Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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Ken
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Re: Streaky the Supercat

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:13 amYou can't just have Kal-El get a Kryptonian DOG to be a dog SUPER-HERO and fly around wearing a doggie CAPE- you gotta immediately add a freaking super-CAT and have it be Supergirl's Super-Pet Sidekick, too, lol. This is why everyone thought DC was for babies in the 1960s!
It isn't like there were pop culture police who came around to the publishers' offices and said "okay, you have to change the target demographic of your comic books". The target audience for comic books had basically been children and G.I.s from the 1930s well into the 1960s. They were something that most people outgrew. The fact that Marvel found an audience with high school and college kids was an unexpected surprise. And while DC would ultimately follow suit and try to court that same audience, it took time.

Superman was intended for primarily for children. Yes. Kids were DC's target demographic. Mostly boys, yes. But they wanted to sell to girls, too (that's why Supergirl, like Mary Marvel from a few decades earlier, exists). Hell, 1960, when Streaky was created, the Marvel Universe wasn't even an itch in Stan Lee's pants yet. Supergirl was just an American forerunner of Japan's magical girls.

Why the f**k to people assume that just because today super-hero comics are created for a tiny, niche, market of middle-aged men that this was always the case?
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Jabroniville
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Jor-El

Post by Jabroniville »

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JOR-EL
Created By:
Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster
First Appearance: Superman (Jan. 1939)
Role: Superman's Dad

-Naturally, Jor-El is sort of the "starting point" of the Superman mythos. His responsibility to the origin is clear- he realized that Krypton was going to explode, and built an experimental rocket to send his only child, Kal-El, to Earth to save the boy. He and his wife Lara die in the explosion of Krypton, leaving Superman an orphan, to be adopted by Earth parents. It's concise and brilliant, mixing tragedy with optimism, and is one of comics' greatest origin stories.

-Of course, various things have been added to it since. Initially named "Jor-L" (a name taken from Siegel & Shuster's earlier work about a future "ace sleuth"), he doesn't appear much in the early days, having been mentioned only in passing as a scientist and he didn't get much focus until a 1948 retelling of Superman's origin story. He gets a LOT of focus in the 1950s stuff I've read- it seems all the stories I saw featured someone popping in from Krypton, explaining their backstory as it relates to Jor-El, and then Superman has to deal with it. A lot of Kryptonian criminals (including a trio of them, pre-Zod; finally Dru-Zod and his army of goons are revealed as well), most of whom were trapped in the "Phantom Zone". It turns out that Jor-El was the head of the "Science Police" who dealt with criminals on Krypton. Jor-El thus cast a lot of crooks into this Zone, where they sat for decades able to only watch the outside world. Superman would carry out their sentences himself, releasing them when their sentences were up... and then have to deal with the ones who were unrepentant evil. Many enemies of Superman were thus initially enemies of Jor-El's, and carried a grudge over to the son.

-Of course, many of these stories packed exposition onto Jor-El, making him an investigator with lots of enemies. The establishment of Krypto the Super-Dog, Beppo the Super-Monkey and more added additional wrinkles to Superman's origin, as Jor-El made a SMALLER rocket first, sending Kal-El's PUPPY into outer space, where it got knocked off course. He thus made a better rocket for his son with his limited time remaining. Also the damn test-monkey hitched a ride on the rocket. He had a brother named Zor-El, whose daughter Kara became Supergirl. Also, a twin brother named Nim-El whom I've never heard of before.

-John Byrne's revamping of Superman in 1986 saw Jor-El be mostly kept, but now the "throwback" of being an emotional man on a cold, sterile, science-obsessed Krypton. Kal-El was now born from a "birthing matrix" for some reason, being "born" on Earth. Eventually, the original version of Jor-El & Krypton was reinstated for the early 2000s. Subsequent stuff by Geoff Johns and Richard Donner (who directed & wrote Marlon Brando in a famous rendition of the serious, mentory Jor-El in the movies) added in that Jor-El had shared his findings with Zod, but refused to engage in a coup and was instead forced to exile Zod and his agents, earning the general's enmity.
Shock
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Re: Jor-El

Post by Shock »

Jabroniville wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 8:01 pm

-Of course, many of these stories packed exposition onto Jor-El, making him an investigator with lots of enemies. The establishment of Krypto the Super-Dog, Beppo the Super-Monkey and more added additional wrinkles to Superman's origin, as Jor-El made a SMALLER rocket first, sending Kal-El's PUPPY into outer space, where it got knocked off course. He thus made a better rocket for his son with his limited time remaining. Also the damn test-monkey hitched a ride on the rocket.
You'd think given he had time to build TWO rockets, Jor-El could have found a way to save more than one person. just one of the many problems with ret-conning stuff like this.
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Ares
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Re: Jor-El

Post by Ares »

Shock wrote: Fri Dec 23, 2022 8:11 pm You'd think given he had time to build TWO rockets, Jor-El could have found a way to save more than one person. just one of the many problems with ret-conning stuff like this.
Yeah, while the original story is a classic, it was very much made during an era of "don't think about it too hard". These days, writers have to try and account for why such an advanced civilization didn't have the means to save more people.

Most versions have Kryptonians being some flavor of isolationist, which is the only way to explain why they didn't know about their yellow sunlight powers. If they were part of the larger galactic community, the first time they'd visit any planet that didn't have a red sun, suddenly they're living gods.

The Post-Crisis Superman writers had this somewhat convoluted explanation of Kryptonians being unable to leave Krypton due to being genetically modified by the Eradicator so that being outside Krypton's bio-sphere was toxic to them. Jor-El was only able to save Clark by doing extensive genetic modification to him via the Kryptonian Birthing Matrix that was part of Clark's ship.

