Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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Ken
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Firehawk! Geo-Force! Metamorpho! Etrigan!)

Post by Ken »

Moon Maiden was a sad attempt to try to kind-of-sort-of get the Tomorrow Woman vibe going.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Firehawk! Geo-Force! Metamorpho! Etrigan!)

Post by Ken »

The thing about Kingdom Come, the initial series, is that whenever possible, Ross made it as JSA-ish as possible.

Look at the Justice "League" Superman assembles when we first see them:
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A grey-at-the-temples Superman
An aging Wonder Wonder Woman
Alan Scott
A Hawkman with a full 2-sided beak (a la Carter pre-1947)
A Flash with a winged helmet
Power [strike]Girl[/strike] Woman
An adult Robin (not shown)
...
and the Ray

With the Ray being an outlier, the rest just smacks of the 1970s JSA.

So, I for one wasn't surprised when all this Kingdom Come stuff made it into the 2000s JSA book. DC wanted to keep pushing Image stuff. Where else could it have been done.
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Animal Man

Post by Jabroniville »

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ANIMAL MAN (Bernhard "Buddy" Baker)
Created By:
Dave Wood & Carmine Infantino
First Appearance: Strange Adventures #180 (Sept. 1965)
Role: "Doom Patrol Fandom" Hero
Group Affiliations: The Justice League of America, The Forgotten Heroes
PL 10 (157)
STRENGTH
2/9 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+6, +16 Peak Animal Forms)
Athletics 4 (+6, +16 Peak Animal Forms)
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Science) 10 (+12) -- Flaws: Limited to Biology
Expertise (Acting) 4 (+6)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 4 (+6)
Insight 2 (+4)
Intimidation 2 (+4, +14 Peak Animal Forms)
Investigation 4 (+6)
Perception 3 (+5, +16 Peak Animal Forms)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Stealth 1 (+5, +13 Peak Animal Forms)
Vehicles 1 (+4)

Advantages:
Animal Empathy, Fast Grab, Set-Up

Powers:
"The Web of The Red" Variable 9 (Animal Powers) [63]
Comprehend 2 (Speak To & Understand Animals) [4]

Samples Powers:
"Animal Fighting" Enhanced Advantages 7: All-Out Attack, Defensive Attack, Improved Hold, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Startle, Takedown (7)
"Worm's Healing" Regeneration 6 (Feats: Regrows Limbs) (7)
"Falcon's Flight" Flight 6 (120 mph) (12)
"Elephant's Might" Enhanced Strength 7, Enhanced Stamina 7, Increased Mass 3 (31)
"Tyrannosaur's Bite" Enhanced Strength 7, Enhanced Stamina 7, Increased Mass 3, Strength-Damage +2 (33)
"Cheetah's Fleetness" Speed 5 (60 mph) (5)
"Lion's Roar" Enhanced Intimidation 10 (5)
"Animal Senses" Enhanced Perception 11, Senses 10 (Low-Light Vision, Infravision, Extended Vision & Hearing 2, Ranged Touch, Tracking, Ultra-Hearing & Vision) (15.5)
"Bat's & Dolphin's Sonar" Senses 2 (Accurate Hearing) (2)
"Sailfish Swimming" Swimming 8 (120 mph) (8)
"Flea's Leaping" Leaping 4 (60 feet) (4)
"Hippo's Smell" Affliction 4 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned) (Extras: Sustained +2, Area- Scent Perception) (Flaws: Limited Degree) (12)
"Skunk's Spray" Affliction 5 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned) (Feats: Accurate 2) (Extras: Ranged) (Diminished Range -1) (11)
"Fly's Reflexes" Enhanced Advantages 2: Improved Initiative 2 (2)
"Bug Movement" Movement 2 (Wall-Crawling 2) (4)
"Fish's Gills" Immunity 3 (Cold, Pressure, Drowning) (3)
"Pistol Shrimp's Sonic Blast" Affliction 10 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned/Incapacitated) (Feats: Reach) (21)
"Chameleon's Skin" Concealment 2 (Vision) (Flaws: Passive) (2)
"Knifefish's Jolt" Damage 8 (8)
"Cockroach's Immortality" Immunity 1 (Radiation) (1)
"Predator's Stealth" Enhanced Stealth 8 (4)
"Whale's Toughness" Enhanced Stamina 7, Immunity 2 (Pressure, Cold) (16)
"Predator's Fitness" Enhanced Athletics 10 (5)
"Simian's Dexterity" Enhanced Acrobatics 10 (5)

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
T-Rex Bite +9 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +4 (+12 Peak Animal Powers)

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +4 (+11 Animal Powers), Fortitude +6 (+13 Peak Animal Powers), Will +7

Complications:
Relationship (Family)- Buddy is devoted to his wife Ellen and children- Cliff & Maxine.
Responsibility (The Red)- Buddy is an Avatar of the lifeweb of all living animals. He is a vegetarian, fights for animal rights, and the environment.

Total: Abilities: 56 / Skills: 38--19 / Advantages: 3 / Powers: 67 / Defenses: 12 (157)

Animal Man- Failed Silver Age Guy to '80s Esoteric Star:
-Animal Man made his debut as a pretty forgettable background hero with a lot of "typical" superhero aspects- big letter-logo on his costume, alliterative real name, powers from aliens, etc. He was in five issues of Strange Adventures before becoming "one of those guys" who made random appearances in various books, never quite mattering. He was only in ELEVEN COMICS between 1965 and 1985, as a matter of fact- a prime candidate for a complete restructuring. This came in the late 1980s, by way of some weird Scottish writer by the name of Grant Morrison- Morrison, a shroom-eating weirdo with delusions of grandeur and a rebellious, aggressive spirit, was a natural for the "British Invasion" of comics at the time, and sought to do some new stuff. And a loser gimmick like Animal Man was PERFECT for that kind of thing.

