Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (General Zod! Kru-El! Jax-Ur! Lex Luthor!)

Post by Ares »

Not sure if you want to consider it a power stunt or not, but in at least one comic she regularly used the gateway extra on Teleportation to do stuff like this:

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As for the whole memory loss / time travel thing, what happened was she went back in time a second time after her first time, only this time there was a disturbance in the timestream and she lost her memory while in the past, only able to recall brief bits over time. It did show her innate heroism as she used her abilities for good regardless of her memory, and the idea was that she'd live out all of her adventures as Superwoman in the past while slowly regaining her memories.

Meanwhile in the future, several years after she'd left, her boyfriend of that era was in front of a statue of her and Superman, talking to others about her and how time travel was now much more strongly regulated because of the dangers involved. If you couldn't reliably send and bring people back, then you would just contaminate the time stream and strand people in very different times, so there was no more 'casual' time travel. He explained that Kristin served as Superwoman for years until she vanished shortly after Superman's career ended. Kristin then shows up, much to her boyfriend's surprise and joy, and we get a montage shot of the kind of adventures she had as she brings him up to speed.

The idea seemed to be bring her story full circle while leaving the possibility for more Superwoman stories in the present. But then Crisis happened and Kristin was wiped from continuity, so we never got to see those stories.

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Lord Satanis

Post by Jabroniville »

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... is that just Magneto's helmet?

LORD SATANIS
Created By:
Marv Wolfman & Curt Swan
First Appearance: Action Comics #527 (Jan. 1982)
Role: Evil Future Wizard

-Marv Wolfman did a lot of Superman stuff- before and after the Crisis. A lot of them are weird ideas like this- Lord Satanis, the evil wizard from Earht's future. He domimnates part of the planet one million years from now, where human society has become a medieval-style world once more. His main rival is Ambra, a good wizard who rules the world- Satanis leads a revolt against Ambra and kills him, but a "Runestone" that gives great power is sent into the past. Satanis & Syrene, Ambra's daughter, are equal in power and so enter a marriage of convenience to rule the world together, but both scheme to gain the Runestone, involving Superman because the spell requires an "invulnerable body". Syrene is seemingly killed, but returns from Limbo and banishes Satanis to Hell, then casts the Runestone further away to buy herself some time. Satanis returns, having made a deal with the Lord of Hell, and goes to the 14th Century, where the Runestone was- he & Syrene battle and Superman is drawn in and split into two halves with his powers split between them.

-The invulnerable Superman was taken away while the other returned to his own time and was beaten by a new villain named Jackhammer. Both Supermen were killed by Syrene's spell, but Satanis inhabited the dead body of the invulnerable one and killed her, which resurrected Clark Kent in the future- Clark then went to time traveller Rip Hunter and went to the past, where he fought his invulnerable half (still possessed), and Superman's personality won out, flinging Satanis free. The two Supermen touched and combined once more, and Satanis was punched back to his own era. Satanis never appears again outside of the background during Crisis on Infinite Earths. Just a weird story involving a lot of shenanigans- borderline Silver Age in how it works, but a bit more filled with death and things written under drugs.
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Lord Satanus

Post by Jabroniville »

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Hee- from a Brother Blood rip-off to a 2010s Edgelord Guillermo Del Toro design.

LORD SATANUS (aka Colin Thornton)
Created By:
Jerry Ordway & Tom Grummett
First Appearance: The Adventures of Superman #493 (Aug. 1992)
Role: Generic Demon Lord
Group Affiliations: Hell

-Another "Lord Satanis", this guy is the sister of Blaze, making him the son of Shazam. He created a drug called "DMN" that turned people into demons, sending it to various parts of the globe where people were desperate- during the "Fall of Metropolis", he sent it there. At one point he attempted to restore his beloved city, but later tried to capture the "soul" of the entirety of Metropolis, only for Superman to offer his own in exchange, then defeat him using a young psychic's help. Later, he and Blaze attempted to take the throne of Hell from Neron using souls who were promised a shot at redemption if they helped him... but he revealed that his plan all along was to use them to spread a "plague" through hell that turned Neron's agents human.

-He boasted of this to Neron and the two fought a magical battle- Satanus was about to lose, but triggered his trap by speaking "Shazam" and instantly turned all the demons human, depowering Neron to a humble normal demon, then killing him. Blah de blah blah, he ruled Hell alongside Blaze, but when Black Alice came along for a piece of her soul and tried to absorb his power, Blaze stepped in and took it for herself, and overthrew him as ruler of Hell. Lord Satanus was left as a withered husk at her side.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Lex Luthor! Bibbo! Superwoman! Lord Satanis!)

Post by Ares »

Weird as it may sound, I vastly prefer Pre-Crisis Lord Satanis over the Post-Crisis Lord Satanus, and by extension his sister Blaze. While I appreciate that Ordway worked hard to bring back as much of the classic Marvel Family Mythos as quickly as he could, his need to tie so much of his Superman work to the Marvels was just weird, whether it was having Satanus and Blaze be Shazam's children, having Gangbuster show up in Fawcett, or having Bibbo's brother show up in Fawcett to help Mary Marvel out. I know writers like to re-use their creations, but sheesh.

Blaze and Satanus themselves just seemed like weird additions to the Superman mythos, being these demonic brother and sister pair who tried to mess with Superman occasionally, with Satanus even having a human identity to corrupt people via demonic drugs. I understand the desire to pit Superman against something where his powers are less effective, he's out of his depth and you can showcase the strength of his spirit / morality saving the day, but generic demon lords just seem an odd fit for him.

The time traveling wizard from the future that needs an indestructible body for part of his scheme is at least fun in a Silver Age-y sort of way, and I honestly prefer his design over Satanus. With a few tweaks, Satanis could be an interesting alternative to Mordru as a time-travelling mega-wizard, one I could easily see being a fun threat for Superman, Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel, etc.
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Re: Maaldor the Darklord

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Jabroniville wrote: Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:44 am Image

"Oh, but I am not your friend, mortal... I am Maaldor! I have lived... forever. I cannot recall a time when I was not-- Mayhap I was born at the instant of creation. I know not."

