Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Jabroniville »

greycrusader wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:47 am The Golden Age Luthor highlights a bit of a missing trope in M&M 3rd edition rules, namely the "mastermind/criminal scientist" who isn't normally personally powerful in combat, but can craft elaborate death traps, or super-science devices, or just huge freaking weapons to menace the heroes. The Inventor, Equipment, and Artificer advantages sort of simulate this a bit, along with retrofitting feats/powers such as Master Plan or Probability Control using 3e mechanics, though just resorting to GM fiat is easier.

This should really apply to a LOT of DC villains, such as Joker, Riddler, and Toyman, because while they're never one on one threats to Batman or Superman, they remain persistent threats.

Crystal Frasier, the former line developer, was actually working on coming up with a fix for this in the rules, but recently stepped away due to some IRL matters, along with her burgeoning freelance writing career.

All my best.
I think it's generally assumed that whole deal is a "GM vs. the Player" battle anyways- like you gotta invent a new device every game. Most of said villains use henchmen, elite hired goons, etc., and their deathtraps are the trouble.
P.S. Jab, the Silver Age Luthor was portrayed as middle-aged and portly; he traditionally just wore either a gray prison uniform or a business suit, and rarely confronted Kal-El in single combat unless he had obtained super-powers (not uncommon, actually); the Bronze Age guy wore the purple and green fighting togs, with jet boots, "power-gloves", and a host of built-in gadgetry. The warsuit-clad Luthor was a pretty late development, as said by Ares.
Most DC stuff tends to not differentiate Silver Age from Bronze Age in terms of who is what- the continuity is more or less a straight line barring some weirdness here and there like retcons and new origin stories... and a lot of characters appearing a LOT less powerful in the '80s than they had under the "Drag multiple planets via a chain" Silver Age stuff (DC had worse continuity than Marvel, who had far fewer titles AND fewer editors to muck things up- power levels could shift DRAMATICALLY in just a few years' time). Like the old "DC Cards" from the '90s just had Golden Age, Silver Age and Modern, and I kept the same thing going.

Granted the Bronze Age saw a lot of "Marvelification" at DC as they themselves de-powered a lot of guys and got a lot more "adult" to grab some older fans, to the point where their target audience seemed to be MUCH older than Marvel's by the time I got into comics (DC was where people said "hell" and "damn" a lot). But like... Silver Age Luthor would just be the Bronze Age one minus the suit, stats-wise, wouldn't he?
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:49 am
Ares wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 2:17 am Woo! Lex Luthor, possibly the most well known supervillain with the possible exception of the Joker.

I'll wait to comment on the character in full once all the versions are up, but I will say you might be low-balling the Pre-Crisis Warsuit. Despite fighting the most powerful non-Loeb Superman, the suit allowed Lex to trade blows with Superman pretty evenly and never really took much damage from what I can recall. It was at ground zero when planet Lexor blew up and survived without a scratch, and I don't really recall Superman ever heavily damaging the suit the way Post-Crisis versions of the armor tends to eventually get shredded.
OK- I've never read an issue where he fights anyone really powerful while in that suit, I think, so I just used the JLU version.
In fairness, a lot of the time Lex would do things to weaken Superman before or during the fights, but even when Clark was at full power he never managed to damage the suit and you'd get scenes like this:

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Or this:

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There was also an issue where Lex managed to get Superman into the armor, and the armor actually resisted his attempts to escape, both by smashing the armor into a mountain at top speed and then by using heat vision on it, which only succeeded in burning himself. The armor also had some internal Red Solar energy weapons to cause Superman pain.

What's kind of funny is those older issues (at least the Curt Swan issues) clearly showed the armor had a transparent dome around Lex's head, making the whole "doesn't wear a helmet" thing kind of silly. It's even easier to explain away these days that the armor just has a personal force field.