-What little I've read of his Animal Man was quite good (wait, I read some of that? I totally forget that now), and very "Standard Morrison"- genre-breaking stuff, frequently leaving the costume behind, stuff obviously invented while Morrison was tripping balls, a few great ideas mired in a pit of weird. Baker's family are assassinated by some evil businessmen who dislike his activist career, and after murdering them, Buddy tries to undo his family's deaths via a time machine, but instead learns to accept his grief after talking to the Phantom Stranger and others. Along the way, Animal Man meets characters not currently being used, and then Morrison himself, when Baker questioned why so many horrible things were happening to him, and the nature of creator and creation. Buddy returns to his own time with his family mysteriously resurrected- it's left ambiguous if Buddy remembers that happening at all. The character starts off kind of being a fame-seeking wannabe actor, but slowly adopts a more responsible, if moralistic and heavy-handed, approach to things.

-There's a GREAT issue where a guy who experiments on animals is himself merged with a Chimp by B'wana Beast (whose power is to stick animals together), with a final panel showing a close-up of a tear rolling down his cheek as he prepares for the surgeon's scalpel. Morrison turned Buddy Baker into a PETA-like crusader for animal rights- he became a vegetarian (echoing Morrison's own politics, naturally) and helps eco-terrorists fight evil fishermen. However, he was also an everyman- one of the few heroes with an actual FAMILY- a wife and children and everything! Buddy briefly joined Justice League Europe during its early run, making him a Leaguer "officially".

Post-Morrison Animal Man:
-After Morrison left a couple years in, Animal Man's powers were elaborated upon- he'd copy things like a Salamander's Regeneration after losing an arm to a villain. He discovered the greater "Web of Life" of The Red, the culmination of the planet's living animals (similar to Swamp Thing becoming an emissary of The Green- all the plant life). Tom Veitch wrote for 18 issues (with Steve "Preacher" Dillon on art) and Jamie Delano for 29. His book switched to Vertigo, and got a bit more "adult". Buddy started dying a bunch (being resurrected as the "Animal Avatar"), and things got EVEN WEIRDER (Buddy becoming a non-human animal god) before falling sales killed the book with Animal Man #89. That sorta thing happens when a writer disappears entirely up his own ass. After that, Buddy was reduced to mainly supporting roles again, showing up as a minor character in 52, showing up on the "Space Team" with Adam Strange & Starfire. There's some funny bits where Ellen (a pretty, if normal-looking woman) is QUITE annoyed at the attention Buddy lavishes on Starfire, though it proves to be quite platonic. But like, can you blame Ellen AT ALL? Look at Starfire!

-Buddy got his own solo book by Jeff Lemire with the Nu52, and it was one of the big hits in my opinion- though the initial story took WAY TOO FREAKING LONG at points (a major problem with comics these days- as they use more elaborate art but thin out the actual content of the book so stories take forever to get finished), it was one of the best things being produced in comics. The ways the characters interacted with each other (Ellen's mother, always a grump who hated Buddy's part in making all their lives so F'd up and dangerous, confesses she doesn't hate him purely because it's so clear how much he loves Ellen and the children), and the FREAKING CREEPY avatars of The Red (seriously- UGH), the book had a style all its own. Some of the one-off issues (like one featuring Buddy in an Animal Man movie that was just like The Wrestler) are phenomenal stuff, and things started picking up after the Red/Green/Rot War FINALLY got finished. The book was cancelled not long after the main story arc wrapped up, though.

Animal Man's Powers:
-Buddy is a good, all-around PL 10 hero, able to use the INCREDIBLY-varied powers of Earth's animal species (and, if he's in space, alien animals- even Sun-Eaters!)- basically, the more of an Animal Nerd the writer is, the more powerful Buddy Baker becomes- read enough Cracked.com articles and he'll be busting out a Mantis Shrimp's Sonic Blast, Noxious Chemicals, Immunities to any damn thing you can name, and any Sensory power imaginable. Or just plain kick ass like a T-Rex or an Elephant would. Mixing and matching he can hit 45 points' worth of boosts, even altering his fighting style if necessary.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Firehawk! Geo-Force! Metamorpho! Etrigan!)

Post by Jack of Spades »

I can never encounter Etrigan without trying to rework Ray Stevens' classic "Gitarzan" into a song about the rhyming demon.
Etrigan! And his demon band!
Let's give 'em a hand, they're all you can stand!
Etrigan!
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The Elongated Man

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE ELONGATED MAN (Randolph William "Ralph" Dibny)
Created By:
John Broome & Carmine Infantino
First Appearance: The Flash #112 (May 1960)
Role: Stretchy Hero, Detective, Regular Guy
Group Affiliations: The Justice League of America, The Doom Patrol
PL 8 (150), PL 9 (150) vs. Physical Impacts
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 6
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+7)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10)
Deception 5 (+8)
Expertise (Streetwise) 4 (+7)
Expertise (Science) 4 (+7)
Insight 4 (+8)
Investigation 9 (+13)
Perception 4 (+8)
Persuasion 2 (+5)
Stealth 2 (+6)

Advantages:
Evasion, Fast Grab, Grab Finesse, Improved Defense, Improved Disarm, Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Interpose, Ranged Attack 3, Set-Up, Teamwork, Tracking

Powers:
"Elastic Body"
Elongation 6 (400 feet) [6]
Immunity 5 (Falling Damage) [5]
Protection 2 [2]
Protection 2 (Extras: Impervious 5) (Flaws: Limited to Physical Impacts) [6]
Movement 2 (Slithering, Safe Fall) [4]

