWN origins as a wannabe highwayman, the son of noble blood and a common woman, turned out onto the streets like a Charles Dickens character. I can't express how truly WEIRD it is to suddenly see a GIANT history given over several issues for a super-villain, after over 80 issues of them just being the means to an end and a regular threat, with little focus on their motivations.

-Note: The JSA line-up's only changed a tiny bit in the OYL gap- it seems Hawkgirl's no longer on the squad, as she gets put into the Justice League right around here. Oh well, she wasn't really being used in this series AT ALL for the last like five trades. Poor Atom-Smasher basically vanishes ENTIRELY, not even getting a mention. So much for "waiting for him", huh, Courtney? Hourman & Sand aren't here either- Rick's probably having fun on his honeymoon, but who knows with Sand? Johns just kinda writes AROUND him, not dealing with him, y'know? Though in this case it's Levitz's fault.

-Stars & Terrific talk about the past year and textbooks and the importance of learning. I see Stars still has the braces and the "I hate school!" attitude, so she's still the same girl. Poor Michael gets to see his dead wife come back as an evil ghosty thing. Mid-Nite deals with the fatalities of his medical practise.

-Green Lantern floats about with a big glowing eye, since he lost one in a Zeta-Beam projector accident in "52", though they DON'T MENTION THAT AT ALL HERE. The whole JSA (or what's left of it- Sand's not here either) sits down and chats about the ghosts. Hey, the Thunderbolt is still Johnny/Lkz after all. OK, then. The Ghost comes in to threaten them, then vanishes.

-The JSA has trouble believing that Jim Craddock really IS a ghost, which is asinine considering they fought the Spirit King three trades (and one year *sigh*...) ago, and deal with The Spectre all the damn time. More Craddock past stuff (his mom dies and leaves him alone, so he becomes a pickpocket), and Jakeem finds out that his brother died before he was around, dying with their grandmother. I really like the art in these old segments, though- very Olde Englishe and stuff.

-A gypsy tells Craddock his fate (he'll go on as a ghost highwayman, but if he can slay the ones he hates the most, he'll LIVE AGAIN!), and Green Lantern is put into the hospital by some FALLING BEAMS, thanks to Craddock's ghost-helpers. Yeah, the guy who can go toe-to-toe with a 900-foot-tall shadow being and speed up time for an entire civilization nearly gets offed by debris.

-Courtney has trouble learning to drive. Hee, this is amusing. Amusing also is the fact that she can't hurt the Gentleman Ghost while someone like Power Girl CAN, leaving Craddock to state that he's "too much of a gentleman" to explain WHY.

-Weird bit as Jakeem & T-Bolt go to "Where the ghosts live", and end up being attacked by the Ghost's evil friends, but SAVED by the dead JSAers of old (Batman, Terrific, Jade, Sandman & Atom in this case). Batman I says one of "noble blood" will defeat Craddock in England, and Jade's ghost goes to see Alan Scott and gets him to recover from his life-threatening debris-based injuries.

-Jerry Ordway takes over the art for a bit from the always-good Rags Morales and his Shaded Eyeballs, and he's fairly old-school and competent here, I must say. Ghost harasses them AGAIN (this series just keep repeating that same occurence over and over again), Stargirl goes through him again, and again he vanishes. Ordway draws a pretty good Courtney here (appropriately big-headed and skinny), with none of the flaws his 'later' work shows.

-One part of the JSA (the fighty, powerful ones, plus Wildcat) goes to England (and it turns out WILDCAT is the one with 'noble blood', being descended from a Duke), and the other stays as the Brownstone.

-Waitaminute, JAKEEM can hurt the Ghost, while Courtney couldn't! HOLY CRAP, THE KID'S A PLAYER (makes more sense when you figure out why Court can't hurt him)!!! The Ghost actually KOs Power Girl and Green Lantern (how powerful IS he, if he can do that, but can't beat up Ma Hunkel & Stargirl?) and runs off again.

-My favourite moment of the whole trade, as it's MA who basically browbeats and berates Michael into realizing just WHY Stargirl is immune to the touch of ghosts- She's a VIRGIN. Well, duh.

-Big final battle is just Craddock and his ghost buddies (turns out they're all on his side because his mother's spirit has gone one-by-one through the spirit world to gather them) versus the JSA. Just then, in WINDSOR CASTLE, the Knights of the Round Table or something show up to fight on the JSA's side, and it's Wildcat (vs) The Gentleman Ghost in a swordfight to the finish (Stargirl shows up from across the Atlantic- apparenly the Cosmic Rod is FAST- to get Alan to go back to save the Brownstone from another ghost barrage)!

-One big final sword-slash, and Craddock dies a ghost's death (hey, they crapped on ATOM SMASHER for killing someone- those dinks!).

-JSA HQ is pretty much destroyed (AGAIN), and everyone mopes about the 'old times' like it wasn't wrecked already in "Virtue & Vice". PG & Stargirl bond like it's the first time ("the start of a beautiful friendship") even though she was all Mama Bear to her a few trades ago, which is odd.

-And there, that's it for the JSA's regular series, as they take a year or something off, and Johns reboots it with Dale Eaglesham!

Roster Changes: Hawkgirl's gone I guess, but nothing else is different.

Review: This trade just feels weird all over. From the "hey, Earth-2 guys are back in business" stuff, to the fact that it's a MAJOR arc set around just ONE member of the Injustice Society (who normally only threaten the JSA as a group) and his past history, to odd little bits like Alan nearly dying to random debris to Atom-Smasher's vanishing without a trace and people aging a whole YEAR without even acting like much is different. And the threat just feels so... MINOR, thanks to a stand-in writer who probably couldn't make any major changes. Though I guess the series had to settle down EVENTUALLY, much like the Morrison-era JLA did, with smaller stories to offset all the giant events. Gentleman Ghost of all people nearly killing the ENTIRE JSA with an army of ghosts is bizarre enough. But hey, at least Jakeem Thunder did something. Altogether... it's not a BAD trade, just feels like a minor one, is all.

