Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Faora! Kru-El! Jax-Ur!)

Post by Ares »

Kurlan Aank wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 2:50 pm I've been working on a "Coming-of-Age' superhero story with a character who starts out as Luke Cage (Freshman Year), but ends up as Superman(Graduation Year), and working on his 'support cast' has been a chore. All of these points have helped me figure out just how to work around all of it in the end, especially your points about the Legion. Thanks!
My pleasure. Happy to hear that wall of text was entertaining/helpful to at least one person. 😁
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
User avatar
Ken
Posts: 3460
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:40 pm
Location: Sycalb, Madiganistan

Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Faora! Kru-El! Jax-Ur!)

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 5:59 am Image
FAORA HU-UL
Created By:
Cary Bates & Curt Swan
First Appearance: Action Comics #471 (May 1977)
Role: General Zod's Minion, Serial Killer
Jabroniville wrote: Sun Jan 01, 2023 11:56 am Image

QUEX-UL (aka Charlie Kewskill)
Created By:
Edmond Hamilton & Curt Swan
First Appearance: Superman #157 (Nov. 1962)
Role: Evil Kryptonian
I sometimes wonder if Faora and Quex-Ul were related given that they appear to both be of the House of Ul.


A different Quex-Ul was shown to be one of the Phantom Zoners in the "Pocket Universe", as well as a traditional Zod, and a Faora pallette swap called Zaora. As seen in these panels from Superman #22 (vol. 2)

Image
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.

When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Moonman

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

MOONMAN (Brice Rogers)
Created By:
Bill Finger & Dick Sprang
First Appearance: World's Finest #98 (Dec. 1958)
Role: Forgotten Villain

-Moonman was a silly forgotten early Silver Age villain with a tragic origin story- he was a pilot who was one of the first NASA people on the Moon, having been... thrown there in a rocket tossed by Superman. Well I mean that saves money on fuel. But while pilot Brice Rogers was circling the moon, he passed an asteroid made of kryptonite, which made him crazy and super-powered by Electromagnetism, but only at night. The kryptonite coming off of his body made him impossible for Superman to beat, and Batman & Robin also failed. But he was kidnapped by daylight by csome crooks, and made to commit crimes (why didn't he just choose then to escape?), but his powers were only temporary, and he helped the heroes round up the criminals and cleared his name.
User avatar
Gilliam
Posts: 1170
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:28 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Faora! Kru-El! Jax-Ur!)

Post by Gilliam »

Ares wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:58 am So, giving it 5 minutes of thought, here's a general outline of what I think Superman's supporting cast could look like.


Jor-El and Lara-El: Responsible for getting Clark to safety, but both very, very dead by the modern era. No interactive AI holograms, no "I survived and am taking your son" shenanigans, none of it. We might get some flashback stories showing Jor-El was an action science hero in his own right, but both are definitely dead in the modern age.

Jonathan and Martha Kent:Clark's parents, and even after discovering Jor-El and Lara, he never refers to anyone but Ma and Pa Kent as "his real parents". Genuinely good people, the kind of parents we need today, always willing to talk with Clark and give him advice.

Lois Lane: Downplay the "Superman's girlfriend" and "Superman saves Lois" memes. Have Lois be an early rival of Clark and have some romantic tension with Superman, but have Lois gradually see Clark's admirable traits and instead fall in love with him. Make this the key point of why they work: She fell in love with the MAN, not the SUPER. Have the courtship not drag on nearly as long, and have the standard be them as a married couple.

Jimmy Olsen: Jimmy is actually kind of a tough nut to crack if you want to keep the "Superman's Pal" angle. On the one hand, while Clark's closest relationships are with people who know his dual identity, Jimmy would be interesting as a friend he has primarily in his Superman identity. Jimmy could view Superman as a good mentor or big brother figure, and allow Clark to have a connection to someone without having to give up his identity. At the same time, I'm of the "Clark Kent is who Superman IS, Superman is what Clark Kent CAN DO" camp, so it would honestly make the friendship seem kind of shallow if Jimmy is only friends with Superman and not know who he really is. You could have Clark reveal his identity to Jimmy, but then Jimmy is just another person who knows Superman's ID and is more Clark Kent's pal. I don't know, this is oddly enough the relationship I'd need to put more thought into.

