Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Jabroniville
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Sons of Yinsen

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE SONS OF YINSEN
Created By:
Joe Quesada & Alitha Martinez
First Appearance: Iron Man #1/2 (1999)
Role: Heroic Allies, Yinsen-Worshippers
PL 7 (122)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 (+8)
Athletics 4 (+7)
Expertise (Religion) 4 (+9)
Perception 2 (+5)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Technology 6 (+11)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Close Attack 1, Equipment (Staffs & Stuff +1), Ranged Attack 4

Powers:
"Iron Man Gloves & Chest-Plates" (Flaws: Removable) [36]
Strength-Damage +1 (1)
"Chest-Plates" Protection 3 (3)
"Turbine Boot Jets" Flight 3 (16 mph) (6)
"Armor Sensors" Senses 11 (Extended & Infravision, Extended Hearing, Radar 4, Detect Energy- Ranged, Acute & Accurate) (11)
"Invisible to Detection" Concealment 4 (Vision- All Senses) (8)
"Repulsor Rays" Blast 7 (Feats: Split) (15)
-- (44 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Gloves +8 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Staffs +8 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Repulsor Rays +7 (+7 Ranged Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +4 (+7 Armor), Fortitude +6, Will +5

Complications:
Responsibility (Ho Yinsen's Memory)- The Sons of Yinsen honor the memory of Yinsen with a religious devotion to technology itself.

Total: Abilities: 62 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 36 / Defenses: 7 (122)

The Sons of Yinsen- Random Short-Lived Backstory Guys:
-The Sons of Yinsen are a brief part of the 2000s Iron Man book- a band of twelve genius monks who worship Ho Yinsen- the dead co-creator of the Iron Man armor, with religious devotion. Joe Quesada was the creator, but soon worked with Frank Tieri, who took over Tony's book and included these guys in a handful of issues between 2000-2002. See, Yinsen trained his greatest student, Sun-Tao. However, Yinsen was captured by Wong-Chu and forced to build weapons- Yinsen sacrificed his life to allow Tony time to don the Iron Man suit and defeat Wong-Chu and his followers. Sun-Tao thus ran off with Yinsen's book and taught a new band of people, who now worshipped Yinsen and how he predicted the modern world of life, death, and technology. They created some inventions to give them wealth enough to create even grander things, and soon gathered thousands of Yinsen-worshippers. Their Tibet-like country, New Timbetpal, soon build them a massive FLOATING CITY, and everyone but Sun-Tao took a vow of silence.

-All of the devoted were non-violent, save the Twelve Sons (including one woman), who wore variations of the Iron Man armor. They viewed Iron Man as the living embodiment of Yinsen's dreams, seeing him as the perfect merger of man and machine, and believing that on his arrival, he transcended to a higher plane of existence. This was all infodumped to Tony when he discovered the Sons, who'd attacked Kyoto, Japan, while chasing after a man who bid on the brain of Ho Yinsen. Iron Man fought their drones, but soon met the Sons, who knealt before him, and joined him in attacking Wong-Chu, who was revealed to still be alive. Wong-Chu used hostages to disarm the heroes, then killed the hostages anyways, but Tony cleverly set up a trap via pre-planning and brought hundreds of drones to their aid. A female Son was killed in the ensuing battle after Iron Man beat Wong-Chu into submission, and another follower, secretly in love with her, executed the villain with a machete.

Ultron Takes Over & The All Die:
-The group next appeared placing the brain of Yinsen into a robotic body, proclaiming it their leader... however, Ultron had infiltrated the thing, and instead became an erratic, brutal leader to the group, branding Sun-Tao as insane when he became suspicious, wiping out his mind. The new public face of the religion was Tiger Minn, the youth who'd killed Wong-Chu, and they brought "Yinsenism" to America, where it became a chic new religion (this was the era where everyone was looking at Kaballah and Wicca). Church members were turned into mindless soldiers and The Twelve fought Iron Man when he confronted "Yinsen"- eventually, the truth was uncovered and Jocasta (then an A.I. in Stark's own armor) helped them decapitate Ultron/Yinsen and send him away.

-However, when Yinsen's brain was properly hooked up, Ultron sent a pre-recorded message that New Timbetpal would self-destruct- to Tony's horror, the revived Yinsen said they would do nothing to prevent this (as the city was the ultimate extension of their beliefs), and ordered Sun-Tao to flee and start anew- he incapacitated Tony (via his artificial heart) and had Sun-Tao take him away, so everyone on the floating city could die in a mass suicide. Stark was in disbelief, thinking this couldn't have been Yinsen, while Sun-Tao believed that it was. The true answer was never discovered. Sun-Tao has never reappeared, even as Dr. Toni Ho, Yinsen's daughter, joined modern Marvel.

-Never having read this story, I'm unsure of what to think. Apparently a lot of people disliked this, and it's certainly pretty convoluted and wild, dealing with a new part of Iron Man's past, mysterious super-geniuses that don't do much genius-ing, ULTRON randomly taking over as a fake messiah, and then the mass suicide of everyone involved, thus erasing their giant floating city anyways, so nobody else can use it.

The Sons of Yinsen's Skills:
-The Sons are all said to be "Geniuses" but all we ever see is them wearing lesser versions of Iron Man's gear, sporting armored gloves, feet and heads most often. They're all martial artists, fighting like Shao Lin Monks in armor, but they're still pretty minor-tier. Their key advantage is being largely invisible, but once that's overcome via other means, someone like Iron Man can make short work of much of the group.
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Woodclaw
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Guardsman! Cobalt Man! War Machine!)