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Ares »

As for the Silver / Bronze Age thing, Jab's right in that there really isn't a clear cut off between the ages and technically everything that happened during the Silver Age was still canon for the Bronze Age, as there'd often be references to those earlier adventures. However, there was a gradual scaling down of the power levels of characters starting in the 70s, and the Comics Code Authority loosening up on some rules allowed for more serious / less silly storylines. By the late 70s / early 80s, moving planets had gone from something Superboy could do casually to something Superman could only do with extreme effort. No more flying planets to other galaxies, and even moving the moon became a big deal.

So it wasn't like the Silver and Bronze Ages had different continuities, but there was a clear difference in storytelling and power level.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Jabroniville »

I modified the "Powersuit Luthor" to have +17 stats for strength & durability, which will probably justify a bunch of that stuff, lol. Given his genius, I'm assuming he has a ton of bullshit one-off powers like "LOLZ NOW YOU'RE 2D!" (an Affliction Transformation).
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by greycrusader »

Jab, I realized in hindsight you, Ares, and Ken are correct-there really was never an differentiation between DC's Silver Age and Bronze Age, at least not in the sense of their editorial relegating a whole era's worth of stories to a parallel world's continuity. It just seems odd at times, as the tone and types of stories REALLY changed radically, far more so than Marvel's books did over the same time span. I mean, obviously the Marvel Universe also "grew up" a bit, tackling socially topical material, being generally written in a more mature style, but with DC it is way more noticeable.

I mean, the Silver Age Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen, and Lex Luthor are way different in personality and behavior, even in their manner of dress. Lois and Jimmy went from hapless goofs who got into silly misadventures before being rescued by Superman to a modern-seeming career woman who tackled dangerous and controversial stories and a daring young adventurer involved in super-science weirdness. Luthor actually gained some complexity (his only bit in the Silver Age was the connection to Lexor), along with a slimmed down physique and some a measure of bravery and compassion. Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and the other mainstays were having FAR different adventures. The one who stayed closest to his original stories was the Flash, whose book remained pretty outlandish.

I think this goes back to what Ken said about how DC was going after elementary school through early high-school kids in the 1960s, whereas Marvel always targeted those kids' older brothers and sisters. So the shift in content was way more noticeable on DC's end.

All my best.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Spectrum »

Just came across a group that didn't it to The List- the Futurians by Dave Cockrum. Or are they just too obscure and poorly defined?

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Ares »

greycrusader wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 3:37 pm Jab, I realized in hindsight you, Ares, and Ken are correct-there really was never an differentiation between DC's Silver Age and Bronze Age, at least not in the sense of their editorial relegating a whole era's worth of stories to a parallel world's continuity. It just seems odd at times, as the tone and types of stories REALLY changed radically, far more so than Marvel's books did over the same time span. I mean, obviously the Marvel Universe also "grew up" a bit, tackling socially topical material, being generally written in a more mature style, but with DC it is way more noticeable.
It's possible for "The Silver and Bronze Ages to share a single, seamless continuity" and "The Silver and Bronze Age versions of the same characters are very different from one another" to both be true at the same time.

DC was in a very different position than Marvel during the Silver Age because DC had published superhero stories non-stop through the 40s, 50s and 60s, having had to deal with the Comics Code Authority and Seduction of the Innocent nonsense whereas Marvel just stopped doing superheroes and switched over to sci-fi and western stories. By the time the Silver Age started, DC was well established as the light-hearted, silly and fun superhero company, and a reason for the Batman 66 series being so campy was that it was a faithful translation of DC Comics of that era. So when the Silver Age started, well, DC just kept doing what they were doing.

Marvel meanwhile started the Silver Age with the desire to be different, to go for the college kids who had more disposable income and to tell the kind of stories they wanted. So they had a bit more freedom and didn't have as much . . . 'fictional momentum' I suppose you'd call it, where DC basically had their own formula for success that had worked for decades and stuck with it. It took the success of Marvel and the weakening of the comics code for DC to start adapting, trying to reach out to Marvel's audience, and getting the slow shift from the Silver Age to the Bronze Age.