I always enjoy reading your thoughts about various heroes and I agree Jimmy is tricky. Possibly Jimmy could be friends with both Superman and Clark with different aspects of their personalities being the reason for the friendship, you could even have the "You know Clark that sounds just like what Superman would say, yeah he really inspires me too."

Over time you could have Jimmy come to the conclusion that Clark and Superman are one and the same but decide never to ask the question to confirm it as he is friends with both of them for different reasons?
User avatar
Davies
Posts: 5081
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:37 pm
Location: Edmonton, AB

Re: Moonman

Post by Davies »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 6:51 pm -Moonman was a silly forgotten early Silver Age villain with a tragic origin story- he was a pilot who was one of the first NASA people on the Moon, having been... thrown there in a rocket tossed by Superman. Well I mean that saves money on fuel. But while pilot Brice Rogers was circling the moon, he passed an asteroid made of kryptonite, which made him crazy and super-powered by Electromagnetism, but only at night. The kryptonite coming off of his body made him impossible for Superman to beat, and Batman & Robin also failed. But he was kidnapped by daylight by csome crooks, and made to commit crimes (why didn't he just choose then to escape?)
The crooks tied him up and exposed him to moonlight, causing his split personality to awaken. Neither personality was aware of the other, so Moonman didn't know that they'd kidnapped Rogers, and was told that he'd been tied up by Batman.
"I'm sorry. I love you. I'm not sorry I love you."
User avatar
catsi563
Posts: 4127
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:29 pm
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Faora! Kru-El! Jax-Ur!)

Post by catsi563 »

Id agree with all of the above save the AI holograms i like the idea of him having those as a sert of interactive library of Kryotons past and mistakes as wel as a sort of whos who of the galaxy so Superman can learn about the various aliens he comes into contact with
Dr. Silverback has wryly observed that this is like trying to teach lolcats about Shakespeare

Showdown at the Litterbox

Catsi stories
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Faora! Kru-El! Jax-Ur!)

Post by Ares »

catsi563 wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 7:47 pm Id agree with all of the above save the AI holograms i like the idea of him having those as a sert of interactive library of Kryotons past and mistakes as wel as a sort of whos who of the galaxy so Superman can learn about the various aliens he comes into contact with
There can be some sort of AI program or something to explain Krypton's history to Clark. I just don't want it to be basically a copy of Jor-El or Lara because it effectively allows them to live past Krypton's destruction. For some reason live action adaptations (Man of Steel, Smallville, Superman & Lois, etc.) want to keep him around as a holographic AI, where he often has waaaaay too much of an influence on Clark's life. Jor-El also has a tendency to get treated as cold and uncaring, or becomes an outright villain (looking at you, Bendis).

To me, Jor-El and Lara need to be dead, with no AI stand ins allowing them to live on or influence Clark. You can maybe have some time travel shenanigans where Clark gets to meet his bio-parents, but their deaths need to be part of the tragedy of Krypton, while their influence over him needs to be solely about ensuring his survival. At best you can have some parting, Marlin Brando-esque speech about "They could be great people Kal-El if they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way, this reason above all is why I send them you, my only son" to motivate Clark, but that should be the extent of it.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Golden Age Lex Luthor

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

LEX LUTHOR (Alexei Luthor)- Golden Age
Created By:
Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster
First Appearance: Action Comics #23 (April 1940)
Role: The Big Bad, Mad Scientist
PL 4 (103)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 8 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 8 (+11)
Expertise (Science) 5 (+13)
Expertise (Current Events) 3 (+11)
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 2 (+5)
Perception 2 (+5)
Technology 5 (+13)
Vehicles 4 (+8)

Advantages:
Equipment 10 (Super-Lab, etc.), Inventor, Ranged Attack 6

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +2, Fortitude +4, Will +7

Complications:
Enemy (Superman)
Obsession (Greed & Power)

