Jab’s Builds! (Whomp 'Em! Plumbers Don't Wear Ties! ToeJam & Earl!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24791
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Battlescar

Post by Jabroniville »

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LOL the bisecting scar.

BATTLESCAR (Real Name Unknown)
Created By:
Steven Grant & Sal Buscema
First Appearance: The Spectacular Spider-Man #209 (Feb. 1994)
Role: Filler Jobber Villain, Claw Guy
Group Affiliations: The 1400 Club
PL 7 (70)
STRENGTH
5 STAMINA 5 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+4)
Expertise (Mercenary) 4 (+4)
Intimidation 4 (+5)
Investigation 2 (+3)
Perception 2 (+3)
Technology 2 (+2)
Vehicles 2 (+5)

Advantages:
Ranged Attack 3

Powers:
"Claws" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Split) [3]

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Claws +6 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +5, Fortitude +5, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)- The Death Squad are paid assassins.
Weakness (Self-Destruct Mechanism)- The Death Squad's suits are equipped with a self-destruct mechanism- anyone with knowledge of their gear, like The Foreigner, can take advantage of this if they are stunned.

Total: Abilities: 46 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 3 / Powers: 3 / Defenses: 9 (70)

-Battlescar, wasting not only a perfectly-awful "Extreme '90s Name" and a silly clawed design that could have made him a famous loser (I mean, look at that giant scar going down his entire body- WHAT A BAD-ASS, RIGHT?), was yet another 1400 Club goon, allied with Dead Aim & Warzone. He managed to slash the Foreigner's arm with his claws, but was kicked in the face and uppercutted in the ribs. He had to avoid Dead Aim's blind shots, and was then KO'd by the falling satellite that beat the three.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24791
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Iron Man Builds

Post by Jabroniville »

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IRON MAN BUILDS:

-Tony Stark allegedly came about because Stan Lee wanted to challenge the Silver Age hippie reading audience with a super-hero as little like them as possible. The definition of cold-hearted, money-grubbing capitalism, the wealthy Weapon-Maker Tony Stark was everything the liberals hated, and Stan says he felt it was a challenge to make him work. Adding the schtick that he was badly injured and possibly dying gave him that right notch of '60s Hero Pathos (part of why Marvel eventually overtook DC in the '60s was a mastery of this trope), which made him a star. However, Iron Man was always a career-long also-ran in the big leagues of Marvel- he's always had a solo book and treated as a foundational, major Avenger (to the point where his home was the Avengers base, and his butler was theirs too, but he was a distant star compared to Spidey, Hulk, Cap, Wolvie, etc.. But then that movie came out- hitting on nearly every big political issue of the Iron Man comics, the movie served as a microcosm for what made the character great, and basically made him a full-blown major star in comics.

It also made Tony a wise-cracking, snarky playboy who bedded every woman he met, spent money lavishly, and adored stardom- a STARK (hee hee) contrast to the grim, brooding, solitary figure I've seen in pretty much every Iron Man comic before 2004. I mean, this was a COMPLETELY different character from the original comic book version (and a good bit similar to the Ultimate version, in fact), and yet fans didn't mind, thanks to the raw charisma and humor of Robert Downey, Jr.'s performance. At least it got his Weapons-Maker-guilt accurate to the books. But hey, Movie Tony was frankly more ENTERTAINING than Comic Tony ever was, so Hollywood did that one right, and it's paid dividends.

In essence, the symbolic nature of Tony Stark as a character was altered at this time- prior to this, he was basically a symbol of Good Capitalism, the heroic figure who cared for his employees and fought off Evil '80s Capitalists and stuff like that (he was often contrasted to both Evil Communists like the Crimson Dynamo's bosses, and greedy bastards like Justin Hammer & Obadiah Stane). He was also a dark version of the Rich Boy, in that he owned all of this great stuff and was lauded publicly by everyone, but couldn't enjoy it because his chest injury effectively gave him a death sentence, forcing him to keep everyone at arm's length. The movie basically shifted Tony into the Ideal Male- the man every dude dreams of becoming: handsome, rich, charming, funny as hell, and a dominating figure who at the same time has a rebellious streak a mile wide. Naturally, women appreciated this version more as well. Reading any of Tony Stark's appearances before the movie came out is REALLY bizarre to me because of how different the character really is.

Tony's the ultimate "Powersuit Guy" in comics, setting off countless revisions, rip-offs, and "homages" ever since, which earns him total credit in the comic book world, where you're judged by the amount of guys who steal your ideas (very few can top him- Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, The Flash... can't think of many others). Unfortunately, he's been hampered by a respectable, but dull, supporting cast, of Generic Secretary Who Loves Him (Pepper. Thor had the same deal at the same time, along with countless other heroes), Loyal Dumbass Guy (Happy), and Black Guy Who Replaced Him Once (Rhodes). Give him a Spidey-like supporting cast, and you'd have a much bigger star with more successful books.

Of course, Civil War AND the movie coming out made him a huge star in Marvel, while also derailing him a bit. Here's a once-heroic figure hiring NORMAN OSBORN AND VENOM to hunt down SUPER-HEROES. Guys who friggin' ATE people, and Tony wanted them to arrest people just for not wanting to give the evil government their entire identity. They kinda brought him back to normal a couple years later (when the movies were making him a huge superstar character), but writers still play with the old "Tony does something awful" thing. Though to be fair, this IS a recurring sentiment in older comics- The Korvac Saga features Tony pissing off Captain America so much over financial issues that Cap PUNCHES HIM IN THE FACE, and Tony also enraged multiple Avengers by demanding the immediate execution of The Supreme Intelligence of the Kree Empire during Galactic Storm, and for running roughshod over ever Armor-Based Character in comics, including the Guardsmen (who were under Cap's specific protection at the time).

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Tony in the 1960s:
-Sixties Tony was very, VERY grim- most of the books I have feature him all glowering to himself and being a miserable bastard over his fate. The fact that he felt he was dying made him keep everyone at an arm's length. He founded the Avengers, actually putting them up in his home as "Avengers Mansion" and having his butler Jarvis act as their butler as well- this always gave Tony a "Founding Avenger" rank, as he was the solo hero most invested in the team until Captain America came to represent the squad as its iconic leader. And even thereafter, Tony had an "elder statesman" aspect to it.

As probably the Marvel character most-emblematic of the modern America- a high-tech super-capitalist, he was set against many Evil Foreigners, typically Communists- The Radioactive Man, The Black Widow, The Crimson Dynamo, The Titanium Man, and The Mandarin (a Chinese guy, but drawn more from the inscrutable, power-hungry Yellow Peril archetype than that of Evil Commie). His secretary was in love with him, and dumb lug Happy Hogan in love with her- classic "Stan Lee" stuff. His initial bulky suit of armor was soon shifted into a Steve Ditko-type suit- streamlined and now with the iconic yellow & red color scheme. His book didn't always feel like the hugest deal, but led to a lot of stuff- side characters the Black Widow & Hawkeye even became major characters in their own right!