The animate series had Brainiac convince the ruling council of Krypton that their was no danger until it was too late, thus Jor-El only had enough time to construct a small craft to save Clark.

The Zack Snyder film . . . nah, screw that movie.

I think my take would be that the process that was destroying Krypton had already converted the core of the planet to Kryptonite, and most of the planet was already dying of radiation sickness when the planet blew up. Even if they'd tried to leave, most of them would have died shortly anyway. Jor-El would have figured out a way to cure Kal-El of the poisoning, but the process only works on the very young who have had limited exposure. Thus Jor-El only sent Kal-El to Earth, because he and Lara were already dying. Maybe have Kara's family live in an area where there were high density minerals that lessened the radiation enough that the cure could work on Kara and allow her to be sent off as well.
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Jabroniville
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Jimmy Olsen

Post by Jabroniville »

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JIMMY OLSEN (aka Elastic Lad, Flamebird I)
Created By:
Bob Maxwell (radio), Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster (comics)
First Appearance: Action Comics #6 (Nov. 1938- anonymous cameo), The Adventures of Superman radio show (April 1940), Superman #13 (Nov. 1941)
Role: The Kid Sidekick, Superman's Pal
PL 3 (55)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 2 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 3 (+4)
Deception 4 (+7)
Expertise (Cameraman) 7 (+8)
Investigation 7 (+8)
Perception 7 (+8)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Stealth 3 (+5)
Vehicles 2 (+4)

Advantages:
None

Offense:
Unarmed +2 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +4 (DC 14), Parry +4 (DC 14), Toughness +1, Fortitude +3, Will +6

Complications:
Relationship (Superman)- Jimmy is Superman's best pal in the early days.
Relationship (Perry White)- Jimmy sees Perry as a kind of father figure, but enjoys bugging him by calling him "Chief".
Relationship (Lucy Lane)- Lucy was Jimmy's gal for much of the Silver Age.
Accident (Transformations)- Jimmy gets transformed A LOT. Mostly in the Silver Age, however.

Total: Abilities: 26 / Skills: 36--18 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 11 (55)

Superman's Pal- Jimmy Olsen:
-So Jimmy has a similar function in Superman books as Robin does in Bat-Books- that of the "Hero's Young Friend", which young fans are supposed to kind of imprint themselves upon. Because while Superman & Batman are too upstanding, unachievable, and adult, the young audience can see themselves more as Jimmy or Robin, who are fallible and nearly always victimized by the mean criminals. I mean, you can't be Superman or Batman... but you could be their FRIEND. In Jimmy's case, he had a distinctive appearance with his red hair and bow-tie, and debuted in the first couple years of Superman's existence, and soon developed a few traits of his own, like a "Signal Watch" that he could use to call Superman to the scene. And Jimmy was a huge, huge character for years, getting his own book a decade later and commanding a ton of sales in his own right. Alas, comics has grown far too distant from the era in which Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen could have been a thing.

-Jimmy debuted in the Superman radio program, like a lot of things we now consider intrinsic to the character- he debuted in 1940, but I guess retroactively some anonymous speaking guy in a 1938 comic is said to be him. The character debuted in the comics properly in 1941, giving Superman his own "Robin". A young office boy (later a photographer), Jimmy had a talent for getting into trouble superior to even Lois Lane, necessitating the intervention of the Man of Steel on a frequent basis. Jimmy was an immediate hit, featuring in not only his own book in 1954 (during a period where almost NO superheroes could find themselves published), but the various Supes-related titles. Lucy Lane, younger sister of Lois, was actually introduced as JIMMY'S love interest, with SPJO #36- "Imaginary Stories" often featured the two getting married in the future.

-And Jimmy Olsen was HUGE- at one point, he was the #4 best-selling comic book during points of the 1960s! A frequent occurrence in Jimmy's book was him being transformed or some other calamity happening- he's a "Turtle Boy" in one issue, a werewolf in others, grows a huge beard, switches minds with a gorilla, grew four extra arms, gets sent back in time, etc. Jimmy leads many young fans' "ideal lives", even getting his own in-universe fan club, and in 1958, Jimmy becomes "Elastic Lad" for the first time, drinking a serum and gaining stretchy powers. He was made an honorary member of the Legion of Super-Heroes, then traveled to the Bottle City of Kandor with Superman, where they became the superheroes Nightwing (Supes) & Flamebird (Jimmy), acting as vigilantes. In 1969, Jimmy was made a full reporter of the Daily Planet.

-In an unlikely debut, Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #134 would be the introduction of the NEW GODS, as Jack Kirby took over that book, as it was the only one without an artist and he didn't want to swipe anyone's job. However, the 1970s saw Jimmy become a bit passe- in 1974, the book was renamed The Superman Family, which now included cancelled books like Supergirl and Superman's Girl Friend, Lois Lane in anthology stories alongside Jimmy. Jimmy became an investigative TV reporter in this book, calling himself "Mr. Action". The series was finally cancelled in 1982, ending nearly thirty years of Jimmy stories. He still appeared in Superman books.

