Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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Ares
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Re: Khyber

Post by Ares »

Shock wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:08 pm
Batgirl III wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:36 pm Hassan-i Sabbah, full name: Hassan bin Ali bin Muhammad bin Ja'far bin al-Husayn bin Muhammad bin al-Sabbah al-Himyari, is an actual historical figure! Born in the city of Qom, Persia circa 1050 CE in what is now Iran, one was the founder of the Nizari Isma'ili caliphate which stretched from the Levant in modern day Syria to the Persian Gulf in modern Kuwait…

Why the heck is he using a codename based off a mountain pass in Pakistan!?

This is like… If George Washington was secretly an immortal, created a modern day superhero identity, and called himself “Captain Caribbean.”
You call that out but you're going to let assassins called Hashshashin go? It sounds like the writer's toddler had trouble pronouncing "assassin" and he decided to run with that.
That's what the actual real world order of was called tho. Hashshashin over time and language barriers gradually morphed to "assassin".
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Steel! Atomic Skull! Blackrock! Lobo!)

Post by catsi563 »

Hashashin or those who use hashish was the name of the order they belonged to or so most stories would attribute to said name,
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Re: Khyber

Post by Shock »

Ares wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:32 pm
Shock wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 7:08 pm
Batgirl III wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:36 pm Hassan-i Sabbah, full name: Hassan bin Ali bin Muhammad bin Ja'far bin al-Husayn bin Muhammad bin al-Sabbah al-Himyari, is an actual historical figure! Born in the city of Qom, Persia circa 1050 CE in what is now Iran, one was the founder of the Nizari Isma'ili caliphate which stretched from the Levant in modern day Syria to the Persian Gulf in modern Kuwait…

Why the heck is he using a codename based off a mountain pass in Pakistan!?

This is like… If George Washington was secretly an immortal, created a modern day superhero identity, and called himself “Captain Caribbean.”
You call that out but you're going to let assassins called Hashshashin go? It sounds like the writer's toddler had trouble pronouncing "assassin" and he decided to run with that.
That's what the actual real world order of was called tho. Hashshashin over time and language barriers gradually morphed to "assassin".
Well, nevermind then :D
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Steel! Atomic Skull! Blackrock! Lobo!)

Post by Batgirl III »

Hashshāshīn is a bit outdated, but it was once the the preferred romanticization of حَشَّاشِين‎ . Today that word would typically be transliterated as Hassassin. It’s the same word, just using different systems of rendering a non-Latin based languished into our Latin alphabet. Like “Beijing” versus “Peking.”

The word means “users of hashish” and was what the Crusader Kingdoms called the Order of Assassins. Hashshāshīn was likely mispronounced or misunderstood rendering of Asāsiyyeen أَسَاسِيِّين‎ which means something more akin to “follower of the faith” or “follower of the way.”
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Steel! Atomic Skull! Blackrock! Lobo!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Batgirl III wrote: Mon Jan 16, 2023 6:36 pm Hassan-i Sabbah, full name: Hassan bin Ali bin Muhammad bin Ja'far bin al-Husayn bin Muhammad bin al-Sabbah al-Himyari, is an actual historical figure! Born in the city of Qom, Persia circa 1050 CE in what is now Iran, one was the founder of the Nizari Isma'ili caliphate which stretched from the Levant in modern day Syria to the Persian Gulf in modern Kuwait…

Why the heck is he using a codename based off a mountain pass in Pakistan!?

This is like… If George Washington was secretly an immortal, created a modern day superhero identity, and called himself “Captain Caribbean.”
How DARE you people teach me things?! Now I know how Thorpocalypse feels :P.
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Intergang

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

INTERGANG
Created By:
Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #133 (Oct. 1970)
Role: Criminal Organization

-Intergang was set up by Jack Kirby as the recurring criminal element in his Jimmy Olsen run, desiring recurring nemeses. They were created in the 1920s by gangster Moxie "Boss" Mannheim, who died back in the day- the 1970s incarnation was ruled by his son Bruno, with media magnate Morgan Edge being intended to be their true boss. However, Edge was instead left on as a greedy, oddball boss to Clark Kent & co., the "Edge" in charge of Intergang being a clone created by Darkseid. Bruno was shown as getting orders and weaponry from Darkseid, making Intergang a more comic-booky, "Sci Fi" kind of criminal organization. Guys like the Kingpin & Silverman were never Jack's style, to be honest.