Tony in the 1970s:
-I've read perilously-little (if any) of his '70s stuff, but with Jim Starlin on board, Tony all of a sudden shifted to Space Opera, as Starlin LOVED SPACE GODDAMMIT, and therefore Tony was sure as hell going to be dealing with The Eternals, Thanos, Adam Warlock and The Blood Brothers. So Evil Commies went bye-bye, and in came the Cosmic Blaster Dudes- Starlin had probably always wanted to do this kind of thing, and since he was working on Iron Man, that was where it was gonna happen. Eventually, none of these characters would ever interact with Tony in a meaningful manner again, making it look funny when you do research on Thanos and you're like "He debuted in Iron Man? Really?". Opposition in public to the Vietnam War made the writers give Tony misgivings about his ties to the arms industry, even while he would occasionally use unethical tactics in an "ends justify the means" sort of way.

However, this also lead to the famous Demon in a Bottle storyline, with David Michelinie & Bob Layton now writing the "Iconic" Iron Man, and the character underwent many of the shifts that inform him to this day. Introducing alcoholism into an actual, active SUPER HERO was a crazy-bold move that paid dividends, giving Tony an extra level of tragedy to his life. This took place in 1979, leading to their extremely long run in the 1980s- the pair worked together until 1982, then restarted in 1987, becoming permanently linked to the character.

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Tony in the 1980s:
-Since in the 1980s, Wall Street-style Big Business Corporate Sharks were all the rage as bad guys, it was inevitable that Tony would face a stream of them- Obadiah Stane among them. Tony would also find himself in the Armor Wars (a great story that involved him fighting all of his Copycats and de-powering them, upon discovering that his armor had been copied and used by criminals), and deal further with his drinking problem, which involved things like losing his friendship with the Avengers, and even losing JARVIS! This led to some great storytelling, a RELAPSE to show that it wasn't so easy (Stane had destroyed Tony's life and business, leaving him relapsing), homelessness, and finally redemption. CLASSIC 1980s comic book stuff. During this time, writer Denny O'Neil (who wrote the book during Michilinie's 5-year gap between runs) had Tony be replaced as Iron Man by James Rhodes, who'd maintain the role for a couple of years until Tony inevitably came back, Rhodes getting hurt and staying on as a helper again. Tony's armor is beaten by Stane's agents and "Iron Monger" gear, but he builds the Silver Centurion armor- far superior- and easily wins. Tony wears this silver armor for a few years, temporarily giving him a new color scheme that's fondly remembered to this day, but he'd eventually go back to the iconic one.

Michelinie/Layton would return, and Armor Wars story may be the most iconic Iron Man tale even to this day, and constantly gets talked about- it's really the best aspects of the character: his obsessive drive, his merciless nature, and his willingness to go to levels other heroes don't on full display- yeah, he wipes out a bunch of doofy villains like MAULER, The Raiders, Stilt-Man and The Beetle... but he assaults the superhero Stingray because Tony thinks he MIGHT be using his own gear! And later attacks the Guardsmen, who are guarded by his close friend Captain America (who has just been given a shield made for him by Tony, as the U.S. government has just dumped him for a new guy and took the original back), and is forced to knock CAP out as well! So ultimately Tony loses many of his friends AND his public reputation all in an attempt at clearing his own name in his head, because he feels guilty by association that criminals are using his own inventions. It's perfect stuff- you can see why Tony would feel that way, but also look at the cost of his obsession and that he was singled-minded and morally self-righteous about everything. Also it features some awesome fight scenes, like Tony having to use the weaker "Stealth Armor" against the high-level threats of the Crimson Dynamo & Titanium Man simultaneously.

Other stuff: Tony's big-time relationship was with his bad-ass female bodyguard, Bethany Cabe. Tony joins the West Coast Avengers as a charter member, splitting up "The Big Three" of the Avengers for at least ten years as Iron Man shores up the WCA as a veteran.

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Tony in the 1990s:
-OH GOD NO- Tony had luck like Peter Parker in the '90s, replacing The Clone Saga with The Crossing. Bethany Cabe leaves Tony's life, Tony falls into a coma when his ex Kathy Dare shoots him and he temporarily "dies", being put in cryogenic suspension so they can fix him later, and James Rhodes is so pissed off over this he quits Tony's company. Rhodes becomes "War Machine" full-time, getting a spinoff book that doesn't work out.

But the signature story was The Crossing, an awful Retcon that said Tony had been working for KANG for several years, and was actually a bad guy! Then he died and was replaced by a Teen Tony Stark who was "uncorrupted". This awful, putrid storyline was so bad that it essentially ruined the character, and the whole thing was basically thrown out and ignored almost completely (Kurt Busiek would helpfully explain it away in the way that only he can- it was Space Phantoms or a fake Tony or whatever!)- Onslaught killed Teen Tony and the character was pretty well never referenced again, and the story was wiped away as if it had never happened. Heroes Reborn, featuring renewed origins for famous characters, actually drew a lot of interest for a unique take on the "Iron Man" story (the Liefeld stuff was awful, and Lee's FF was ignorable, but Iron Man I recall getting some attention... and actually kind of anticipated the Iron Man movie's success along those same lines), and he was successfully-rebooted Post-Heroes Return with some fancy new armor, and a revamped Avengers roster.

Kurt Busiek wrote the Iron Man title for a good while, here- it's fine enough stuff, but not nearly as hyped as his Avengers work. It's more of a "Back to Basics" approach to get the stink of The Crossing off of the character. Stark's business is now "Stark-Fujikawa" (it'd been sold while he was dead) and he forms a relationship with the new boss's daughter Rumiko.

Tony in the 2000s:
-Tony's stock has actually risen over the years, as the also-ran of the olden days is now one of Marvel's top names thanks to the success of the Iron Man film series (which really started off a revolution of Marvel movies). Back in the '90s, he was usually a minor character in the Big Events (watch as he dies without a word in The Infinity Gauntlet and is an also-ran in every other "Cosmic Tale", despite Jim Starlin having used his book to springboard off his Thanos/Warlock stories)- now, he's a central figure.

Though there was a REALLY good arc in the early 2000s centered around his armor becoming sentient- it gained a personality, and even took control during battles, being more ruthless and pragmatic than Stark was- Tony watched in horror as his suit murdered the villain Whiplash during a fight. Attempting to teach the suit morality, he brought it to Whiplash's funeral, where the criminal's bawling son reacted badly, but it didn't work ("get me out of here, before I kill them ALL"). Ultimately, Tony fights the suit one-on-one on a secluded island- Tony is about to lose, but suffers what would be a fatal heart attack. The suit, realizing Tony was doomed, gave itself a mortal injury tearing out pieces of its innards, attaching them to Tony's heart to keep him alive. One act of heroism immediately before it died.

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Tony Post-Civil War:
-Funnily enough, Civil War was a boon and a hindrance to the character. See, the basic plot of Civil War- that reckless superhero fights caused death and destruction, causing government overreach- was a good one. This could happen (even though it was proven later that the villains were being boosted and the heroes had little chance), and that it happened near a school, causing hundreds of CHILDREN to die, was an epic-level tragedy that felt legitimately harrowing and would create public change.

This story gave Iron Man the push he'd always needed- Tony Stark became the central face of the "Pro-Registration" side, demanding that superhumans register with the government and act as their own agents. Hell, in real life, this would probably be a real thing. Stark allies like War Machine sided with him, as did intellectuals like Reed Richards & Hank Pym, as well as more military-themed people like Carol Danvers. He was opposed by the more "Street Level" heroes, led by Captain America, who didn't want this overreach in their lives, and feared for their loved ones. Spider-Man, then an Avenger, actually sided with Tony, who he admired a lot, before switching sides. This all SEEMED good- heroes divided along ideological points, and you could "see both sides" as it were.