Post by Woodclaw »

Ares wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:47 pm Rhodey was a solid example of how Michelinie added to the Iron Man mythos, creating someone who would become such a vital part of Iron Man's supporting cast and a hero in his own right. His retcon origin helped explain how Tony made it back to civilization and gave Tony someone to partner up with who had a very different feel from Happy Hogan. Between Rhodey, Bethany, Abe, Scott Lang, Michelinie really did add a lot to the Marvel Universe.

Rhodey also showed the problem of taking a supporting character and making them a hero in their own right. A big part of Rhodey's charm is how he plays off with Tony. The two are more fun together than they are apart. However, by having Rhodey become Iron Man and then War Machine, it showed that Rhodey could function as a hero on his own. But then you either have to split him off from Tony (in which case you lose their fun interaction) or you keep him around, but since he isn't the main hero he often winds up jobbing to make Tony look good (like he tended to do in the Iron Man animated series). It's why Michelinie had Rhodey suffer trauma in the armor and ensure he wouldn't willingly wear the Iron Man armor again anytime soon (though this was built on things O'neil had established in his own run): to keep Rhodey around without turning Rhodey into a jobber. And sadly, despite having had his own solo book, Rhodey still wound up as a perpetual jobber, sacrificial lamb and not-quite solo hero.

So Rhodey winds up in this weird catch 22 where folks want to see him interacting with Tony, they want him to be a hero in his own right, but they want Tony to have his own solo series. Honestly, I'm not sure how I'd handle it. Rhodey could work well in a team book, but again, you miss out on the interaction between him and Tony. And if you have Rhodey as a supporting cast member in Tony's book, you have to explain why he isn't regularly suiting up in his armor, or you have him helping Tony out as War Machine regularly, and thus it's lessens some of the tension by giving Tony someone equally powerful and capable that he can always rely on.
Post-2005 Rhodey is pretty much a victim of his own gimmick: anything the authors want to do with Tony but they can't because of the character renewed popularity, they do the Rhodey.
Many of his weird changes (cyborg, etc.) were more or less test run to see how far you can push one of the big divider among Iron Man fans: the armor. One of the things I always disliked about the post-Busiek Iron Man stories is how Tony started to become the armor. Little by little parts of the suit were incorporated into Tony himself.
Aside from those, the one thing I found absolutely unforgivable is the entire storyline with Carol Danvers, which existed only to provide extra drama for Civil War II. The fact that Rhodey came back the minute the crossover was done tells you all you really need to know on how much care went into the story.

Ares wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:47 pm The Eidolon Warwear is a concept I always loved, and wish it would get explored more. The idea of this alien race that had created these Iron Man-class bio-organic suits and had become an elite fighting force is COOL. The fact that the armor is literally playing some kind of alien death metal during a fight is cool. The whole bit about it being able to shape itself into weapons and remote drones is COOL. And it was a good way to make Rhodey his own hero without having to rely on Tony for tech support.

Again, separating Tony from Rhodey is an issue, and the classic War Machine armor is cool and iconic, so it makes sense that they'd go back to it. But I think the Eidolon armor would be fun to give to someone else and explore that legacy of the Marvel Universe. Like, giving this armor to Sam Alexander instead of making him the new primary Nova would have been a better choice, IMO.
I remember an interview where Dan Abnett explained his reasons for removing the iconic black and silver armor and replacing it with the Eidolon. It was down to a very simple premise: Rhodey is one of the few superheroes whose psychology and character were well established before he donned the armor, as a result, he's still recognizable even without his signature gear.
Given that, the Eidolon was an interesting concept and you can see how Abnett reused many of his ideas to redesign Darkhawk, but I still prefer the old style heavy-duty armor.
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

WareHouse W (main build thread for M&M)
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Ghost

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE GHOST (Real Name Unknown)
Created By:
David Michelinie & Bob Layton
First Appearance: Iron Man #219 (June 1987)
Role: Industrial Saboteur
PL 10 (176)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Deception 5 (+5)
Expertise (Science) 9 (+14)
Expertise (Business) 4 (+9)
Intimidation 6 (+6)
Perception 8 (+10)
Stealth 2 (+5)
Technology 10 (+15)

Advantages:
Benefit (No Real Identity- Erased From Public Knowledge), Equipment 7, Hide In Plain Sight, Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"Ghost Costume" (Flaws: Easily Removable) [56]
Insubstantial 4 (Feats: Subtle) (Extras: Affects Others, Affects Objects, Attack, Reaction) (37) -- (38)
  • AE: "Invisibility" Concealment 2 (Vision) (Extras: Affects Others, Affects Objects) (16)
Enhanced Skills 10: Stealth 10 (+15) (5)
"Phasing Attack" Damage 10 (Feats: Penetrating 10) (Extras: Affects Corporeal) (Flaws: Limited to Toughness & Size of Objects Phased) (20)
"Tamper With Electronics" Affliction 10 (Tech Skill of Creator; Dazed/Stunned/Incapacitated) (Extras: Ranged) (Flaws: Limited to Electromagnetic Signals -2) (5)
Flight 2 (8 mph) (Flaws: Low Ceiling) (2)
-- (70 points)

"Special Gun" (Flaws: Easily Removable) [11]
Blast 8 (Feats: Variable Descriptor- Laser or Electricity) (17 points)

Equipment:
"Spy Gear" (5)
"Grenades" Blast 8 (Feats: Ricochet 2, Homing 2) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (28) -- (29)
AE: "Bombs" Damage 10 (Feats: Triggered- Sound) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (21)

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Phasing Attack +10 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Special Gun +10 (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Grenades +8 Area (+8 Ranged Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +3, Fortitude +5, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Destroying Capitalism)- The Ghost is an anti-capitalist crusader who seeks to destroy corporations. He will hire himself out as a saboteur, but often betrays his own employers.
Responsibility (Weird)- The Ghost no longer deals with people on an emotional level, and comes across as bizarre to others. He also stinks. Badly.