MAALDOR THE DARKLORD
Created By:
Paul Kupperberg & Curt Swan
First Appearance: DC Comics Presents #56 (April 1983)
Role: Dark Lord (I mean, it's IN HIS NAME!)
Group Affiliations: None

-Maaldor the Darklord is a space-based menace boasting of having existed since the dawn of creation in a parallel dimension. He took over his entire world, but grew bored, eventually summoning Superman & Power Girl to him just to fight. The two heroes were unable to win despite their power, but Superman challenged Maaldor that he'd never win in the long run thanks to his own dark soul, and Maaldor accepted the challenge to "search for my own essence". However, what he saw drove him crazy- eons of life flashing before him and all his energy being used up. He attacked the Green Lantern Corps, attempting to drain the entire Power Battery- the GL Arrkis used multiple GLs' rings to drain him, with the resulting explosion apparently killing them both. So basically, this story was written on drugs!

-However, Maaldor was merely sent back to his home dimension- in Crisis on Infinite Earths, he is mysteriously chosen alongside Mirror Master & Icicle (oh wait, he's one of THOSE guys!) to go back in time to prevent Krona's experiement that creates the Anti-Monitor millennia ago- Krona senses their arrival and effortlessly kills all three. Methinks Marv Wolfman just thought Maaldor was dumb and wanted rid of him- he really stands out alongside those two street-level super-villains, dying alongside them.

-Maaldor is only barely before the Crisis, and is more powerful than Superman & Power Girl combined- he's also immortal and ageless, shoots energy from his eyes, and can maybe see inwardly to view all time itself.
Maaldor was kind of interesting in that he was an opponent Pre-Crisis Superman just could not beat in a straight up fight. He was essentially a Beyonder-type individual with a magical / barbarian theme, as he had vast reality warping powers that, again, Superman was no direct match for.

I own an issue of DC Comics Presents that was apparently Maaldor's last appearance, and it involved the odd trio of Superman, the Phantom Stranger and the Joker of all people. Apparently Maaldor's encounter with Superman and Power Girl resulted in Maaldor becoming a dimension unto himself, like I said basically becoming a Beyonder or Dormmamu level entity. He could only briefly interact with the main DCU through dimensional tears, resulting in the incident with the Green Lanterns and an incident where Superman and Madam Xanadu, both of which involved Maaldor's growing madness trying to spread to Earth-1, but being forced back each time.

Well, by this point Maaldor has gone completely insane, requiring the Phantom Stranger to intervene, first by helping Superman, and then by having Superman recruit the Joker for help, because they needed his insight regarding insanity against a literally insane dimension. Well, Superman and the Joker enter Maaldor's dimension (the Stranger had to find his own, separate way in) and sure enough, the Joker is able to help Superman navigate the insanity of the realm due to being crazy himself. When Maaldor starts fighting Superman directly, well, Superman doesn't do any better. Superman is getting absolutely destroyed while the Joker watches . . . and then the Phantom Stranger shows up and reveals why he had Superman bring the Joker along.

Superman and the Phantom Stranger are rational beings. Maaldor is completely insane. Superman and the Stranger's abilities aren't effective in a universe where the physical laws are determined by literal insanity. But the Joker is ALSO insane, and with the Stranger's help, is able to tap into Maaldor's power and become basically a godlike entity himself. He's so powerful that when Superman punches him (thinking the Joker is just another one of Maaldor's tricks), that not only is the Joker unharmed, he can casually finger-flick Superman away. The Joker toys with Superman a bit, all while secretly leading Superman to the 'core' of Maaldor's existence, basically a man-sized star where Maaldor's intelligence resides. The Joker then occupies Maaldor's attention long enough for Superman to regain control of himself (Maaldor had been wearing away at his sanity and almost drove Supes mad as well) and then use his heat vision on Maaldor's intellect/core. He basically destroys Maaldor's intelligence, resulting in the dimension becoming a 'normal' universe.

At first Superman is worried that he's killed Maaldor, but the Phantom Stranger assures him that Maaldor lives, but the maddness that consumed his intelligence is destroyed, resulting in Maaldor's mind essentially being wiped clean, allowing the dimension to develop from scratch and have a fresh start. Superman likens what he did to 'giving a cosmic entity a cosmic lobotomy', and still isn't happy with what happened. The Stranger assures Superman that Maaldor's attempts to enter their own universe were, in their own way, a cry for help, and that if Superman hadn't done this, then Maaldor would have died and likely taken Earth with him.

The Joker then decides it's time to use his new cosmic power to kill Superman, only to hurt his hand when he punches the back of Superman's head. The Stranger explains that the Joker could make use of Maaldor's power because of their shared insanity. Now that Maaldor wasn't insane anymore, the Joker was powerless.

So in a weird way, Maaldor's existence does kind of mirror the Beyonder storyline. Both were cosmic beings who grew bored and then summoned powerful beings from Earth to entertain them and give them insight into themselves. Both were eventually driven to acts of madness as time went on, requiring heroes to stop them. Eventually, both are confronted by beings wielding power derived from themselves (Molecule Man / Joker) and both are 'killed', but their deaths result in a new universe being born.

Granted, that was before the Beyonder got retconned to Hell and back, but there is some parallel between the two.

Which makes it all the weirder that Wolfman would bring Maaldor back from essentially cosmic brain death only to kill him off by a being that . . . well, frankly, should have had no chance against him. How the hell someone can go from casually smacking around Pre-Crisis Superman to getting killed by an exploding computer is just bizarre. I can only imagine that Wolfman REALLY didn't like the guy, or wanted to keep the guy from showing up in the Post-Crisis DCU.

Which is hilarious because a Post Crisis version of Maaldor would appear in issue 40 of the Will Payton Starman, now a cosmic being who conquered galaxies until the Green Lanterns imprisoned him. He escaped, but was reduced to the point where he had to possess people or objects and drain energy from them to maintain himself. Starman eventually caused him to discorporate and sent his essence out into space, where he was never heard from again.