Very few major things get settled or dealt with, which is the MOST bizarre thing in an already weird, out-there Trade- the series ENDS on this note! By all rights, this should have happened BEFORE One Year Later, thus allowed the reboot to FIT with the rest of DC's reboots, so instead it's like... "Hey, here's a One Year Later arc, but it's just a casual fight against the Gentleman Ghost, but after this we just stop the series and bring it back with a whole new concept!"

Best Moment: Ma verbally berating Mr. Terrific for being an "overeducated MORON!" while explaining that Courtney's immune to ghosts by virtue of being pure and virginal is pretty funny, though the Knights of the Round Table coming to help the JSA is pure comic-book whackiness and isn't unappreciated.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

JSA Rundown (the 1990s-2000s run)

Post by Jabroniville »

The JSA Run-Down:
(I'll still do the latter bits of the Johns/Eaglesham series)

(EDIT: these are like 2007 Jab’s opinions so don’t @ me, haha)

So yeah, this is pretty much my favourite ongoing run on a book since the "Golden Age" of awesome comic runs (by which of course I mean the X-Men & Titans runs of the 80s, thank you very much), and pretty much brought me into the DCU as an interested part rather than someone making fun of all the stupid costumes, how Superman is better than everyone automatically, and how everyone's a clone of another hero. Most of these characters I wasn't even REMOTELY familiar with beforehand (Sand, Wildcat, Power Girl), and yet Johns & Co. basically made me a fan of nearly every character on the team, which is a spectacular feat.

What's crazy is that it's just EVENT after EVENT, but unlike Morrison's JLA, there's tons of downtime as well, so you get character bonding and development. There's Al & Courtney's brother/sister thing (which develops into potentially more as things go on), Al & Black Adam's brotherly bonding, Stargirl & Captain Marvel's adorable dating, Terrific & Mid-Nite's growing friendship, the old-school triumvirate of Ted/Alan/Jay, the various feuds with Carter "Hawkman" Hall, his thing with Kendra, PG's relationships with the group's women & Wildcat, etc.... it's just a WORLD of interpersonal things going on, and it fits that they all get developed during the craziest of stories.

My personal favourite is of course "Black Reign", as it's the heaviest and most brutal arc they face, along with one of the ones that doesn't end happily for anyone. Very heartbreaking and emotionally mature storytelling. Though nearly EVERY arc from the debut until Goyer leaves is purely excellent, and it's when Johns takes over fully that things kinda slow down and get a little worse (but also better at points). It's pretty safe to say that Goyer's part in the title involved Dr. Fate's stuff, since Johns apparently couldn't WAIT to get rid of that character & concept, but otherwise, there weren't too many notable changes aside from the slow-downs in events.

Personal favourite moments involve the whacked-out plan to get rid of the King of Tears, and the various stuff with Courtney & Al, my favourite characters of the run. Yeah, I'm the horrible SHIPPER quoted so often on TVTropes, deal with it! I just love the two characters so much, and think it'd be adorable if they were to hook up when she got older. One of my major beefs with the book comes when he just vanishes from it, and we don't get any explanation for how Stargirl feels about him anymore, because that's just a REALLY clumsy dropped storyline, and yeah I still hate how Captain Marvel just Fs off and doesn't come back, too.

For other flaws during the full run of #s 1 through 87? Well, there's the power level issue. In a book with Green Lantern I, Dr. Fate AND Jakeem Thunder, things got a little out of hand in several ways. One in that all three could end a battle single-handedly, and sometimes did so (Alan versus Obsidian twice, Jakeem versus Mordru & Ultra-Humanite), and TWO in that there were LUDICROUS points where one or all of them would be KOed two seconds in so that the villains could serve as a real threat. When the Injustice Society speared Alan with a supervillain disguised as a crossbow bolt, it was COOL and seemed SMART. But when Dr. Fate is "Off trying to find Lyta" EVERY OTHER ARC, or Jakeem is either curiously absent or having his throat cut by an evil wizard or being knocked out by the Brownstone falling over, you get the sense that MAYBE these guys should just be less powerful? How hard is it to write "OK, Jakeem's sick of being KO'd, so now the T-Bolt's a permanent part of him, but he's an electric-controlling blaster who can't just snap his fingers and make bad guys go away"? Or "Dr. Fate's given up half his power to hold back a demonic onslaught, so now he's only REALLY powerful instead of being able to end a fight by farting"? If it's THAT hard to write all-powerful guys, then just MAKE THEM LESS POWERFUL.

The time travel issue always comes up when dealing with Johns, and it's a fair criticism, but understandable considering that it's a team based around legacies. OF COURSE they're going to meet up with their 1940s counterparts once in a while! And a guy like Carter's got so many lives, it only makes sense to meet a few of them. But yeah, a little too much. Going back to the 40s just to meet Mr. Terrific I and the Freedom Fighters? The mini-arc in Ancient Egypt? Flash going there once? The JSA going to the '50s to get their predecessors back in the fight? The Hourmen/Extant thing? Kinda excessive.

But still, it's an awesome series. And I'll review the subsequent arcs in the Reboot too, but this feels like a good time to sit back and judge this portion of it as a whole, since it gets so much different from this point on.


Character Run-Down:
There's been a CRAP-LOAD of members of this group over the past 87 issues, but here goes...