"Elongation Tricks"
"Malleable Form" Insubstantial 1 (Feats: Precise) (6) -- [10]
  • AE: "Complex Lifting Structure" Power Lifting 4 (3,200 lbs.) (4)
  • AE: "Form Shapes" Morph (Shapes) 2 (Flaws: Limited to Simple Shapes) (Quirk: Retains Colours -1) (4)
  • AE: "Flat Sheet" Flight 2 (Flaws: Gliding) (2)
  • AE: "Hammer/Ball Fists" Strength-Damage +4 (4)
"Nose Twitch" Features 1: May Spend a Hero Point and Detect a Mystery or Clue [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Hammer Fists +10 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +6 (+8 vs. Physical Impacts), Fortitude +5, Will +7

Complications:
Relationship (Sue Dibny)- Ralph worshipped and adored his wife Sue. When she was killed, he was completely shattered.
Motivation (Solving Mysteries)- Ralph loves to solve mysteries, and once travelled America in a convertible to solve them.

Total: Abilities: 70 / Skills: 40--20 / Advantages: 14 / Powers: 34 / Defenses: 12 (150)

The Elongated Man- The Worst Codename Ever:
-Elongated Man was created largely by accident- Julius Schwartz wanted a sidekick for The Flash, but noted that he he'd have known that DC owned the rights for the popular Golden Age hero Plastic Man, then he'd have never chosen "Elongated Man" as a name. In addition to having one of the worst names in comic book history, he also has one of the stupidest ORIGINS- a teen fascinated by contortionists, he discovered that all of the successful ones drank a popular soda called "Gingold", he learned chemistry and made a super-concentrated version of "gingo" fruit and gave himself elasticity, becoming the greatest contortionist ever. He thus becomes a superhero and helps out The Flash on some cases- he's one of the first Silver Age heroes to marry his love interest- a cutie-pie named Sue. He showed up sometimes in Detective Comics as a back-up feature, but wasn't a major thing until he joined the Justice League of America in the early '70s, becoming a staple of the book.

-He & Sue had a... oh my God... a STABLE, HAPPY RELATIONSHIP IN A COMIC BOOK. What in the HELL?!? That's IMPOSSIBLE! Unfortunately, I dismissed him out of hand as a kid because... well, his goddamn name is THE ELONGATED MAN. Look at his damn costume! One of the lamest superhero powers combined with THAT outfit and THAT name! It was like he was BEGGING to be disliked! Though well-thought-of by many fans, he was absent for most of the '90s, to the point where Grant Morrison put his own fave, Plastic Man, on the Big Seven JLA instead of Ralph, permanently altering the course of both characters, as Ralph became a nobody again and Plaz became the preeminent stretchy guy.

Identity Crisis- Ralph Goes Screwy:
-He was the central figure in Identity Crisis, a controversial and consequential story at DC in the early 2000s. He narrates much of the first issue, talking about how he met Sue and how much he loves her ("Diana's beautiful, but she's only second best" "She's my lady"), but is horrified in the end when Sue is horribly-killed and badly burned in the process. His grief feels overwhelming and the heroes desperately try to find the killer. And of course some crazy backstory is added, featuring Doctor Light (the villainous original) invading the JLA satellite and raping Sue when she was alone, and the League assaulting him (Ralph brains him with Hawkman's mace) and ultimately re-programming Light's mind so he is permanently altered by it. The perpetrator turns out to have been Jean Loring, an Atom character who just wanted her own ex-husband back, accidentally killing Sue when it was just supposed to be about getting all the heroes to spend more time with their wives. Jean went on to become Eclipso (stupid) and pretty well vanished, which makes the whole thing pointless. Ralph thus becomes a widower with an even MORE tragic backstory.

-The sad thing about the book is, while there were a lot of issues regarding the subject matter (My roomate: "Is he RAPING her?... Ugh- I don't wanna read comics about that!"), the half-assed way they offed certain people (Firestorm- a major character in the 1980s- gets all the focus and gravitas of the freakin' Ten-Eyed Man in The Crisis on Infinite Earths), the increasing darkness in comics books, or the way certain characters were portrayed or shown (Deathstroke handing a squadron of Leaguers their asses while they carefully attack him one at a time in melee like they're henchmen on the Batman series)... it was actually REALLY WELL WRITTEN. Aside from all the bad writing, I mean. The dialogue was often excellent- Ralphs description of his relationship with Sue, the funeral, and the way the characters interacted with each other- all of that was great. The art by Rags Morales was his career-best stuff (there's a GREAT shot of Wonder Woman that's basically just the Lasso on her hip). It's just... they shoulda had a better Editor covering it. Brad Meltzer is clearly a very talented writer, with something great to offer comics (though he's largely a novelist by trade), but somebody needed to look at some of that and go "no, Brad- this needs to be a different way". But that kind of became a weird thing in all of comics by the 2000s- writers were now kings of the castle instead of artists, and BY GOD they were gonna use that power and never be told "No", and so we had... comics after the 2000s.

Post-IC Ralph:
-So Sue was killed off in a big story (she hadn't been a major character in eons, so it's not like it affected the universe too much- it was just kind of an unnecessary downer in a decade of HUGE downer stories), leaving Ralph despondent. He is an important part of 52, though I didn't find his over-arching storyline (resurrecting Sue, but actually planning to betray Felix Faust) very interesting, and he is killed at the end of it- his own plan to be with Sue once again. They end the story as Ghost Detectives, basically disappearing for the most part, aside from a few hints or quickie appearances here and there.