I've said it before, but frankly? Maaldor's kind of fun as this cosmic barbarian conqueror, with the only limit being that he's really too powerful to be a regular threat for most heroes. Though he could work as a kind of Dormammu-level threat where they usually have to keep him in his own dimension.
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Reactron

Post by Jabroniville »

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REACTRON (Benjamin Martin Krull)
Created By:
Paul Kupperberg & Carmine Infantino
First Appearance: The Daring New Adventures of Supergirl #8 (June 1983)
Role: Forgotten Villain
Group Affiliations: The Suicide Squad, The Nuclear Legion
PL 9 (146)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA -- AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 2 (+5)
Expertise (Criminal) 5 (+6)
Expertise (Soldier) 4 (+5)
Intimidation 3 (+6)
Perception 2 (+4)

Advantages:
Ranged Attack 4, Startle

Powers:
"Living Energy"
Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
Protection 8 [8]
Nuclear Blast 10 (Feats: Split) [21]
Flight 7 (250 mph) [14]
Immortality 1 [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Nuclear Blast +8 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +8, Fortitude --, Will +5

Complications:
Enemy (Tempest)- Reactron's human form was killed by Tempest of the Doom Patrol, and he now seeks revenge.
Enemy (Kryptonians)- For whatever reason, Reactron just tends to fight Kryptonians now.
Vulnerable (Suit Ruptures)- Ballistics and sharp objects can rupture Reactron's suit, immediately taking him out of the fight as he explodes.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 16--8 / Advantages: 5 / Powers: 75 / Defenses: 8 (146)

-Reactron is a Supergirl enemy created very, very Pre-Crisis- he was a sergeant in the US army during the Vietnam War, alongside the future Tempest (a Doom Patrol member). He massacred an innocent village, tramatizing his subordinate, whose powers then manifested. Krullen was seemingly killed by an energy blast, and Tempest went AWOL. However, Krullen had instead been transformed into a being who could fire Radiation Blasts. He resurfaces years later to fight the Doom Patrol, but then goes on to fighting Supergirl (fitting, as it was in her own book).

-Post-Crisis, Krull was reimagined a tad and debuted fighting the Doom Patrol & Power Girl (standing in for Supergirl). He explodes after overloading on Negative Woman's energy, but resurfaces as a member of the Suicide Squad- Deadshot shoots holes in his containment suit, causing him to go critical. He reappears again as a member of the Nuclear Legion in The Battle for Blüdhaven in 2006 alongside Mister Nitro, Geiger, Nuclear, Professor Radium, and Neutron, where the team Freedom's Ring apparently kilsl him. He reappears AGAIN with a Gold Kryptonite Heart during the New Krypton story-arc, teaming up with Metallo to serve General Sam Lane against the Kryptonians on Earth. Lex Luthor messes with his body chemistry, and when Reactron kills himself, the chain reaction destroys all of New Krypton and the vast majority of its 100,000 inhabitants.

-Reactron is a pretty powerful PL 9 guy, doing pretty solid damage, but he's ultimately an easily-blown-up jobber. I mean, every story featuring him showcases his death!
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Lex Luthor! Bibbo! Superwoman! Lord Satanis!)

Post by Ares »

Reactron also had an alternate updated look that I think was a lot cooler than the one they settled on.

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Re: Maaldor the Darklord

Post by Jabroniville »

Ares wrote: Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:42 pm
Maaldor was kind of interesting in that he was an opponent Pre-Crisis Superman just could not beat in a straight up fight. He was essentially a Beyonder-type individual with a magical / barbarian theme, as he had vast reality warping powers that, again, Superman was no direct match for.

I own an issue of DC Comics Presents that was apparently Maaldor's last appearance, and it involved the odd trio of Superman, the Phantom Stranger and the Joker of all people. Apparently Maaldor's encounter with Superman and Power Girl resulted in Maaldor becoming a dimension unto himself, like I said basically becoming a Beyonder or Dormmamu level entity. He could only briefly interact with the main DCU through dimensional tears, resulting in the incident with the Green Lanterns and an incident where Superman and Madam Xanadu, both of which involved Maaldor's growing madness trying to spread to Earth-1, but being forced back each time.

Well, by this point Maaldor has gone completely insane, requiring the Phantom Stranger to intervene, first by helping Superman, and then by having Superman recruit the Joker for help, because they needed his insight regarding insanity against a literally insane dimension. Well, Superman and the Joker enter Maaldor's dimension (the Stranger had to find his own, separate way in) and sure enough, the Joker is able to help Superman navigate the insanity of the realm due to being crazy himself. When Maaldor starts fighting Superman directly, well, Superman doesn't do any better. Superman is getting absolutely destroyed while the Joker watches . . . and then the Phantom Stranger shows up and reveals why he had Superman bring the Joker along.

Yeah, that seems like a pretty fun Pre-Crisis tale- one using the Joker perfectly well, while being in character. It seems like the kind of thing written to justify a "Superman/Joker team-up", even possibly working backwards to that end, but I dig it. I can only assume Wolfman wanted him dead, like I suspected, lol.
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Bloodsport (DuBois)

Post by Jabroniville »

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... Wait. A New 52 design... that's BETTER than the original?

I... I'm scared...


BLOODSPORT I (Robert DuBois)
Created By:
John Byrne
First Appearance: Superman #4 (April 1987)
Role: Gun-Toting Maniac
PL 9 (121)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+6)
Deception 3 (+6)
Expertise (Military) 2 (+2)
Expertise (Criminal) 4 (+4)
Insight 2 (+4)
Intimidation 3 (+6)
Investigation 2 (+3)
Perception 4 (+5)
Stealth 1 (+5)
Vehicles 1 (+6)

Advantages:
Equipment 5 (Arsenal), Ranged Attack 5

Powers:
"Teleporter Pack" (Extras: Removable) [34]
Variable (Any Weapon) 6 (42 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Guns +10 (+4 Ranged Damage, DC 19)
Automatic Weapons +8 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Powerful Lasers +8 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +4, Fortitude +5, Will +4

Complications:
Enemy (Superman)
Disabled (Mentally Unstable)- Robert has tremendous guilt after his brother was maimed in Vietnam taking Robert's place after he fled due to cowardice.