Atom Smasher (Albert Rothstein)- One of my favourite characters by far, despite his ignominious origins as Nuklon the Mohawked 80s Wonder. I usually attach myself to the "Strong Guy" of each team because of the interesting personalities they often get in comics, and he's no exception. The "Nice & Normal" guy of the team, he was the happiest to be on it, yet things just went wrong for him. His mom dying (bringing her back didn't make him feel any better), Kobra going free, Kahndaq falling apart, etc, and then Black Adam goes and makes friends with him, twisting him to his ideals. His relationship with Courtney is fascinating, as he's pals with her like a brother, but she seems to have unresolved feelings for HIM, and who knows where that leads? THEN he gets his whole 'redemption' schtick, going against Adam, and saving the people of Kahndaq from the Spectre! Probably the best 'why there's a No Killing Rule' examples I can think of in comics as well. Clearly a writer favourite for quite some time, as he's the guy who stopped Kobra, Extant, Per Degaton AND The Spectre during the series' run, which is a RIDICULOUSLY high body-count for 'just the strong guy', in addition to wrecking half the JSA in Kahndaq. Which makes it all the more bizarre when he vanishes from the book during the later arcs & the re-boot.

Black Adam (Teth-Adam)- Wow, WHAT a villain/anti-hero. Gone from basically a generic 'reverse colour scheme' bad guy to one of comics' greatest in just about fourty issues, all thanks to Geoff Johns being crazy in love with the idea. His rivalry with Atom-Smasher turning into a huge bromance, complete with taking over a whole country (showing us how deadly a Flying Brick at Supes' level would be in a fight), fighting the JSA, and STILL coming out looking like he just might be correct (at least before he showed the REAL dark side of such a man- that of an aggressive killer with a hair-trigger temper)? Well that's just nutty. His whole imperious "Black Adam does not scatter!" personality is a killer as well, being hilarious in addition to awesome.

Black Canary II (Dinah Lance)- Funny how she was such a major part of the early run, but got dropped like a hot potato once Kevin Smith brought back Green Arrow. She got an issue or two of narration, was close to several of the old guard, comforted Atom-Smasher a lot, and had that nice little relationship with Dr. Mid-Nite before you-know-who came along. She pretty much doesn't show up AT ALL after that, except to stick the knife deeper into poor Pieter. She's one of DC's finest heroines, but there just wasn't a chance to shine in here.

Captain Marvel (Billy Batson)- I'm not as big a Cap fan as most on these boards. I've always viewed him as just a Superman wannabe who picked up on fun things to do with the concept before Supes did (ie. younger version, girl version, animal sidekicks), but still horribly ancient and left back in the '50s. The huge fanbase online he has now is more because he's Superman who's LESS successful as a character, and thus you can be more 'unique' if you like him instead of Supes. That's my take on it anyways. Despite that, he's still pretty cool in this series, especially once he & Courtney hook up. A little excessively powerful, despite never really DOING anything most of the time, I'm still a fan. It's kind of lame that he's always too tied up in his own crap to be a real JSA member anymore, because this is the best he's ever been when he's not under Alex Ross' masturbatory control.

Doctor Mid-Nite III (Pieter Anton Cross)- Another great new character, despite his lack of fighting power (watch- he never beats ANY villain, at best holding off Johnny Sorrow once). They do a bit of the "RPG Game Master" trick of having every character get SOMETHING to do by constantly injuring the JSA members just so he can save their lives, but the real meat of this guy is in his characterization as the super-perfect, ultra-liberal, sensitive Religious Guy, becoming kind of a nice, moral centre for the team. He's the only one to congratulate Al on saving The Atom, and kind of another resolute background character- the book wouldn't be the same without him.

The Flash I (Jay Garrick)- I used to HATE this Flash. When I was a Marvel fanboy growing up, I thought Jay was the biggest example of how lame DC was compared to my beloved Marvel books (him & Aqualad I guess). This series made me learn to love him, as this Mr. Rogers in Tights type of guy who was super-polite and smart, always willing to do what he could to help out. Truly an elder statesman. The story with his son is just heartbreaking and gives him a whole new edge as well. A little sad, though- he & nearly ALL the older generation either never had kids, or had them grow up hating their parents.

Green Lantern I/Sentinel (Alan Scott)- Another great Elder Statesman character, but the responsible, stern dad to Jay's happy Father Knows Best type and Ted's Al Bundy. He was clearly WAY too powerful for the book (going down like three times in seconds, JUST so the villain could have a chance at winning), often used as a Deus Ex Machina when the time came, he's still a cool character, and one of the most necessary for the book. He's one of the few guys on the team who is actually COMPLETELY irreplaceable, because with Superman & Batman I gone, he's the living symbol of the older age.

Hawkgirl II (Kendra Saunders)- Confusing backstory aside, Kendra was kinda like Hawkman, being a general grouch and unlikeable for a good length of time. She kind of got charmingly grouchy near the end, but still, not a huge fan. They seemed to be going for a 'sexpot' look to her at first (stripping nude to go flying, lots of butt shots), but it didn't work because of the super-short hairstyle (not a bombshell look), big nose and goofy mask with the buggy eyes. And if you're on a super-team, you better be either hot or cute, and she's neither.

Hawkman I (Carter Hall)- Yeah, not a Hawk fan. I don't care HOW much Geoff Johns loves him, and how much everyone else on the team talks about how good a leader or a fighter he is; he's a giant douche who's out for blood, mean to everyone, a total horn-dog to Kendra, and doesn't fit in well in a group situation. That said, I actually like him on the book; team books are all about CONFLICT inside the team, and who brings more than Captain Grumpy, here? Many of the most interesting moments occured when he was around, egging people on.

Hourman I (Rex Tyler)- I got a kick out of Rex coming back- eager to fight, but felt 'off', like an action junkie and an old-fashioned party-hound in a modern world. I guess that's why he was written out as soon as Rick came back.

Hourman I (Rick Tyler)- Totally saved from Comics Limbo/Hell in "Stealing Thunder" as the leader of the resistance, Rick never really approached that level again. They had some stuff with his addictive personality, but it was thankfully dropped before it got tiring/whiny, and he just became a strong-headed generic guy in the background. He's kind of a prick though, and a little too happy-go-lucky sometimes. I'm not sure if I would like this blow-hard if I were to ever meet him in real life, y'know?

