Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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Jack of Spades
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Jimmy Olsen! Daily Planet! Lois Lane!)

Post by Jack of Spades »

I think you may be selling Lois' combat skills a little short; Sam Lane's girl has shown herself able to stand up to soldiers and thugs on a fairly even basis with her karate skills, and she knows which end of a gun the bang comes from. She's not a superhero, but I'd put her at PL4-5 unarmed.
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greycrusader
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Jimmy Olsen! Daily Planet! Lois Lane!)

Post by greycrusader »

Like Jimmy Olsen, the characterization and types of stories Lois Lane features in varies TREMENDOUSLY over the years. Golden Age Lois is at times openly hateful and contemptuous of Clark Kent, but in spite of her damsel-in-distress routine, she's a daring and keen reporter; Silver Age Lois Lane is often downright unlikeable, obsessed with Superman (and with revealing his secret identity), fickle, flighty, jealous, and involved in often ridiculous schemed and misadventures (many engineered by Superman to "teach her a lesson"), though she occasionally behaves heroically or comes up with a clever plan; by the Bronze Age, she's more physically capable, less jealous and clingy, generally portrayed with more maturity, though still prone to getting in over her head. The modern version is likely the brightest and most emotionally healthy Lois, though Byrne's initial portrayal seemed rather bad-tempered and quarrelsome, along with being strong-willed.

Then again, her depiction is positively stable compared to that of Lana Lang...

All my best.
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Re: Apollo

Post by Jabroniville »

Harnos wrote: Mon Dec 26, 2022 11:07 pm Nice build. Did you power him up? I remember him as a PL 12 or 13 in your topic. Also in the first issue he and Midnighter were seen, they were naked in an abandoned building. I can't remember this being a plot twist. I must add there is a small mistake in lifting capacity if you are not using house rules. Str 17 + power-lifting 4 lifts 50 kilotons, not 200.
I don't think so? I think he's always been top-tier in power because he was so clearly set up in that universe as a major powerhouse.

I probably just used a past Superman build as a template and didn't change the strength total. I actually really hate building Superman-type guys.
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Re: Space-Boy

Post by Jabroniville »

Okay I now have actual time to read replies and go over them in more detail:
Davies wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:52 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 4:48 pm
I demand you edit the DC fandom pages about all Silver Age one offs. None of this appears anywhere I can see.
Okay. Christmas appears to be cancelled for me, so I'll have plenty of time to do that.

EDIT: Edited pages for both stories.
Boo to the cancellation of Christmas!
JackofSpades wrote:I think you may be selling Lois' combat skills a little short; Sam Lane's girl has shown herself able to stand up to soldiers and thugs on a fairly even basis with her karate skills, and she knows which end of a gun the bang comes from. She's not a superhero, but I'd put her at PL4-5 unarmed.
I don't think I've ever read a comic where she's fought anybody. What has she actually done, specifically?
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Jimmy Olsen! Daily Planet! Lois Lane!)

Post by greycrusader »

The Bronze Age version often showed martial arts skill, having the equivalent of a black belt in "Klukor", an "advanced" Kandorian martial art (yes, DC was still a bit sillier than Marvel in that era), while Modern Age Lois Lane sometimes evidences skills one might expect of the daughter of a military family. Again, this hasn't exactly been consistent. But Lois at least changes about as slowly as Superman himself in characterization, whereas Lana, Lucy Lane, and (since the mid-80s) Supergirl can be wildly different in personality and background whenever there's a change in editorial or writers.

The whole Gladiator thing...with him, the Sentry, and Hyperion, it really does seem as if Marvel envies DC for their flagship character; Hyperion started off as a rather good-natured swipe, along with the rest of the Squadron Sinister (with DC doing the same over in the JLA books, just much worse and less memorable), then we got a parallel Earth version of him who was an Eternal, and one who actually came from the Micro-Verse, the evil King Hyperion who was an actual alien, the Hyperion from the Earth X alternate future world, the other evil Hyperion from the last Secret Wars, the zombie-clone, the nuclear-powered guy from Hickman's Avengers' run, the Mephisto-created version...and the power levels are all over the map! Does he get trounced by the Hulk or Thor after giving them a decent scrap, or can he straight-up murder every top-tier hero on Earth? Likewise, Gladiator started out as a guy who got knocked out by Cyclops' full-strength blast and had to duke it out with Colossus for a full page before putting Peter Rasputin down (and this was mid-80s Colossus, before he leveled-up), then Byrne had him trouncing the whole Fantastic Four with ease (though he couldn't break Captain America's shield), and the power-geeking with him REALLY began, having him tear through planets, push through black holes, defeat whole armadas of starships, and otherwise be basically invincible...except when he loses to Thor, the Hulk, Cannonball...