BUT... Mark Millar was writing. And Mark Millar, most importantly, is a dumbass. Ignoring countless years of writing that have established that all world governments in Marvel are either A) evil or B) secretly run by HYDRA or various hidden shadowy cabals, Millar figured that OF COURSE the fans would side with Tony, and so ramped up the negative aspects of his side to make things seem more "even". So Tony would allow the creation of a "Clone Thor" that would kill Bill "Black Goliath" Foster in battle for an additional "Tragic Note". Or allow a lot of prison-dwelling VILLAINS to be released and chase down & arrest the "Anti-Registration" heroes. So the fans would be more likely to take CAP's side.

This of course failed because the fans ALREADY sided with Cap (mostly because HE'S CAPTAIN AMERICA!), and all that stuff just made it seem like Tony was taking a dark side AND doing evil actions to justify it. Cap turning himself in over the "Oh my God. We're not fighting for anything- we're just fighting" and then getting executed capped off everything with tragedy and made him seem MORE sympathetic, too. Millar soon bailed on the situation, leaving a Marvel Universe where every subsequent writer had a character yell at Tony Stark over his actions. And every other writer started showing the various negative repurcussions of this overreach- Norman Osborn empowered by the government; a forced recruitment program turning children into metahuman soldiers in The Initiative (there were good heroes involved with training, but even still we saw the innocent girl Cloud 9 turned into an army sniper); the Thunderbolts program creating an army of supervillains; etc. Ultimately, Tony himself was deposed and NORMAN OSBORN ran the registered side, which is where you saw the end result of where the whole thing would lead. And so Tony had to team up with a returned Cap and other heroes to stop Osborn, while dealing with the guilt of what he'd created.

The following decade+ has been spent both redeeming Tony and making him more of a douche at the same time- in 2008, the Iron Man movie was released, necessitating the comics using Iron Man as a less antagonistic figure, but he also adopted all of RDJ's mannerisms. So instead of being grim, morally self-righteous and obsessive, he was now more of a smirking, snarky guy who teased others, causing them to see Tony as a pest. And then of course Jon Hickman got a hold of him in his Avengers Infinity mega-arc and made him evil AGAIN, justifying the deaths of hundreds of alternate Earths to save his own, causing ANOTHER rivalry with Captain America that sees all of the Marvel Universe die and be reborn in what ultimately turns into a "Soft Reboot" (whose end result is pretty much just "Franklin Richards loses his powers and Mike Morales is in the 616 Universe like he was always there"). And Tony was reborn again with all THAT swept under the rug because he's just the "Smugly Likeable" guy again. So, uh.... he's successful? Kinda? Iron Man is still a huge name in comics, though I fear that since he's a side character in so many other books, they all just turn his smugness into other characters finding him annoying, which is a different thing entirely. That he's now DEAD in the movie continuity after 10+ years of Downey may hurt him in the future as well, but we'll see.

TONY'S ROGUES:
-As a kid, I was EXTREMELY unfamiliar with Tony's Rogues compared to many other Marvel characters- he seemed a bit "separate" from many of them, and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, most of his bad guys didn't have Marvel Cards featuring their visages. So I had an Armor Wars Famous Battles card, and The Mandarin got a bunch of cards, but that was it. As a hero, however, he's got, on the surface, a pretty One-Note Rogues Gallery- 90% of them are some variation of the Mirror Image Villain. And while that's a CLASSIC old trope, getting re-used constantly (Wolverine mostly fights Claw Guys, Punisher fights Gun Guys, Hulk fights Strong Guys), it gets a bit redundant after a point. Early on, this meant Tony fought a lot of Powersuit Guys- Titanium Man, The Crimson Dynamo, etc. A few are more-standard Gear Guys, who build one great invention and use it to commit crimes. But by the 1970s & '80s, suddenly the bad guys were Rival Corporations- you had Justin Hammer, Obadiah Stane, and others. There are frankly DOZENS of these guys if you look hard enough, and they're all pretty interchangeable, though Stane had the biggest effect (causing Tony to relapse into alcoholism and Rhodey to replace him) and Hammer lasted the longest (as a recurring "funder of other bad guys" with super-mooks of his own).

Curiously, Iron Man's BIGGEST villain matches none of these things- The Mandarin stands alone.

One thing I notice going over the guys and their histories, however, is that Tony Stark's Rogues each often speak to one aspect of his character or another. Not a lot of characters can say that- a lot of Spidey baddies are just "Guy in accident- gets powers- acts like a douche", while Wolverine's are often generic murdering Claw Guys. But each guy in the Iron Man list actually makes you think about the character differently, or appreciate him in a different way- The Crimson Dynamo is an idealistic threat to Stark- an American Icon/patriot, in that he's a symbol of the industry of America itself, and of Capitalism. Madame Masque is a romantic threat, given some entanglements with Stark himself. Obadiah & Ezekiel Stane, Justin Hammer, Justine & Sasha Hammer and others are all threats to his BUSINESS, making that a big part of his character- they're also Evil Reflections of his own nature as a capitalist business owner (you then get a contrast between his honest practices, and their criminality). The Detroit Steel line of armor is a commentary on Iron Man HIMSELF- ugly, automated, generic armored suits that ANYONE can wear. The Ghost is a threat to corporations and capitalism itself. Spymaster is a threat to Tony's IDEAS, not his body. Even Firebrand was an environmentalist- reflecting on whether or not TONY has done the right thing on that front.

So while his Rogues Gallery is full of Jobbers and Armor Guys, they often help TONY HIMSELF become more well-rounded. It reminds me of how Tom DeFalco talked about how every member of Spider-Man's Supporting Cast says something about Peter's personality.
Skavenger
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 5:56 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA

Re: Jab’s Builds! (NiCO! The Death Squad! Iron Man Builds!)

Post by Skavenger »

I'll be honest. I can't stand Iron Man right now, because every time I try to read him these days, he's just making things worse while thinking he knows better than everybody. It's like somebody watched Age of Ultron and thought "hey, they can get away with Tony Stark being responsible for awful things happening, why don't we just do that" so you wind up with him turning evil during AXIS, doing actual supervillain stuff to Daredevil and California and never paying for it, stealing godlike power from Korvac and making everybody in New York as smart as him (leading to multiple attempts to conquer the world because he made SELFISH people as smart as him) with no comeuppance, and each time he just shows up to the Avengers again and acts like he knows better than everyone, despite previously being willing to listen to people like Captain America, Wasp, or anybody else who was actually the leader.

He tops my list of Marvel characters who really should just retire from the limelight. The character has this arc of realizing that all the smarts in the world don't mean anything if they get used to hurt people instead of help people, and how you can't let technology control everything without a human heart behind it (metaphorical and literal in his case) but because Marvel can't let things go, they just keep returning him back to his status quo, blow up his company, try to take his wealth and business influence without actually doing EITHER because, well, he's still a brilliant inventor who can just bang out something new in five minutes to make a billion dollars, and the whole cycle begins again.