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 34 / Defenses: 10 (121)

-Bloodsport is a Vietnam draft evader who had a mental breakdown after learning that his brother went in his stead and lost his arms and legs. Going insane from the guilt, Robert DuBois (really? Hadda use the name of a prominent black civil rights advocate?) was eventually hired by agents of Lex Luthor to try and kill Superman. He was given a high-tech arsenal including a teleporter that brought weapons to him, and a gun that fired Kryptonite needles, which... wait, if he evaded the draft why is he a bad-ass military guy? In any case, he took the ridiculously Iron Age-y name of Bloodsport, more or less predicting that movement by 2-4 YEARS, and mowed down dozens of innocent people. Superman was initially weakened by the needles, but even LUTHOR was angered by the murders, but only because this drew too much attention to the operation. Superman broke the teleporter, but Bloodsport threatened to blow up his power-pack, blowing up ten square miles of Metropolis. Jimmy Olsen saved the day by confronting Robert with his crippled brother Michael- Robert then collapsed in grief.

-Much later, Bloodsport & Deadshot got into a scrap, split up by Superman & Batman. He pretty well vanishes for the entire 1990s, despite being essentially PERFECT for them, and gets to be a Journeyman Villain in the 2000s, messing about with Steel, and he fought the second Bloodsport (Alexander Trent). The two were placed in a boxing match to try and deflate the racial tension in the prison- one Bloodsport being white and the other black. Superman was asked to referee the match to ensure safety, but a riot still broke out, and Robert was killed trying to make a jailbreak. The character appears in the Suicide Squad movie, played by Idris Elba.

-Bloodsport is a build constructed using the incredibly elaborate manner of taking my Punisher Villain Template and slapping a Variable Weapon onto it- he can come up with just about anything, pushing him to PL 9, but he's not overly that tough otherwise.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jan 06, 2023 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Lex Luthor! Bibbo! Superwoman! Lord Satanis!)

Post by Davies »

Bloodsport is a Vietnam draft evader who had a mental breakdown after learning that his brother went in his stead and lost his arms and legs. Going insane from the guilt, Robert DuBois (really? Hadda use the name of a prominent black civil rights advocate?) was eventually hired by agents of Lex Luthor to try and kill Superman. He was given a high-tech arsenal including a teleporter that brought weapons to him, and a gun that fired Kryptonite needles, which... wait, if he evaded the draft why is he a bad-ass military guy?
Your guess is as good as mine how he got this way -- I suspect 'roids -- but an important part of his original story was that he was posing as "a veteran on a rampage." So he had to look the part.
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Bloodsport (Trent)

Post by Jabroniville »

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BLOODSPORT II (Alexander Trent)
Created By:
Karl Kesel & Barry Kitson
First Appearance: The Adventures of Superman #507 (Dec. 1993)
Role: Gun-Toting Maniac, Racist
PL 9 (129)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+6)
Deception 3 (+6)
Expertise (Military) 2 (+2)
Expertise (Criminal) 4 (+4)
Insight 2 (+4)
Intimidation 3 (+6)
Investigation 2 (+3)
Perception 4 (+5)
Stealth 1 (+5)
Vehicles 1 (+6)

Advantages:
Equipment 5 (Arsenal), Ranged Attack 5

Powers:
"Teleporter Pack" Variable (Any Weapon) 6 [42]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Guns +10 (+4 Ranged Damage, DC 19)
Automatic Weapons +8 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Powerful Lasers +8 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +4, Fortitude +5, Will +4

Complications:
Hatred (Non-Whites)- Trent is an avowed, open racist.

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 42 / Defenses: 10 (129)

-Bloodsport II is a fanatical racist, replacing the first Bloodsport only six years after his creation. He wielded the same gear as the black original, ironically swiping his name. However, he grafted the teleporter into his body, allowing him to summon weapons whenver he liked. During racial tensions at Stryker's Island, both Bloodsports are made to box each other to try and deflate tensions, but Bloodsport II cheats by teleporting weapons into his hands and Bloodsport I is killed. However, the racist gets his just desserts, as he is burned alive in his cell by the Aryan Brotherhood for showing such weakness.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Lex Luthor! Superwoman! Lord Satanis! Bloodsport!)

Post by greycrusader »

I imagine Luther arranged for the Bloodsport-tech wielders to be suitably trained and prepped for their roles in distracting Superman.

Interestingly, the Superman Family has gone up against a few nuclear-powered foes over the years, the most notable being Neutron, who was basically a villainous version of Wildfire (from the LSH); he was the only one with any longevity as a recurring bad guy for Clark, but several others (original Atomic Skull, Cyclotron I, Reactron) were also able to hold their own against him.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Lex Luthor! Superwoman! Lord Satanis! Bloodsport!)

Post by Ken »

greycrusader wrote: Fri Jan 06, 2023 5:05 pm I imagine Luther arranged for the Bloodsport-tech wielders to be suitably trained and prepped for their roles in distracting Superman.

Interestingly, the Superman Family has gone up against a few nuclear-powered foes over the years, the most notable being Neutron, who was basically a villainous version of Wildfire (from the LSH); he was the only one with any longevity as a recurring bad guy for Clark, but several others (original Atomic Skull, Cyclotron I, Reactron) were also able to hold their own against him.
The Atom Man from the radio (and then World's Finest #271) was probably the first of Superman's atomic foes. He was also the first kryptonite powered enemy.
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Bloodthirst

Post by Jabroniville »

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BLOODTHIRST (Real Name Unknown)
Created By:
Louise Simonson & Jon Bodanove
First Appearance: The Man of Steel #27 (Nov. 1993)
Role: Demonic Monster

-Yes, BLOODTHIRST. But it's 1993, so you know stuff like this was coming. Though it's funny from the person who got drummed out of the New Mutants comic by Rob Liefeld to be creating such things. Louise Simonson & X-Factor co-artist Jon Bogdanove created this guy- a demon who orchestrated massacres in various locatoins. He got the similarly-named Bloodsport to do some, and Hi-Tech to do others. Superman stopped both villains and then fought Bloodthirst, who abandoned the battle suggesting it was just an exercise. I... guess he never reappeared? The weirdo S&M makeup/leather suit might be part of it.

-Bloodthirst was an ageless demon (probably) with strength at least near Superman's. Bloodthirst also possesses human bodies to manifest on Earth.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Lex Luthor! Superwoman! Lord Satanis! Bloodsport!)