Total: Abilities: 60 / Skills: 32--16 / Advantages: 17 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 10 (103)

-Lex Luthor is so integral to the Superman mythos that he basically has to be handled every bit as well as the main character to make a Superman piece of fiction work- various incarnations have been Mad Scientist, Armor-Clad Cackling Supervillain, and more, but ever since the 1980s, he's been the most dreaded of creatures- The 1980s Businessman. But back in 1940, when he debuted, Luthor was a simple evil genius with curly red hair, known only as "Luthor". He plotted to provoke a war between two European nations (come on- that's just far-fetched) and hides out in a FLYING CITY suspended by a dirigible, but kidnaps and investigating Lois Lane and is beaten by Superman. Superman destroys the dirigible with Luthor still on it, implying the villain is dead- these seeming deaths would become a recurring element, as writers liked the villain and brought him back.

-Luthor quickly returns to steal weapons that can cause earthquakes- the scientist who invented it commits suicide to prevent the device from being recreated. Luthor then RECREATES DINOSAURS and populates them on a previously-sunken lost continent, but he is seemingly killed by his own creations. The next issue sees him using hypnotizing gas on people so he can cause another economic depression. Generally, Luthor is depicted as either power-hungry or just greedy- his hatred of Superman is more because Supes keeps foiling his schemes rather than this deep-seated personal enmity. Within a year of his debut, an artist mistakenly drew him as completely bald in the newspaper strip (possibly artist Leo Nowak mistaking him for the Ultra-Humanite, who was a bald, elderly male)- this for some reason stuck, and Luthor was now a portly bald man. Surprisingly, Luthor then vanished for a number of years, reappearing only in Superboy in 1957. Subsequent Silver Age stories depict him as "Alexei Luthor" and keep the red hair from his earliest appearances to differentiate him from the "main" version of the man. The two team up on occasion, but this version is even MORE evil, being perfectly willing to destroy the Earth to accomplish their scheme- The Earth-One Luthor is horrified, as he has no desire to rule a lifeless husk, and doesn't want his sister to die.

-In Crisis on Infinite Earths, Lex Luthor & Brainiac plot to combine all the super-villains across all the Earths into one group, and Wolfman/Perez write out a little snag when the Earth-Two Lex Luthor pipes up, showing his different appearance (curly red hair) and demands respect and focus, saying "Our army doesn't need TWO Luthors". ... and Brainiac goes "Agreed" and vaporizes him on the spot. So he's written out and ignored entirely.

-The Golden Age Lex Luthor is almost unrecognizable from his later incarnation- as likely to steal an invention as he is to create it himself. He's still an evil genius, but more or less just creates the "Scheme of the Day" and needs to be foiled by the Man of Steel.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Silver Age Lex Luthor

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

LEX LUTHOR (Alexander Luthor)- Silver Age
Created By:
Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster
First Appearance: Action Comics #23 (April 1940)
Role: Big Bad, Mad Scientist
Group Affiliations: The Injustice League, The Superman Revenge Squad, The Secret Society of Super-Villains
PL 14 (247)
STRENGTH
2/17 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 11 AWARENESS 5 PRESENCE 6

Skills:
Deception 9 (+15)
Expertise (Business) 1 (+12)
Expertise (Science) 9 (+20)
Expertise (Current Events) 3 (+14)
Insight 6 (+11)
Intimidation 2 (+8)
Perception 2 (+7)
Persuasion 9 (+15)
Technology 9 (+20)
Vehicles 4 (+8)

Advantages:
Benefit 2 (Wealth), Daze (Deception), Equipment 10 (Super-Lab, etc.), Eidetic Memory, Inventor, Leadership, Ranged Attack 7, Skill Mastery 2 (Science, Technology), Ultimate Technology Skill, Ultimate Science Skill, Ultimate Business Skill, Well-Informed