And the whole point of the original Sentry mini-series was that the Silver Age Superman DOESN"T WORK IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE! Plus, he straight-up sucks.

Ah, well. All my best.
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Sam Lane

Post by Jabroniville »

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SAM LANE
Created By:
Robert Bernstein & Kurt Schaffenberger
First Appearance: Superman's Girl Friend, Lois Lane #13 (Nov. 1959)
Role: Lois Lane’s Father, The Rival (to Superman)
Group Affiliations: The U.S. Army
PL 8 (74)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 4 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 5 (+8)
Expertise (Military) 10 (+12)
Insight 3 (+5)
Intimidation 3 (+6)
Investigation 3 (+5)
Perception 5 (+7)
Technology 4 (+6)
Vehicles 3 (+5)

Advantages:
Benefit 2 (General), Equipment 3 (Guns), Improved Critical (Guns), Ranged Attack 8

Offense:
Unarmed +4 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Guns +10 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +4 (DC 14), Toughness +3, Fortitude +3, Will +6

Complications:
Enemy (Superman)
Responsibility (The U.S. Army)
Relationship (Lois & Lucy- Daughters)- Sam, a hard-bitten military man, kind of expected sons.

Total: Abilities: 36 / Skills: 36--18 / Advantages: 14 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 6 (74)

-The father of Lois Lane, Sam Lane was a very minor character throughout most of Super-History, but in the late '90s suddenly became this important character... mostly be being a "Thunderbolt Ross" type of guy. He was made a military man in the Post-Crisis continuity- outspoken and awkward with his daughter- having wanted and expected boys, he didn't quite know how to handle his girls, and raised them as surrogate sons, more or less. That old cliche. When Lois got engaged to Clark, Sam was a bit disapproving of his wimpy, mild-mannered future son-in-law. Sam was made Secretary of Defense by President Lex Luthor, one of many ways the Superman books turned the screws on Superman during that story-arc. However, he was one of the big cast members killed during The Imperiex War, sacrificing his life by detonating the nuclear engine of his tank, cracking its shell enough to let Black Lightning destroy it from within. One later issue features his ghost appearing to Lois while she's trapped in a car, letting them air out their unresolve issues- it's implied he found a measure of peace.

-A bit later, however, Sam turns up alive, and helps his other daughter Lucy become "Superwoman" in an arc that sees the two of them become outright villains, him an Anti-Kryptonian agent during the "Kandor" arc. He even arrests Lois and suggests he's only lenient with her due to their familial relationship, and threatens her not to expose certain stories, arranges for a disaster that kills thousands of Kryptonians (including Supergirl's mother), and more. Supergirl spares his life, refuting his claims that her people are "rabid dogs", and he commits suicide rather than face retribution in public for his actions. That's all... very peculiar, and really kind of a "Marvel Comics" twist... or maybe it just feels that way because it's so clearly a variant of the "Thunderbolt Ross" cliche.

-Lane is... okay I just copied my Thunderbolt Ross build. If THEY'RE not gonna be original, why should I!?
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M4C8
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Jimmy Olsen! Daily Planet! Lois Lane!)

Post by M4C8 »

greycrusader wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 5:44 pm The Bronze Age version often showed martial arts skill, having the equivalent of a black belt in "Klukor", an "advanced" Kandorian martial art (yes, DC was still a bit sillier than Marvel in that era), while Modern Age Lois Lane sometimes evidences skills one might expect of the daughter of a military family. Again, this hasn't exactly been consistent. But Lois at least changes about as slowly as Superman himself in characterization, whereas Lana, Lucy Lane, and (since the mid-80s) Supergirl can be wildly different in personality and background whenever there's a change in editorial or writers.

The whole Gladiator thing...with him, the Sentry, and Hyperion, it really does seem as if Marvel envies DC for their flagship character; Hyperion started off as a rather good-natured swipe, along with the rest of the Squadron Sinister (with DC doing the same over in the JLA books, just much worse and less memorable), then we got a parallel Earth version of him who was an Eternal, and one who actually came from the Micro-Verse, the evil King Hyperion who was an actual alien, the Hyperion from the Earth X alternate future world, the other evil Hyperion from the last Secret Wars, the zombie-clone, the nuclear-powered guy from Hickman's Avengers' run, the Mephisto-created version...and the power levels are all over the map! Does he get trounced by the Hulk or Thor after giving them a decent scrap, or can he straight-up murder every top-tier hero on Earth? Likewise, Gladiator started out as a guy who got knocked out by Cyclops' full-strength blast and had to duke it out with Colossus for a full page before putting Peter Rasputin down (and this was mid-80s Colossus, before he leveled-up), then Byrne had him trouncing the whole Fantastic Four with ease (though he couldn't break Captain America's shield), and the power-geeking with him REALLY began, having him tear through planets, push through black holes, defeat whole armadas of starships, and otherwise be basically invincible...except when he loses to Thor, the Hulk, Cannonball...