Hourman III (Michael Tyler)- Take Vision & Red Tornado, and update them with weird Morrison-written ideas about time and the future and crap, and you have this mess. Clearly none of the writers cared for him, which is why HE was gone two trades in as well. Probably my least favourite member of the team, because IN ADDITION to being a re-tread, he had bizarre "Time Vision" powers that gave him either extremely vague abilities, or let him heal from any wound in seconds, making nothing a real threat to him. Total death-sentence of a character. I wasn't really sad to see him 'die' in Rex Tyler's place, and sure as shootin' if they didn't even bother to resurrect him like they implied they would.

Jakeem Thunder & Thunderbolt/Johnny Thunder- How can you tell you've been created to be WAY too powerful? When you're either absent for every other freaking story arc with no explanation, or KO'd in seconds in the others! Geez, and the worst part is, he's actually a pretty good character! Initially a little turd acting like a stereotypical black street rat, he grew up a little bit, got some edge, and starting making friendships with some of the JSAers. His brother-thing with Rick/Hourman didn't really go anywhere, but he's still a fun little character. Just so, SO powerful. I mean, what would it take to have him go "Hey, T-Bolt! I'm sick of getting KO'd all the time, so how 'bout you just empower me with lightning blasts all the time, yo?" so he's less vulnerable, but ALSO less powerful? He could still figure into the battles, but they don't have to worry about him just wishing the villain into the Sun or some crap.

Mr. Terrific II (Michael Holt)- One of Geoff Johns' favourites, despite not being created by him, Michael's awesome. Usually the Science Guy is boring or sucky, but Terrific is neither, actually getting an interesting focus with his grief over his wife's death, plus his lack of faith in religion or gods or souls or what have you. A fascinating character study, and a great leader to the team, always the smartest guy in the room and getting them out of a jam. A little TOO smart sometimes, though, where they're afraid to have him screw up EVER.

Power Girl (Karen Starr/Kara Zor-L)- Talk about a saved character; initially she was just a hyper-bitch who acted like the Hulk with knockers, smashing stuff and talking about how she could handle anything. Injecting some pathos over how lonely she was comes across as a bit whiny, but pretty much made her at least SOMEWHAT interesting. Geoff Johns clearly likes the character, it's the only reason I can come up with for SUCH a giant amount of focus on her compared to the rest of the team (she even got the first 'focus' portion of "Classified", and became the most important single character in Infinite Crisis!). I'm still not THAT big a fan (and not even THAT enamored of her still-ridiculous bustline- it's just TOO comically oversized and apparent with the "Boob Window" that I can't help finding her laughable), but I'm somewhat of one, which is alot more than I was at the beginning of the run.

Sand (Sandy Hawkins)- Totally a labour of love of David Goyer it seems, as he fell out of favour the second Goyer left the title. Basically saved from the Scrappy Heap (ie. Comics Limbo) and turned into a legit character with a good backstory and decent powers, it nevertheless felt like they just tacked-on geokinesis to make him better in a fight, and then he just got dropped HARD during Johns' solo run on the book (with his romantic thing with Kendra gone as well). He's actually got a fair following online, so I'm not sure WHY they keep de-pushing him the way they do, but it's clearly happening. There's been several trades where he only shows up for a few moments, and more where he's written out entirely (his stint inside the Earth's core, in Ghost Stories where he's just not there for some reason), to the point where he's nearly completely forgotten by the end of the run. Kind of a shame.

Stargirl/Star-Spangled Kid II (Courtney Whitmore)- One of the greatest comic characters ever- a REALISTIC teenage girl- not super-smart or capable or spunky or any of the usual cloying crap. Just a somewhat-immature teenager who could be kind of a cranky brat, but was still ultimately a great person who saw the bright side in everyone. Dangerously close to being a Mary Sue thanks to Geoff Johns' making sure everyone commented on how awesome and full of potential she was, he counteracted it by having her be the most useless member in a fight (her best power showing is against GOONS, and she once lost to three orderlies & a doctor with a needle). Her little-sister/crush on older dude Atom-Smasher thing was handled PERFECTLY (especially her heartbreak when he quit, nearly died, and then got sent to prison while she insisted she'd wait for him), as well as her cute high-school fling with Billy Batson. And she's one of the few teenage girls in all of comics not drawn as even a C-Cup or with a giant bubble-ass and big pouty lips. AND I'M NOT IN LOVE WITH HER DAMMIT- I save all my creepy-dork-lovins for Donna Troy, Maxine Hunkel and Kitty Pryde (adult version, of course, ya pervs).

Starman VI (Jack Knight)- Despite his '90s series being so beloved, I got nothing from this guy here. Didn't show up very much since his own book was nearing it's end at this point, and kind of acted like a super-kewl '90s tool the entire time.

Wildcat I (Ted Grant)- I love Ted Grant. It's nice to see a 1940s-based hero who ISN'T a super-PC ultra-nice fake version of what men back in that era were like. The fact that they take it one step over and make him a bit of a blow-hard and a tool is even better, and he's one of the few surefire comedic members of the team. Not much good in a fight, though- he gets his ass kicked in nearly every arc except against the Gentleman Ghost.

Wonder Woman I (Queen Hippolyta)- The first character written-out, acting as a Reserve member from the beginning, then quitting by the second trade after not doing any characterization AT ALL, then dying in Wonder Woman's own book. Well I guess it had to happen since she was under the control of other writers (note how her & Canary suffered the same fate because of that, so the book became solely about JSA-only people). She just wasn't a good fit for this book at all.