-Intergang had a few new bosses after the Edge clone's death, but Post-Crisis the group was reorganized. Now Edge WAS the leader of Intergang, but he had a heart attack under the stress. DeSaad turned out to be his secret boss instead of Darkseid, and DeSaad's goal was simply to cause suffering. Bruno Mannheim thus took over Intergang... until it was revealed that his father Moxie was still alive, having been released from prison. Discovering the Newsboy Legion are still young, he discovers their cloning technology and makes he and his minions more powerful in cloned bodies, and kills all the other gang leaders of Metropolis. This Intergang spent much of its time tracking down Jimmy Olsen, as Moxie was convinced that Jimmy new Superman's secret identity. Morgan Edge attempted to regain control, then Luthor maintained it, keeping Moxie as a figurehead until he was arrested again and disappeared. He was killed randomly by Superboy-Prime in Infinite Crisis #7, one of many unused backgrounders killed off.

-Intergang thus pops up a lot in the background of 52, being attacked by Black Adam, The Question, and others, as it's now supporting the "Crime Bible". Various minor villains like Magpie & The Ventriloquist swear allegiance to Intergang, but nothing much ever comes of this angle.
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Bruno Mannheim

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

BRUNO MANNHEIM
Created By:
Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen #139 (July 1971)
Role: Crime Boss
PL 7 (100)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+6)
Deception 3 (+6)
Expertise (Criminal) 9 (+11)
Insight 2 (+4)
Intimidation 3 (+6)
Investigation 2 (+6)
Perception 3 (+7)
Stealth 1 (+5)
Vehicles 1 (+6)

Advantages:
Benefit 2 (Boss of Intergang), Equipment 5 (Arsenal), Ranged Attack 5

Equipment:
"Guns" Blast 4 (8)
"Knife" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Improved Critical) (2)
"Automatic Weapons" Blast 6 (Extras: Multiattack) (Inaccurate -1) (11)
"Grenades" Blast 6 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Diminished Range -1) (17)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Guns +10 (+4 Ranged Damage, DC 19)
Automatic Weapons +8 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +4, Fortitude +5, Will +6

Complications:
Motivation (Greed & Power)

Total: Abilities: 64 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 10 (100)

-Bruno Mannheim occupies the role of "Generic Crimeboss" in Jack Kirby's run at DC- he is the boss of Intergang, a more "Comic Book" style criminal organization, but his secret boss was intended to be Morgan Edge, the media heavyweight. He intended to poison Guardian and the Newsboy Legion, but was forced to give up the antidote. That's about the extent of his Pre-Crisis Wikipedia bio, but he shows up Post-Crisis as a high-level member of Intergang, who become recurring Superman adversaries. Super-villains are easy to beat, but a secretive criminal organization is tougher. However, Intergang is a bigger organization and he's just a minor piece- his own father Moxie (killed Pre-Crisis) is instead a figurehead set up by Morgan Edge & Lex Luthor, who are the real puppet-masters). However, it's later implied by another bio that he's the leader, having trained on Apokolips for this purpose so I assume there's multiple retcons flying around in here. Bruno becomes leader of Intergang during Infinite Crisis, and is "reborn" by Darkseid during 52, following the "Crime Bible" and become a more psychopath. He is seemingly killed by Batwoman after attempting to sacrifice her, but he reappears later, now several stories tall, with a new, unnamed master, but I don't think this is followed up on.

-Mannheim is kind of emblematic of an issue at DC outside of the Bat-Books- ideally, this guy would be situated as a Kingpin or Silvermane-like figure, with fingers in a lot of pies and a recurring nuisance... but as Superman's stuff is separated from the rest of DC, he's instead just a minor-league nobody with zero character depth to him. No major "Mannheim Stories" are to be found anywhere, he changes randomly in the background, and more. Batman's recurring crime-bosses are often deeper villains who last a really long time, but this guy's just a nobody.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Atomic Skull! Blackrock! Lobo! Intergang!)

Post by Batgirl III »

I’m a big fan of organized crime as villains for superheroes. You can’t just Snikt! the problem away, so they lend themselves to long form storytelling. Their crimes, rackets, and schemes also tend to be more down-to-earth, letting the heroes fight crime and save regular people from regular dangers, instead of making every story arc into an apocalypse.

Nineties and Aughties Superman really needed the grounding a good mafioso villain could have given him. Given that Metropolis is on the opposite side of Delaware Bay from Gotham, it’s a shame that they never just had a Falcone or a Zucco set up shop over there.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Atomic Skull! Blackrock! Lobo! Intergang!)