Powers:
"Garish Power Suit" (Flaws: Removable) [90]
Enhanced Strength 15 (30)
Flight 8 (500 mph) (16)
Blast 17 (Feats: Split, Improved Critical) (36) -- (37)
  • AE: "Body Shock" Affliction 13 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned/Incapacitated) (Extras: Cumulative) (26)
Protection 13 (Extras: Impervious 11) (24)
Senses 5 (Extended Vision, Vision Penetrates Concealment) (5)
-- (112 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Suit +6 (+17 Damage, DC 32)
Blast +11 (+17 Ranged Damage, DC 32)
Body Shock +6 (+13 Affliction, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +4 (+17 Suit), Fortitude +6, Will +10

Complications:
Enemy (Superman)- Luthor hero-worshipped Superboy as a teen, but when Superboy accidentally destroyed all his research while saving Lex from a fire, an act that also cost Luthor his hair, he swore vengeance.
Obsession (Greed & Power)
Relationship (Lena Thorul)- Lex actually deeply cares for his sister, who was a toddler when the family disowned him. He desperately wants her to never realize that he is a super-villain.

Total: Abilities: 82 / Skills: 54--27 / Advantages: 29 / Powers: 90 / Defenses: 19 (247)

-So with Luthor reappearing in the Superboy stories, he got a new lease on life. For the first time ever, he also got a FIRST NAME- the Silver Age "Lex Luthor" debuts in Adventure Comics #271 in April 1960. Now, he was a teenage boy at the same time of Superboy's stories, growing up in Smallville and being obsessed with being history's greatest scientist, while hero-worshipping. His recklessness and inexperience creates a fire that Superboy has to save him from- Superboy's attempts at putting out the fire destroys Luthor's research on artificial life, and fumes from the chemicals cause Luthor's hair to fall out. Now permanently bald, he goes mad with resentment and blames Superboy ENTIRELY for all this, turning them into permanent adversaries. So the Silver Age Luthor is a delusional jackass unable to accept his own failure- and there's a great tragedy in knowing how powerful a force of good the two could have been (I wonder how much of this Stan & Jack lifted for Doctor Doom's origin). He is given a younger sister in Lena, whose parents changed the family last name out of shame- "Lena Thorul" is watched over by Lex, who doesn't want her to know what became of him.

-This Luthor eventually finds an alien world where he is seen as a hero for using his inventions to save lives- Superman is seen as a villain- delighted, the inhabitants rename the planet "Lexor" and Lex takes a wife named Ardora. He has a son (Lex Jr., naturally) and after years of returning to Lexor between schemes, retires there. But, a villain's villain, he grows dissatisfied without his conflict with Superman- using Lexor's ancient technology he builds a "War-Suit" to match Superman and counter his powers, and he's off. The people of Lexor are horrified by the destruction he knowingly wreaks on their world- even worse, Luthor releases a blast that overloads a device he'd built to stabilize Lexor, and it explodes as Krypton had, killing his wife and son and all the other Lexorians. Naturally, Luthor blames Superman 100% for this, blocking out his own guilt psychologically. It's this version I was most familiar with in my childhood, as they made the "DC Super Powers" toy in that image, with the George Perez-designed "Warsuit".

-In the final Pre-Crisis story, Whatever Happened To the Man of Tomorrow?, Luthor finds himself mind-controlled by the severed head of Brainiac. Horrified and in pain, he begs Lana Lang to kill him- she uses super-powers to do so, eventually leaving Brainiac to power down.

-This version of Luthor is more familiar to modern fans- an evil genius with a powerful suit. This Luthor isn't as much an evil businessman, though.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Jan 03, 2023 7:26 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Ares »

Woo! Lex Luthor, possibly the most well known supervillain with the possible exception of the Joker.

I'll wait to comment on the character in full once all the versions are up, but I will say you might be low-balling the Pre-Crisis Warsuit. Despite fighting the most powerful non-Loeb Superman, the suit allowed Lex to trade blows with Superman pretty evenly and never really took much damage from what I can recall. It was at ground zero when planet Lexor blew up and survived without a scratch, and I don't really recall Superman ever heavily damaging the suit the way Post-Crisis versions of the armor tends to eventually get shredded.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
User avatar
Davies
Posts: 5081
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:37 pm
Location: Edmonton, AB

Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Davies »

It has been suggested that the "went bald, became evil" might have been a dig at Mort Weisinger.