If I was an editor at Marvel, I'd take Tony and put him into a Bruce Wayne in Batman Beyond role. Let him focus on having his corporation actually do some good, and have him work behind the scenes as a mentor/inventor for someone in the new generation. I know they tried to briefly replace him with Ironheart (who I still think is a good character who just got promoted in the wrong way), but honestly, I'm surprised that any time he speaks up someone doesn't immediately go "Tony, when's the last time you had an idea that didn't screw everything up?"
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drkrash
Posts: 594
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:23 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (NiCO! The Death Squad! Iron Man Builds!)

Post by drkrash »

I'm looking forward to this. The past 8 years have been rough on Tony. He, like most male marquee heroes these days, plays second-string to a female supporting cast member, and the story that he is Howard's adopted son rather than biological son was a terrible idea in my opinion.
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Shock
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Location: Connecticut USA

Re: Jab’s Builds! (NiCO! The Death Squad! Iron Man Builds!)

Post by Shock »

Skavenger wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:17 pm I'll be honest. I can't stand Iron Man right now, because every time I try to read him these days, he's just making things worse while thinking he knows better than everybody. It's like somebody watched Age of Ultron and thought "hey, they can get away with Tony Stark being responsible for awful things happening, why don't we just do that" so you wind up with him turning evil during AXIS, doing actual supervillain stuff to Daredevil and California and never paying for it, stealing godlike power from Korvac and making everybody in New York as smart as him (leading to multiple attempts to conquer the world because he made SELFISH people as smart as him) with no comeuppance, and each time he just shows up to the Avengers again and acts like he knows better than everyone, despite previously being willing to listen to people like Captain America, Wasp, or anybody else who was actually the leader.

He tops my list of Marvel characters who really should just retire from the limelight. The character has this arc of realizing that all the smarts in the world don't mean anything if they get used to hurt people instead of help people, and how you can't let technology control everything without a human heart behind it (metaphorical and literal in his case) but because Marvel can't let things go, they just keep returning him back to his status quo, blow up his company, try to take his wealth and business influence without actually doing EITHER because, well, he's still a brilliant inventor who can just bang out something new in five minutes to make a billion dollars, and the whole cycle begins again.

If I was an editor at Marvel, I'd take Tony and put him into a Bruce Wayne in Batman Beyond role. Let him focus on having his corporation actually do some good, and have him work behind the scenes as a mentor/inventor for someone in the new generation. I know they tried to briefly replace him with Ironheart (who I still think is a good character who just got promoted in the wrong way), but honestly, I'm surprised that any time he speaks up someone doesn't immediately go "Tony, when's the last time you had an idea that didn't screw everything up?"
I agree with a lot of this. Tony either needs a break or needs a writer with new ideas. He's constantly doing things where he's trampling all over some person/group's rights simply because he "knows better". The past decade-plus has been constant arcs of 1 or more of the following:
1) Tony has some big idea where it is immediately obvious to everyone but him that it's going to blow up in his face
2) Tony loses/regains control of his company (over and over)
3) Tony starts a relationship with a favorite female of character of the current writer
4) Tony acts like an ass and somebody lectures him about it

I'd swear that on a D&D scale, his Wisdom would be below average. His decision making is just that bad. Marvel was getting away with it because of the success of the movies but with him gone from the MCU, they're going to have to do something else.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24791
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (NiCO! The Death Squad! Iron Man Builds!)

Post by Jabroniville »

The Builds:

Allies:
Iron Man & War Machine (re-posts- no new information, really)
Pepper Potts ('60s Girlfriend turned important character thanks to the movies)
Happy Hogan (Big Dopey Guy)
Guardsman (Tony's Jobber Friend)
Guardsmen (Heroic Mooks)
Rumiko Fujikawa ('90s Girlfriend, Representing the "Japan Takes Over The World" corporate fears of the era)
Betheny Cabe (Bodyguard Girlfriend)
Sunturion (Super-Powered Semi-Heroic Type)
Riri Williams (the modern emblem of all new Marvel characters, lol)

Enemies:
The Mandarin (Tony's Big Bad)
The Ghost (Anti-Corporate Crusader)
Aldritch Killian (Mostly known for the third movie)
Iron Monger ('80s Foe turned into a bigger deal by the first movie)
Count Nefaria (Evil Superman)
Madame Masque (Evil Superman's Criminal Mastermind Daughter)
Fin Fang Foom (Giant Monster, '50s Comic Book Icon)
The Living Laser (Jobber)
The Controller (Mind Controller)
The Blood Brothers (Forgotten Space Bad Guys)
Killer Shrike (Jobber)
The Raiders (Jobbers)
Spymaster (Elite Spy)
The Melter (Jobber)
Detroit Steel (New Jobber)
Coldblood (Jobber)
Shockwave (Jobber)
Firepower (Classic "Villain Beats Hero, Hero Upgrades, Hero Beats Villain" story)
Dreadknight (Jobber)
Whiplash (Recurring Jobber)
Blacklash (Jobber)
The Scarecrow (Not the DC Guy)
Justin Hammer (Evil Corporate Raider/Inventor)
Mr. Doll (Jobber)
MAULER (Jobber)
Firebrand I (Jobber)
Firebrand II (Jobber)
Firebrand III (Environmentalist Warrior)
The Unicorn (Forgotten '60s Villain)
Wong-Chu (Evil General)
Temugin (The Mandarin's Son)
Mandroids (Elite Mooks)
Stratosfire (One-Off)
Stockpile (Horrible Jobbers)
Death Squad II (Also Horrible Jobbers)
Jabroniville
Posts: 24791
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Iron Man

Post by Jabroniville »

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IRON MAN (Tony Stark)
Created By:
Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Larry Lieber & Don Heck
First Appearance: Tales of Suspense #39 (March 1963)
Role: Powersuit Guy (Trope Maker/Definer), Flying Brick/Blaster, Just-Below-Thor Guy
Group Affiliations: The Avengers (all teams), The Illuminati, S.H.I.E.L.D., Force Works
Avengers Grade: A-Level
PL 12 (254)
STRENGTH
2/12 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 8 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 5

Skills:
Aerobatics 6 (+8)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+8)
Deception 6 (+11, +13 Attractive)
Expertise (S.H.I.E.L.D. Director) 4 (+12)
Expertise (Business) 7 (+15)
Expertise (Science) 6 (+14)
Expertise (Science) 8 (+22) -- Flaws: Limited to Mechanical Sciences
Insight 4 (+7)
Intimidation 2 (+7)
Investigation 5 (+7)
Perception 4 (+7)
Persuasion 6 (+11, +13 Attractive)
Ranged Combat (Iron Man Weapons) 2 (+9, +12 Suit)
Stealth 2 (+4)
Technology 14 (+22)
Vehicles 3 (+8)

Advantages:
Attractive, Beginner's Luck, Benefit 5 (Wealth- Billionaire), Connected, Equipment (Gear in Suit- Radio, Jammer & stuff), Improvised Tools, Interpose, Inventor, Jack-of-All-Trades, Move-By Action, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 2, Set-Up, Skill Mastery 2 (Science, Technology), Teamwork, Ultimate Skill 2 (Science, Technology), Well-Informed

Powers:
"Iron Man Armor" (Flaws: Removable) (Feats: Restricted 2- Only Tony, Remote Control) [101]
Enhanced Strength 10 (20)
Protection 9 (Extras: Impervious 9) (18)
Immunity 6 (Cold, Heat, Radiation, Pressure, Suffocation 2) (6)
"Boot Rockets" Flight 9 (1,000 mph) (18)