And the whole point of the original Sentry mini-series was that the Silver Age Superman DOESN"T WORK IN THE MARVEL UNIVERSE! Plus, he straight-up sucks.

Ah, well. All my best.
Sadly Gladiator has become a bit of a joke in recent years. He's supposed to have a resistance to telepathy/mind control plus over a century of experience but almost every time he shows up he's attacked by a psychic and 'looses his confidence' so gets beaten easily. I mean yes he has confidence fuelled power but I always saw it that he used his confidence to go extra, a boost akin to how Hulk uses rage, not as that which fuels his baseline power level (which should be massive)

Marvel also has Blue Marvel and Taegukgi as heroic Supermanalogues.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Jimmy Olsen! Daily Planet! Lois Lane!)

Post by Ken »

greycrusader wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 5:44 pmThe whole Gladiator thing...with him, the Sentry, and Hyperion, it really does seem as if Marvel envies DC for their flagship character...
But it is their envy of Superman, not Batman, that is germane to this discussion.
greycrusader wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 5:44 pmHyperion started off as a rather good-natured swipe, along with the rest of the Squadron Sinister (with DC doing the same over in the JLA books, just much worse and less memorable)
Do you mean the weird green JLA duplicates from Justice League of America #75, or the Assemblers/Champions of Angor from Justice League of America #87?

I can't agree with "much worse". "Worse," yeah. Mike Friedrich's Angorians were very sad. But it took Mark Gruenwald's 1985 maxi-series to give any real quality to the Squadron.
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Lana Lang

Post by Jabroniville »

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LANA LANG (aka The Insect Queen)
Created By:
Bill Finger & John Sikela
First Appearance: Superboy #10 (Sept. 1950)
Role: The Love Rival (to Lois), Childhood Girlfriend (to Superman)
Group Affiliations: None
PL 3 (39)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+4)
Deception 4 (+7)
Expertise (Business/Reporter) 6 (+8)
Insight 2 (+5)
Investigation 3 (+6)
Perception 1 (+4)

Advantages:
None

Offense:
Unarmed +0 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +4 (DC 14), Parry +2 (DC 12), Toughness +1, Fortitude +3, Will +5

Complications:
Relationship (Clark Kent)- Lana is sometimes aware that Clark is Superman, and in any case, she loved him when they were children, and sometimes chases after him as an adult.
Relationship (Pete Ross)- The two were married in the 1990s.

Total: Abilities: 20 / Skills: 20--10 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 9 (39)

Lois Lane's Love Rival:
-Batman's co-creator Bill Finger also created Lana Lang, who was effectively the "Lois Lane" to Superboy, holding the same role in his book. See, Lois & Clark had only really met as adults (short of mini-retcons and one-off meetings as teens), so the Superboy feature needed a different character if they wanted to tell the same kinds of stories. And so came the strawberry blonde manipulator Lana, who was Clark's Smallville gal-pal, and was constantly trying to prove that Clark & Superboy were one and the same person. Having a famous archeologist for a father meant she was frequently ending up endangered in exotic locales. After her creation, she started popping up in Superman tales as well, this time acting as a direct rival to Lois for Superman's affections. The "Lois or Lana?" story was often played, as was stuff like "Both women reject Superman & try to marry Gods" or whatever.

-In 1965, Lana gained insect-based super-powers thanks to saving an insect-like alien from a fallen tree- she became the "Insect Queen" in these stories, and this would be a recurring feature (years later, in Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?, Alan Moore had her & Jimmy Olsen regain their superhuman powers, and die fighting Superman's villains). She had an inventor uncle in some stories, and met the Legion of Super-Heroes in others. She eventually became a TV reporter in Metropolis, and was Clark's co-anchor when the Daily Planet became a TV operation. She eventually dropped an interest in Superman in favor of the alien hero Vartox, but prior to the Crisis, she & Clark hooked up. Writers of the time more or less admit that Lana was a different character in nearly every story, with no "set" personality- sometimes she was manipulative and kind of rotten; in other stories, she was massively catty. At times she was heroic, selfish, annoying or loving- there was little consistency as various writers all had their own idea what Lana, Lois Lane's Love Rival, should be like.