-On JLU he was played by Jeremy Piven of all people, and got some of the best lines for a side-character. They basically made fun of how low-level he was. When a whole ass-load of Leaguers get called down to fight Viking-hat himself, Mordru The Dark Lord, Ralph & Booster Gold get stuck on "Crowd Control", since they're the worst heroes there. As Green Lantern even says to poor Ralph, "We've got Plastic Man down there already! We don't need TWO stretchy guys!" Ralph is perturbed, but gets called in to fight anyways once Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman get merged together by Dark Magic. Since it's Booster's solo episode, we get a long story featuring him, and then RIGHT at the end, we get one of the funniest moments in the show's history: Ralph is shown pulling in an unconscious Mordru, with all the others congratulating him. GL walks up and says "that was about the SLICKEST move I have EVER seen." Yup, he kicked Mordru's ass OFF-CAMERA.

The Elongated Man's Powers:
-Elongated Man's like a lower-level Reed Richards in most ways, being a weak PL 8 front-line fighter with PL 9 Defensive capabilities, but he's got some nice tricks, AND he's a good Detective. Not BATMAN good, but he's still pretty good. He can form Hammer Fists (I think), lift stuff better than most guys his size, fold between a doorframe, stick his nose down a chimney, and Glide lightly.
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Ken
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Re: The Elongated Man

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:49 pm (Deathstroke handing a squadron of Leaguers their asses while they carefully attack him one at a time in melee like they're henchmen on the Batman series)
#1) I can find plenty of examples where the henchmen on Batman attack in numbers greater than one. Don't make me prove this.

#2) The writers of Batman never had the writer rewriting the capabilities of the people fighting mid-fight....
a) Flash forgetting every new power stunt he'd learned between 1993 and 2003
b) Pulling a bag over the head of a Black Canary with a canary cry results in s shredded bag not a stopped power
c) Deathstroke's powers have never before include Senses: Microscopic Vision 5, especially since it's a power with a maximum of 4 ranks
d) If the Atom is large enough to be visibly targeted, it means photons are bouncing off of him, harmlessly, and reaching the retina of the targeteer; if the Atom is small enough that the photons from a laser pointer pose a threat, random photons in the environment would pose the same threat; he would be both impossible to visibly target and completely stupid to shrink to that precise size
e) Hawkman's anti-gravity metal is in his BELT. Divesting him of his wings will make it hard for him to steer; it won't make him fall
f) Kyle Rayner's stock in trade is creating giant green constructs to subdue his opponents. "Hmm, this guy fights like Batman with Aquaman-ish strength, I'll fly into melee combat with him." I know a lot of people didn't like Kyle but Geeze-us H. Krighst, he wasn't a moron. Unlike Meltzer.
g) Slicing the fletching off Oliver's arrows is clever, but it does still leave all the stuff on the business end in play.

I had the annoyance of predicting Sue Dibny's death after hearing one sentence about Identity Crisis shortly after it was announced. My dealer was annoyed, too, because as soon as I said "I'll miss Sue" he knew I was right.

As I've said earlier, in 150+ issues of JLA that the JLA had the Satellite, Sue was shown aboard once.

I'm still waiting to find out which league member was on Monitor Duty while Dr. Light was raping Sue.

Normally, the reveal of a murder mystery happens in the book with the murder mystery, NOT a second title.

I'm still waiting when the whole G-damned classic Justice League discovered Clark Kent is Superman. In the JLA titles from early 2001, it was still a closely guarded secret known by just the then current League (and for half of them they learned it then).

Fiction stories normally have a denouement and a resolution. Identity Crisis lacked both.

How does a theoretical physicist get admittance rights at an asylum for the criminally insane?

So, what was wrong with "Ray, I made a mistake with Paul. do you think we could give it another chance?"


I tend to call Brad Meltzer a hack. This is unfair behaviour on my part, insulting hacks.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Geo-Force! Metamorpho! Etrigan! Animal Man!)

Post by Jabroniville »

So Ralph is the last of the proper Justice Leaguers to post! All that’s left is two minor spin-off groups- the JL Elite & Antarctica.
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Justice League Elite

Post by Jabroniville »

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JUSTICE LEAGUE ELITE:

-So this is a thing that happened.

-'Twas a Limited Series in 2004 by Joe Kelly & Doug Mahnke, depicting a... oh god... BLACK OPS TEAM of Justice Leaguers, designed to do stuff so the JLA won't have to. And despite being the pitch for absolutely every comic Image produced in the 1990s, this was a DC book from less than TWO DECADES AGO. They were comprised of members of The Elite (a team of Authority-style douchebags set against Superman to show why their brand of heroics sucked ass- largely a "Take That" because THE AUTHORITY was non-stop "Huh-huh modern superheroes are BOLLICKS, guv'nor, what?" that frequently used other company's characters as vulgar victims of parody.

The team was:
Sister Superior: Sister of Manchester Black, The Elite's first leader. She's trying to atone for Black's douchery.
Coldcast: Inspired by Superman to fight for what's right.
Menagerie: Some alien weapon thing.
Naif al-Sheikh- Espionage-trained Arab.

Plus some other, previously-established members:
Manitou Raven & Manitou Dawn: Magical Expert.
Green Arrow (Ollie Queen): Tactical expert.
The Flash (Wally West): Questioning the League's tendency to only "react" to threats.
Major Disaster: Reformed bad guy with a tiny head on a huge body.
Kasumi: Asian Assassin. Actually Cassandra Cain, sent to spy by Batman.