"Targetting & Environmental Sensors"
Enhanced Advantages 10: Extraordinary Effort, Improved Aim, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Precise Attack 2 (Ranged/Cover & Concealment), Ranged Attack 3, Withstand Damage (10)
Enhanced Dodge & Parry 2 (4)
"Armor Sensors" Senses 11 (Extended & Infravision, Extended Hearing, Radar 4, Detect Energy- Ranged, Acute & Accurate) (11)

"Repulsor Rays" Blast 12 (Feats: Split, Improved Critical, Variable Energy Descriptor, Penetrating 4) (31) -- (36)
  • AE: "Repulsor Stun" Affliction 10 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned/Incapacitated) (Feats: Split) (Extras: Ranged, Cumulative) (31)
  • AE: "Uni-Beam" Damage 12 (Feats: Penetrating 5) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Line) (Flaws: Distracting) (17)
  • AE: "Electro-Magnetic Pulse" Nullify Technology 12 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst, Sustained) (Flaws: Touch Range) (24)
  • AE: "Sonic Attack" Dazzle Audio 10 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Touch Range) (20)
  • AE: "Holographics" Illusion (Visual) 5 (10)
-- (122 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Suit Unarmed +8 (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Repulsor Rays +12 (+12 Ranged Damage, DC 27)
Stun +12 (+10 Ranged Affliction, DC 20)
Uni-Beam +12 Area (+12 Damage, DC 27)
EM Pulse +12 (+8 Nullify, DC 18)
Initiative +6

Defenses:
"Out of Suit" Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +3, Fortitude +6, Will +9
"In Suit" Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +12 (+5 Impervious), Fortitude +6, Will +9

Complications:
Power Loss (Uni-Beam)- Tony must wait a few rounds between using the Uni-Beam, to recharge it's power. It also does comparatively less damage up close than it does at range.
Addiction (Alcohol)- Tony is a recovering alcoholic, and could be prone to a relapse.
Relationship (Pepper, Rhodey, Happy)- Tony has a large group of friends, most of whom he's let down or rejected violently at some point.
Weakness (Health)- Tony's health varies based off of the current writer- the second someone wants to "get back to basics" (which is A LOT in comics, for every hero ever), he gets a new health imperfection. A bad heart (Extra Effort leaves him worse off than normal), screwy mechanics that keep him alive (too strong a hit or magnetics does way more damage), etc.
Responsibility (Civil War)- Tony was the face of the Pro-Registration side, and now has to deal with the fallout from that. Many in the super-hero community will not trust him.
Enemy (The Mandarin, The Stane Family)

Total: Abilities: 70 / Skills: 76--38 / Advantages: 24 / Powers: 101 / Defenses: 21 (254)

Tony Stark- The Ultimate Powersuit Guy:
-And here we come to the Tony Stark build- not any different from last time, though you'll of course see random "upgrades" to each new suit that get shown off a few times, but never appear in other books, or once the new writer takes over.

-They've added a ton of junk to that armor over the years, recently bringing out a ridiculous Extremis armor, which I HATE, because it takes Tony's coolest aspect (an Armored Hero), and just makes him a standard Guy With Powers. That amoung of high-tech stuff is just TOO futuristic, in my opinion. It's a good thing they dumped it and went back to the classics. Tony's various armors have been hit-or-miss: the early two clunky suits- grey & gold, by Jack Kirby, were silly-looking, but Steve Ditko's redesign into a streamlined red & gold suit was boss. It got bigger and more muscular-looking over time (with an unfortunate nose added because someone misunderstood a comment by Stan Lee about him needing one- Stan MEANT that the faceplate was too flat to fit a human nose, but the artist decided to put a big triangular nose dead-centre), culminating with the awesome but super-'80s Silver Centurion suit. SOOOO bulky.

-The even MORE awesome Black redesign as War Machine was even better, so of course they kept that one around. Why is it that recolouring things black ALWAYS makes them look cooler? Cap, Spidey, Iron Man, Batman... they shoulda made a Black Hulk (well, sorta they almost did in one Defenders story... but it sucked). It shifted to another Red & Gold look, then an awful Yellow & Black one (those colours ONLY work if you're dressed like a giant bee and therefore have stripes), and he's recently even worn a white one that makes him look like a Human iPod.

The Importance of an Iron Man Build:
-Iron Man's build defines a lot of things for my builds in general, so I always like to stat him early-on (... of course, he was one of the last Marvel guys I ever posted at Ronin Army AND here at Echoes). He is THE defining "Armor Guy", and everyone else in comics (Steel, Crimson Dynamo, Titanium Man) takes this build and just drops stats in various places. Tony's also effective as a benchmark for PLs- I view him as a resolute PL 12. Alot of others put him higher, but to me, he's always represented that level that was above the obvious baseline characters (ie. PL 10s), and guys like Spider-Man and probably She-Hulk, but was never quite at Thor's stage of the game. Notably, Tony's entire Rogues Gallery aside from The Mandarin was either lower-powered versions of himself (Dynamo, T-Man), or just plain sucky (Whiplash? The Melter? THE UNICORN?). Of course, he's also had like a bazillion upgrades since he debuted in the '60s, yet mysteriously, every time he gets upgraded, he ends up at the same approximate level (he's been below Thor in power after ALL of them, despite often being upgraded greatly). And while powerful, he's about the only Class 100-ish guy I've ever seen who gets hit by Captain America & Spider-Man and goes "OUCH!". Guys like Thor & The Thing just shrug off those punches like nothing, but Tony is all "OW STOP HITTING MEEEE!" (Unarmored Tony once fought his sentient suit and HURT IT WITH A ROCK). I just don't buy him as THAT powerful. He's tough, but not a God.

-Despite reservations about the highness of his PL, Tony's still a great battler overall. PL 12 is pretty damn good (especially since I use PL 9 as a "starter", and PL 10s are better than "regular" heroes), and he's got a lot of tricks up his sleeve. His Armor converts him into a PL 10 melee, PL 12 ranged guy (it boosts his Ranged Attack, Dodge & Parry- he's never been great shakes in melee, but his armor warns him about incoming attacks, and lets him see more effectively, so his aim's better), with either Repulsor Rays (standard Penetrating Blast) or a Uni-Beam (Line Area force, but it's Distracting and needs a recharge). There's a few other side tricks in his array as well, like a Stunning option, and an EM Pulse that disables technology. Now, Tony's the type of guy to whip out a life-saving last-minute upgrade as a side thing (he's nowhere near as bad as Drs. Strange or Fate for it, though), so he usually spends his HP on sudden stunts like "Absorb the Energy into a Counter-Acting Blast" (he did this to Captain Marvel/Photon in one fight), Magnetic Control, Dazzles, or Visual Illusions or somesuch thing.

Tony's Smarts:
-And his Skills & Advantages. Tony is smart as hell (though a few notches behind Reed Richards, who seems to understand EVERY Science- Tony specializes), with +22 to Science & Technology, not to mention brilliant at Business (he's re-taken over his company at least twice, and builds companies from the ground up regularly), Deception & Persuasion. The man is a modern Renaissance Dude. It's no wonder he's a PL 12 (250) monstrosity to deal with- the way they set up the game now, there's almost no way to see Tony coming in as a PC without doing cheap things like Alt-Effecting the Strength off of the Weapons Array (which I generally dislike doing).
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (NiCO! The Death Squad! Iron Man Builds!)