It's not unlike how there really wasn't a big continuity change from Marvel between the Bronze Age and the Dark / Iron Age of the 90s, but the characters of that era all looked, acted and were very different from the characters of the 70s and 80s.

Honestly, that late 70s/early-to-mid 80s era of DC was a pretty good butterzone of quality, and something DC should try to emulate. You had heroes who were still idealistic, noble and virtuous, but not as silly or overpowered as the Silver Age.
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Modern Lex Luthor

Post by Jabroniville »

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LEX LUTHOR- Modern Age
Created By:
Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster
First Appearance: Action Comics #23 (April 1940)
Role: Big Bad, Evil '80s Businessman, The Manipulator
Group Affiliations: The Injustice League, The Superman Revenge Squad
PL 13 (245)
STRENGTH
2/11 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 11 AWARENESS 5 PRESENCE 6

Skills:
Deception 9 (+15)
Expertise (Business) 9 (+20)
Expertise (Politics) 2 (+13)
Expertise (Science) 7 (+18)
Expertise (Current Events) 3 (+14)
Insight 6 (+11)
Intimidation 2 (+8)
Perception 2 (+7)
Persuasion 9 (+15)
Technology 8 (+18)
Vehicles 4 (+8)

Advantages:
Benefit 5 (Wealth), Daze (Deception), Equipment 10 (Super-Lab, etc.), Eidetic Memory, Inventor, Leadership, Ranged Attack 7, Skill Mastery 2 (Science, Technology), Ultimate Technology Skill, Ultimate Science Skill, Ultimate Business Skill, Well-Informed

Powers:
"Garish Power Suit" (Flaws: Removable) [81]
Enhanced Strength 12 (24)
Flight 16 (1,000 mph) (18)
Blast 15 (Feats: Split, Improved Critical) (32) -- (33)
  • AE: "Body Shock" Affliction 13 (Fort; Dazed/Stunned/Incapacitated) (Extras: Cumulative) (26)
Protection 10 (Extras: Impervious 11) (21)
Senses 5 (Extended Vision, Vision Penetrates Concealment) (5)
-- (101 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Suit +6 (+14 Damage, DC 30)
Blast +11 (+16 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Body Shock +6 (+13 Affliction, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +4 (+14 Suit), Fortitude +7, Will +10

Complications:
Enemy (Superman)- Luthor despises that Superman is both more powerful and beloved than he is, and that Superman won't work for him.
Obsession (Greed & Power)- Luthor is possibly the most megalomaniacal person on Earth.
Responsibility (Arrogant & Evil)- Luthor is so evil that he cannot contemplate good people- when shown direct evidence that Clark Kent could be Superman, Luthor disregards it, disbelieving that anyone so mighty would ever pretend to be weak.

Total: Abilities: 82 / Skills: 60--30 / Advantages: 32 / Powers: 81 / Defenses: 20 (245)

Lex Luthor- Evil 1980s Billionaire:
-In the 1980s, John Byrne was hired on to reinvent Superman, and in so doing, transformed Luthor into the most terrifying villain imaginable- THE 1980s BUSINESSMAN!!! Yes, Wall Street and other movies, as well as the ludicrously loud, arrogant, snotty behavior of investment bankers, real estate tycoons and assorted loudmouthed assholes of that decade had turned the "Greedy Businessman" into the world's greatest and most realistic villain. And so Lex Luthor was now the founder of "LexCorp" and the most powerful man in all Metropolis... and felt great anger and annoyance when the flashy, invincible SUPERMAN showed up, stealing all his thunder and being unable to be bought. Byrne based his Luthor off of Donald Trump, Ted Turner, Howard Hughes and "Satan himself!", making him a sinister, smirking figure, always self-assured and not a cackling madman like other versions had been. Byrne had initially depicted him as brutish and overweight, but he later got into shape.