Post-Crisis Jimmy:
-Jimmy Olsen returns Post-Crisis along with most of Superman's supporting cast, this time put back into his role as a young boy at the Daily Planet- a "cub reporter". John Byrne took away the bowtie (which had long since been old-fashioned) and gave him modern clothes. The Signal Watch was again used (this time, a creation of Jimmy's, which kind of irked Superman a bit as it was a nuisance), but Jimmy was a much more minor character- transformations were rarer and typically just used to homage the Silver Age stuff (an "Elastic Lad" one-off). In the 1990s, Jimmy quit the Daily Planet and became a TV reporter- I remember reading an issue where he plans on revealing Superman's secret identity to the world, having narrowed it down between two men (a football player and Clark Kent)- after a talk with Superman about his revelation, he finally blows it off on the air, screaming about how "Superman is EVERYBODY!" all metaphorically. This causes him to lose his show- it's revealed at the end that he had guessed the wrong man, too. He returns to the Planet in later stories, sometimes as a reporter.

-In the 2000s, Jimmy investigated stuff during the Death of the New Gods story and gained super-powers for a time. A comedy series takes place in 2019, showing a lot of Silver Age stuff and in-jokes about comics history (Jimmy suggests to Batman holding a voting campaign to see if Robin lives or dies).

-There are, technically, at least 3-4 versions of Jimmy Olsen, like most Golden Age Superman characters. The Golden Age version was supplanted entirely by the Silver Age version, who got all the cool stuff. The Post-Crisis version is the one who aged and matured the most, but was mostly glossed over.

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ELASTIC LAD (Jimmy Olsen, aka Flamebird I)
Created By:
Bob Maxwell (radio), Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster (comics)
First Appearance: Action Comics #6 (Nov. 1938- anonymous cameo), The Adventures of Superman radio show (April 1940), Superman #13 (Nov. 1941)
Role: The Kid Sidekick, Superman's Pal
PL 5 (75)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 3 (+4)
Deception 4 (+7)
Expertise (Cameraman) 7 (+8)
Investigation 7 (+8)
Perception 7 (+8)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Stealth 3 (+5)
Vehicles 2 (+4)

Advantages:
Fast Grab, Improved Hold, Improved Trip

Powers:
"Elastic Body"
Elongation 5 [5]

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +1, Fortitude +3, Will +6

Complications:
Relationship (Superman)- Jimmy is Superman's best pal in the early days.
Relationship (Perry White)- Jimmy sees Perry as a kind of father figure, but enjoys bugging him by calling him "Chief".
Relationship (Lucy Lane)- Lucy was Jimmy's gal for much of the Silver Age.
Accident (Transformations)- Jimmy gets transformed A LOT. Mostly in the Silver Age, however.

Total: Abilities: 34 / Skills: 36--18 / Advantages: 3 / Powers: 5 / Defenses: 15 (75)

-As Elastic Lad, Jimmy is hardly a powerhouse, but can trip up bad guys and the added reach makes him a better fighter.
Jabroniville
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Perry White

Post by Jabroniville »

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PERRY WHITE
Created By:
George Putnam Ludlam (radio), Jerry Siegel & Wayne Boring (comics)
First Appearance: The Adventures of Superman radio show (Feb. 1940), Superman #7 (Nov. 1940)
Role: Newspaper Editor, Tough-But-Fair Boss
PL 2 (42)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 4 (+7)
Expertise (Editor) 7 (+9)
Investigation 7 (+11)
Perception 2 (+6)
Persuasion 2 (+5)

Advantages:
None

Offense:
Unarmed +2 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +2 (DC 12), Parry +2 (DC 12), Toughness +1, Fortitude +2, Will +6

Complications:
Responsibility (Journalistic Standards)- Perry has a high sense of standards for ethics in journalism.
Relationship (Alice White)- Perry & Alice have one deceased son (Jerry), and one adopted son (Keith).

Total: Abilities: 26 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 5 (42)

-Clark Kent & Lois Lane's boss, Perry White has been the Editor-in-Chief of the Daily Planet since his debut in the Superman radio program in 1940- he's typically been depicted as a tough but fair boss, tempermental ever since, though J. Jonah Jameson over in Spider-Man is twenty times the character he is, so he often gets left out. At least he has an iconic catchphrase- "Great Caesar's Ghost!". Perry White very quickly replaced the earlier character George Taylor, back when Clark & Lois worked at "The Daily Star". This version would actually be retconned in as the Earth-Two workplace of the Golden Age Superman, with the Planet being ignored- White is just a "co-reporter" and sometimes took the Editorial position when Taylor was absent.

-In the 1970s, Morgan Edge took over the Daily Planet, taking a lot of White's power- just before the Crisis hits, it's implied that White is beginning to succumb to Alzheimer's disease. John Byrne promptly puts Perry in the EIC position at the Planet when he takes over Post-Crisis, and he takes care to give White an origin story- he grew up in Suicide Slum, and his father is missing in action at war. He went to school with Lex Luthor and is angry at him for nearly wrecking the Planet and White's writing career- much later, Perry learns that his son Jerry is actually the biological son of Luthor (who seduced Alice when Perry was thought dead). Jerry is later killed by gunshot, and the Whites adopt a black boy named Keith, and then Luthor buys and tries to dismantle the paper- Bruce Wayne saves the day this time. White's paper is one of very few to openly criticize Luthor when he becomes President of the United States. It's been suggested from time to time that White has figured out that Clark Kent is Superman- Batman as much as surmises that White is too good an investigator to not have figured it out.

-Perry White is a good investigator, but a non-combatant.
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Davies
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Krypto! Beppo, Streaky & Comet! Jimmy Olsen!)

Post by Davies »

Pre-Crisis, he also had access to a set of cigars that could grant wishes.