Post by Ares »

I disagree that Tony needs a break, and STRONGLY disagree that Tony needs to be retired in any capacity. I view Tony as one of Marvel's essential heroes, and the day he retires completely should be the day Marvel stops printing comics. Same goes for Peter Parker, Steve Rogers, Thor, etc.

What he does need is for writers to stop with this weird notion they have of Tony being some kind of irresponsible screw up that causes more problems than he fixes. Because he really wasn't that way until Civil War, and then that just cast a huge shadow over him for the better part of a decade.

Honestly, I'm just going to say it: The Ultimates Universe was a mistake. All it did was put Bendis and Millar in a position to influence the main Marvel Universe and create the wrong things for the movies to take inspiration from.

Aside from the problems those two knuckleheads caused, the big issue with Tony is that a lot of writers . . . well, they lack the empathy to really write the character. Stan Lee created Tony to give the counter culture crowd a hero they should despise but could root for, because they could see the good he was trying to do, see the pain he went through, the problems he had, etc.

A lot of the current Marvel crowd don't have that kind of empathy for Tony. He's a rich straight white male, so they have to pair him up with someone like Patsy Walker who specifically calls him out on being a rich white guy and treating that like some kind of slam against him. They make him a self-destructive screw up so he can learn the same lesson over and over again, so he can be humbled, apologize, be proven wrong and promise "to do better".

It also partly feels like they're trying to ape the Armor Wars. Much in the same way EVERY Jean Grey story goes back to the Phoenix, EVERY Raven story has to back to the Trigon arc, it feels like folks look at the Armor Wars as THE big story Tony had, and feel like every story should be that.

It's like these dinguses don't realize that the reason stories like Trigon, Phoenix and Armor Wars worked was because a) there was a lot of set up and payoff leading up to those stories, with them being the culmination of years of set up and b) THEY WERE DIFFERENT.

Tony was someone who had his faults before Armor Wars, with iconic stories like Demon in a Bottle showcasing his fallibility. But in several stories those were human weaknesses exploited by outside forces to ruin Tony. Armor Wars was a unique situation where something Tony had made and designed was being used to hurt people. And for someone with the profound sense of responsibility Tony had, it was an intolerable situation. And to his credit, Tony made every effort to do things by the book, but it was unfortunately not a viable option because of the harm people using his tech could cause in the time it would take. We saw how far Tony was willing to go to not let his technology hurt people. He burned bridges, hurt his friends, had to work outside the law, and in the end had to fake Iron Man's death. His relationship with Captain America took years of real time to recover, though the two did eventually make peace and become friends again.

The point being that Armor Wars was something Tony tried very hard NOT to repeat. The one time that came close following Armor Wars was when he was paralyzed and dying, and when the time came, faked his death and left everything to Rhodey to ensure that his legacy was in safe hands. In reality he was getting a dangerous treatment done that could save him but also kill him for good, and he didn't want his friends holding out any false hope. Naturally he did recover, but unfortunately this bit of deception caused him and Rhodey to have a falling out for a while. But this wasn't a case of Tony screwing up or creating a problem, this was Tony trying to spare his friends some pain while betting his life on a Hail Mary play that paid off.

The point being that "Tony Stark creates more problems than he fixes" really only became a thing with Civil War. Because of Millar and Bendis. Even in the movies, the only problem Tony creates that he has to try to fix was Ultron, and that was mostly beyond his control. His biggest mistake there was doing something behind the backs of the others because he thought he was right.

So yeah, people need to stop writing Tony as some kind of screw up and get back to what he is at his core: a genuinely good man who learned humility and responsibility the hard way, who genuinely wants to make the world a better place and does care about people, but must often struggle with his human failings.

I don't see Pre-Movie Tony and Post-Movie Tony as being completely different, as there are definitely a lot of shared elements. Tony was always a bit of a womanizer, he always had a bit of a snarky sense of humor, he often had to remind himself to reign in his arrogance, he did have a temper, etc. I'd say the biggest change is, sadly, they took the 'snarky sense of humor' part and focused way too much on it, so much that it became his defining quality when it was really part of his personality. Tony did crack jokes, but he was more even tempered, being appropriately serious, focused and driven, while at other times making quick quips and the like.

The core of Tony is still there, but it's now buried under a level of snark so thick that it kind of makes Tony come off as infantile, like he's a spoiled rich kid, which Tony almost certainly was never portrayed as post getting a chest full of shrapnel.

What people need to remember about Tony is that he's a problem SOLVER, not a problem CREATOR. While he's definitely someone who enjoys the perks of being a billionaire playboy, he's also one of the smartest men on Earth, has genuine empathy for other people truly wants his legacy to be more than 'guy who banged a lot of chicks and built weapons'. His superheroing and funding the Avengers is just one part of his way of making the world a better place.

Interestingly, I see Tony as basically the good inversion of Lex Luthor. Lex Luthor is all of the bad sides of capitalism taken to an extreme, success at all costs, anything to increase the bottom line, destroying those more powerful or successful than you by any means, etc. Tony by contrast shows the potential of someone who has built himself up from nothing multiple times, showing the benefits of hard work, creativity, ingenuity, and how a good successful person will use his resources to lift others up and make things better for everyone.

Basically, Tony is a good person. And writers need to recognize that.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (NiCO! The Death Squad! Iron Man Builds!)

Post by Ares »

Power wise, Tony was never going to be a top tier Superman/Thor level guy. He's always occupied more of that "Thing" place in terms of power. He can certainly fight folks like Thor or Superman, but he's never going to WIN a straight up fight with them unless some extraordinary circumstances come into play.

Which is why Tony's big strength is that he's really more of a Batman who fights like a flying blaster brick. Tony should in general be the Avengers most versatile member, someone with a lot of answers for every situation, someone who can adapt to whatever the team has to face, and who wins by having enough power to hold his own against most threats, buying him just enough time to out think the problem he's facing.

Basically, Tony knows he's never going to beat guys like Superman, the Hulk or Thor by just trading punches with them, so he uses that time as a delaying action to figure out an actual way to win. For some reason, writers act like Tony loses his smarts outside of the lab, when said smarts were the key to his survival in fights with more powerful guys for decades.

There was a great example of this when Tony was fighting Nitro. Tony was being frustrated with the exploding supervillain, but spent the entire fight analyzing how Nitro's powers worked, until he saw that a split second before Nitro exploded, there was an energy pulse. Tony duplicated the frequency and beamed it directly at Nitro, causing him to explode. Nitro reformed, confused, and then Tony made himself blow up again. And again. And again. Noticing that Nitro was taking longer to reform each time and was looking more and more tired. Without time to rest between each explosion, said explosions were growing weaker as well. Until Nitro was so tired that Tony just walked up to him and punched him.

Tony Stark defeated someone by basically weaponizing the scientific method and beating them over the head with it.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (NiCO! The Death Squad! Iron Man Builds!)