Post by Ares »

Okay, it’s been quite a few pages since this initial discussion, but I’ve been busy with holiday stuff and haven’t been able to respond. However, I do want to give my final thoughts on the matter and respond to both EternalPhoenix and greycrusader here in one post.

This is going to be long. I go full Ares rant mode here, and this is going to be boring for most of you. So for anyone uninterested in this debate, just skip this post and enjoy Jab’s exploration of the Superman mythos.

For the two guys I’m responding to, I’ve read through both of your posts and I remain unchanged on my opinion. If anything some of the points you both tried to make, to me, just revealed further hypocricy on the issue. It’s unlikely that any of our views are going to be shifted here, and I don’t want this debate to clutter up Jab’s thread more than it already has. So I’m going to give my final thoughts and we’re going to consider the debate closed unless you want to continue it in another thread or you want to approach me privately for further discussion.

To be clear, this is a philosophical debate between three adults, and I don’t have any ill will towards either of you. I might disagree with both on these points, but it doesn’t impact the respect I have for either of you or negatively affect any ‘standing’ you both have here. I might be the guy running the show but my philosophy and morals are not Echoes philosophy and morals, and we’re all free to have our own takes on things so long as it’s done respectfully.

So, with that said:
EternalPhoenix wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:57 pm
Ares wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:08 pm It's not fun. I want comics to be fun again.
Ares. My brother. Good and decent man that as far as I know you are. Have you considered that the definition of what is fun is a very subjective thing?
I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you’re not intentionally trying to be condescending right now, because it’s really easy to read that into your words here. A tip for debating people in the future “Have you considered” almost always comes off as condescending when paired with an obvious statement like “fun is subjective”, because it implies the person you’re speaking to is so closedminded (or worse, simpleminded) that such an obvious thing never occurred to them. Even when done in good faith, it’s a bad way to start a dialogue.

That said, yes, I’m fully aware that ‘fun’ is a subjective term. That’s why I don’t begrudge people for enjoying things I don’t personally care for, so long as it doesn’t hurt anyone. It’s no skin off my back if someone enjoys Twilight, professional wrestling or green beans. I might critique creative works I don’t care for when it comes to presentation, story structure, writing craft and the like, but if someone genuinely enjoys those things I won’t tell them not to.
That broader context (like what those of European decent have done to, well, most of the other places people come from) is part and parcel of why making certain characters white can be problematic in some eyes?
No, I haven’t considered indulging someone who decides to use grievences, real and imagined, from the past to justify their performative outrage over something that harms no one. If anything I like to point out such pearl clutching as the power grab that it is.
No, it's not fair.


Glad we agree.
These aren't robots writing the stories, my man. They're people, who believe in things.
The problem is that I don’t believe for a second that the vast majority of the people writing these particular stories have anything resembling good intentions or genuine aspirations to tell a good story or entertain people.


Comics have always been full of left leaning politics, and left leaning politics have changed over the past several decades.

The stories they're making now do speak to people who have felt unrepresented. Ms. Marvel became as big a hit as she did not just because it was a good comic book, but because it didn't shy away from the fact that she is a Pakistani Muslim girl in America. Miles Morales became popular not only because he's a good character, but for all the ways in which he's not Peter Parker which includes being unapologetically Afro-Latino. The Black Panther movie was a hit not just because it was good, but because it hammered a spot most movies never hit. Black and proud.
You seem to think I have some kind of issue with non-white representation in the media I partake. If that’s the case, let me clarify: I do not now, nor have I ever had a problem with seeing non-white characters in my fiction. I’ve never had any trouble enjoying media with people who look different from me, so long as said media didn’t attack me or tear down things I enjoy unfairly.

I was there when Milestone Comics came out in the 90s. I bought Icon, Static, Hardware and the Blood Syndicate when they came out. I watched the Static Shock cartoon. I read the Jademan translations of Chinese manhua back in the day and picked up later ones that introduced me to Heaven Sword/Dragon Saber, one of my favorite stories of all time. I was watching fan-subs of Kamen Rider Kuuga before the official release. I collected the original run of Shang Chi. I’ve been reading and watching stories about Japanese protagonists in manga and anime since I was a kid.

Getting more non-male, non-white, non-straight faces in comics, movies and cartoons has never been an issue with me. It’s the execution I have problems with, like when creators replace existing heroes and give their costumes / names / powers to “more diverse” characters. In almost all of those cases, it’s a train wreck because they’re treating comics as some kind of zero sum game where you can’t add more non-white / non-male characters without first getting rid of some white and male first. That’s not adding to the comics landscape, that’s replacing one thing with another, often inferior, thing that gets propped up by playing identity politics.

Writers don’t want to put in the work to create a Black Panther, an Icon, a Static or a Storm. It’s easier to just take an existing hero, kick out the character people actually like, and then replace him with a more diverse face and call it a day. Not realizing that the character they just replace had fans, a history and a personality, had things that made that superheroic identity have meaning. Without that person in the costume, it’s just the costume being worn by a stranger, often with no more thought or care beyond “they’re X race, possibly female, and they like to sleep with Y people”. They’re literally banking on the hard work of others and the popularity of the previous character to sell their current character, who at best will usually have “generic snarky protagonist” personality. These people want instant success and popularity instead of working for it, so they’ll just take some other character’s popularity.

It's lazy. It’s disrespectful and disingenous. And it’s a real easy way to avoid criticism because they can claim that whomever doesn’t like the change is just some type of “ist” or “phobe”. The truth is usually some combination of people actually liking the previous character or being able to recognize the pandering that’s going on. Especially when people make it into an actual culture war and treat replacing “pale, male and stale” characters as some kind of victory in and of itself.

I am all for seeing more diverse heroes, but there’s a right and a wrong way to do it.