They break up when Menagerie goes nuts and kills a foreign dictator. I'll stat the first four here, and the others are interspersed around this set.
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Sister Superior

Post by Jabroniville »

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SISTER SUPERIOR (Vera Lynn Black)
Created By:
Joe Kelly & Doug Mahnke
First Appearance: JLA #100 (Aug. 2004)
Role: Engineer Knock-Off
Group Affiliations: Justice League Elite
PL 11 (153)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 5 (+8)
Expertise (Black Ops) 8 (+10)
Insight 2 (+5)
Intimidation 3 (+6)

Advantages:
Power Attack, Ranged Attack 7

Powers:
"Cybernetic Arms" Variable 9 (Any Weapon) (Extras: Move Action) [72]
"Camouflage Tech" Concealment (Visuals) 2 [4]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Cybernetic Arms +10 (+12 Ranged Damage, DC 27)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +3, Fortitude +5, Will +5

Complications:
Motivation (Killing Superman)- For a while.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 76 / Defenses: 10 (153)

-Vera Black is the sister of Manchester Black, a Stereotypical Sinister Brit anti-hero who was killed fighting Superman in the whole Superman (vs) The Elite thing. She attempts revenge on Supes, having her arms (which were ruined in a childhood accident) replaced with cybernetics. She ends up working WITH the League, who ask her to form a Black Ops team- I have no idea why. She apparently has Variable Powered Cyber-Arms that provide a lot of stuff. She's sorta like The Authority's Engineer.
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Re: Justice League Elite

Post by EternalPhoenix »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:57 am Image

JUSTICE LEAGUE ELITE:

-So this is a thing that happened.
This was the inspiration for me to create my own squad of black ops "heroes", but yeah it was kneecapped from the start by including the Flash on both teams. And then it fell flat on it's face after the first arc, as greycrusader said in my thread, by basically doing regular Justice League stories with that cast.
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Re: Justice League Elite

Post by Ian Turner »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 1:57 am
The team was:
Sister Superior: Sister of Manchester Black, The Elite's first leader. She's trying to atone for Black's douchery.
Coldcast: Inspired by Superman to fight for what's right.
Menagerie: Some alien weapon thing.
Naif al-Sheikh- Espionage-trained Arab.
Menagerie was the most interesting, to me, kind of an organic Witchblade or Taboo (from Wildstorm) sort of deal, growing armor or claws or wings as needed, but having a few other tricks like being able to send out spider-like 'drones' on independent missions.

I like the versatility, one power serving offensive, defensive and utility roles (such as wings for transport, or usable for life-support, or enhanced senses), without necessarily being super-powerful like the Thunderbolt or a Green Lantern ring.
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Menagerie (Sonja)

Post by Jabroniville »

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MENAGERIE II (Sonja)
Created By:
Joe Kelly & Doug Mahnke
First Appearance: JLA #100 (Aug. 2004)
Role: Melee Fighter, Team Asshole (on a team FULL of assholes!)
Group Affiliations: Justice League Elite
PL 9 (153)
STRENGTH
5 STAMINA 5 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Deception 5 (+7)
Expertise (Black Ops) 4 (+4)
Intimidation 4 (+6)
Persuasion 5 (+7)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Fast Grab, Improved Critical (Claws), Power Attack

Powers:
"Symbeasts" Variable 8 (Physical Powers- Claws, Wings, Detachable Limbs- Summon, etc.) (Extras: Move Action) [56]
"Acidic Blood" Acid Aura 4 (Feats: Reach) (Extras: Secondary Effect) (Flaws: Limited to When Bleeding) [17]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Symbeast Stuff +10 (+8 Damage, DC 28)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +5 (+8 Body Armor), Fortitude +8, Will +2

Complications:
Relationship (Coldcast)
Enemy (Vera Black)- Sonja blames Vera for Manchester killing Sonja's sister.

Total: Abilities: 60 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 73 / Defenses: 7 (153)

-Menagerie is a name shared by a pair of twins- Puerto Rican sisters who share a symbiotic Alien Hive Mind thing called "Symbeasts". Pamela first appeared in Action Comics #775 as one of Manchester Black's Elite- explaining that they were kidnapped by the Men in Black (actually the D.E.O.), and fed the parasites that gave them powers. Defeated by Superman, Pam reveals to him that the team is acting against their wills- Black then mindwipes her into a vegetative state. Sonja appears as part of the JLE team, turning her hatred of the deceased Black to become a hatred of his sister Vera and the Elite- she works from within to damage the team. She gets Coldcast to murder a foreign dictator, but later bonds with him over their shared love for her sister. Sonja's eventually discovered, and de-powered.

-Menagerie's "Symbeasts" are basically another form of Variable, usually turning into Claws or Wings or something. They can also form stuff that detaches from her body and operates independently, which is like a Summon (one creature has a bite that can force others to tell the truth, another can make Bio-Electric Bursts- like FENRIS!). She can also be made to bleed Acidic Blood, sometimes causing her to deliberately get hurt in combat.
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Ken
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Re: Sister Superior

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 2:01 am Image
Image
Ah, the era where Diana was drawn like she had a gallon of Bat-spooge in her hair that she couldn't be bothered to wash out.
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.

When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

JSA Rundowns- Thy Kingdom Come Part 2

Post by Jabroniville »

"JSA: Thy Kingdom Come, Part Two" (JSA #)- written by Geoff Johns & Alex Ross, art by Dale Eaglesham, Jerry Ordway & Fernando Pasarin
JSA line-up: Green Lantern I, Flash I, Wildcat I, Hawkman II, Dr. Mid-Nite III, Mr. Terrific II, Power Girl, Jakeem Thunder, Stargirl, Sandman II (not present), Hourman II, Liberty Belle II, Obsidian (security system), Cyclone, Damage, Starman VIII, Wildcat III, Citizen Steel, Judomaster II, Amazing Man III, Lightning II, Mr. America III, Lance, KC Superman (ally)

-ANGER!! Cyclone is totally skipped over on the big double-wide roster page! They even list MA HUNKEL on there!