-Curiously, Lana also had an Earth-Two counterpart (1950 is early enough that some Golden Age tales crossed over), but she did not know Clark in her youth. She still became the Insect Queen, but was controlled by the Ultra-Humanite.

Post-Crisis Lana:
-Following the Crisis, Lana became a long-suffering childhood friend of Clark's- she loved him, but he liked her only platonically. It was revealed that after graduating Smallville High, Clark told her he needed to talk to her- expecting a marriage proposal, Lana was stunned to hear Clark reveal that he had SUPER-POWERS, and that he felt the need to leave Smallville to serve humanity as a whole. This left Lana double-heartbroken, as it proved once and for all he held no romantic feelings for her. She actually became a bit of a stalker in adulthood, and was tortured by Lex Luthor when he realized how often she turned up at his missions- she refused to give up Clark's secret, and she & Clark hashed out their feelings and gained a healthier relationship. But overall, she wasn't a big deal at all until the 2000s.

-Mark Waid would retcon back a childhood romance in 2003's Superman: Birthright, taking inspiration from the Smallville TV show. But soon after, Infinite Crisis returned Clark's "Superboy" stories to canon. Eventually, however, Lana married Pete Ross (Clark's childhood friend). When Pete became the President of the United States after Luthor's arrest, she was thus First Lady, but started making subtle attempts at regaining Clark's affections, much to the annoyance of Lois. She & Pete later reconciled, but she gained control of LexCorp and even pushed a button to detonate all the company's kryptonite (flooding Earth's atmosphere with it) when Superman & Batman came to swipe it. This left Clark dramatically pointing out why he married Lois over her- Lois would never have pushed that button. She is later fired by Luthor when he returns for helping Superman (helping Kryptonians was against the rules in their "very, very fine print"). She later takes a mentor relationship with Supergirl and becomes a recurring character in Kara's book.

-Lana comes and goes in various adaptations of the Supes mythos- Superman: The Animated Series made her a bit of a rival for Lois- a childhood friend who also dug Clark. In Smallville, she was played by Kristen Kruek, who was popular for a time until the show's bad rep and her role in a Chun-Li picture detonated her career.

Lana's Stats:
-Lana is a pretty basic Backgrounder, but a bit more survivable than most. As the Insect Queen, she had the ability to gain the lower half of any insect or arachnid and swipe their powers.
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Re: Space-Boy

Post by Sidney369 »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 7:09 am
I don't think I've ever read a comic where she's fought anybody. What has she actually done, specifically?
Her story in Action #600 had her defeat a group of gunmen who had discovered her investigating them, and she mentioned that she had received training from both a former Green Beret and a former Las Vegas showgirl who had developed her own high kick-based form of self defense.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Jimmy Olsen! Daily Planet! Lois Lane!)

Post by greycrusader »

Ken wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 10:38 pm
greycrusader wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 5:44 pmThe whole Gladiator thing...with him, the Sentry, and Hyperion, it really does seem as if Marvel envies DC for their flagship character...
But it is their envy of Superman, not Batman, that is germane to this discussion.
Fair enough, LOL. But Marvel ALSO churned out at least TEN versions of NOT-Batman (an even dozen if you include Moon Knight and the Shroud) to go along with Gladiator, Sentry, Sun God, Virtue, and multiple iterations of Hyperion (I won't count Wundarr since he was clearly intended to parody Superman before turning into something else entirely).
greycrusader wrote: Tue Dec 27, 2022 5:44 pmHyperion started off as a rather good-natured swipe, along with the rest of the Squadron Sinister (with DC doing the same over in the JLA books, just much worse and less memorable)
Do you mean the weird green JLA duplicates from Justice League of America #75, or the Assemblers/Champions of Angor from Justice League of America #87?

I can't agree with "much worse". "Worse," yeah. Mike Friedrich's Angorians were very sad. But it took Mark Gruenwald's 1985 maxi-series to give any real quality to the Squadron.
Both, actually, both the Champions of Angor just had overall bad character designs, and odd non-sequitars like naming a white guy with a battleaxe after an Australian aboriginal deity and calling a woman with no silver in her costume or hair "The Silver Sorcercess".

All my best.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Daily Planet! Lois Lane! Lucy Lane! Lana Lang!)