Post by drkrash »

Ares wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:38 am A lot of the current Marvel crowd don't have that kind of empathy for Tony. He's a rich straight white male, so they have to pair him up with someone like Patsy Walker who specifically calls him out on being a rich white guy and treating that like some kind of slam against him. They make him a self-destructive screw up so he can learn the same lesson over and over again, so he can be humbled, apologize, be proven wrong and promise "to do better".
As usual, Ares, I agree with you on your essay as a whole. I'm going to be that guy again who points out how this is the problem with Marvel's writing across the board right now. *Because* he is a straight white male (and not young), he won't be shown as being right very often, or capable of solving a problem on his own, or really even star in his own book. Seriously: how many male heroes in Marvel a) have their own solo book and b) are actually allowed to be the strongest/most heroic part of the book? I honestly cannot think of a single one starring a white and/or older character (and only one starring a POC). But I can rattle off half a dozen female heroes with solo books where they are consistently shown ruling their stories.

Tony seems to be the poster boy for this kind of exclusion (and his solo book has sucked for years as a consequence).
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Iron Man Armors

Post by Jabroniville »

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"Iron Man Space Armor" (Flaws: Removable) (Feats: Restricted 2- Only Tony, Remote Control) [93]
Enhanced Strength 10 (20)
Protection 9 (Extras: Impervious 9) (18)
Immunity 7 (Cold, Heat, Radiation, Vacuum, Pressure, Suffocation 2) (7)
"Boot Rockets" Flight 7 (240 mph) (14)
Movement 1 (Space Travel) (2)

"Targetting & Environmental Sensors"
Enhanced Advantages 10: Extraordinary Effort, Improved Aim, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Precise Attack 2 (Ranged/Cover & Concealment), Ranged Attack 3, Withstand Damage (10)
"Armor Sensors" Senses 13 (Extended & Infravision, Extended Hearing, Radar 4, Detect Energy- Ranged, Acute & Accurate, Direction & Distance Sense) (13)

"Repulsor Rays" Blast 12 (Feats: Split, Improved Critical, Variable Energy Descriptor, Penetrating 4) (31) -- (34)
  • AE: "Repulsor Stun" Affliction 10 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned/Incapacitated) (Feats: Split) (Extras: Ranged, Cumulative) (31)
  • AE: "Uni-Beam" Damage 12 (Feats: Penetrating 5) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Distracting) (17)
  • AE: "Electro-Magnetic Pulse" Nullify Technology 12 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst, Sustained) (Flaws: Touch Range) (24)
Quirks: -2 Fighting (-4), -2 Dodge (-2)
-- (112 points)

-Tony's Space Armor is a little different- replacing a rank of Flight with Space Travel. It's slower in the atmosphere, but it can fly outside of it. It also drops the Absorption Blast for Immunity to Vacuums. It's depicted as clunkier and slower, which lowers Tony's accuracy a lot, and loses him the Dodge/Parry bonus. By "Operation: Galactic Storm", he used one that was pretty much like his regular armor with more Life Support, allowing him to keep going for weeks without replacing resources.

---

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"Iron Man Hydro Armor" (Flaws: Removable) (Feats: Restricted 2- Only Tony, Remote Control) [95]
Enhanced Strength 9 (18)
Protection 8 (Extras: Impervious 7) (15)
Immunity 6 (Cold, Heat, Radiation, Pressure, Suffocation 2) (6)
Movement 1 (Environmental Adaptation- Water) (2)
"Boot Rockets" Flight 7 (240 mph) (14) -- (15)
  • AE" Swimming 10 (500 mph) (10)
"Targetting & Environmental Sensors"
Enhanced Advantages 10: Extraordinary Effort, Improved Aim, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Precise Attack 2 (Ranged/Cover & Concealment), Ranged Attack 3, Withstand Damage (10)
Enhanced Dodge & Parry 2 (4)
"Armor Sensors" Senses 13 (Extended & Infravision, Extended Hearing, Radar 4, Detect Energy- Ranged, Acute & Accurate, Direction & Distance Sense) (13)

"Electric Eel Field" Aura 10 (Flaws: Distracting) (30) -- (32)
  • AE: "Ink Cloud" Concealment 2 (Visual 2) (Extras: Attack, Area- Cloud) (8)
  • AE: "Manta Ray Torpedos" Blast 10 (Feats: Homing 2) (22)
-- (115 points)

-The Hydro Armor is a little weaker across the board, but doesn't suffer when underwater.

---

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"Iron Man Stealth Armor" (Flaws: Removable) (Feats: Restricted 2- Only Tony, Remote Control) [92]
Enhanced Strength 9 (18)
Protection 8 (Extras: Impervious 7) (15)
Immunity 6 (Cold, Heat, Radiation, Pressure, Suffocation 2) (6)
"Boot Rockets" Flight 7 (240 mph) (14)

"Targetting & Environmental Sensors"
Enhanced Advantages 10: Extraordinary Effort, Improved Aim, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Precise Attack 2 (Ranged/Cover & Concealment), Ranged Attack 3, Withstand Damage (10)
Enhanced Dodge & Parry 2 (4)
"Armor Sensors" Senses 13 (Extended & Infravision, Extended Hearing, Radar 4, Detect Energy- Ranged, Acute & Accurate, Direction & Distance Sense) (13)

"Invisibility"
Concealment 5 (Hearing, Visual 4) (Flaws: Limited to Machines) (5)
Concealment 5 (Visual 4) (Flaws: Limited to Humans, Partial) (2)
Enhanced Skills 20: Stealth 10 (+14) (5)

"Repulsor Rays" Blast 12 (Feats: Split, Improved Critical, Variable Energy Descriptor, Penetrating 4) (Flaws: Limited to 3 Uses) (19)
-- (111 points)

-Stealth Armor is really hard to spot, and invisible to machines.

---

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"Hulkbuster Armor" (Flaws: Removable) (Feats: Restricted 2- Only Tony, Remote Control) [100]
"Large Size" Growth 5 (Str & Toughness +5, +5 Mass, +2 Intimidation, -2 Dodge/Parry, -2 Close Attacks, +1 Speed) -- (15 feet) (8)
Enhanced Strength 9 (total 16) (18)
Protection 8 (Total 15) (Extras: Impervious 15) (23)
Immunity 7 (Cold, Heat, Radiation, Vacuum, Pressure, Suffocation 2) (7)
"Boot Rockets" Flight 5 (60 mph) (10)

"Targetting & Environmental Sensors"
Enhanced Advantages 2: Extraordinary Effort, Withstand Damage (2)
"Armor Sensors" Senses 13 (Extended & Infravision, Extended Hearing, Radar 4, Detect Energy- Ranged, Acute & Accurate, Direction & Distance Sense) (13)

"Repulsor Rays" Blast 15 (Feats: Split, Improved Critical, Penetrating 7) (39) -- (40)
  • AE: "Uni-Beam" Damage 15 (Feats: Penetrating 7) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Distracting) (22)
-- (121 points)

-The HulkBuster is a high-powered super-machine, but so big & clunky that Tony only breaks it out for the big fights... like against The Hulk.

OTHER ERAS' ARMORS:
-Tony Stark wasn't ALWAYS a PL 12- in the 1960s, he was downright vulnerable and small-time.