Total: Abilities: 58 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 15 / Powers: 67 / Defenses: 14 (176)

The Ghost- Anti-Capitalist Saboteur:
-The Ghost is a lower-level Iron Man threat that showed up here and there throughout the 1980s as part of the Michelinie/Layton run on the book (which featured a lot of new characters and old ones, since Iron Man's Rogues Gallery has always been a bit... lacking) as an industrial saboteur, much like Spymaster, but a bit more focused around raw destruction. In this, he sort of represents the kind of villain that can offer up another side of the hero, and the world in which he inhabits- as Tony Stark represents Capitalism in its kindest form (he's all about philanthropy and hiring on skilled people and treating them well, and such), a lot of his enemies represent its dark side. The Ghost, however, makes no such distinctions, and will destroy Stark Enterprises as well- even though some of his causes are just, and his victims deserving, he takes it much too far. A weird sort of anti-hero/saboteur/assassin, he's actually VERY unique, and was dreadfully under-utilized for years- he's actually been used MORE in the past 15 years, and with more far-reaching effects, than ever before.

-The Ghost started off as an anti-capitalist saboteur, trying to destroy corporations- it would be revealed much later that he was screwed-over by his old bosses, who desired only profit- they'd hired a worker to seduce him to keep him tied to the business instead of going on vacation, then murdered her when she blackmailed them for more money. Infuriated, the introverted, socially-awkward man used his "Ghost Tech" processors that'd made his bosses rich and became The Ghost using them to destroy corporations, which he now realized were nothing but greed and evil metastasized. His first act was to murder the board of directors, his "girlfriend's" killer, then erase all evidence of his past identity- he thus became a cipher- a real "ghost". He then hired himself out as a mercenary industrial saboteur, theorizing that the best way to destroy corporations was to get them to pay him to do it to others.

The Ghost Debuts:
-The Ghost debuted fighting Iron Man after Roxxon hired him to wipe out a company that Tony Stark wished to buy. He went rogue and Roxxon turned on him, hiring the Spymaster to kill him, but the Ghost killed his adversary in battle by making him materialized into a wall (Spymaster later reappeared after more than two decades, having faked his death). Iron Man managed to stop him by pumping radiation into a room to dampen his suit's intangibility, but the psychotic villain kept coming- he ended up melting through the floor in the classic "He's probably not dead" ending. The Ghost became a recurring foe who was often more of a nuisance than a MAJOR threat, but tricky in that he's an Insubstantial sort who can easily avoid capture. So he's also one of those "you have to THINK your way out" villains that you can't just punch to death, which suits a high-powered, but still very intelligent, hero like Iron Man.

-In his next appearance, the Ghost is set up by Justin Hammer AND Iron Man, but Hammer has his supervillain agents try to kill both- the Ghost escapes. He is hired by the Kingpin to steal Roxxon's synthetic vibranium, fighting Spider-Man and the Black Panther before being beaten by Sunturion, then Ultron. Later, he is hired by A.I.M. to destroy many companies, doing so but drawing in Iron Man- when he attempts to phase through Tony's heart, he is shocked by the then-artificial device and beaten. He was FINALLY arrested after numerous years of escaping, but again his identity was unknown. Later, he showed up in a streamlined costume, hired by the third Spymaster to free the Living Laser, and escaped capture again.

Modern Ghost Stories:
-The Ghost becomes a different sort of character after the modern Dark Reign event, becoming a reclusive, foul-smelling weirdo with obsessive tendencies. A pretty big shift, making him more comedic in a sick sort of way. Norman Osborn used him as part of a black ops team- The Ghost, being anti-corporate, nonetheless FREQUENTLY teams up with Evil Businessmen that he should hate. And in any case, he fully-planned on betraying Osborn as soon as he created an uber-corporation that controlled the world (that's actually kind of smart- it's easier to break ALL corporations if there's only ONE of them, after all), got recruited into the new Thunderbolts. He, Paladin & Headsman would turn on the T-Bolts to save Songbird's life (Ghost admitted his mission as a "mole" to the Black Widow, who also wanted to spare Songbird), making his allies forget via electro-convulsive shocks.

-The Ghost finally betrayed Osborn, revealing his deceptions during Siege. He was later hired to kill a comatose Tony Stark by Madame Masque, but failed, being forcibly teleported away when Tony hacked his own gear. Luke Cage later recruits the Ghost onto HIS version of the Thunderbolts, but later tried to kill Tony Stark anyhow- Stark beat him by letting him know that all Stark divisions were then shut down- the Ghost immediately gave up the fight, as Stark was now no longer a business-owner and thus could be spared. It was only here that we learned his origin story, told to Moonstone. Most recently, he was responsible for destroying the Parker Industries building- the multi-million dollar company Otto Octavius built while in Peter Parker's body. Though he was beaten and captured by Spider-Man, he blew up the building with bombs.

The Ghost as a Whole:
-The Ghost is thus a kind of interesting foe- one you can't just punch to death, and also one with a very specific motivation that might otherwise be sympathetic. He's both a mercenary AND an idealist, and unlike a lot of super-villains (namely, nearly every one who's an assassin, who are terribly-bad at assassinating named characters), he more often than not SUCCEEDS as what he wants to accomplish! Numerous companies and buildings have been destroyed by him, and he's even evaded capture more often than not. If his goals were more murderous, he'd be an even more terrifying threat.