-Greatness to start off the second part of the Johns/Ross magnum opus, as Jakeem Thunder bitches at Stargirl, speaking for an increasingly large segment of the fanbase with "This team is too damn BIG!" Why is it that EVERY artist draws Stargirl's mask like it goes right up to her hairline with no skin showing at all? It's not like the hair's coming from UNDER the mask, either, you can actually see the bottom of the part in her hair OVER the blue. I guess it would be hard to draw without looking dumb. Jakeem storms into the room owned by Lightning, and his paused reaction upon seeing her is all you really need. GREAT facial expressions from Fernando Pasarin here, too (the guy's nearly as good as Eaglesham- I wonder why he didn't get to take over the book later), as Jakeem looks all dopey, Jennifer/Lightning is all cranky, and Stargirl is all sly and smiley in that cute way she always is.

-"... So hands off.... You too, Romeo." hah, I like Black Lightning.

-The team talks with the bruised Mr. America about Gog, realizing that he's been the Heartbreak Slayer all along. What the-- why does Pasarin draw Power Girl with the semi-updated detailed costume (with the lines going down the middle & sides), and Eaglesham doesn't? Does Dale just not like drawing them or what? Confusion abounds, as KC Superman says the same looking guy plagued his Earth as "Magog", but this dude is the guy intro'd into the regular Superman comics much later. To pretty much no acclaim and nobody even really noticing. Kinda like "The Kingdom", the OTHER attempt at draining some more life out of the KC concept. Good thing DC totally gave up on that concep... oh wait.

-The two Supermen meet up, with the KC one angsting over his Lois' death and warning Supes about this 'other' Gog. They get the call that he's fighting Hercules (as in the real one) in Gotham City. Herc loses the fight and Gog runs off, but Hercules gets all bitchy with Supes for no reason and starts throwing punches, because I guess we needed a fight scene or something. And this one chooses to show us the power level differences between the Supermen of two worlds, as Regular Kal-El goes flying into a building with one shot, but KC Superman eats it WITHOUT MOVING, catches his next punch, and absolutely wipes him out with one punch. See, now I'm not quite sure the point of establishing that OH MY GOD OUR SUPERMAN IS SO MUCH COOLER THAN THE JLA'S SUPERMAN, but I guess they wanted to do that.

-AND we get a SWERVE, as Gog is worshipping a giant purple head in the ground, and I go "WTF?"

-HOLY CRAP, IT'S SANDMAN!! Ol' Sandy is still having bad dreams, something that the JSA writers kinda ignored in the prior run. Power Girl gets him to check out some ash left at the scene of Gog's battle with Hercules, while we see Gog give a little speech about his origins (he's supposedly the "Herald" of a God beneath the Earth), while he fights a second-rate character named "Infinity Man". Apparently a New Gods guy, but I hate that shit so I have no idea who he is. I-Man teleports away, and Sandy knows where he is.

-BIG group-shot of the JSA at their Meeting Table, as you finally get a full-on shot of the gigantic team. They kinda link up the whole Kingdom Come/Magog thing to the JSA by bringing up "Legacies", and giving KC's Magog a backstory as the successor of Gog I here, but I still don't entirely buy it. Starman tells my precious Cyclone (who's proving to be quite thoughtful- actually giving Starman the time of day) that they'll all die for suresies if a "Magog" is born on Earth. Poor Lightning bonks a T-Sphere and shuts down all the electricity in the building, leading to one of her two emotions (at least, all she's ever shown): "Embarassment" This goes along with "Annoyance" from before.

-This allows Gog himself to show up in the JSA's homebase via teleportation, with Sandman stuck to his giant Power Staff. Jakeem is first on the attack, but he gets KOed two seconds in. Poor Cyclone tries next, and SHE gets a full-on whack to the skull! YOU SON OF A BITCH!! I hate Gog forever now, putting Cyclone out of this story.

-Now it's a full-on brawl, as apparently the JSA's entire team tactics in the era of Power Girl have been reduced to "All charge the enemy at once and dogpile them". I guess it's all you can do with seventy-five guys, but c'mon, Sandy & Terrific used to have all kinds of bizarre plans going on. Dumb ol' Hawkman takes a God-killing blast to the chest and somehow survives, and Amazing Man proves to be as resourceful as Carl Creel by simply absorbing the awesome power of the Staff of Gog, though apparently he can't shoot energy blasts. Gog still kicks some ass, pausing at the end of an issue to face Green Lantern (in full KC regalia, because they're just hitting ALL CYLINDARS of that now) and Obsidian, who is now FINALLY GOING TO DO SOMETHING!!

-Obsidian actually goes INSIDE of Gog (and knowing his sexual proclivities, Todd Rice actually fits most jokes about that), but Gog shoots himself IN THE FACE to get him out. Stargirl, who's NEVER been really good in a scrape, proves her worth by putting all of Lightning's aggression towards Gog, and she fries him for a bit. Liberty Belle does a bunch of super-punches amidst a Wildcat-pile, but again Gog is just an unstoppable monster, putting everyone through many foreign objects. Citizen Steel is actually IMMUNE to all of this for some reason.... I mean, I know he's tough, but he's JUST made of STEEL. Not even Titanium or Diamond or any of that stuff- unless Organic Steel is just a fancy name for super-hard ultra-comic-metals. Sucky ol' Judomaster does some stuff (not sure why Gog would even REACT to human-level punches), but Gog apparently figures out her weakness in two seconds because he blows off an Area Attack.

-Back at HQ, Cyclone has a concussion, but finds a monkey in the spot where Gog & Sandman came from. Gog teleports back out and takes half the team to Africa with him. The giant purple head behind him calls him a blasphemer and basically EATS HIM in a vortex, and that's it for that fight. Well, at least Eaglesham proved he could do a massive superhuman slugfest pretty well, even though it took half an issue. And now the head gets a body, and walks out of the Earth, turning into a big creepy smiling guy called GOG. Like the other guy. This is confusing.