No, I'm not making that up. Elliot S! Maggin wrote some great stuff, but boy howdy could he come up with some weird ones, too.
"I'm sorry. I love you. I'm not sorry I love you."
Harnos
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Re: Gladiator

Post by Harnos »

Jabroniville wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:10 am Image

GLADIATOR (Kallark)
Created By:
Chris Claremont & Dave Cockrum
First Appearance: The Uncanny X-Men #107 (Oct. 1977)
Race: Strontian
Role: Supermanalogue
Legionnaire Basis: Superboy
Group Affiliations: The Shi'ar Imperial Guard, The Annihilators
PL 15 (269)
STRENGTH
17 STAMINA 17 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Close Attack (Unarmed) 2 (+12)
Deception 2 (+4)
Expertise (Space Hero) 9 (+10)
Insight 3 (+5)
Intimidation 10 (+12)
Investigation 3 (+5)
Perception 4 (+6)
Technology 4 (+5)
Vehicles 1 (+5)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Benefit 2 (Imperial Guard Praetor), Close Attack, Daze (Intimidation), Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Great Endurance, Fast Grab, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 2, Improved Grab, Improved Hold, Last Stand, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Startle, Ultimate Strength Check, Withstand Damage

Powers:
Immunity 11 (Aging, Life Support) [11]
Power-Lifting 4 (50,000 tons) [4]
Impervious Toughness 9 [9]
Flight 14 (32,000 mph) (Feats: Dynamic) (29) -- [31]
  • Dynamic AE: Quickness 10 (Feats: Dynamic) (11)
Movement 1 (Space Travel 1) [2]
"Super-Vision" Senses 6 (Microvision 2- Cellular Sized, Vision Penetrates Concealment) [6]

"Heat Vision" Blast 14 (Feats: Penetrating 7) (35) -- [39]
  • AE: "Groundstrike" Affliction 13 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Ground) Linked to Damage 13 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (17)
  • AE: "Shockwave" Damage 12 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Both Grounded) (12)
  • AE: "Super-Breath" Move Object 8 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone) (16)
  • AE: "Freeze Breath" Snare 11 (33)
Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+17 Damage, DC 32)
Shockwave +12 Area (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Heat Vision +10 (+14 Ranged Damage, DC 29)
Freeze Breath +10 (+11 Ranged Affliction, DC 21)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +17, Fortitude +17, Will +9

Complications:
Responsibility (The Shi'ar Imperial Guard)
Responsibility (Duty)- Gladiator is so obsessed with duty that he willingly murdered nearly his entire race on the orders of the Emperor. He will immediately follow every single order the Emperors make, no matter how crazy they are.
Relationship (Lilandra)- Gladiator eventually fell in love with the Majestrix, and one of his only instances of disobeying the Emperor came when she was threatened. He even blew up Smasher's head because of it.
Power Loss (All Powers)- Strontians will lose all power if their convictions or confidence fails. Gladiator once had his ass whupped by Cannonball because of this.
Weakness (Rare Radiation Type)

Total: Abilities: 110 / Skills: 38--19 / Advantages: 24 / Powers: 102 / Defenses: 14 (269)

-Gladiator is obviously the most famous and powerful of the Imperial Guard. Basically an homage of Superman, he's Marvel's most famous Supermanalogue, having been given nearly all of his powers. He's been characterized as a flawed Yes-Man, basically following whatever the Emperor demanded (even if it meant the extermination of his own, powerful race), whether they were crazy, inbred, or what have you. This is kinda the flaw with Marvel's Space Scene, as nearly every empire is ruled by monarchs who tend to go nuts, which Earth's own history has proven is the least effective form of government. In any case, his power level has made Gladiator famous, especially as fans got more and more "Power-focused" over time, demanding bigger & better feats from guys. Funny, in that Marvel used to PRIDE ITSELF on having a universe of more down-to-earth, less-powerful heroes more often than not (Spidey, the FF, most Avengers), and yet now seems to have a higher power-balance than DC does.

-Gladiator's been thrown in as the "major opponent" of a lot of powerful heroes because of his aura of respect, especially for Thor, who's defeated him a couple times so far (Odinson once, Masterson once). Even so, he's badass enough that nearly every encounter featuring him has at least one "Holy Crap!" moment, with the heroes basing their entire strategy off of defeating the Strontian powerhouse.

-Gladiator stats up like alot of my Supermanalogues, but costs much more than most of them, given his Life Support, frequently-shown Super Speed and ultra-powerful Blast (capable of decapitating teammate Smasher with ease). You could call him anywhere from PL 13 to PL 15, but I went with PL 15 with a few limitations (PL 14.5 melee, PL 13-13.5 defensively), mainly because he's lost to Thor a few times when the big guy fully let loose, and I've rendered Thor as a PL 14. Gladiator is just a smidge beyond him so Thor can still tangle, but has to pull out all the stops to do it. This makes him more powerful than any single hero short of the Silver Surfer.

-His "Loses Confidence" weakness comes up from time to time (it NEVER happens when facing opponents of great might, but guys like Gambit and Cannonball have knocked him on his ass because of it), so it's there as an uncommon thing. To set it off, you basically have to do something REALLY unlikely (like take his mightiest blow), or just get a telepath to directly screw with him. Neither is particularly easy.
May I ask your reason to build Gladiator at PL 15, more powerful than Thor, especially since you said Kallark was beaten by him? I am reading few "Gladiator vs..." forum topics for my build, but I couldn't see him clearly outshining Thor or Hulk. Both seem to have defeated him in various stories. And honestly, most of those topics are full of meaningless answers and s.. talk. :lol: I guess I will place him between Thor and Hyperion, since he defeated the latter, but I'm not sure which Hyperion that was either. :D I am a little bit confused. :D
Jabroniville
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Gladiator

Post by Jabroniville »

Harnos wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:09 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:10 am
Weakness (Rare Radiation Type)