Post by Quasimofo »

Man there are a LOT of stories of someone hurting themselves trying to spank Superbaby/boy. Like... a kind of disturbing amount of lot. Makes me wonder if Clark gave Lois a kryptonite paddle to keep in a lead box in the closet for... reasons.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Daily Planet! Lois Lane! Lucy Lane! Lana Lang!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Alright, I updated Modern Lois Lane to a PL 4 :). I also upgraded her Will save by a bit, since +5 doesn't really seem adequate even in the stuff I've read of the modern incarnation of the character.
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Gangbuster

Post by Jabroniville »

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GANGBUSTER (José Delgado)
Created By:
Marv Wolfman & Jerry Ordway
First Appearance: The Adventures of Superman #428 (May 1987)
Role: Urban Vigilante, Intervening Love Interest
Group Affiliations: STAR Labs
PL 8 (115)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 (+8)
Athletics 7 (+10)
Deception 6 (+8)
Expertise (Teacher) 4 (+6)
Expertise (Streetwise) 5 (+7)
Insight 4 (+6)
Intimidation 3 (+6)
Investigation 3 (+6)
Perception 3 (+6)
Stealth 3 (+7)
Vehicles 2 (+6)

Advantages:
Equipment 4 (Guns +5, Nunchucks +2, Batons +1), Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Trip, Ranged Attack 6, Startle

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Batons +11 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Nunchucks +11 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 11), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +4, Fortitude +5, Will +6

Complications:
Motivation (Stopping Crime)- José finds that crime in Suicide Slum threatens the teenagers in the area, and fights to defend them from gangs.
Relationship (Lois Lane)- José enters a relationship with Lois, and the two are together for a few years.

Total: Abilities: 68 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 13 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 12 (115)

-lol, why is it always Superman characters I discover had been a deal for literally years and that I've never heard of them? José Delgado is Gangbuster- an urban vigilante from Metropolis's Suicide Slum that took to the streets to clean up the street gang problem himself. A school teacher, he was also a trained boxer and mentor to Jerry White, the son of Perry. This is probably how he met Lois Lane- in Marv Wolfman's work on Superman (after John Byrne left), Delgado is the love interest for Lois, creating some drama between her & Clark. Eventually, the super-strong armored man Combattor went after Lois, and José was injured rescuing her. Losing the use of his legs from a spinal injury, he was given a cybernetic implant. A new Gangbuster appears, but he's revealed to be an amnesiac Superman. José learns that the cybernetics that saved him were developed by LexCorp, and Luthor uses it to force him to attack Prof. Emil Hamilton- Hamilton thankfully disables this. However, José was fired from his job and evicted from his apartment building thanks to LexCorp shenanigans- when he accepts their help, Lois finds out and ends their relationship. He later became the bodyguard of Lois's workplace rival Cat Grant, and the two hooked up.

-A weird little side character, but one that helps make Metropolis a little "wider"- a city with more than one superhero. And because he has no powers, he doesn't diminish anyone else- he's just kind of an extra guy. Not quite Wolfman's "Precious Pet", most of his appearances seem to be written by Jerry Ordway, who hands the writing and drawing himself on Adventures (and one appearance in Showcase '95). Roger Stern, always good about playing with others' toys, uses him frequently in his two books (Superman & Action Comics), so the character is always kinda around... but then the Death of Superman hits in 1993, and he completely falls off the face of the Earth. He shows up in a 1995 Black Lightning series as an ultraviolent vigilante, but this was revealed to have been an impostor that the real one helps stop. Then ages later he shows up in Kurt Busiek's Trinity (coincidentally sometimes drawn by Ordway), more issues written by Fabian Nicieza, and in 2010 in Supergirl, working for STAR Labs with Dr. Light II to save Lana Lang. So he's one of those weird "relic" characters- a guy who shows up and plays a major role for a number of years (1987-1993 it looks like) and then just vanishes for years.

-Gangbuster is a non-powered hero, using his fists and guns (!) to stop criminals. I wonder what Superman's take was of a literal gun-toting vigilante in his hometown.
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Mister Sinister

Post by Jabroniville »

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MISTER SINISTER
Created By:
Jerry Siegel & Leo Nowak
First Appearance: Superman #16 (May-June 1942)
Role: One-Off Villain, Otherdimensional Robber

-Sharing a name with Marvel's X-villain of some repute, this guy was a one-off villain from 1942 with a penchant for rhyming. Hailing from the 4th Dimension, he made repeated demands for money, using his people's vast technology (or his own powers?) to teleport things to his dimension. He swiped a brand-new skyscraper, demanding $100,000 for its return. He robs a bank by teleporting it away, looting it, then returning it, then abducts the entire Daily Planet staff. Clark Kent is tied to a chair, but moves too quickly to be seen and changes into his Superman costume- the thugs think Clark has vanished, and are beaten. Mr. Sinister uses a powerful cannon that stuns Superman, but later tries to shoot him after a fight, and Superman punches him- the gun drops and fires at Sinister, leaving behind only a shadow.
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