-It's a DAMAGE-voiced couple panels! Grant whines about how much life sucks by making fun of his dad The Atom (yes, ANOTHER JSAer turns out to have had a long-lost child), and his adopted dad beating him up. Mr. Terrific attempts to communicate with the creepy smiling dude in the sky, but "he doesn't believe in Gods" is a valid enough reason for Gog to not even comprehend his presence, because... I dunno. But Amazing Man sure can. Gog walks into a poor-ass African village, and decides to save everybody by making food grow and curing the sick, as we get the grasp of a fully messianic being coming to Earth and doing godly things.

-Minor story thingie! BLACK ADAM IS BACK, BITCHES!! And Eaglesham draws the best Adam EVER, all menacing and huge and shit. Jerry Ordway, take notice- he ain't some skinny pervert with goofy hair. And ISIS might be back, too!

-Gog explains his origin: He's from the Third World (ie. the one that birthed the New Gods when it died), was cast out when he refused to choose a side in their Ragnarok (interesting note: Kirby kinda meant the Third World to represent his Marvel Norse Mythological Set-Up), and has been stuck on Earth all this time. The William Matthews Gog found him and a staff his first worshippers made, but went crazy from visions, and that's why that terrible character hated Superman. And Gog one-shot killed Matthews because he was going to die of a disease anyways, and was evil and stuff.

-LOOONNG expository issue ends with Damage freaking out AGAIN, but this time, Gog gives him the Love Finger, and lo and behold, he's beautiful!! Huge jawline, long hair, pretty eyes- he's nearly a match for my beloved Atom Smasher!

-Next issue starts at the JSA HQ, with Maxine now taking care of the African Monkey (nobody thought to RETURN IT, I guess), which is now wearing a shirt with wings on it, like the Ozian monkeys of lore (it's handwaved as being non-cruel, because Maxine tried to remove it, but "Frankie" loves it). And OH MY FREAKING GOD, LOOK AT HOW CYCLONE IS STANDING!!!

-My God, she's got her feet crossed in an adorable, shy way, WHILE STANDING UP!! How is that even POSSIBLE?? But it's SO CUTE! I cut out the panel where she says "You look nice, Grant" and pretend she's saying it to ME (we share a first name, Damage and I)! Such is my love! (okay no I didn't) I find Dale's own quote about her very nice:
"And then there’s Maxine Hunkel, A.K.A. Cyclone, an odd and poignant character. She is a kind person and a unique individual in every sense of the word. That people disliked her costume somehow made me like it even more. I added the witchy-poo hat in defiance of readers rejecting the crazy witchy suit she had and when I saw it on her, I knew that I would never want her costume to change. The costume is childish, representing a hanging-on to lost innocence. It hides a very complex character that grieves from past traumas and that makes it so much more than just a goofy costume. We only skimmed the surface of her personality and that is a shame."
-Dale Eaglesham
-Back in Africa, the JSA contingent is joined by the JLA for some explanations and exposition. It Portsmouth, Terrific & Mid-Nite FINALLY have another heart-to-heart after a giant gap, and again it's about religion. Terrific thankfully hasn't rescinded his Atheistic status since last time he promised to give it a shot, but now he's complaining because he CAN'T "master faith", like it's his hugest weakness ever.

-Gog does more stuff. He tells Stargirl she isn't useless, gives Sand a dreamless sleep for once, cures Mid-Nite's eyesight, cures Starman's mind, skips over poor Nate/Steel, and then teleports Power Girl away! Well that's a lot of stuff to happen at once.

-OMG, it's Earth-2! The JSA's original Earth! With Huntress I, back when she was important because she was Batman & Catwoman's daughter! Except she WASN'T important, because she didn't even last two seconds in Infinity, Inc or the JSA's own book! And hey, it's Jerry Ordway doing the art, and he DOESN'T suck this time around! See, he was pretty generic and not too great on the old "Infinity Inc" books, but completely fell apart as an artist in the past couple years, but here he's actually okay. Hah, it's old Jade & Dr. Midnight (the chick version who failed miserably). Then it's adult Robin/Dick Grayson! This is so weird, and kinda shows you just why Earth-2 had to die the first time around. I mean, I like Silver Age goofiness as much as the next guy, but you can't KEEP TELLING STORIES about adult Dick still wearing his Robin gear.

-Anyways, the whole deal is that Power Girl's been sent there, and her best pal Huntress is dealing with it, with the Justice Society Infinity, a collection of the old JSAers & Infinity kids into a big team. Actually, it's just the Infinitors plus Robin & The Atom I. Hey, there's failed successor Wildcat, the latina chick! And Hector "Dr. Fate IV" Hall in his terrible Silver Scarab duds! And my beloved Atom Smasher, back when he was a mohawk-wearing dorky 80s reject (seriously, he was the most punk-looking superhero ever, yet he was entirely characterized as this wishy-washy shy dork). This is much funnier having read 20 Infinity books at realizing how utterly mediocre that whole team was. Not that the fact that 80% of them didn't live to see the year 2009 wouldn't imply that anyways.

-So PG and Huntress team up to bring down The Joker, who in his ancient state has burned Helena's fiancee's face to create another "Two-Face". PG saves her from one last Joker hand-buzzer gag, and the old man dies. AND it turns out there's an extra-sad story on top of things, because Helena was going to TURN DOWN Harry Sims when he popped the question, but can't now out of guilt. Because (as PG guesses), she's been in love with ROBIN her entire life! As in, the guy who probably helped raise her since she was an infant, because THAT isn't creepy or anything.