Total: Abilities: 110 / Skills: 38--19 / Advantages: 24 / Powers: 102 / Defenses: 14 (269


-Gladiator stats up like alot of my Supermanalogues, but costs much more than most of them, given his Life Support, frequently-shown Super Speed and ultra-powerful Blast (capable of decapitating teammate Smasher with ease). You could call him anywhere from PL 13 to PL 15, but I went with PL 15 with a few limitations (PL 14.5 melee, PL 13-13.5 defensively), mainly because he's lost to Thor a few times when the big guy fully let loose, and I've rendered Thor as a PL 14. Gladiator is just a smidge beyond him so Thor can still tangle, but has to pull out all the stops to do it. This makes him more powerful than any single hero short of the Silver Surfer.
May I ask your reason to build Gladiator at PL 15, more powerful than Thor, especially since you said Kallark was beaten by him? I am reading few "Gladiator vs..." forum topics for my build, but I couldn't see him clearly outshining Thor or Hulk. Both seem to have defeated him in various stories. And honestly, most of those topics are full of meaningless answers and s.. talk. :lol: I guess I will place him between Thor and Hyperion, since he defeated the latter, but I'm not sure which Hyperion that was either. :D I am a little bit confused. :D
Well he’s only 0.5 above Thor, lol. And his defended are poorer. The thing with Gladiator is that he’s had a power upgrade circa Annihilation, where he was flying through planets with ease and junk. The Thor battles are still always treated as these huge, unlikely victories, too.
Harnos
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Re: Gladiator

Post by Harnos »

Jabroniville wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 7:15 pm
Harnos wrote: Sat Dec 24, 2022 1:09 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:10 am
Weakness (Rare Radiation Type)

Total: Abilities: 110 / Skills: 38--19 / Advantages: 24 / Powers: 102 / Defenses: 14 (269


-Gladiator stats up like alot of my Supermanalogues, but costs much more than most of them, given his Life Support, frequently-shown Super Speed and ultra-powerful Blast (capable of decapitating teammate Smasher with ease). You could call him anywhere from PL 13 to PL 15, but I went with PL 15 with a few limitations (PL 14.5 melee, PL 13-13.5 defensively), mainly because he's lost to Thor a few times when the big guy fully let loose, and I've rendered Thor as a PL 14. Gladiator is just a smidge beyond him so Thor can still tangle, but has to pull out all the stops to do it. This makes him more powerful than any single hero short of the Silver Surfer.
May I ask your reason to build Gladiator at PL 15, more powerful than Thor, especially since you said Kallark was beaten by him? I am reading few "Gladiator vs..." forum topics for my build, but I couldn't see him clearly outshining Thor or Hulk. Both seem to have defeated him in various stories. And honestly, most of those topics are full of meaningless answers and s.. talk. :lol: I guess I will place him between Thor and Hyperion, since he defeated the latter, but I'm not sure which Hyperion that was either. :D I am a little bit confused. :D
Well he’s only 0.5 above Thor, lol. And his defended are poorer. The thing with Gladiator is that he’s had a power upgrade circa Annihilation, where he was flying through planets with ease and junk. The Thor battles are still always treated as these huge, unlikely victories, too.
That last part explains it well enough, thank you.

This is gonna be a weird dialogue but your Gladiator has better dodge-touhness total than your PL 14 Thor and same parry/toughness total. Are there another versions of these builds I missed or are they to be updated? Thor is better on fort-will though.

Jabroniville wrote: Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:55 am Image
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THOR, GOD OF THUNDER (Thor Odinson, Dr. Donald Blake)
Created By:
Stan Lee, Larry Lieber & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Journey Into Mystery #83 (Aug. 1962)
Role: God, Epic Hero, Supermanalogue (kinda), Power-Cap Definer, Flying Brick
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Asgardian Pantheon, The Thor Corps., The God Squad
Avengers Grade: A-Level
PL 14 (262)
STRENGTH
16 STAMINA 14 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+11)
Close Combat (Hammer) 1 (+10)
Expertise (Aesir) 8 (+10)
Expertise (History) 2 (+4)
Insight 6 (+9)
Intimidation 11 (+15)
Perception 3 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Hammer) 4 (+12)
Ranged Combat (Lightning) 4 (+12)
Treatment 7 (+9)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Attractive, Benefit (Status- God), Daze (Intimidation), Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Hammer) 4, Improved Smash, Interpose, Last Stand (Ignores Damage for 1 Round w/ HP Spent), Power Attack, Ranged Attack 8, Startle, Takedown 2, Ultimate Effort (Strength), Withstand Damage (Trade Defense for Toughness)

Powers:
"Immortal Aesir"
Power Lifting 5 (50,000 tons) [5]
Protection 1 (Extras: Impervious 13) [14]
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrowth) [3]
Immunity 10 (Aging, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Disease, Fatigue Effects) [10]
Immunity 4 (Drowning & Suffocation, Poison, Pressure) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]

"Mjolnir" (Flaws: Easily Removable) (Feats: Indestructible, Restricted 2- Those Worthy) [53]
"Weather Control" Environment 6 (1,000 feet) (Impede Movement, Visibility) (12)
Movement 1 (Space Travel) (2)
Flight 1 (4 mph) (2)