-This Luthor was a REAL menace for Superman, because unlike the old version, he wasn't just some mad scientist busting out of prison and finding death robots against Superman, who was superior to him in every way. No, this Luthor was SMARTER than Superman, and that's why he couldn't be beaten- he was too savvy and too hidden beneath layers of legalities, so Superman could never "prove" that he was a criminal. Byrne & Marv Wolfman give him some more backstory- he's now a product of child abuse and poverty, growing up in Suicide Slum alongside Perry White. He becomes wealthy by starting a business using inheritance money he gains from taking out a huge life insurance policy on his parents and then cutting their brake line, killing them both. LexCorp, his new company, soon dominates Metropolis. In his debut, he knowingly allows terrorists to take him hostage just to see how Superman responds personally, then attempts to hire him. The mayor of Metropolis has him arrested for reckless endangerment, and the humiliation of the arrest and Superman's rejection enrages him enough to make Superman an enemy- all to prove his power.

-This Luthor also used to have a Kryptonite Ring around his finger- this eventually gave him a form of terminal cancer- Luthor first loses an arm to it, but eventually has a body cloned that makes him fitter and transfers his brain into it, faking his death and introducing himself as "Lex Luthor II", eager to make up for the mistakes of his "father". This body eventually deteriorates thanks to a sickness that affects all clones, and he sells his soul to Neron for full health (he doesn't believe in souls anyways, so he doesn't care about the ramifications)- he is restored in a body that resembles his old one in age, and his hair is gone once more. And he regains his soul thanks to superheroes anyways.

Luthor's Character Evolves:
-Interestingly, Byrne's depiction, while becoming the standard in all later incarnations, didn't depict him as a SCIENTIFIC genius at first, but by the 1990s, that started influencing Luthor portrayals again. Neil Gaiman preferred that version: "It's a pity Lex Luthor has become a multinationalist; I liked him better as a bald scientist. He was in prison, but they couldn't put his mind in prison. Now he's just a skinny Kingpin." This Luthor also tries to court Lois Lane a bunch, comes to mourn the loss of his enemy in The Death of Superman, manipulates the protoplasm that became Supergirl into loving him, and more. In Grant Morrison's JLA, he goes towards open villainy, forming an "Injustice League" alongside Prometheus, Queen Bee and others. Luthor eventually marries a near-immortal woman and has a daughter named Lena- eventually killing his wife so he can raise Lena without interference, but Luthor eventually gives her up to Brainiac-13, who requires a vessel, in return for some sweet technology.

-DC pulled off an amazing story in the late '90s when Lex Luthor was ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. The smirking asshole had fooled the American voters despite his open greed and villainy (HOW UNREALISTIC RIGHT?), and now Superman and others had to do their duty and obey him. Seeing Superman seethe while having to shake the hand of "Mr. President" was glorious. Luthor is President during Our Worlds At War, trying to act like a great leader by himself, only making things worse when his plan is hijacked by Brainiac- Superman eventually returns Lena to him and suggests he try to be a man for once. Superman Birthright and other tales return Silver Age elements like a childhood friendship between Lex & Clark Kent, and Geoff Johns later "fanfics" in that Luthor included his own DNA with Superman's to make Superboy (Kon-El).

-Finally, after years of this, the "President" arc came to a head in Superman/Batman under Jeph Loeb, where Luthor builds the classic Silver Age green & purple armored suit and goes nuts, eventually being taken down by the heroes and arrested. His name ruined, Luthor manages to brilliantly come back later when Alexander Luthor from Earth-Three turns evil and manipulates the remaining Earth into nearly destroying itself- Alexander disguises himself as Lex to manipulate the villains and heroes, but Lex sneaks in at the last moment and has his ally the Joker slaughter Alexander ("You should have let the Joker play"), and then later grabs the press and is like "SEE?! This man WASN'T me? He was merely pretending to be me!" and manages to exonerate himself for all past crimes over it. Fuckin' snake. You gotta love it.