I'm not saying the replacement of Danny Rand is good. It's not. It's hamfisted bullshit.
Glad we agree.
But I get where it's coming from. Danny himself was created in the kung fu craze of the 70s, as a white guy who's power was being really good at kung fu. Some folks are only gonna see that, because well, that's the start of the idea. Everything after is justification for that idea being okay. Like, seriously. K'un L'un is literally in Tibet, albeit a pocket dimension. It's Asian, my dude. No, that's not a fair assessment. I know. But it's the one most people are going to make the first time they hear about the place. Especially since they practice kung fu there. Look, I like Danny but if we're pretending that he was any less of a cliche stereotype back in the day than Shang Chi and Luke Cage, man...I mean, yes. He's changed. Decades of new stories. Retcons to remove more problematic or just plain racist elements and make him and his world more interesting. But the core of his story and who he is has not changed, only the set dressing and background elements. He's still the kid whose rich daddy dragged him to China, where he learned superpowered kung fu and decided to become a superhero with said kung fu. Yeah, it's still unfair. I know it's more complicated that that. Only comics nerds care, man. Seriously.
Nowhere in there do you actually explain why any of this is “problematic”. Heroes going to far off and remote places to gain training, wisdom or power is something as old as mythology, whether it was Gilgamesh’s world spanning quest for immortality, Sun Wukong traveling to a secret Taoist temple, the various Greek heroes getting trained by Chiron, Odin traveling to whole other worlds to receive wisdom, etc. These places were far off, but within their own cultures.

Then as the world got bigger, as they got exposed to other cultures, those cultures started influencing each other, and those other cultures became the far off and remote places to go receive training or to adventure in. You especially saw this in Chinese fiction after Buddhism began influencing the nation, with India becoming this place to receive esoteric training, etc.

Since it’s been going on for thousands of years, it’s no surprise American writers had their characters go to distant places to receive training they couldn’t at home and then return home to use those abilities to fight evil.

So again, why is this problematic?

If the reason is anything along the lines of “historical oppression”, “colonialism”, “cultural appropriation” or anything similar, then no. Those are not valid explanations, for multiple reasons. For one thing ‘cultural appropriation’ does not exist. The idea that you need a culture’s permission to use them as a part of fiction is silly, given other cultures in the world certainly don’t have a problem writing about America. I mean, who do you go to get such permission from? It gets further murky when there are things that developed naturally in different cultures on their own and then some cultures “claim” it as being “theirs”. Things like black people claiming dreadlocks as a ‘black’ invention when it was also developed in multiple cultures on their own, including Native American and Nordic cultures. I also don’t feel it applies to things like clothing, otherwise everyone wearing bluejeans in the world today are appropriating cowboy culture.

Beyond that, it takes some weird, collectivist mental gymnastics to make one white person going to one part of Asia to somehow embody all crimes of every white person against every Asian person. One of the worst things you can do is treat someone as being a representative for an entire culture instead of . . . you know, an individual. Because then otherwise any crime committed by even one person becomes an act of aggression by an entire culture against an entire culture, which just leads to an endless cycle of grievance and strife. It results in people constantly bringing up past grievances and never moving past them regardless of what steps have been made culturally to improve things, because anytime someone with a skin color they don’t like does something their perceive as a cultural crime, it’s just another example of historical crimes being perpetuated in the modern day and not simply one individual doing something to another individual. It becomes a cycle without end because people are more comfortable holding onto past hurt than actually trying to move forward.

It's also weird that it only seems to apply to certain characters. Iron Fist, Tarzan, the Phantom, Amazing Man, the Green Lama, Snake-Eyes, these guys get called out as “Mighty Whiteys” all the time for getting trained by people of a different ethnicity than them.

So why isn’t it a problem for, say, Batman? Or Daredevil? Or Wolverine? Or heck, Elektra? Why is it okay for the Greek woman to get training in Japanese martial arts and go around doing ninja stuff? Why is Wolverine’s appreciation for Japanese culture seen as a sign of respect rather than cultural appropriation? Why is it okay that Batman went to China and Japan as part of his quest to master all martial arts?

And why does it only seem to be a problem if white people do it?

Ben Turner, the Bronze Tiger, went off to China to get trained by an Asian mentor and became one of the world’s greatest martial artists alongside Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva. So why is it problematic for Richard, a white guy, and not a problem for Ben?

Why was it okay for pre-retcon T’Challa to go out in the world, learn American science, master it better than his teachers, and then come home to make his land into a technological paradise for him to defend as the Black Panther?

Why is it okay for Samurai Jack to go to other nations, master their arts as good or better than his teachers, then return home to fight evil? Why is it okay for the Japanese man to learn Chinese kung fu, especially with the history of Japan invading China and the atrocities Japan committed against China during WWII? Jack is never brought up as a problematic character despite playing the “Mighty Whitey” trope to a ‘t’?

It’s especially weird when there are countless examples of this happening in real life.

Bass Reeves, one of the first black lawmen in America, spent time living with Native Americans, learning their tracking techniques and using them to become one of the most badass US marshals in history. Somehow this isn’t seen as any kind of cultural appropriation.

Carlos and Hélio Gracie were a pair of Brazilian brothers who studied under a Japanese master and then developed the martial art that’s popularly today known as Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. The pair are heralded as innovators and martial arts legends rather than thieves profiting off of what they learned from Japan.

Jim Kelly studied Chinese Kung Fu and several forms of Japanese Karate under several different teachers, and used those skills to become an action movie star and teacher of his own school of dojos, even getting to star in Bruce Lee’s Enter the Dragon. Again, never brought up as any kind of problem.

And speaking of Bruce Lee, Lee had to fight to be able to train non-Asian students. Literally, there was an official match he had to win in order to get Asian-led martial arts schools to stop harassing him for taking white and black students. Lee felt that anyone who came to him willing to learn and put the effort in was worthy of being taught, and he had to get into a martial arts match to defend his convictions.

Chuck Norris learned his martial arts during his time in the military while stationed in Korea, and trained with teachers there in Tang Soo Doto develop the foundation for his martial arts style, which would eventually include several different flavors of karate, kung fu, judo Brazilian jiu-jitsu and many others.

Anthony Kelly (no relation to Jim) is a white Australian who has trained in over a dozen Asian martial arts, including ninjutsu, and holds many world records for things up to and including arrow catching.