"Lightning Bolt/Hammer Line" Damage 14 (Extras: Area-Line 120ft. +3) (56) -- (66)
  • AE: "Lightning" Blast 14 (Feats: Improved Critical 2, Indirect- From Above, Penetrating 6) (37)
  • AE: "Hammer Smash" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (8)
  • AE: "Hammer Throw" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (Extras: Ranged 17) (24)
  • AE: "Hammer Spin" Strength-Damage +2 (Extras: Area- 15ft. Burst +18/+1/2) (29)
  • AE: "Obscure Visuals" Concealment 2 (Visuals) (Extars: Attack, Area- 30ft. Burst) (8)
  • AE: "Air Control" Move Object 16 (Flaws: Concentration) (16)
  • AE: "Groundstrike" Affliction 13 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 13 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (17)
  • AE: Movement 3 (Dimensional Movement 3) (Extras: Portal +2) (12)
  • AE: Deflect 12 (12)
  • AE: Flight 11 (8,000 mph) (24)
-- (82 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+16 Damage, DC 31)
Hammer Smash +10 (+18 Damage, DC 33)
Hammer Throw +12 (+17 Ranged Damage, DC 32)
Lightning Bolt +14 Area (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Lightning +12 (+14 Ranged Damage, DC 29)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +15 (+5 Impervious), Fortitude +15, Will +13

Complications:
Power Loss (All Powers)- If removed from Mjolnir for more than one minute, Thor will transform back into human form (if he has one). This sometimes vanishes as a limitation based on the era.
Responsibility (Honour)- Thor is not one to lie nor cheat.
Enemy (Loki, Ulik, Jormungandr, Hela)
Rivalry (The Incredible Hulk)- As two of the strongest beings alive, they naturally dislike each other and come to blows.
Rivalry (Hercules)- The Son of Zeus is Thor's greatest heroic rival, though they often see eye-to-eye as well. Hercules bristles against the greater fame of Herc.
Responsibility (Asgard, Odin)- Thor must do his father's bidding, or that of Odin's replacements. This can be bad, because Odin is a royal (literally) dick.

Total: Abilities: 100 / Skills: 48--24 / Advantages: 30 / Powers: 87 / Defenses: 21 (262)

Thor in Mythology: Thor in the myths is a simple-minded, red-haired buffoon- aggressive, stupid and easily-angered. That said, his might is legendary- his attempts to strike an illusory Jotun resulted in three massive valleys in Northern Europe, his strength was such that he could nearly lift the Midgard Serpent (disguised as a cat), and he was temporarily able to grapple with Old Age itself. Thor was often paired up with Loki in "travelling tales" that explained certain aspects of the world, but while Loki was clever, Thor was simplistic. Marvel's version adds Flight, intelligence, blonde hair, nobility, thoughtfulness and more- it's essentially an entirely different character.

-I thought long and hard (huh-huh, I said...) about where to place Thor on the PL scale- he's EXTREMELY strong and tough compared to most Marvel heroes, and he's not a bad fighter either. I like lower PLs in general, but THIS guy? Thor is a PL 14 in my book, and that's a pretty big shift- I used to put EVERYONE within a PL 12 boundary if I could help it. But even then I admitted that Thor was actually higher-level- I just wanted him to fit more playability-wise with his team. Now? It's 3rd edition so I don't have to care so much. And since Thing & She-Hulk types are +13 damage unarmed, it only makes sense that Thor is a few notches higher (+16 normally, and Mjolnir knocks him up even higher- there's no easy way to fit that into PL 12 without making him very, very inaccurate. Thor is quite a good fighter as well, but uses Accurate Attack to improve his attack bonus rather than have a big number, as +11 seems more than good enough. He's SUPPOSED to be a godlike, super-experienced fighter, but I have never IN MY ENTIRE LIFE seen him use elite fighting tactics beyond "hit and then hit harder". He probably COULD dodge and weave, but usually is just a straight-on fighter, and I'd put him at a level with good fighters, but not elites (guys like Spidey, Kingpin & Black Knight are more accurate in general).

-At PL 14, Thor is a ways above even Iron Man (2 PLs basically make it REALLY unlikely Iron Man would ever win in a fair fight, which is as it should be), and well above most Marvel villains. His Silver Age self was more PL 11-12, and so guys like Mister Hyde (PL 10) and The Wrecker (PL 11) were more dangerous enemies. Nowadays, Thor makes mincemeat out of most guys on that level. Mjolnir costs a pretty penny, for good reason. It's a powerful Strike, has Area Effects (a Burst for his "whirl it around me" trick, with a half-price +0.5 Extra, a Line, and, a ranged Blast (Lightning), a weather controller (outside the Blast Array, so he can do them simultaneously), AND it can throw him across dimensions. The Belt of Strength is an occasional Boost to Strength that renders him supremely tired once he takes it off, and goes unstatted since it's a rare deal (probably boosts him by 2-4 ranks in Strength & Toughness). Thor's Hammer is basically a Dr. Strange-level plot device, and he can spend a Hero Point to travel through time (an ability he later "gave up"), use the God Force, etc., to beat the new Big Bad.

-Note Thor's defenses, which place him as a "mere" PL 12/12.5. That's deliberate, as most Super-Heavyweights lack defensive capability, usually just eating whatever attacks come their way. I can't possibly justify a Thor with more than +11 to Parry, and certainly +10 to Dodge is enough- he's never struck me as particularly light on his feet, and he's never seemed as durable as he is strong or damage-heavy. After all, it's virtually his stock in trade to pull out the Last Stand Advantage (ignore all accumulated damage for a turn) or eat something with Withstand Damage. Getting out of the way is for sissies, and Thor is a MAN'S MAN, dammit!