In Order of my favourites (for this series only, ignoring other appearances):
1) Atom Smasher
2) Stargirl
3) Black Adam
4) Mr. Terrific II
5) Wildcat
6) The Flash I
7) Sand
8) Green Lantern I
9) Black Canary
10) Captain Marvel
11) Dr. Mid-Nite III
12) Power Girl
13) Hourman II (Rick)
14) Jakeem Thunder
15) Hawkman
16) Hourman I (Rex)
17) Hawkgirl
18) Hippolyta
19) Starman VI
20) Hourman III (Matthew)
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue May 31, 2022 3:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Phantom Stranger

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE PHANTOM STRANGER (Real Name Unknown, aka Judas Iscariot, The Brotherless One, Grey Walker)
Created By:
John Broome & Carmine Infantino
First Appearance: Phantom Stranger #1 (Aug. 1952)
Role: Omniscient Protector
Group Affiliations: The Justice League of America, The Quintessence, The Trenchcoat Brigade, Justice League Dark
PL 16 (369)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA -- AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 12 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 14 AWARENESS 10 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Deception 4 (+8)
Expertise (History) 10 (+24)
Expertise (Current Events) 10 (+24)
Insight 10 (+20)
Intimidation 10 (+14)
Investigation 10 (+20)
Perception 10 (+20)
Stealth 10 (+13)

Advantages:
Beginner's Luck, Jack-Of-All-Trades, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 10, Startle, Well-Informed

Powers:
"You Cannot Kill Me. I Don't Think The Universe Would Allow It"
Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
Immortality 20 [40]
Protection 20 (Extras: Impervious 13) [33]

"Omniscience"
Features 1: May Spend an HP and Ask the GM Anything [1]
Senses 6 (Vision Counters Illusion, Analytical Vision) [6]

Teleport 20 (Extras: Extended, Accurate) (80) -- [84]
  • AE: "Smoke Itself Is My Ally" Affliction 12 (Fort; Fatigued/Exhausted/Asleep) (Extras: Area- 15ft. Cloud) (24)
  • AE: "Goes Anywhere" Movement 9 (Time Travel 3, Dimensional Travel 3, Space Travel 3) (Extras: Instantaneous) (27)
  • AE: "Dispel Magic" Nullify 16 (Magic Effects; Broad, Simultaneous) (48)
  • AE: Energy Blast 20 (Feats: Improved Critical 2) (Extras: Penetrating 10) (52)
Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Magical Blast +10 (+20 Ranged Damage, DC 35)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +20 (+8 Impervious), Fortitude --, Will +14

Complications:
Motivation (Saving People)- The Phantom Stranger appears to walk the Earth, saving lives & souls as time goes on- many origins link him with Heaven, making up for past mistakes and misdeeds.
Secret (Lots of Stuff)- Most people have no idea of anything about the Stranger.
Power Loss (Being Useful)- The Stranger typically only aids the heroes- he doesn't end crises by himself. This is apparently an order from on high (either God or an Editor who doesn't like deus ex machina storytelling).
Relationship (Cassandra Craft)- An attraction existed between the Stranger and the blind psychic; ultimately, he felt she couldn't be a part of his eternal life and let her think he had been killed fighting the Dark Circle.

Total: Abilities: 110 / Skills: 74--37 / Advantages: 15 / Powers: 194 / Defenses: 13 (369)

The Phantom Stranger- DC's Most Mysterious Mystery Man:
-I've actually read MAYBE one comic featuring the ol' Phantom Stranger. here, and even then he didn't actually do anything- I basically know NOTHING about the guy. He actually debuted before the Silver Age began in some weird Anthology series bearing his own name, but is best-known for being a mysterious, supernatural figure that assists heroes like the JLA on weird cases. He's so mysterious that there are FIVE potential origins, generally themed around him making up for past mistakes by saving people in the real world for eternity- the first four introduced in a single issue of Secret Origins, written by (who else?) Alan Moore:

-In #1, he is a man named Isaac living in Bethlehem during the life of Jesus- his wife and son were killed by King Herod's purge hunting the future "King of the Jews"- angry at Jesus over this, he bribes a Roman guard to take part in the flagellation, and is cursed by Christ to "tarry in this world- until I come again". He finds the task so fulfilling that he politely declines an offer from God to release him from this penance. In #2, he was spared God's wrath by an Angel during Biblical times, but commits suicide- the Angel refuses him from Heaven and reanimates him, condemning him to walk forever as part of humanity, yet separated from it. His divine charge is to turn humanity away from evil, one soul at a time. In #3, he is a being caught in a time loop- discovering a group of scientists at the time of time who were about to doom the universe from ever existing (they were trying to siphon Big Bang energy to extend the universe's life-span, as it was nearly ending), he possesses one of them, intercepting the beam- this transforms him into the Phantom Stranger, completing the circle. In #4, he was a fallen angel who sided with neither Heaven nor Hell during Lucifer's rebellion and was thus condemned to wakl the Earth alone for all time. John Constantine finds that this is the correct version. The New 52 introduces Origin #5: he's Judas Iscariot himself!

Actual Phantom Stranger Appearances:
-In his early shots in the 1950s, the Stranger is a Houdini-esque "Hoax Hunter" out to prove that supernatural events are caused by criminals. Later on, he was given full-blown supernatural powers himself (before that, he was shown mysteriously coming & going without being seen), and is then seen helping out the League (who induct him as a member, not realizing he'd left already- later writers would repeatedly disagree on whether or not he counts as a member). He's usually Mr. Vague about everything, popping up in a puff of smoke to help out, and disappearing just as quickly. In 1969, the character got his own book again, lasting all the way until 1976! A pretty good run! It featured with stories by Robert Kanigher, Len Wein, Jim Aparo, Neal Adams, Tony DeZuniga and others, and introduced a supporting cast and rogue's gallery (so THAT'S where Tala from Justice League Unlimited came from!), including a blind psychic named Cassandra Craft who had a will they/won't they thing with him (acknowledging a mutual attraction, the Stranger ultimately felt she couldn't be a part of his life, and let her think he was dead).

-Much later on, he features heavily in Neil Gaiman's The Books of Magic, taking Tim Hunter through time to show him the history and nature of magic. In The Shadowpact and other books, he runs afoul of beings like Eclipso, The Spectre (Hal Jordan) and others, and was depowered, but is generally regarded as invincible ("You cannot kill me. I doubt the universe would allow it"). He later was shown as a mentor to Hal as the Spectre, but generally bounced from book to book in minor roles or acting as narrator.