The Ghost's Powers:
-The Ghost's entire concept revolves around being hard to see and hard to hurt- he isn't a horrific fighter, but is able to cause Iron Man trouble by virtue of his defensive capabilities and his weaponry- that plus Affects Corporeal Phasing Attacks count for a lot. There simply aren't a lot of ways for even SMART heroes to affect somebody who can't be touched- the complexities of "Affects Insubstantial" are not easy to come by in actual comics, though a lot of cheeseball players go for it, and overly-kind GMs might allow Power Stunts for it.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Barrier

Post by Jabroniville »

Can't download pictures- find image here.

BARRIER (Marvin Bailey)
Created By:
Gary Barnum & John Stanisci
First Appearance: The Incredible Hulk Annual #17 (1991)
Role: Jobber Villain, One-Off Threat
Group Affiliations: Justin Hammer's Employ

-Barrier is a weird one-off- created for what was probably a filler story in a Hulk annual, he worked with Blacklash and The Ringer on behalf of Justin Hammer, forcing the superhero Thunderbolt to team up with them and steal some plans from the Pentagon. However, they were opposed by Ulysses and Achilles of The Pantheon (oh my god- they didn't even rate the HULK? They fought his SIDE CHARACTERS?). Barrier attacked Achilles but was punched into the air and knocked out. That's it! That's his entire existence as a character!

-Barrier apparently had the ability to increase his mass to the point of being unmovable, but his one appearance consists of him being moved with authority. Probably just Increased Mass/Durability, but PL 7-ish at best.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Earth-Mover (Dr. Stone)

Post by Jabroniville »

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EARTH-MOVER II (Dr. Maximillian Stone)
Created By:
Len Kaminski & Tom Tenney
First Appearance: Iron Man #298 (Nov. 1993)
Role: Jobber Villain, One-Off Threat
Group Affiliations: Justin Hammer's Employ

-Earth-Mover is another guy from the "Len Kaminski Run"- the head researcher at a geothermal factory Tony Stark had built in an extinct volcano, Dr. Stone was victimized when the giant robot Ultimo, trapped under the Earth by Iron Man years ago, moved underneath the volcano, reactivating it. Dr. Stone used the drill core to save the day, but fell into the liquid magma- there, a "magma entity" discovered him and saved his life, but both were doomed unless they merged. Agreeing, Stone fused with the creature, becoming Earth-Mover. Tony Stark, then recovering from a techno-organic parasite, piloted a Remote-Control Iron Man Armor and attacked Earth-Mover, thinking he was responsible for the quakes, until finally Dr. Stone was able to recover some speech, ending the fight. However, then Ultimo finally broke free and attacked- in the next issue, the two managed to hamper him, but Ultimo's eye-breams destroyed Earth-Mover, vaporizing the combined being.

-That's... a bunch of effort to create an origin story for a guy who's gonna die in the first part of the very next issue. The Marvunapp writer notes the same thing, and presumes that we were supposed to see Earth-Mover again (given how it was a dude who WAS SAVED FROM LIQUID MAGMA, survivability doesn't seem to be an issue with him), but despite Kaminski writing another twenty issues of Iron Man, it just never happened. He suggested in a letters column that Earth-Mover was to join a "Social Justice" team with Atom-Smasher and Mindstorm II, opposing Iron Man as heroes of a different stripe, but then The Crossing happened and Iron Man was completely derailed. So that explains that.

-Earth-Mover had some geokinetic powers, and was constructed of rock and magma, allowing him to reconstitute himself a bit from harm.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Jan 02, 2024 8:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Mindstorm (Jessup)

Post by Jabroniville »

MINDSTORM II (Sarah Jessup)
Created By:
Len Kaminski & Gene Colan
First Appearance: Iron Man Annual #15 (1994)
Role: Jobber Villain, One-Off Threat
Group Affiliations: Justin Hammer's Employ

-Mindstorm was to form a "Social Justice" team with Earth-Mover and Atom-Smasher according to writer Len Kaminski, but The Crossing derailed Iron Man for years and that never ended up happening. She debuted in an Iron Man Annual as a comatose "latent psychic", kept drugged by The Controller, who wanted to use her powers for his own gain. Overwhelmed by the experience, she awakened with tremendous psionic powers, lashing out as an energy being. She forced Iron Man (who'd interfered) and the Controller to experience each other's memories before the villain shut down the machine, depowering her. Without any energies to sustain herself, Sarah Jessup screamed and vanished. And because Kaminski's plan never panned out, that was essentially the death of the character.

-Mindstorm was a VERY powerful psychic thanks to the Controller's interference, turning the latent psychic into a mind-reading, mind-controlling mental powerhouse.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Count Nefaria

Post by Jabroniville »

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COUNT NEFARIA (Luchino Nefaria)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: The Avengers #13 (Feb. 1965)
Role: '60s Villain Turned Evil Superman, Mob Boss
Group Affiliations: The Maggia, The Lethal Legion
PL 16 (298)
STRENGTH
20 STAMINA 16 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 5

Skills:
Deception 6 (+11)
Expertise (Criminal) 8 (+13)
Expertise (Business) 4 (+9)
Insight 2 (+6)
Intimidation 1 (+6)
Perception 2 (+6)
Persuasion 1 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Lasers) 2 (+12)

Advantages:
Benefit (Wealth) 5, Close Attack, Fast Grab, Improved Critical 2 (Blast, Unarmed), Last Stand, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Withstand Damage