ImageImage

THOR, GOD OF THUNDER (Thor Odinson, Dr. Donald Blake)- Bronze Age
Created By:
Stan Lee, Larry Lieber & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Journey Into Mystery #83 (Aug. 1962)
Role: God, Epic Hero, Supermanalogue (kinda), Power-Cap Definer, Flying Brick
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Asgardian Pantheon, The Thor Corps., The God Squad
Avengers Grade: A-Level
PL 13 (244)
STRENGTH
15 STAMINA 14 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+11)
Expertise (Aesir) 8 (+10)
Expertise (History) 2 (+4)
Insight 6 (+9)
Intimidation 10 (+14)
Perception 3 (+6)
Ranged Combat (Hammer) 4 (+10)
Ranged Combat (Lightning) 4 (+10)
Treatment 7 (+9)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Attractive, Benefit (Status- God), Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Hammer) 2, Interpose, Last Stand, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Startle, Takedown 2, Ultimate Effort (Strength), Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Immortal Aesir"
Power Lifting 5 (50,000 tons) [5]
Impervious Toughness 11 [11]
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrowth) [3]
Immunity 10 (Aging, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Disease, Fatigue Effects) [10]
Immunity 4 (Drowning & Suffocation, Poison, Pressure) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]

"Mjolnir" (Flaws: Easily Removable) (Feats: Indestructible, Restricted 2- Those Worthy) [49]
"Weather Control" Environment 6 (1,000 feet) (Impede Movement, Visibility) (12)
Movement 1 (Space Travel) (2)
Flight 1 (4 mph) (2)

"Lightning Bolt/Hammer Line" Damage 13 (Extras: Area-Line 120ft. +3) (51) -- (60)
  • AE: "Lightning" Blast 14 (Feats: Improved Critical 2, Indirect- From Above, Penetrating 6) (37)
  • AE: "Hammer Smash" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (8)
  • AE: "Hammer Throw" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Penetrating 6) Extras: Ranged 16) (23)
  • AE: "Hammer Spin" Strength-Damage +2 (Extras: Area- 15ft. Burst +16/+1/2) (29)
  • AE: "Air Control" Move Object 16 (Flaws: Concentration) (16)
  • AE: "Groundstrike" Affliction 13 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 13 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (17)
  • AE: Movement 3 (Dimensional Movement 3) (Extras: Portal +2) (12)
  • AE: Deflect 12 (12)
  • AE: Flight 11 (8,000 mph) (22)
-- (76 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+15 Damage, DC 30)
Hammer Smash +9 (+17 Damage, DC 32)
Hammer Throw +10 (+16 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Lightning Bolt +13 Area (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Lightning +10 (+14 Ranged Damage, DC 29)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +13 (+14 Belt, +6 Impervious), Fortitude +14, Will +12

Complications:
Power Loss (All Powers)- If removed from Mjolnir for more than one minute, Thor will transform back into human form (if he has one).
Responsibility (Honour)- Thor is not one to lie nor cheat.
Enemy (Loki, Ulik)
Rivalry (The Incredible Hulk)- As two of the strongest beings alive, they naturally dislike each other and come to blows.
Responsibility (Asgard, Odin)- Thor must do his father's bidding, or that of Odin's replacements. This can be bad, because Odin is a royal (literally) dick.

Total: Abilities: 98 / Skills: 46--23 / Advantages: 24 / Powers: 76 / Defenses: 19 (244)

-Here's a weaker, PL 13 Thor, that fits a lot of '80s & '90s adventures before Thor got REALLY elite. It can also fit if you want him closer to the rest of the team. Y'know, I actually think I like this version more, as he's not quite as excessively powerful, but he doesn't really match modern Thor as much. Even in this "lesser" form, Thor is a bit beyond Iron Man, and a league ahead of Spider-Man, Ms. Marvel, The Thing or other PL 11 superstars. I think this kinda fits the Walt Simonson classic Thor run of the '80s quite well, since Thor was elite, but was still regularly challenged by people.


Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +15 (+5 Impervious), Fortitude +15, Will +13
Jabroniville
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Steve Lombard

Post by Jabroniville »

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For several years after Steve Lombard's debut, he appeared in nearly every published Superman story. Action Comics writer Martin Pasko later attempted to explain the character's popularity:
"... Lombard is one of the few examples of a character that all of us Superman scripters at that time wrote in more or less the same way - as opposed to, say, the way Lana Lang seemed to be a totally different character when she'd show up in Action on occasion. I think that's because Lombard was one of the most sharply drawn and purposefully designed (though not particularly complex) characters I've ever handled - the most clearly communicated idea I've ever heard from an editor and the writer who co-created it: the jock doofus unwittingly trying to bust Superman's cajónes. The audience waits for it, knowing that a hotfoot with a match won't trump a hotfoot from heat vision, or whatever. And I gather the other Superman writers thought so, too. That's why Lombard became, for me, at least, one of the best examples of what, in sitcoms, we call the 'run-through character'. That's certainly what Ted Baxter was on TV: the character you knew you could 'run through' a scene and get laughs just from his showing up. ... The audience starts laughing when they show up because they're laughing at what they're imagining is gonna happen. They're 'waiting for it".
-per Wikipedia.


STEVE LOMBARD
Created By:
Cary Bates & Curt Swan
First Appearance: Superman #264 (June 1973)
Role: Office Antagonist, Office Prankster, Jock

-Reading the above, I was a bit stunned, because I have literally never heard of Steve Lombard in my entire life, yet he was at one point in nearly every Superman-related issue, lol. The idea being that he was a Daily Planet sportswriter and jock that was a lunkhead who'd try to bust the balls of SUPERMAN of all people. He was created by Cary Bates to be a workplace adversary to Kent, drawing inspiration from the famous Ted Baxter of The Mary Tyler Moore Show- a "Know-Nothing Know-It-All" who imagines himself as far superior than he actually is. Joe Namath was the physical basis for the character.