The Phantom Stranger's Powers:
-The Phantom Stranger is a classic example of one of those guys who just does vague stuff that's rarely-explained. Even DCA cheaps out and makes him PL X, because he has even less-defined capabilities than THE SPECTRE (who at least has quite a few solo books to his name). This is mainly Wikipedia-built, but I believe he's shown all of what's above, and with an 80-point base power, he could easily use a Power Stunt for nearly any other power.
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Re: JSA Rundowns- Classified

Post by Sidney369 »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 9:00 pm
-New origin story: PG came to Earth thinking she was Superman's cousin, but she wasn't. LAMEST EXCUSE EVER: Kara says that she only wears the women-offending boob-window because she had "nothing to fill that hole" because she never belonged. Yeah, RIGHT.
Does Power Girl have that boob-window because she's a strong, confident woman who's not afraid of displaying her sexuality (like was shown in JSA #39)? No, she's sad because she can't define herself by a male hero.
Jabroniville wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 9:21 pmHawkgirl II (Kendra Saunders)- . They seemed to be going for a 'sexpot' look to her at first (stripping nude to go flying, lots of butt shots), but it didn't work because of the super-short hairstyle (not a bombshell look),
I don't understand. That was the sexiest thing about her.
Last edited by Sidney369 on Tue May 31, 2022 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Always ask before you use someone's Original Character.
Never ever use them without permission. Only Villains do that.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Black Canary! Black Lightning! Phantom Stranger!)

Post by Ares »

My personal take on the Phantom Stranger is as the Biblical Cain. I figure the hat is to hide the Mark of Cain, it explains his indestructible nature, and his mission of redemption as the first murderer is about "being his brother's keeper" to all mankind.

Also, one of my favorite "humanizing" moments for the Phantom Stranger was from the Hal Jordan Spectre series (pretty much the only part of the series I liked) when the Stranger was asked to watch Hal Jordan's niece. So the Phantom Stranger, immortal master of magic, offers to play board games with her.

Image

It's super cute.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Black Canary! Black Lightning! Phantom Stranger!)

Post by OwOMotaros »

Ares wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 2:11 am Also, one of my favorite "humanizing" moments for the Phantom Stranger was from the Hal Jordan Spectre series (pretty much the only part of the series I liked) was when the Stranger was asked to watch Hal Jordan's niece. So the Phantom Stranger, immortal master of magic, offers to play board games with her.

Image

It's super cute.
That's.....adorable.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Black Canary! Black Lightning! Phantom Stranger!)

Post by Ares »

OwOMotaros wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 3:29 am
Ares wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 2:11 am Also, one of my favorite "humanizing" moments for the Phantom Stranger was from the Hal Jordan Spectre series (pretty much the only part of the series I liked) was when the Stranger was asked to watch Hal Jordan's niece. So the Phantom Stranger, immortal master of magic, offers to play board games with her.

Image

It's super cute.
That's.....adorable.
I know, right? I love stuff like this. Things like Captain Marvel visiting a hospital full of sick kids and helping fulfill their wishes by doing things like flying them to the bottom of the sea in a plastic bubble. Or Batman talking down a young criminal, practically begging the kid "Don't become what killed our families". Superman talking a suicidal girl down from a ledge, even though he himself is dying. Spider-Man spending time with a young boy dying of a disease.

I love the big fights. The epic adventures. The raw imagination. But I also really love the smaller moments, the little moments of humanity where a hero shows that they truly don't think they're better than anyone else and enjoy being around people, enjoy helping them, especially children.

If I ever get anything made, book or film, I'm going to have a superhero unironically get a cat out of a tree for a little kid. There's a reason one of my favorite heroes is "Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man".
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Antaeus

Post by Jabroniville »

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ANTAEUS (Mark Antaeus)
Created By:
John Arcudi & Scot Eaton
First Appearance: JLA: Superpower (Nov. 1999)
Role: Mid-Tier Superhero
Group Affiliations: The Justice League of America
PL 11 (139)
STRENGTH
11 STAMINA 11 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+13)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+9)
Expertise (Firefighter) 4 (+6)
Intimidation 2 (+4)
Technology 4 (+6)

Advantages:
Power Attack, Ranged Attack 10, Withstand Damage (Trade Defenses For Toughness)

Powers:
"Cybernetic Enhancements"
Protection 3 (Extras: Impervious 13) [16]
Flight 7 (250 mph) [14]

Blast 10 (Feats: Variable- Impact or Fire) (21) -- [22]
  • AE: "Gravity Control" Move Object 10 (20)
Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Blasts +10 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +14 (+7 Impervious), Fortitude +11, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Helping People)- Mark is incredibly-into saving people, and puts his entire focus into it.
Obsession (Superman)- Mark idolizes Supes, to the point of going over-the-top with it.
Vulnerable (Magnetic Attacks)- Mark is largely-comprised of metal.
Prejudice (Obvious Superhuman)- Mark no longer looks human.

Total: Abilities: 86 / Skills: 12--6 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 50 / Defenses: 9 (139)

-Another guy I've never heard of, Mark Antaeus was injected by his scientist father with experimental growth hormones, which turned him into a Captain America-type elite physical specimen. He grew up to become a fireman who idolized Superman, but suffered a nervous breakdown after failing to save a family from a burning building- he returned having volunteered for a cybernetics program at STAR Labs. Despite being deformed by this, he was happy to be able to help people, and came to the attention of the JLA. An erratic, over-eager hero, Antaeus only teams with them for this one book, going into the Middle East and killing the Saddam-like dictator in charge of some Country of Evil. Humorously, this is actually BEFORE Black Adam leads his army into Khandaq, and he is beaten by the JLA, then realizes that he has destabilized the country and only made things worse (... nah. Too outlandish and unrealistic), and commits suicide by allowing to let his internal nuclear reactor explode. So yeah, just a one-shot "Sad Story" kind of guy, but eerily-prescient.