Equipment:
"Enhanced Versions of Super-Villains' Powers"
"Power-Man/Erik Josten"
Power-Lifting 4 (200,000 tons) [4]
Protection 5 (Extras: Impervious 13) [18]
"Ionic Being" Immunity 11 (Aging, Life Support) [11]
Regeneration 8 [8]

"Whirlwind"
Flight 12 (8,000 mph) [24]
Enhanced Advantages 2: Improved Initiative 2 [2]

"Living Laser"
Blast 18 (Feats: Penetrating 8) (44) -- [46]
  • AE: "Laser Burst" Damage 16 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone) (38)
  • AE: "Ionic Constructs" Create 18 (36)
Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+20 Damage, DC 35)
Laser Blast +12 (+18 Ranged Damage, DC 33)
Laser Burst +16 Area (+16 Damage, DC 31)
Initiative +10

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +21, Fortitude +16, Will +8

Complications:
Involuntary Transformation (Ionic Being)- Nefaria is sometimes prone to losing cohesion and becoming energy- he needs to absorb some energy first. This has faded over time, but his daughter Madame Masque once shot him with something that could do it.
Motivation (Power)

Total: Abilities: 134 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 18 / Powers: 113 / Defenses: 20 (298)

Count Nefaria- The Failed Super-Powerhouse:
-Count Nefaria is a fascinating look at a failure of a character who seemingly has everything going for him... but just comes up short. He's a very odd sort of guy, because he's like Graviton and a few other guys- a dude who has all the power, motivation and willpower to become a true Mega-Villain- a top-tier threat (he's virtually an "Evil Superman" before that became a cliche), yet he just ISN'T and nobody really cares about him. And he's a Stan Lee original! Not only that, but he debuted in the early days of The Avengers, sharing an era with most of Marvel's big recurring villains for the next few decades! So like... what's the deal?

-Nefaria debuted in 1965 as the non-powered aristocratic Italian leader of "The Maggia"- an obvious stand-in for the real life Mafia based in Sicily and the Eastern U.S., but... y'know, they didn't want to get blown up by the ACTUAL MAFIA so they made up an obviously-similar term to get away with it. He was a powerful crimeboss, back when every book seemed to debut a new power-player in the New York criminal scene- Daredevil, Spider-Man and others all fought brand-new guys with this claim to fame, and wanted to frame the Avengers for doing bad things in the age-old "Imposter Heroes" type of story. He had the team placed in suspended animation and had having images of them shown threatening to control America. The Avengers are released, but grow suspicious and invade his castle- they are beaten again, but Captain America and the "Teen Brigade" of Rick Jones saves them- Nefaria nearly kills Cap, but Iron Man attacks, and Nefaria is deported when an officer overhears him confess to being in the Maggia. Subsequent battles see him face Iron Man and the X-Men, failing against both.

Later Nefaria Stories:
-So yeah, at first Count Nefaria is just a Generic Crimeboss! His powers came LATER. He is chosen out of nowhere as one of the first big enemies faced by the All-New, All-Different X-Men- he empowers the Ani-Men to attack the heroes, but bails on the fight when they're beaten- the X-Man Thunderbird becomes one of the first Marvel superheroes ever killed, dying by being an idiot fighting Nefaria on his getaway plane. Nefaria is thought-dead as well. And despite this fatality, Nefaria is never again targetted by the X-Men for revenge- even WARPATH, whose entire debut and characterization was based around revenge for his brother's death, doesn't seem to have it out for him! They barely even mention HOW Proudstar died or who he died fighting- they just go "oh, he died. That sucked" and blame themselves.

-Nefaria reappears, now "destitute and discredited", using a new Lethal Legion (Living Laser, Erik "Power Man" Josten & Whirlwind) to face the Avengers, empowering them further with Baron Heinrich Zemo's science- when beaten, the Legion's powers are combined and drained into Nefaria himself, who amplifies them a HUNDREDFOLD, becoming the uber-powerful villain he's known as today. Nefaria became a full-blown Teamwrecker, taking on entire Avengers squads in this and later stories. After a long, protracted battle here, he is finally defeated by the heroes. This is apparently quite the epic (the Marvunapp bio writer LOVED it and said it got him into comics- the team of Jim Shooter and John Byrne (truly forever cast as allies) made him a true powerhouse.

-He is imprisoned, and his condition is believed to be deteriorating- his daughter, the villainess Madame Masque, tries to help him. He is killed by a landing vehicle during the subsequent break-out attempt, and reappears much later as a reanimated corpse, controlled by the Grim Reaper- he loses and dies once more. When he finally returns to life, it's 14 years later in Thunderbolts as a Wonder Man-style Ionic Energy Being, and he requires energy to remain in existence- he fights Iron Man, then Captain America & Ka-Zar, then detonates an "Ion Bomb" that turns other people into beings like himself, and controls Wonder Man & Atlas (Josten again) with them as his army. The Avengers, Thunderbolts & Madame Masque (horrified by how her father is so evil he killed her clone thinking it was her) all team up to stop him, Masque using a device she created to disrupt his energy form. This is the end of him in the Pre-Quesada era. So really, he's only appeared in a handful of stories by that point.

Modern Count Nefaria:
-Nefaria reappears on The Raft in Bendis's new Avengers stories, escaping, but being captured along with his daughter by the Avengers. In Moon Knight, he becomes "Kingpin of Los Angeles", killing Echo in battle but again being arrested. Later, he survives an assassination attempt by Daken and is now just in NYC again, failing against Squirrel Girl. Then he's part of an army of villains angry about the Pleasant Hill prison (where villains were mind-wiped to acting as normal people in a fake town), then turns up in LA again fighting the "Superior Octopus" (Doc Ock in a cloned body of Peter Parker's), being beaten when Ock threatens his family members from afar. Later, Nefaria appears wheelchair-bound for some reason, forming a new Lethal Legion (Grey Gargoyle, Living Laser & Whirlwind)- Spider-Man, Curt Connors & the Sin-Eater all get involved, with the Sin-Eater immobilizing the villains and getting them arrested, literally taking away their sins. Nefaria thus regains his evil nature, going on a rampage.