-Lombard debuts as a star quarterback for the Metropolis Meteors, but saves a baby falling from a building the day before the Super Bowl, destroying his already-injured knees. Radiation treatments to him create a being of living energy that wins the Super Bowl- Steve takes credit for its performance until it goes mad and Superman has to defeat it. Steve retires from football, and is hired by Morgan Edge to be the sportscaster at Galaxy Broadcasting, making him a coworker of Clark Kent, then a news anchor. Lombard, brash & arrogant, immediately starts pranking "Clarkie", who counters with the subtle use of his powers. However, Lombard considers Clark one of his few "real friends", since Clark takes the behavior in stride and doesn't bear a grudge. Steve becomes such a fixture in the books (with a recurring personality, unlike Lana Lang, as Martin Pasko indicates, who was always sporting a different manner), so much so that we are introduced to his doctor brother, a nephew, and an aunt who's a mystery novelist.

-120 issues after he debuted, Steve was written out of the comics by his creator, Cary Bates. Lombard is finally fired by Edge after falling out of favor with the viewers- he gets a heroic turn at last, though, as he is attacked by a former college roommate who wants revenge after years of Steve's pranks. Steve ensures that Clark is safe before returning to confront his enemy, and is naturally then saved by Superman. This was largely the end of Steve until Post-Crisis, where he doesn't show up until 1990 as a news anchor. In 2008, he's a Daily Planet staffer again- his deal now is that he can't figure out why Lois Lane won't throw herself at him. A few issues do indicate that Steve is quite brave, often getting heroic turns in spite of being a doofus. But he largely hasn't mattered since his long run in the 1970s- I guess they just got tired of him?
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Davies
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Krypto! Beppo, Streaky & Comet! Jimmy Olsen!)

Post by Davies »

The aunt, Kaye Daye, was a minor supporting character from Batman in the 60s.
"I'm sorry. I love you. I'm not sorry I love you."
greycrusader
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Krypto! Beppo, Streaky & Comet! Jimmy Olsen!)

Post by greycrusader »

The problem with Lombard (that likely led to him being written out) was being a “run-through” character who couldn’t be given any further development without making him redundant. He was given a couple positive qualities, being physically brave and having some loyalty to his coworkers, but basically once the joke got old, Lombard was finished.

All my best.
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Ron Troupe

Post by Jabroniville »

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RON TROUPE
Created By:
Jerry Ordway & Tom Grummett
First Appearance: The Adventures of Superman #480 (July 1991)
Role: The Office Straight-Man

-The bespectacled, serious Ron Troupe was a "straight man" added to the Daily Planet offices in 1991. Level-headed and serious, he's a bit of a bland character, typical of a lot of black characters introduced around this time (who were meant to add diversity, but typically didn't have many character flaws so they'd not "offend anyone"). He took on the racist super-villain Bloodsport II, and ended up marrying Lucy Lane and having a son. This wasn't really explored much later on, and in the Post-New 52 era, their relationship was up in the air.
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Morgan Edge

Post by Jabroniville »

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MORGAN EDGE (Morris Edelstein)
Created By:
Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen #133 (Oct. 1970)
Role: Evil Media Mogul

-One of Jack Kirby's first original DC characters, Morgan Edge is an antagonistic Media Mogul (big news ever since the days of William Randolph Hearst), one who draws conflict by doing things like buying the Daily Planet. Kirby based him physically off of actor Kevin McCarthy, and personality-wise off of James T. Avery, one-time President of CBS, who'd made Gilligan's Island and The Beverly Hillbillies and led CBS to dominate the market... but alienated every single person under him by being a GIGANTIC asshole- he was fired at the peak of his power, then became a notorious cost-cutter elsewhere. Mark Evanier, Kirby's assistant, said that Jack "wanted to explore the theme of organized crime gaining a foothold in corporate America - particularly a giant media conglomerate. Given the shady background of the company that acquired Warner Bros. and DC, it was something of an inside joke." However, DC editorial liked the character so much they convinced Jack to not have him revealed to be evil and get arrested, and instead kept the character going as a recurring "Greedy Boss" character.

-So Morgan here was the president of the Galaxy Broadcasting System, owner of WGBS, and thus the boss of Clark Kent. A stereotypical capitalist, he was a contrast to the more folksy, down to Earth Perry White, but was occasionally good-hearted and treated his staff well. This was the impetus to make Clark & co. TV anchors, "modernizing" them a bit. This brought Lana Lang on-board as Clark's co-anchor and gave us Steve Lombard, a workplace rival for Clark. Kirby's intention to have him in charge of Intergang was changed to an Edge impostor, and he was later revealed to have been born to poor Jewish parents and changed his name.

-Post-Crisis, Edge was kept on, and reimagined- he no longer had ties to the Planet, nor Clark, and now WAS connected to Intergang! Clark Kent & Cat Grant worked a dangerous undercover case to expose him, and Edge was arrested. After his release, he sponsored the "Superman Revenge Squad". The 2000s saw him used as an evil media pundit, giving General Sam Lane (Lois's father) a platform to espouse anti-Kryptonian rhetoric during the "New Krypton" thing. He takes a more "annoying" than evil role in the "New 52" stuff, and was now black.

-Morgan Edge ultimately ends up as a kind of weird name- a big part of some 1970s stuff and Clark's actual BOSS for years, but then kinda bounced around, even after becoming evil (since of course being a villain means you often get punished and thus written out... after all, Superman already HAD a recurring wealthy, non-powered menace).
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