So if we want our fiction to reflect the world we live in, white guys learning Asian martial arts, including going to Asia to learn them, is a very real thing. And if it isn’t problematic for any of the guys listed above, white, black or Asian, then it shouldn’t be a problem for Danny, Snake-Eyes or the rest.
Mighty Whitey isn't a problem in isolation, just like how having characters be white and male isn't a problem in isolation. It's when several dozen (or hundred, or thousand) writers all have the same idea that it gets to be a problem.
Correction: The Mighty Whitey isn’t a problem, period. Neither is having characters being white male at all, regardless of how many of them there are. It’d be like saying that it’s a problem that so many Japanese heroes are Asian and male or why the Shonen genre is full of screaming teenagers.

People are allowed to create what they want to create. Their success and longevity comes from the effort put into them (both in terms of writing and promotion) and the cultural tastes of the time.
That's what the modern changes to characters that have existed for a long time are about attempting to course correct for.
Except ‘course correct’ again implies that it was some mistake that these characters were originally created as white, which frankly, is racist.
That's why Cyborg got promoted to the Justice League for a while, why Wally West became Black and is now two people, why Sam Wilson was Captain America for a while, and why Kamala and Miles are still being pushed. Yes, sometimes it's hamfisted bullshit like with Riri Williams and Danny's replacement (I don't care what his name is). But the way I see it is that writers aren't going to get it right every time and eventually the original character takes the role back anyway, so who cares?
I do. Because I care about comics. I care about the medium, I care about the characters and I care about the stories. I care because when people stop caring, the medium suffers, the characters that have endured for most a century get used to sell propaganda instead of tell stories, the audience goes away and those character run the risk of fading away.
It's comics, my dudes.
Again, trying really hard to give you every benefit of the doubt and not read that as condescending, and you’re not making it any easier.
The more things change, the more than stay the same. Or as Jab says, they go Back To Basics and remember that Status Quo Is God.
They go back to basics because, shocker, most of those changes were ham-fisted and done purely to clutch pearls and virtue signal rather than tell good stories or make sales. And every time the change is reversed, there’s an outcry about how it’s an example of “white washing” or “queer erasure” or something similar. It happens with something as simple as fan art. There was a fan of the original She-Ra: Princess of Power who drew a character named Mermista, and drew her as white. They got a ton of backlash and hate for “white washing” the character because the more recent Netflix She-Ra series had made Mermista black. The problem is, the artist was clearly drawing the original 80s Mermista, who was white, because they were a fan of the 80s show and not the new one. But they still got harassed for it, because a new character with that name had been made black, and how dare they draw anything but the black version of the character?

A phrase you’ve used throughout your post is “It’s not fair”. And you know what? I’ll be the first to admit that plenty of the realm of fiction isn’t fair.

It isn’t fair that during the 30s, 40s and 50s, racial norms and societal pressures meant that the only way to have minority characters in your work was to make them sidekicks or side characters to white ones.

It isn’t fair that it took a cultural revolution in the 60s to embolden creators to start making new non-white heroes like the Flacon and Black Panther.

It isn’t fair that, like countless white characters before them, that not all black, Asian, Hispanic or Middle Eastern characters caught on and became popular, or didn’t receive the support they needed to flourish.

It isn’t fair that, rather than use pre-existing non-white characters, modern creators want to create a flood of new characters without actually giving them focus or the time to become popular, causing them to get lost in a sea of new faces and never really find an audience long term, dooming them to be relegated to background characters or to be killed off for shock value during the next company mandated crossover.

It isn’t fair that shallow, lazy creators, rather than putting in the work to create a new non-white hero that can succeed or fail on their own merits, tie them to pre-existing characters, sometimes even replacing those characters or drastically changing their race, gender or ethnicity solely to benefit from the work done to build up that previous character over the course of usually decades. It isn’t fair to see these characters treated as disposable solely so that the creator can feel some satisfaction of replacing a ‘pale, stale and male’ character with something else.

It isn’t fair that those same creators get to deflect criticism by claiming any dislike of those changes is racism, sexism or homophobia, and it isn’t fair that readers often have to wait years, even a decade or more, to get the original version of the character back, often amidst cries of white washing.

None of it’s fair. But until I finish working on my time machine, I can’t do anything about the unfair things that happened in the past. But I can refuse to accept unfairness happening in the present. And treating the “Mighty Whitey” thing as some legitimate grievance? That isn’t happening.
I know you don't like this stuff, Ares, but as bluntly as possible it's not being written for you. You are not the target audience. And that is not inherently a bad thing.
Wow. “It’s not written for you”. Imagine saying those words to someone you weren’t pretty sure is a straight white male on the other side of the screen. You spend your entire post wanting to be more inclusive, defending terrible acts as ‘not fair but necessary’, and then feel no hypocrisy in saying “this isn’t meant for you”?

All this does is make it sound like you’re perfectly fine with something not being fair so long as it benefits you or a cause you support.

What comics someone reads has always been a matter of taste. I’ve never collected Lobo, I don’t own many Wolverine issue, and I would sooner burn an issue of the Boys than damage my eyes, brain and heart reading the damned thing. But those are matters of taste, character preference and writing craftmanship (or lack thereof).

But that isn’t what you’re saying. You’re saying that these stories aren’t for me specifically because of the color of my skin or my orientation. Which is just a mindboggling thing to hear. I’ve already listed the various books I’ve read about non-white, non-male protagonists I’ve read, of the ones featuring queer characters that I never had a problem with. And by the same token, characters like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, the Hulk and others have large audience with non-white readers, because something about the character resonates with them.

By your logic, why should we have any non-white characters in comics? Clearly the majority of white characters means “it wasn’t meant for them”, so non-white readers should just stay out of it, right? Except that comics have NEVER been exclusively for one race. Even if most of the staff and characters in comics history have been white / Jewish, no one was stopping Shaquille O'Neal from becoming such a big Superman fan that he literally had an S-Shield tattooed on his arm. No black kids slapped my copy of Icon out of my hands. Because comics, in general, are written for anyone to appreciate because they generally speak to universal human concepts like heroism, helping people out and fighting injustice.