-In 52, Luthor gives tons of people super-powers, but deliberately shuts them off during a massive publicity stunt, resulting in the deaths of hundreds as they fall from the sky- he also has a man butchered in order to give himself superpowers, but is enraged to learn that even a full organ transplant (since the man was a perfect match for Luthor's super-power program) doesn't work. At one point he gains cosmic powers enough to remove all suffering from the universe- this would allow him to succeed in proving that he helps the world more than Superman... but he refuses to use them because it'd mean Superman himself could not suffer. Much later, he kills tends of thousands of Kryptonians (including Supergirl's mother) during the "Kandor War" arc, and receives a presidential pardon for it.

Lex Luthor As A Whole:
-Lex is one of THE big supervillains in the genre, and famous worldwide for a reason. He exemplifies maniacal villainy and super-science, and is an icon for being the greatest villain of the world's greatest and most famous hero. All the better that he's a powerless man with a bunch of inventions- if he'd been some Mirror Image Villain or another powerhouse he'd be nowhere near as famous- it means that many/most of Superman's stories had to be about OUTSMARTING a guy or assorted shenanigans instead of a brawl, and that made stories work from the Golden Age to the Silver Age- it's no mistake that the Bronze Age saw him don a powersuit and start fighting. The "Evil Businessman" schtick was a stroke of brilliance- wise men throughout history warn of the corruption of greed and the desire for wealth and respect, so Lex The Evil 1980s Businessman was an even MORE perfect villain- as Superman was meant to fight injustice, what's more unjust than this greedy asshole controlling everything and helping no one?

-The only real flaw is a general lack of depth to much of his character- he's so cartoonishly evil it's delightful, but they only make the barest statements as to him liking other people- usually his link to Lena (a sister Pre-Crisis, a daughter Post-Crisis), or near-children like Jerry White (possibly his child with Perry White's wife when Perry was thought dead) or Superboy (Conner). Even Doctor Doom had more humanity to him than this- with elements of human tragedy (his mother's fate, his life of discrimination, etc.) before his caroonish human failings harmed him. But as it stands, Lex barely has more depth than The Joker- he's just "Arrogance" given human form.

Luthor's Brains & Might:
-This Luthor completes the "full bio" (all other incarnations just take stuff off)- the Powersuit wasn't used until the past couple decades, but the scientific genius took place in the 2000s and the business genius comes from 1986. He's now the best of all worlds. Lex with his Armour is a pretty big threat, and VERY expensive, but not as much in a battle (against the entire League, that is- PL 11.5 won't take most of them out). Most of the time, he just relies on some guns, making him much less powerful, but again, Luthor's entire threat is because he's so smart, able to invent almost anything, and he has the best plans of anyone alive. Arresting him after big fights is one thing, but keeping him in prison, and avoiding the labyrinthine conspiracies he creates, is quite another. His INT stat is the highest of anyone in on DC Earth, and one notch lower than Marvel Comics' own Reed & Doom.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Jan 03, 2023 8:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Spectrum wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 5:35 pm Just came across a group that didn't it to The List- the Futurians by Dave Cockrum. Or are they just too obscure and poorly defined?

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Never heard of them. Apparently it was an intended "launching point" for a Marvel book that was never made, so it ended up in the indies for a few issues. I'd have to look them up later.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Ares »

Lex Luthor is pretty much the "iconic" supervillain up there with the Joker, as befits the arch enemies of two of comics biggest icons. Lex Luthor has pretty much become shorthand for "personal nemesis" or "evil person" the same way Superman is shorthand for "moral paragon" or "hero".