-I mostly recall Ares going on a several-paragraphs-long rant about this (how out of character, right?), saying it was stupid and Superman especially came off like an idiot, over-sympathetic to an obviously unhinged guy, while Kyle Rayner, the only one who tried to befriend Antaeus, was treated like an idiot who didn't "get" him. Me, I just wonder what it is with the League allowing complete nobody rookies to show up, especially considering how paranoid Batman usually is.

-Mark is powerful enough to last a while against the ENTIRE Justice League, and it's stated that Superman's punches couldn't even dent his armor. Nonetheless, he fell due to internal damage to his hardware. PL 10 on offense, PL 10.5 on defense, thanks to his massive Toughness. Without New Character Stink, he'd probably settle down a little.
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Re: Antaeus

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 7:20 amImage
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Re: Antaeus

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue May 31, 2022 7:20 am -Another guy I've never heard of, Mark Antaeus was injected by his scientist father with experimental growth hormones, which turned him into a Captain America-type elite physical specimen. He grew up to become a fireman who idolized Superman, but suffered a nervous breakdown after failing to save a family from a burning building- he returned having volunteered for a cybernetics program at STAR Labs. Despite being deformed by this, he was happy to be able to help people, and came to the attention of the JLA. An erratic, over-eager hero, Antaeus only teams with them for this one book, going into the Middle East and killing the Saddam-like dictator in charge of some Country of Evil. Humorously, this is actually BEFORE Black Adam leads his army into Khandaq, and he is beaten by the JLA, then realizes that he has destabilized the country and only made things worse (... nah. Too outlandish and unrealistic), and commits suicide by allowing to let his internal nuclear reactor explode. So yeah, just a one-shot "Sad Story" kind of guy, but eerily-prescient.

-I mostly recall Ares going on a several-paragraphs-long rant about this (how out of character, right?), saying it was stupid and Superman especially came off like an idiot, over-sympathetic to an obviously unhinged guy, while Kyle Rayner, the only one who tried to befriend Antaeus, was treated like an idiot who didn't "get" him. Me, I just wonder what it is with the League allowing complete nobody rookies to show up, especially considering how paranoid Batman usually is.
Well, get ready for round two.

The book really was a mess. I get what the writer was going for, wanting Antaeus' story to be this tragic affair about a good man who made one mistake and was unable to live with the guilt of it. The problem was, the story did a piss poor job of executing that idea.

Mark was portrayed as someone who genuinely wanted to help, but was also someone who'd spent his entire life 'expecting to win'. Like he'd conditioned himself to never even consider failure. So the first time he did fail, it broke him so badly that he had his entire body rebuilt as a cyborg so he could be a 'proper superhero'. He's quickly admitted into the Justice League, but he became so obsessive about being a hero that he cut off his family, his fiancé, all traces of a normal life, to be a superhero 24/7, and he actually moved into the JLA HQ on the moon so he could always be on call. He completely cut himself off from any kind of human interaction that wasn't about being a superhero, and he became more and more unhinged as time went on, eventually culminating in him killing a military dictator Black Adam style. Only where Adam set himself up as the new leader and ensured that the country would not fall to instability, Mark wound up just creating a power vacuum where other warlords stepped in, and the lack of a clear rulership caused the country's infrastructure to collapse, resulting in countless people starving to death (while the Justice League just . . . watched, I guess?). In a fit of guilt, Mark cracks the containment on the nuclear reactor that powers him and explodes, killing himself.

This could serve as a tragic story about someone who couldn't accept failure and who went too far in the pursuit of heroism . . . except for it to work as a JLA story, there Justice League has to . . . BE THERE. And let this stupidity happen.

See, when the League first meets Mark, Kyle (being the most human and normal of the group) is the first to greet Mark and try to befriend him. Mark brushes past Kyle and starts gushing at Superman. Later, when Mark gets injured helping the League fight villains, Kyle is the one who transports Mark to STAR Labs for repairs, but all of Kyle's attempts to bond or get to know Mark are basically just brushed off.

After that incident, the League discuss bringing Mark into the League, and Kyle is the only one who actually brings up any objections. The others talk about how eager Mark is to help, how capable he is, how powerful he is, etc. The rest of the League basically come off as viewing Mark solely as a collection of powers, capabilities and a heroic desire to help, while Kyle is viewing Mark as a person and pointing out how INSANE the guy's behavior is. How he actually had 90% of his body replaced with cybernetics willingly, how he doesn't have a secret ID or social life, how obsessive his behavior is, etc. He rightly points out that Mark literally gave up his entire life just to get more power. In any rational world, Kyle is being the voice of reason.

Diana dismisses Kyle's objections as Kyle simply being annoyed that he doesn't get along with Mark. J'onn is the only person on Kyle's side noting that there are issues with Mark that can't be dismissed as Kyle having a grudge. Superman says that Mark's methods are "drastic" but he has a clear vision. Batman of all people comes up to Kyle and says, "So you're saying that if someone works to improve themselves, they're less trustworthy than someone who lucked into their powers, or has a magic ring?" Which is insane coming from Bruce. At that point, Kyle should have asked why Batman didn't get those same cybernetics. Kyle tries to defend himself by pointing out that there's a difference between working out and getting cybernetic augmentation, but then Aquaman glares at him like it's some sort of self-own. They literally equate Aquaman's hook hand (which he got after he lost his original hand in a fight) to volunteering to have most of your perfectly healthy body cut away and replaced with machines. Kyle just gives up at that point.

The very next thing Mark does is move to the moon, permanently cutting himself off from his previous life. Kyle is the only one who visits Mark, and while he mentally lists off how unstable Mark is acting, he reminds himself to try and get along with Mark. They talk, Kyle tries to bond with Mark over being the new guy, but again, Mark completely dismisses Kyle's attempts. And again, when Superman shows up, Mark blows off Kyle to follow Superman around.