Image

"Iron Man Armor- 1970s & '80s Version" (Flaws: Removable) (Feats: Restricted 2- Only Tony, Remote Control) [92]
Enhanced Strength 9 (18)
Protection 8 (Extras: Impervious 9) (17)
Immunity 6 (Cold, Heat, Radiation, Pressure, Suffocation 2) (6)
"Boot Rockets" Flight 9 (1,000 mph) (18)

"Targetting & Environmental Sensors"
Enhanced Advantages 10: Extraordinary Effort, Improved Aim, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Precise Attack 2 (Ranged/Cover & Concealment), Ranged Attack 3, Withstand Damage (10)
Enhanced Dodge & Parry 1 (2)
"Armor Sensors" Senses 11 (Extended & Infravision, Extended Hearing, Radar 4, Detect Energy- Ranged, Acute & Accurate) (11)

"Repulsor Rays" Blast 10 (Feats: Split, Improved Critical, Variable Energy Descriptor, Penetrating 4) (27) -- (32)
  • AE: "Repulsor Stun" Affliction 10 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned/Incapacitated) (Feats: Split) (Extras: Ranged, Cumulative) (31)
  • AE: "Uni-Beam" Damage 11 (Feats: Penetrating 5) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Line) (Flaws: Distracting) (16)
  • AE: "Electro-Magnetic Pulse" Nullify Technology 12 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst, Sustained) (Flaws: Touch Range) (24)
-- (111 points)

-Tony in the 1970s & '80s was still a very high-end hero, but "only" PL 11. He got one-shotted NUMEROUS times, and had a lot of trouble with some pretty low-grade foes. PL 11 is still enough to trounce goofs like The Raiders and M.A.U.L.E.R., anyways.

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"Iron Man Armor- 1960s Version" (Flaws: Removable) [72]
Enhanced Strength 8 (16)
Protection 7 (Extras: Impervious 9) (16)
Immunity 6 (Cold, Heat, Radiation, Pressure, Suffocation 2) (6)
"Boot Rockets" Flight 8 (500 mph) (16)

"Targetting & Environmental Sensors"
Enhanced Advantages 2: Improved Initiative, Ranged Attack 1 (2)
"Armor Sensors" Senses 11 (Extended & Infravision, Extended Hearing, Radar 4, Detect Energy- Ranged, Acute & Accurate) (11)

"Repulsor Rays" Blast 10 (Feats: Split, Improved Critical) (22) -- (23)
  • AE: "Uni-Beam" Damage 10 (Feats: Penetrating 5) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Line) (Flaws: Distracting) (15)
-- (90 points)

-Iron Man in the '60s was a mere PL 10 hero... but of course back then, EVERYONE was weaker. He loses a lot of "modern" upgrades like advanced Targeting Computers, or much in the way of Alternate Effects, but he does alright. His suit only offered him a +10 Toughness bonus, and was known to blink out on occasion- at one point, Namor slammed right into him, nearly breaking the part of the armor that protected Tony's chest-injury.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (NiCO! The Death Squad! Iron Man Builds!)

Post by Ares »

It's kind of funny how the Hulkbuster armor in Avengers 2 - Age of Ultron was the most successful 'Buster' suit in fiction. The original Hulkbuster armor (really just his modular armor with a ton of strength enhancer modules slapped on) actually held up evenly against the Professor Hulk, but that wasn't a true all out fight. The fights against World War Hulk and Odinforce Thor in his Hulk and Thor-buster armors didn't go nearly as well.

I love how Age of Ultron treated the Hulkbuster as a kind of mini-mecha Tony piloted while wearing his normal armor.

I'll also give the current Iron Man run this much: the retro armor looks AMAZING. I hope they stick with that look for a while.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (NiCO! The Death Squad! Iron Man Builds!)

Post by Jabroniville »

I found a website listing all the armors: http://www.ironmanarmory.com/Armors.html

Naturally, because it's a Marvel site, it's IMMENSELY detailed and has tons of granularity in all the capabilities. While I'm not gonna be THIS thorough (M&M stats lack that much specific stuff), it's good to see.
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The Melter (Horgan)

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE MELTER I (Bruno Horgan)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Sam Rosen
First Appearance: Tales of Suspense #27 (Nov. 1963)
Role: Joke Villain
Group Affiliations: The Masters of Evil, The Death Squad
PL 8 (99), PL 9 (99) to Metal
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Deception 5 (+5)
Experitse (Munitions) 8 (+12)
Intimidation 4 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Melters) 2 (+8)
Technology 5 (+9)

Advantages:
Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Melting Gun), Ranged 2

Powers:
"Melter Armor" (Flaws: Removable) [32]
"Melting Beam" Blast 8 Linked to Weaken Toughness 10 (Extras: Ranged) (Flaws: Affects Objects Only +0) (36)
Protection 3 (3)
-- (39 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Melting Beam +8 (+8 Ranged Damage & +10 Ranged Weaken, DC 23 & 18)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +3 (+6 Armor), Fortitude +5, Will +3

Complications:
Motivation (Revenge on Tony Stark)

Total: Abilities: 38 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 32 / Defenses: 12 (99)

-This guy's a rival muntions maker of Stark's that went out of business after his cost-cutting went too far (a government safety inspection team proved he was using subpar materials), and Tony Stark got all his sweet contracts. In revenge, he built a suit that could destroy and "melt" all metals, requiring Tony to use his head to win (quickly designing an inferior suit of armor composed of aluminum). See, now THAT's another Stan trait to be certain: the villains who counteract the hero so perfectly that the hero has to use their genius to win the day. The Melter could originally only melt Iron (so Tony built a temporary suit out of aluminum... it was the '60s, folks), then metals, and could finally melt lots of stuff, joining groups like The Masters of Evil on a few occasions, even showing up on the inaugural version, but is handily beaten by Iron Man after being drenched with water, which shorts out his beam.

-The Melter reappears on the Masters a few times, but is beaten easily by Thor after welding Iron Man's boots to a rooftop- he's on the squad that is betrayed by the new Black Knight (Dane Whitman) and the one beaten by the Lady Liberators. These 1960s appearances are basically the last he spends as a "real" threat- thereafter he's mostly written out as a jobber. Later, he joins the Death Squad in the contest arranged by the Black Lama- his allies are Whiplash & Man-Bull; later, he's just an employee of Justin Hammer. By this point, he had basically been downgraded from Potentially-Dangerous Threat (his "Melting" was almost a One-Shot-Win device) into a pure Jobber Villain- a total weakling joke. His credibility gone, he became one of the oldest and most-used villains sacrificed to The Scourge of the Underworld, who had disguised himself as the Melter's lab assistant and "Pum-SPAK!"ed him with a shotgun. It's actually quite funny in retrospect that this guy who ended up being an absolute nobody who never mattered appeared on the first 4-5 incarnations of the Avengers' most iconic foes.

-The Melter's a pretty smart guy, but a total one-noter- it's a standard Blast with the Disintegration trappings on top of it, but it's limited to Objects and not people. So he can hurt people with the Melting Ray, but it will only MELT stuff like Armor or other Devices. This makes him PL 9 as far as that goes, but he's PL 8 normally (and even lower defensively), and pretty much an aimless jobber.
Sidney369
Posts: 328
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:18 am

Re: The Melter (Horgan)

Post by Sidney369 »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 12:52 am Image
He deserved to die for those striped pants and flared boots
Always ask before you use someone's Original Character.
Never ever use them without permission. Only Villains do that.
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