What's amazing is that, for all of its iconic status, the Warsuit was only around for three years, including a story where Lex lost control of it and was forced to team up with Supes to prevent it from sterilizing the Earth.
"I'm sorry. I love you. I'm not sorry I love you."
User avatar
Ares
Site Admin
Posts: 4963
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:40 am

Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Ares »

Davies wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 2:22 am What's amazing is that, for all of its iconic status, the Warsuit was only around for three years, including at least one story where Lex lost control of it and was forced to team up with Supes to prevent it from sterilizing the Earth.
My understanding is that it was designed for the Kenner Toyline by George Perez, along with the new look for Brainiac, so they showed up just in time for Crisis to happen and reset everything. However, the fact that it appeared as a toy, in the cartoon of the time AND was what Luthor was wearing during Crisis on Infinite Earths did mean it made an impact on a lot of people, which likely accounts for its longevity. It has a very distinct, iconic look, so it' understandable why it keeps getting reused and tweaked.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

Want to support me and Echoes of the Multiverse? Follow this link to subscribe or donate.
User avatar
Ken
Posts: 3460
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:40 pm
Location: Sycalb, Madiganistan

Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Ken »

I think it would be fair to say that the post-Crisis Luthor has more in common with the golden age Luthor. Despite his own brilliance he relies on the scientific breakthroughs of others, whether he obtains them legally or not. He had red hair, until he went bald. And his personal connection to Superman's past was no where to be seen.

Combine that with a less-powerful Superman who was never Superrboy and a Lois Lane who eventually falls for an marries Clark Kent, I think it's safe to say the post-Crisis Superman was more Earth-Two than Earth-One.
My Amazing Woman: a super-hero romantic comedy podcast.

When the most powerful super hero on Earth marries an ordinary man, hilarity ensues.
greycrusader
Posts: 1179
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by greycrusader »

The Golden Age Luthor highlights a bit of a missing trope in M&M 3rd edition rules, namely the "mastermind/criminal scientist" who isn't normally personally powerful in combat, but can craft elaborate death traps, or super-science devices, or just huge freaking weapons to menace the heroes. The Inventor, Equipment, and Artificer advantages sort of simulate this a bit, along with retrofitting feats/powers such as Master Plan or Probability Control using 3e mechanics, though just resorting to GM fiat is easier.

This should really apply to a LOT of DC villains, such as Joker, Riddler, and Toyman, because while they're never one on one threats to Batman or Superman, they remain persistent threats.

Crystal Frasier, the former line developer, was actually working on coming up with a fix for this in the rules, but recently stepped away due to some IRL matters, along with her burgeoning freelance writing career.

All my best.

P.S. Jab, the Silver Age Luthor was portrayed as middle-aged and portly; he traditionally just wore either a gray prison uniform or a business suit, and rarely confronted Kal-El in single combat unless he had obtained super-powers (not uncommon, actually); the Bronze Age guy wore the purple and green fighting togs, with jet boots, "power-gloves", and a host of built-in gadgetry. The warsuit-clad Luthor was a pretty late development, as said by Ares.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 2:17 am Woo! Lex Luthor, possibly the most well known supervillain with the possible exception of the Joker.

I'll wait to comment on the character in full once all the versions are up, but I will say you might be low-balling the Pre-Crisis Warsuit. Despite fighting the most powerful non-Loeb Superman, the suit allowed Lex to trade blows with Superman pretty evenly and never really took much damage from what I can recall. It was at ground zero when planet Lexor blew up and survived without a scratch, and I don't really recall Superman ever heavily damaging the suit the way Post-Crisis versions of the armor tends to eventually get shredded.
OK- I've never read an issue where he fights anyone really powerful while in that suit, I think, so I just used the JLU version.
Post Reply