-And then Power Girl shows up. As in, the real PG from THIS Earth, because it's that kind of story. So the whole 'everybody gets together all happy' thing proves not to be accurate after all. Our PG runs off, and Earth-2 Power Girl gets her entire JSI together (now with Johnny Thunder, Hawkman & Hawkgirl) to go on the hunt.

-Meanwhile, our JSA goes against some random soldiers out in the Congo. Why don't they ever do this kind of crap on their own? They gotta have demi-gods teleporting them out here to give a crap? No wonder Atom Smasher left to go do it.

-Damage hits on Judomaster still. He has the cutest superhero EVER crushing on him, and all he can think about is Yellow Fever? You suck, Damage. "I'm HOT now, aren't I?" GOD WHAT A TOOL! Most. Unlikeable. Hero. Ever.

-Nate angsts over his lack of ability to feel things, and wants Gog to help him, but the big guy just keeps marching. Now Gog is turning enemy soldiers into TREES, which Hawkman is totally approving of, while the rest of the team freaks out over basically killing them. See, because Hawkman is OLD-SCHOOL and understands the need for lethal force. Except that the entirety of "Black Reign" (you know, the story five or six trades ago) was ENTIRELY ABOUT THAT, and Hawkman was on the OPPOSITE SIDE! Really, Johns wrote BOTH of these stories, so I wonder why he conveniently ignores that. Just to have a JSA veteran lead the "Pro-Gog" team?

-And then Lance Corporal David Reid becomes the only superhero in the history of the world to die to a single soldier with a bazooka, as it hits his lame Hand-Gun thingie (which is discovered by Hawkman to be a piece of Gog earlier) and blows up. I still had no idea they were gonna make him Magog, really. I just don't read into things that much, unless it involves Shipping my favourite heroes :). Mid-Nite can't save him because he can't see inside his body anymore (our second inkling that Gog's "gifts" aren't that great after all), and he dies. But in comes Gog, who rebuilds him with a wave of his hand, into Magog, complete with his Kingdom Come Cable-esque armour.

-And we end with "Professor Michael Holt" on Earth-2 (!?!) being confronted by Earth-1's Power Girl. She needs his help.

Roster Changes: Lance Corporal David Reid dies, being reborn as Magog. Maxine gets a monkey named "Frankie".

Review: Well, at least they didn't add any more members. This whole thing just felt 'off', though. After one giant fight against one Gog, they discover another ORIGINAL Gog, who rewrites the unlikeable first one out, and then they follow him for ISSUE AFTER ISSUE while he does stuff and grants gifts like a God, while the massive 24-man line-up converses about things. And yes, the gigantic roster brings with it a horde of complications now, as there simply isn't ANY time to dwell on any particular subject.

Grant Emerson becomes a giant douche thanks to his pretty face, shown only by a couple panels where he brags about it. Mid-Nite can now see, but we don't get ANY of his "Oh my god, this is amazing" characterization because he's too busy being one of twenty guys in Africa. Obsidian FINALLY shows up to do some stuff, but after the Gog fight he just shrinks back and does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Sandman gets some characterization with his creepy nightmares FINALLY, and then boom, he disappears as soon as he finds Gog, allowing the rest of the monster roster to do things. Stargirl, the shining symbol of the current JSA, does nothing but comment about stuff. Starman becomes sane, and does nothing. Jakeem crushes on Lightning, but you only see it TWICE because there's just TOO MUCH GOING ON. She & the Wildcats COMPLETELY vanish once the Gog thing gets going in Africa.

There are just TOO MANY PEOPLE HERE, and it detracts from EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER. Hell, Dale Eaglesham complained about this a bit in his exit interview from DC, where he said it was sad that Cyclone, his favourite of all the new characters, just got the surface barely scratched of her personality, because BOOM, we had to shoot over to Damage hitting on Judomaster, and Jakeem doing something, and Sandman doing stuff, and Amazing-Man commenting on something else. I can see WHY they built up the roster (the JSA is now the teachers of the next generation, while the JLA can be the flagship), but it has way too many bad aspects to it.

And then there's the whole "Gog" storyline. It's a good BASE CONCEPT, because it's all about faith, and the new order, and maybe allowing this guy to do things being the right move or not. Moral questions like that are great in super-hero comics. But... it's just so DECOMPRESSED. A full trade of basically a guy walking around saying cryptic things, while the rest of the JSA runs around him. Things are awkward, especially because too many guys are running around getting their two cents in. And frickin' Hawkman acts ENTIRELY out of character, saying Gog's great for doing shit that he led the ENTIRE TEAM on a dangerous mission inside Kahndaq to prevent earlier. Just... kind of disappointing across the board, especially when Kingdom Come Superman is here for a whole trade but does NOTHING OF NOTE, again because of roster issues.

Best Moment: Maxine crushing on Damage, making adorable gawky faces and standing with her feet pointing towards each other, because she's gorgeously cute. I must've read those panels a billion times.

Best Non-Cyclone Moment: The massive free-for-all against Gog when he showed up at their homebase. This book has been VERY much missing on fight scenes, so that was appreciated.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Metamorpho! Etrigan! Animal Man! Elongated Man!)

Post by Jack of Spades »

I have a theory that the Elongated Man is the litmus test for whether your version of the DC Universe will succeed. If you can gracefully accomodate Ralph Dibney, the World Famous Elongated Man, your version will thrive. While the Arrowverse seems to be on its last legs now, it did well while Ralph was in play. JLU didn't shun the Elongated Man. But the Snyderverse could never handle the Stretchable Sleuth, and that's why I think it continues to struggle.

I’m not saying the Dibneys need to be major figures. But if they’re just inconceivable, your version of the DCU is going to vanish up its own backside.
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