Later, at a JLA meeting, Mark complains that the League isn't doing 'real work', and wants to take out the dictator of a country where people are suffering. Batman explains that the League can't shape the destines of other countries because that's outside the scope of their responsibilities. There are consequences to such actions that even they can't foresee. Mark gets frustrated, smashing the table, claiming that the League doesn't understand at all, and storms off. The Flash wonders "What happened to him all of a sudden". Kyle rightly states "All of a sudden? Where have you BEEN the last SIX WEEKS?!" Superman states that Mark is "passionate and maybe overzealous, but that doesn't make him insane". Clark does finally admit that maybe Mark doesn't belong there.

Again, the book makes it clear that Kyle has really been the only person paying attention to Mark at all for over a month, and the rest of the League only sees Marks issues when he literally shoves them in their faces.

So Mark attacks the nation and kills the dictator. Mark claims he was justified, and that now there's "One less murder in the world".

Kyle responds "Not the way I add it up".

Mark gets pissed, but Superman shows up and talks everything down, convincing Mark to surrender. And then Kyle makes his only genuine mistake of the issue. He jokingly says that if Mark's lawyer opts for an insanity plea, Kyle will happily testify to that. It's a dumb statement, but I can't help by sympathize with Kyle feeling a bit of vindication at that moment. And even with that remark, it doesn't excuse what Mark does next.

Which is turn around and tackle Kyle through a wall, then prepare to kill the now unconscious and defenseless GL. When the League moves to stop him, Mark attacks them and attempts to flee. He's able to fight the League mostly by either sucker punching folks like J'onn with fire, or keeping folks like Superman distracted saving the Flash (who he uses anti-gravity to launch into the air). He trades punches with Superman decently, but again, Clark is able to talk him down, and once again, Mark flees.

And Superman tells the League to LET MARK GO. Superman says the collateral damage is too much, and that he was wrong to try and stop Mark in the state he was in. That they need to let Mark cool down and talk to him later.

Instead of . . . you know . . . waiting til Mark is away from the city and you can stop him now. Considering the city you're in is in the middle of a frickin desert, and once you're away from the city there's literally no one to be hurt for a hundred miles in any direction.

But Mark leaves, and apparently in the WEEKS that follow, there's a civil war in the country, thousands dead, starvation, etc. And for some reason, Mark didn't get involve in any of that, nor did the League manage to capture him in that time. So Mark kills himself out of guilt.

Later, the League find Mark's helmet, and they discuss things. Wonder Woman expresses some guilt, and Kyle says that this never should have happened.

Superman says "I never should have rushed him into the JLA. I said that the day he resigned, but if it makes you happy to hear it again, fine. Now please, leave it alone. Let it go."

I just . . . Superman sound so PETULANT there. Like "Fine Kyle, you were right, I was wrong, PLEASE stop bringing it up".

Kyle responds that, "No, no. It's not that at all. I'm not getting any satisfaction from this. I didn't want the guy to die. What I was going ot say was, with all the power he had, and the way he'd started acting, maybe it's better this way, that's all. I mean, who knows what he would have done next?"

" 'What he would have done next'?!" Superman says as he angrily grabs Mark's helmet. "THIS! This is what he did next! Why do you keep acting as if he were some kind of homicidal maniac? He wanted to help people. But he went too far, and he knew it . . and he couldn't stand it. He wasn't a bad man. He was a good man . . . who did a bad thing. And if you can't tell the difference between the two . . . "

Superman turns his back to Kyle, walking away as the rest of the League look at him. ". . . then what the Hell are you doing here?"

And that's where the damned book ends. With Superman walking away from Kyle, bemoaning the loss of such a good man who went too far, and what a terrible person Kyle is. It's utterly mindboggling.

Like I said, I get the point of what the story was going for, of how good people can let bad experiences drive them too far. The problem is, the only way the story works is if the Justice League act like complete imbeciles. You have folks like Superman and Wonder Woman, two of the most compassionate people on the planet, who seem to view Mark only through the eyes of "being a hero". They view him as a collection of powers and a heroic drive, rather than a person. Batman, who knows first hand the result of trauma and deals with obsessive people on a weekly, if not daily, basis, justifies someone mutilating themselves for the sake of power and their obsession. The Flash, someone who is just as much an everyman and a nicer guy than Kyle, actually ignores Mark's issues, makes no effort to befriend him, and is surprised when Mark goes crazy. Aquaman just stoically supports Batman. J'onn is the only one who offers any support for Kyle, but said support is ignored in favor of Superman's recommendation.

Basically, the League treat Mark like a weapon, Kyle treats him like a person, and yet Kyle is portrayed as being in the wrong for thinking that Mark was crazy. Mark was a walking collection of red flags that the League ignored basically because Superman liked the guy and because he was a Superman fanboy.

Basically, this story only works if everyone, save Kyle, is acting out of character. Which paradoxically means the story doesn't work.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Orbiter
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:39 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Black Canary! The Manitous! Black Lightning!)

Post by Orbiter »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 6:39 pm
Orbiter wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 5:08 pm Regarding Black Canary's martial arts skill "often given TONS of cred in her own book, but not as much elsewhere", in Pre-Crisis Justice League comics, Batman often recognized that she was more skilled than him. And as far back as the first edition of Mayfair's DC game, that was acknowledged by rating his Martial Artist skill at 10, while the Canary was an 11. Dinah's a bad-ass such that too many people don't recognize.
Interesting- I didn't know it went back that far!
The dividing line is "The Longbow Hunters". Everybody knows that the injuries that were inflicted on her in that story took away the sonic powers, reason given for that being they wanted the Green Arrow series to come afterward more street-level and "realistic", so no super-powers allowed. I believe it was at least implied that physical and emotional trauma also diminished her combat ability, not to make it street-level but to make her a sidekick in GA's series and not crowd the star of the show. But she's all better now.
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