Why Nefaria Kinda Sucks:
-WELL... it turns out it's not actually that FAIR to call him a failure, because it seems clear very few ever really TRIED to make him a dominant force. He was only ever really a "filler villain", even by his creator Stan Lee- to the point where he dusted off one of the goddamn X-MEN and Chris Claremont, obsessed with all of his characters, never even bothered to revisit him in 20-ish years on that damn book. In his debut and most subsequent storylines, he's just a generic Mob Boss with a pretty cool name (like, COUNT NEFARIA- that is BAD-ASS). When he finally gains powers, it's in a random Avengers story with the dumb Lethal Legion, and he very quickly dies. It isn't until the late '90s when Kurt Busiek is like "Hey, remember THIS guy? He was a huge threat!" and makes him a World-Threatening Mega-Villain, at which point he's beaten and nobody else cares- funnily enough, Graviton, a similar "Lotsa Power; No Personality" doofus, has the same kind of story happen in Thunderbolts as well. And then you get the past couple of decades where most villains were just "A Face in The Crowd" and don't matter, so he's kind of forgotten and probably not even really that powerful anymore. To be fair, he was a bit TOO powerful to justify appearing in anything but a "big deal" bout- no hero can really take him on solo, even in the modern "Villains Job More Easily" era. For all his toughness, writers just aren't that taken with him in general.

Count Nefaria's Power:
-Nefaria is incredibly powerful overall. He can dish out +19 Damage, and take even MORE than that (he's taken Wonder Man's punches and not even flinched, and laughed off THOR's attacks, up to and including catching Mjolnir with one hand! He can and has taken on the entirety of The Avengers and The Thunderbolts at once (something even The Silver Surfer could not do), making him one of the most powerful villains any hero team has ever faced. Given the way M&M fights can normally go (with teams greatly overpowering solo characters) this is tough to stat without making him PL 20 or something, but his high toughness and Regeneration should take care of it. At PL 16, he's equivalent in power to Graviton (his nearest competitor in terms of "Rarely-appearing super-villains with IMMENSE team-wrecking potential), The World-Serpent, Cassandra Nova and Thanos at his baseline, which sounds about right, despite his relative lack of use in the world of comics.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Stane! Sons of Yinsen! The Ghost! Count Nefaria!)

Post by Goldar »

Great profile Jab, especially that first iconic pic!

I love that Count got this super-uber power-up and cool costume.

While I liked the Avengers who fought him, I love that they landed on their fannies fighting him! Bwahahaha.

I also loved the look of surprise and fear in each of the characters when fighting someone who vastly outclasses them.

With his powers literally 100X all of the villains, Count Nefaria is certainly one of strongest characters in Marvel, as well as one of the most powerful.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Stane! Sons of Yinsen! The Ghost! Count Nefaria!)

Post by Ares »

Count Nefaria really is one of those guys who should be a bigger deal. The problem with guys like Graviton is that writers will often play up Graviton as TOO powerful but with no solid motivation. He's someone who can fight the entire Avengers roster that includes Wonder Man, Iron Man, Thor and the Vision, hold them in place, but never had a clear motivation. It got to the point that his lack of motivation became his motivation over in Thunderbolts. They really needed to give the guy something to do if they wanted to make use of him.

Count Nefaria never had that problem. He was a crime boss who originally wanted to use science and cleverness to establish his family's power, and then later gained superpowers so that he wouldn't have to rely on other superpower agents for his plans. Once he got that power it quickly went to his head, as he realized money no longer mattered to him because he could simply take what he wanted without anyone being able to stop him. Then when he thought he was dying, his motivation became gaining access to Thor's hammer, believing said hammer was the secret to Thor's immortality. He was unfortunately de-powered after that initial storyline and then killed shortly after over in Iron Man.

Thankfully, Kurt Busiek remembered that since Count Nefaria had been given Power Man's Pre-Goliath/Atlas powers, it meant that he too had become an ionic being like Wonder Man and Atlas, and thus death didn't mean the same thing for him. So he was able to return, and Busiek gave him what I think should honestly be Nefaria's big motivation: respect. He doesn't want to rule the world, he's quiet content to be in charge of his mafia family and be a superpowered crime boss, he just wants everyone to treat him and his family with the proper respect he is due and stop pestering him with their silly laws. He's for increasing his wealth and power, but he also demands that other people recognize his personal nobility and the nobility of his family.

So Nefaria has a clear motivation, which is one solid thing he has over guys like Graviton. And it's a fun one as well, making him different from the kind of world ending threats. Nefaria isn't out to take over the world, but he wants to increase his respect and standing within it. He's very much like this hybrid of Kingpin, Dracula and Dr. Doom, and if they leaned in to that they'd have a solid characterization and theme for the guy.

As for his power, Nefaria IS really powerful, but his power level tends to be a bit overblown at times. He did take on an Avengers contingent and mop the floor with them, but the Avengers present were Captain America, the Beast, the Black Panther, the Scarlet Witch, the Wasp, Yellowjacket and Wonder Man. Of that group, Wonder Man was shown to be able to actually hurt Nefaria, but if Nefaria braced himself, he could take being hit without being knocked backwards (basically making himself immovable). Nefaria actually considered Simon second in strength only to himself (though to be fair, he hadn't fought Thor yet).