Lex is kind of interesting in how he's evolved. Golden Age Luthor was a criminal mastermind who, while intelligent, was happy to use other people's technologies and got by more on being clever. Silver Age Lex was a full on mad scientist who kept coming up with insane scientific devices and plans. Movie Luthor was a self-serving con-man interested in get-rich-quick schemes and doing whatever benefitted him the most. Bronze Age Lex was still a scientist but willing to take a more direct hand in fighting Superman with personal gear. Late 80s Lex sort of went with the Golden Age and Movie versions as a clever criminal willing to use other people's technology and a con-man, but now was a clever businessman who was too slick to be proven evil. Then he eventually gets all of his scientific elements added back in, and we get kind of a perfect version of the character.

Lex Luthor today is kind of what Marvel has been trying to do for years: an evil Tony Stark. Lex has all of Tony's genius, business savvy and charm, but none of his morality. He has no sense of personal responsibility, only a drive for personal satisfaction at the cost of everyone else. He's vengeful, petty, but patient enough to play the long game and do what he can to stay out of jail. He's frustrating because actually trying to prove him guilty of a crime can be darn near impossible at times.

They say every good villain tells you something about the hero. Lex is basically the "And the American Way" part of Superman's credo (the way it should be, "A Better Tomorrow" can go f*** right off) turned to it's most evil. Superman represents the best in America: someone with power and potential that uses that power to help others, who has respect for the law, has compassion for other people while still holding them accountable for their actions, who has pride in his country while being personally humble. Lex is someone who presents as a 'good American' but he doesn't care about anyone but himself. Everyone else exists to feed his interests. He will step on or go through as many people as he needs to get his way. He takes no responsibility for his actions, but demands accolades, respect and glory for the things he does take credit for, even if he didn't actually do them.

Superman is everything an American should try to be, Luthor is an example of what the worst of America can become.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by catsi563 »

Ares wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 7:58 pm Lex Luthor is pretty much the "iconic" supervillain up there with the Joker, as befits the arch enemies of two of comics biggest icons. Lex Luthor has pretty much become shorthand for "personal nemesis" or "evil person" the same way Superman is shorthand for "moral paragon" or "hero".

Lex is kind of interesting in how he's evolved. Golden Age Luthor was a criminal mastermind who, while intelligent, was happy to use other people's technologies and got by more on being clever. Silver Age Lex was a full on mad scientist who kept coming up with insane scientific devices and plans. Movie Luthor was a self-serving con-man interested in get-rich-quick schemes and doing whatever benefitted him the most. Bronze Age Lex was still a scientist but willing to take a more direct hand in fighting Superman with personal gear. Late 80s Lex sort of went with the Golden Age and Movie versions as a clever criminal willing to use other people's technology and a con-man, but now was a clever businessman who was too slick to be proven evil. Then he eventually gets all of his scientific elements added back in, and we get kind of a perfect version of the character.

Lex Luthor today is kind of what Marvel has been trying to do for years: an evil Tony Stark. Lex has all of Tony's genius, business savvy and charm, but none of his morality. He has no sense of personal responsibility, only a drive for personal satisfaction at the cost of everyone else. He's vengeful, petty, but patient enough to play the long game and do what he can to stay out of jail. He's frustrating because actually trying to prove him guilty of a crime can be darn near impossible at times.

They say every good villain tells you something about the hero. Lex is basically the "And the American Way" part of Superman's credo (the way it should be, "A Better Tomorrow" can go f*** right off) turned to it's most evil. Superman represents the best in America: someone with power and potential that uses that power to help others, who has respect for the law, has compassion for other people while still holding them accountable for their actions, who has pride in his country while being personally humble. Lex is someone who presents as a 'good American' but he doesn't care about anyone but himself. Everyone else exists to feed his interests. He will step on or go through as many people as he needs to get his way. He takes no responsibility for his actions, but demands accolades, respect and glory for the things he does take credit for, even if he didn't actually do them.