Post by greycrusader »

I agree with Ares, the Lobo who appeared (however briefly) in the DCAU worked pretty well-not as over the top and basically (intentionally) irredeemable, but more of a crass, egotistical, and not terribly sharp tough guy who THOUGHT he was a good guy, a "hero in his own mind", so to speak. If you toned down a few of the ultra-violent 1990s elements, Lobo could be a fun character to enjoy as a guest star, team member (no, not in the Justice League), or in a mini-series, just treat him as a colossal jerk, not a psychopath. His look isn't THAT dated, since outlaw bikers are still a thing. I do concur with Jab that his series was very "AD 2000" in tone, reminiscent of British comics of the period (I think the character actually crossed over with Judge Dredd and some other brit-comic characters back in the day.

It strikes me that Superman has enough decently tough jobbers that a modern-day Superman Revenge Squad could be viable, put together by Intergang but backed up by a heavy-hitter or two; Clark has to deal with an outbreak of super-villainy in Metropolis that initially seems nothing he can't handle-guys like the Atomic Skull, Barrage, and Reactron on a minor crime spree, but when he shows up to stop them Superman is ambushed by Metallo or Parasite, weakening to the point where he's suddenly vulnerable to being attacked en masse by relative minor leaguers.

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Atomic Skull! Blackrock! Lobo! Intergang!)

Post by Ares »

Intergang is just a fun idea. If organized crime is going to have a hope of succeeding when SUPERMAN is in town, it's going to need some kind of equalizer. Having access to alien technology and superhumans is an easy way to do it, and can make Intergang a home for a lot of jobbers, maybe even have branches in other cities.

I could see something like Lex Luthor supplying their technology as a way to test anti-Superman technology, giving Intergang slightly downgraded versions that, if successful, Lex will upgrade and use in his own armor. You could also have Darkseid or Dessad supplying Intergang as a way to test Earth's heroes, but I don't know. I'm kind of tire everything that endangers Superman being due to Lex or Darkseid.

Maybe give Intergang an origin akin to the Vulture from Spider-Man: Homecoming. Mannheim saw Superman's arrival and realized he needed an edge, so he arranged for all of his criminal contacts to lay low and wait. He gathered up as much old school super tech from the WWII era, collaborated with older super geniuses, and every single time there was some kind of alien invasion or the like, his people would get a hold of some of the tech and start figuring out how to reverse engineer it.

As a result of the Golden Age villains working on creating Mannheim's supertech, it has a distinctly "old school" look to it. Mannheim is also always on the look out to create unique, enhanced crooks to work for him, and could be the source of some of the one-off villains that get brought back as regular jobbers. He could even Justin Hammer some local supervillains, letting them work freelance in exchange for a cut of their take and the occasional favor.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Atomic Skull! Blackrock! Lobo! Intergang!)

Post by Jabroniville »

PS it also occurs to me I had Lobo planned on here from day one, yet realized after posting that Lobo has almost zero interactions with Superman worth noting in the bios, lol. Like, they've MET, but it wasn't news-worthy or mattered to either guy.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Atomic Skull! Blackrock! Lobo! Intergang!)

Post by Sidious »

Will you be covering Lar Gand/Valor/Mon El?
Just wondering, mainly because it seems every other year there's a new Mon El introduction. The Phantom Zone must be filled with all the duplicates by now.
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Re: Bruno Mannheim

Post by Ken »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:06 am Image

BRUNO MANNHEIM

...as Superman's stuff is separated from the rest of DC, he's instead just a minor-league nobody with zero character depth to him. No major "Mannheim Stories" are to be found anywhere, he changes randomly in the background, and more. Batman's recurring crime-bosses are often deeper villains who last a really long time, but this guy's just a nobody.
This image is from Superman vol. 2, #6, is when they gave Mannheim powers from Apokolips. I don't remember if it was technology, or if they said than Mannheim was from Apokolips. He was much more formidable with those powers, hence the "Superman triumphant" nature of the picture when he beat Mannheim.

In any case, the Apokoliptian powers didn't last, but at least in late 1991, the Superman creative team TRIED to answer the question "what about Bruno."
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Atomic Skull! Blackrock! Lobo! Intergang!)

Post by Ken »

Sidious wrote: Tue Jan 17, 2023 12:46 pm Will you be covering Lar Gand/Valor/Mon El?
Just wondering, mainly because it seems every other year there's a new Mon El introduction. The Phantom Zone must be filled with all the duplicates by now.
More importantly, what about Halk-Kar, the proto-Mon-El?
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Atomic Skull! Blackrock! Lobo! Intergang!)

Post by Batgirl III »

I’m just here for Bibbo Bibbowski.
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