Later, when Iron Man showed up, Tony was able to briefly hold his own against Nefaria by maxing out his suit and overcharging his systems, basically enhancing his suit to Thor-levels at the cost of burning through his entire energy reserves in a minute or so. He was able to hurt Nefaria during that time, but Nefaria was able to outlast Tony and, when his power failed, KOed Tony with a punch. Simon stepped in and again showed that he could hurt Nefara, and claimed that if he had the kind of heroic determination of the other Avengers, he had the power necessary to defeat Nefaria. But Nefaria was able to defeat him as well.

Then Nefaria had his fight with Thor, and it was clear that Thor's punches and hammer strike did hurt Nefaria and knock him around, but Nefaria also demonstrated superior strength by catching a charged up Mjolnir with one hand, surprising Thor and letting Nefaria get a hit in. Then Vision showed up, and the team of Thor, Iron Man, the Vision, Scarlet Witch and Wonder Man (using Captain America's shield) took on Nefaria, and basically took turns slapping him around, ending with the Vision doing his 500 ton sky drop that KOed Nefaria.

So Nefaria was shown to be someone who could take on the Avengers, but he was also someone the more powerful Avengers like Thor or Wonder Man could fight solo and definitely harm.

Later on, when Busiek brought Nefaria back, he had his new ionic state be slightly flawed in that he used up more ionic energy than he internally generated, so to quickly refill his energy reserves he had to capture other ionic beings and drain them of iconic power. Initially this proved fatal to a few of them, but doing this to Atlas and Wonder Man allowed Nefaria to place them under his mental control. With a steady source of ionic energy, Nefaria was able to tap off his reserves and store up to two weeks worth of energy inside of him.

Then he fought the Avengers and Thunderbolts, and while that's still impressive, it's slightly less impressive because of the line ups involved.

On the Avengers side, you had Iron Man, Wasp, Captain America, Triathlon, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Carol Danvers (during her mid-level days), She-Hulk (during her Thing-class days) and the Vision.

On the Thunderbolts side, you had Hawkeye, MACH-1, Charcoal, Songbird and the Black Widow acting as a temporary member.

So basically, the most powerful people there in terms of physical power were the Vision and She-Hulk, and neither of whom were usually portrayed as a Wonder Man/Thor/Hercules level powerhouse. It was kind of interesting tho, in that during the Avengers first fight with Nefaria, much was made of his strength over his durability, as he was able to decisively put down Avengers outside of their powerhouses. Meanwhile in the Avengers/Thunderbolts fight, Nefaria never really KOed any of his opponents, but he was able to take everything both teams could dish out and keep coming. They needed the Ionic Lock they used on him to destabilize him and make him bleed through his reserves more quickly, and once it became clear that his plan had failed, his inability to hold himself together caused him to explode. But like most ionic beings, he came back eventually.

Overall I'd say that Nefaria is more generally someone who is one 'step' above top tier heroes like Thor or Wonder Man, essentially being a more powerful version of Wonder Man across the board, but with eye beams as well. It's enough of a power advantage that Simon or Thor would never win a fight with Nefaria simply by trading punches, but not so great that Nefaria isn't hurt by every punch Thor or Wonder Man hit him with. He's honestly a great opponent for Thor, because he's someone who forces Thor to rely on his warrior skills, and thus Thor could potentially defeat Nefaria through superior skill and landing more hits on Nefaria than Nefaria lands on him. Likewise, Simon could win via his Captain America training and fighting smarter than just getting into a slugfest. But he's someone who would always be displayed as having a physical advantage, and require something more than raw strength to defeat, whether it's skill, strategy, technology or superior numbers.

I think if I were going to portray Nefaria, I'd say that when he came back from his death during the Avengers/Thunderbolts incident, it re-stabilized his systems to where he can 'power down' himself to where he's 'merely' in that sort of Luke Cage level of power where he's durable and strong, but defeatable. But while he's in this lower powered state, every 2 or 3 hours of downtime gives him 1 hour of his full power, and he can store days, even weeks of that power. But while he will indulge in using that power, more often than not he will sit on it and save it for when his family and organization need it. He remembers what it was like to lose that power and be reduced to a crippled old man, and he will do anything to not be that again.

So for most of his time, he's a powerful maria boss that is scary by all human standards, even a lot of superhuman standards, but he can at will amp himself to because a high end powerhouse. This creates a situation where other crime families and organizations are reluctant to move against him because if try to kill him and fail, then his retribution is going to be terrible. And if they DO kill them, he'll just come back in a month or so, and when he does his body might have corrected the current flaw it has and he'll be at his unstoppable power level 24/7.

Thus he's a crime boss of significant but not overwhelming power unless he needs, and he makes a solid Avengers opponent because his plans and schemes can be thwarted and he can always give a good fight, but there can always come a point where he can be made to back off because the damage being done is costing him more in the long run.

I mean, a mob boss who can become someone powerful enough to threaten Thor or the Hulk is someone who should get more use. Not being jobbed out to frickin Moon Knight. Given their respective nobility, power and respect, I could honestly see Dr. Doom and Count Nefaria being two individuals that play chess or likewise just hang out and do 'old world nobility / rich people stuff', and are actually quite content to stay out of each other's way. Doom wants to rule the world, while Nefaria is content to rule the underworld so long as he's given the proper respect by all. If both men show eac other the proper respect, they'll get along just fine.

Also, I frickin love Nefaria's costume.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Stane! Sons of Yinsen! The Ghost! Count Nefaria!)