Superman is everything an American should try to be, Luthor is an example of what the worst of America can become.
Agreed its always been one of the things about lex that youd want superman or Captain Marvel to call him out on, the fact that hes a genius who could cure cancer or created unlimited free power or unlimited free food to feed and house the world

and YET he NEVER does this because hes too arrogant to take the simple step of just doing it, his ego is so blocked by his obessessive need to outshine superman who does all he can to help people with no thought of reward while hes so busy building his fortune, he thinks he should be admired BECAUSE hes rich and it enrages him that superman is richer than him in terms of what matters in life,

Like you said Ares Superman is who we should inspire to be, Luthor is the sad reality of what we could do but choose not to
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Ares »

While I'm not a fan of the recent DC Animated movieverse (for the most part if felt like watchin an animated version of the Nu-52 or Snyderverse, so, you know, no thanks), the Death of Superman and Reign of Supermen movies were fairly solid (even if the League jobbed hard to Doomsday). In the Death of Superman, Lex was updated that they'd just developed a cure for a certain disease, as in a complete 100% single application = total cure type cure.

Lex tells them to make it into a monthly supplement they need to take for the rest of their lives, because curing the disease isn't as important as squeezing every last dollar from people who rely on that medicine to live. It was like the perfect example of callous corporate greed in action.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Ares »

And the insane thing is, that version of Luthor in all of mustache twirling wickedness is STILL less evil than Wakanda, who has a cure for cancer that won't share with anyone.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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greycrusader
Posts: 1179
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 11:25 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by greycrusader »

That Wakanda was courtesy of Reginald Hudlin, and given how he ignored all sorts of Marvel history, let's just write it off as being in a parallel universe sort of thing.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Mercy Graves

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
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MERCY GRAVES
Created By:
Bruce Timm & Paul Dini
First Appearance: Detective Comics #735 (Aug. 1999)
Role: Lex Luthor's Girl Friday, The Kato
PL 9 (129)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 6
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 5 (+11)
Athletics 4 (+10)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+12)
Deception 5 (+8, +10 Attractive)
Expertise (Criminal) 3 (+6)
Expertise (History) 5 (+7)
Expertise (Mythology) 5 (+7)
Expertise (Military) 4 (+6)
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 2 (+5)
Perception 4 (+7)
Stealth 3 (+9)
Vehicles 4 (+8)

Advantages:
Defensive Attack, Equipment 2 (Gun), Evasion, Fast Grab, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
Leaping 1 (15 feet) [1]
Speed 1 (4 mph) [1]
Immunity 1 (Aging) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Gun +10 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +6

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +6, Fortitude +7, Will +5

Complications:
Responsibility (Lex Luthor)- Mercy appears to be a loyal agent of Luthor's.

Total: Abilities: 84 / Skills: 48--24 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 3 / Defenses: 8 (129)

-Mercy Graves was Lex Luthor's "Girl Friday" in Superman: The Animated Series, and the concept (a pretty, smartly-dressed lady assassin/henchman) proved good enough that they were like "why NOT put her into the comics?". Unlike many characters, it only took a few years, with her showing up in No Man's Land crossover books as Luthor's right hand. Later, another female bodyguard named Hope shows up- it's suggested at points that they may be Amazons, as they have exchanged blows with Superman and recognize Circe on-sight. However, this is ignored and Hope disappears. Like in the show, Mercy is less amoral than Luthor, occasionally showing sympathy for Superman. She is in the backdrop of a couple of 52 issues, and shows inclinations of wanting to reform in the newer Infinity Inc. book, but quits the team after nearly beating a man to death, accepting that she's not "hero material". Cry For Justice officially states that she is an Amazon, but it's casually mentioned by Prometheus. But for the most part is barely above "henchman" in importance, given little backstory or motivation.

-This is all a very “DC” thing to do- introduce a character from a property a lot of people knew… but alter every aspect of the character so it loses whatever crossover appeal it might have had, then introduce a big secret backstory, only forget to actually make a big deal of it.

-Mercy is an advanced version of her DCAU self, having an Amazon's strength and toughness- this pushes her to PL 9-ish stats all over.
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