Believe it or not, I do think race is actually important. I think it’s a part of someone’s physical look, and can even have importance to them culturally. I just happen to think that race is equally important to every character equally. It’s just as important that Wally West is a white red-head as it is for T’Challa to be black. It’s just as important for Snake-Eyes and Iron Fist (Danny) to be white as it is for Storm Shadow and Shang Chi to be Asian. Ditto for sexual orientation. And people willing to change those aspects of a character, or to give someone with the ‘right’ skin tone or orientation another character’s identity rather than make new characters with their own identity? They just show how much race and equality really doesn’t matter to them.
greycrusader wrote: Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:50 am I hate to have to disagree Ares,
Please don’t. I talk loud and long and get . . . stupidly passionate about certain things, but don’t ever feel you should hate to disagree with me about everything. Disagreements keep us all individuals and give us opportunities to learn and grow, and either reinforce or re-think our values.
but I come down with Eternal Phoenix on this, and stand by my original statement that Danny's origin is (or at least WAS) a bit of a troublesome trope.
And as I’ve said at length that it really isn’t. Danny’s father was a citizen of K’un L’un. Danny was born with K’un L’un as part of his heritage, and he spent over half his life living there. It’s his culture.

Again, it’d be like telling Idris Elba that he isn’t British, or that any of the white families that have lived in Jamacia for generations aren’t Jamaican. It’s possible to not be ethnically the same race as a culture’s majority while still being part of that culture . . . well, culturally.
And it's basically exactly because what EP said is true; this wasn't something that happened in isolation. Right now, the only other hero with a similar background is Peter Cannon/The Human Thunderbolt, appearing in titles put out by a third-string publisher (Dynamite), and best known for being the basis for Ozymandias. But unfortunately, multiple examples are found in literature, the pulps, and earlier comics of White people mastering the knowledge and skills of a "mysterious" people to such a degree as to become that culture's champion (whether raised among them or not). A twist on this trope is found in the "Golden Age of Science Fiction", where humans (almost exclusively White and male) master alien technologies sufficiently to defeat their creators.
I’m sure if you went through all of fiction for the last 100 years or so you could well probably find a dozen, maybe even two dozen characters with the Mighty Whitey trope. They’re a drop in the bucket to the hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of fictional characters created in that same time.

Like I said, this is something that’s been happening since mythology, and it’s something that has happened with more than just white characters, but for some reason it’s ONLY a problem when white people do it. It’s also weird that, in most cases, the hero doesn’t stick around to become that cultures protector, he goes off into the world to fight evil, usually in his native homeland. It actually says something about the foreign land being superior to the character’s homeland.

And again, why is it a problem when Danny does it and not when Samurai Jack or the Bronze Tiger does the exact same thing? Why does Batman, Daredevil and Elektra get passes on it?
And again, the issue isn't that a solid majority of heroes/protagonists were White (either American or European) in heavily White nations-it's that non-White heroes were nearly NON-EXISTENT, with the rare non-offensive, non-stereotype existing as sidekicks (Umslopagas, Lothar, Kato); other cultures/nations were just about NEVER represented by one of their natives.
This was certainly true until the 60s, but that’s not really the fault of the fiction being put out at those times. At the time, most people in America were white. Most of the people buying books were white. And the racial tensions of the time combined with the almost criminally low pay rate for writers meant that they simply couldn’t afford to focus on anything but stories that would appeal to a predominantly white audience. As soon as it became safer to explore those ideas, creators started doing so with the creation of new, non-white characters with their own identities. That’s been going on for nearly 60 years at this point, and I full support that.

Like I said, I supported Icon, Rocket, Static and Hardware. John Henry Irons Steel was one of the best things to come out of the Death and Return of Superman. I like many, many characters that don’t look anything like me, I want them to have their own identity. Race swapping, changing a character’s orientation, replacing them with someone who has the ‘right’ ethnicity, it almost never comes off as sincere. At best, it comes off as a soulless cash grab meant to take advantage of current political BS, at worst it comes off as some kind of “victory” in the culture war and an act of revenge against a character who is simply what his creator wanted them to be.

Stan Lee said it best. He created Peter Parker to be a straight white male, and that’s how he should stay. If someone’s race, their orientation and their gender are important, then it’s no less important that Peter be a straight white male than it is that Fade from the Blood Syndicate be a gay black man. If you want characters of different races, genders and orientations, you create them whole cloth, brand new with their own identity, just like Stan did with the Falcon and the Black Panther.
Coupled with certain pervasive attitudes of past eras, that makes characters like Danny Rand heirs to an unjust tradition.
No. No it does not.
Now again-I don't think there's anything wrong with Iron Fist NOW, especially after the further development of K'un L'un, and the other Immortal Cities/Weapons. And recasting Iron Fist as an Asian/Asian-American is of course stereotypical in an entirely different manner (again, as I mentioned about Bendis' hack job on Karate Kid). And Marjorie Liu frankly didn't have any clue about Iron Fist's development or portrayal over the years before she made a silly comment on social media.

And yes, I'm in agreement with you that way too many attempts to introduce diversity are clumsy, insulting to fans of existing heroes, and just offensive for other reasons. Part of the reason being that many current writers/editors themselves have little connection to comics' history, nor are they being paid or given long-term contracts sufficient to make them care enough to learn.
I’m glad at least you agree that it can and has been done badly at points.

Okay, we’re nearing the end of this and if anyone made it all the way through . . . well, you’re more patient than you give yourself credit for. As I said at the start, this is where this discussion is going to end as far as Jab’s topic goes, so I don’t want anyone quoting or replying to this thread here. If you have any thoughts or criticisms you feel need to be discussed, take them up with me privately. I’m already clogging up this page of Jab’s thread enough as is.

So for me, my final thought ultimately boils down to this: The “Mighty Whitey” trope is not saying ‘white people be superior’, and anyone reading it that way is just looking for outrage. Because those stories aren’t about ‘Joe Average’ going to the Shao-Lin temple and learning to be better at kung fu than all of the monks there. It’s about someone with the potential to be a hero going some place that teaches a unique skill set, and through hard work masters those skills enough to go back out into the world and fight evil. That is what happens in 90% of those stories.

The alternative is that someone can go to those places, be accepted, put in all the effort to learn those skills and be unable to. Not because any lack of ability, not because of any physical failing, not because of a lack of effort. But because he’s the wrong skin color.

To me, it will always be far, far more racist to say “this character can’t learn this skill because he’s the wrong race” than to have a white guy be able to become as good in a skill as his non-white teachers.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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