Post by Goldar »

Nefaria turned over a 40-story building on the Avengers and they could not stop it/him. The best they could do was to dig out a spot so as not to be crushed while Wonder Man held up the roofing, afraid to shove it away for fear of collapsing it inward.

Thor's hammer thrown with all of Thor's might did indeed topple Nefaria, but it did not hurt him, just surprised him, and anyone would likewise have been bowled over by the sheer power and momentum. However, Nefaria had the strength and durability to not only stop a lightning-surrounded Mjolnir easily, but over-powered Thor causing Thor to drop his hammer.

Nefaria also possessed whirlwind's power and while he could spin, did not have to do that. But he did possess superspeed at 5000 mph.

Nefaria could also fly on his own without wings or spinning.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Stane! Sons of Yinsen! The Ghost! Count Nefaria!)

Post by Ares »

Goldar wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 3:16 am Nefaria turned over a 40-story building on the Avengers and they could not stop it/him. The best they could do was to dig out a spot so as not to be crushed while Wonder Man held up the roofing, afraid to shove it away for fear of collapsing it inward.
Wonder Man actually caught the collapsing building, but was in a bit of a catch 22. He had the strength to lift the building, but it was collapsing under it's own weight, and if he pushed too hard it would have broken more. So instead he slowed it down, gave Yellowjacket and Wanda the chance to make a safe space and Simon supported its weight. It wasn't a lack of strength, but building integrity.

Beast even mentioned that the faster Avengers could have gotten out of the way, but they didn't want to leave their friends.

Simon and Thor could just as easily drop skyscrapers on Nefaria, they just don't because they k ow (unlike Zack Snyder) that wanton destruction of property like that isn't very heroic.

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Thor's hammer thrown with all of Thor's might did indeed topple Nefaria, but it did not hurt him, just surprised him, and anyone would likewise have been bowled over by the sheer power and momentum. However, Nefaria had the strength and durability to not only stop a lightning-surrounded Mjolnir easily, but over-powered Thor causing Thor to drop his hammer.
Thor most certainly did harm Nefaria with his punches and hammer strikes. Nefaria said so himself. He was actually surprised he was still alive, but those hits definitely hurt him.

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Nefaria attributed the punch he lands on Thor due to Thor being surprised and off balance. And for the rest of the fight, Nefaria actively tried to avoid getting close to Thor, preferring to keep him at by by throwing a bus at him.

Thor, Wonder Man, the Vision and Iron Man were all shown to be able to hurt Nefaria with brute force, while the Scarlet Witch was able to hurt him with a powerful hex. Nefaria is powerful and strong, but that much stronger and more powerful that Thor or Simon. The whole "hundreds of times more powerful than Power Man, Living Laser and Whirlwind" was clearly hyperbole.
Nefaria also possessed whirlwind's power and while he could spin, did not have to do that. But he did possess superspeed at 5000 mph.

Nefaria could also fly on his own without wings or spinning.
Nefaria couldn't fly originally, only take great leaps.

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He only gained true flight later as part of the same ionic process that later allowed Wonder Man to fly on his own.

His actual speed was never clocked, as that's a Marvel handbook number you're citing, but his speed didn't really help him against Thor, and Wonder Man likewise has superspeef.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Stane! Sons of Yinsen! The Ghost! Count Nefaria!)

Post by Goldar »

Thanks for posting those scenes as it has been many, many years since I last read them!

Yes, I was citing the Handbook for specifics and I <think> (again, it has been years) that Nefaria was listed with greater speed than Simon by at least 1 level.

Nefaria was much faster than the old Whizzer, who could still run at about100 mph if memory serves, and Nefaria stops him and makes a statement about his own speed.

Nefaria also mentions Quicksilver, who was not part of the team at that time, and that "Quicksilver would seethe with rage" at how his own speed pales in comparison's to Nefaria's speed, and then Nefaria strikes down 3 Avengers instanty (Wanda, Cap & Panther?).
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Stane! Sons of Yinsen! The Ghost! Count Nefaria!)

Post by Ares »

I mean, Nefaria saying Quicksilver would be jealous of his speed is the equivalent of Nefaria saying his strength is limitless . . . and then he tries to break Captain America's shield and can't, showing that there are, in fact, limits to his strength. It'd be like Nefaria saying, "Even the mighty Hulk would be jealous of my might", which may or may not be true, but he's got nothing to base it on other than ego.

As for the Whizzer, Nefaria was definitely shown to be faster than him . . . but he was also an old, out of shape man with heart problems, so even against a speedster it isn't the best example. Nefaria, like many flying bricks, also was really inconsistent about using it, so it isn't exactly an auto-win power.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Stane! Sons of Yinsen! The Ghost! Count Nefaria!)

Post by Goldar »

Yeah, I think you may be right regarding Nefaria's statements, Ares. Thinking about it, Nefaria says Simon is the strongest mortal to ever walk the earth except for him (or something close to this, i cannot remember), but I am sure the Hulk would have had something to say about that, since Simon was "only" Cl 95 at that point.

Nefaria was prolly overwhelmed and awed with his new might and with his personality, would assume he was the best at everythinng. The Avengers had years of experience and their feats are well-documented. He is this new-comer who really did not know what he could do, but boasted he was better than all of the skilled Avengers. As you stated, he could not crumple Cap's shield.

Plus, he was an evil supervillain! Who would believe him??

But I stand by the fact that Count Nefaria had a great costume!!
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Stane! Sons of Yinsen! The Ghost! Count Nefaria!)

Post by Orbiter »

Nefaria's conflict with the new X-Men wasn't as arbitrary and out of the blue as it might have felt to a new reader at the time. He had a grudge against the original team from them beating him in X-Men 22-23.
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