Jab’s Builds! (Whomp 'Em! Plumbers Don't Wear Ties! ToeJam & Earl!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Shock
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Parasite! Conduit! Cyborg Superman! Rampage!)

Post by Shock »

I always thought (based on no evidence) that it was because artists wanted to do bigger, splashier art than could be contained in 1 of 9 panels on a page.
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Ken
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Parasite! Conduit! Cyborg Superman! Rampage!)

Post by Ken »

Comic books started out as disposable periodicals. People didn't go into comics for their careers; they did it to pay the bills while they tried to get a better gig, for artists the goal was often a newspaper strip; and a comic strip artist has to convey story over successive panels. Over time, that changed. Eventually artists came along who loved comic books as an art form, and they wanted to be comic book artists.

Today, the floppy periodical comic book is an afterthought. Comic book "pages" are now meant to be looked at through the screen on a mobile phone. And no one cares about what the hard copy looks like until its a part of a collected volume. That's where the money is. Get your story in a collected volume, then as long as there's a market for that trade collection, bookstores will keep purchasing copies.

Writers write for the trade, and artists draw for the smartphone.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Parasite! Conduit! Cyborg Superman! Rampage!)

Post by Batgirl III »

There’s also been a persistent push towards both “decompressed” comics, where each panel is laid out like a single still frame from a film and towards “writing for the trade” where emphasis is placed on telling a story over four to six issues for publication as a trade paperback instead of focusing on single issue stories.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Parasite! Conduit! Cyborg Superman! Rampage!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Ken wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 8:52 am My favourite Kitty Faulkner stories were 6the one where she befriended and ultimately started dating Will Payton Starman.

However your build doesn't really include her energy absorbing powers,her regulator harness, or her growth. The harness is used to control her energy absorption. The growth is a side effect of the power. Here's what some of what happened when Rudy Jones tried using her power against Starman.
She doesn't look that huge in most pictures I see- certainly not Hulk-sized. Wikipedia only mentions she absorbs solar radiation as sustenance and it fuels her transformation- not any "Powers" effect that would have.
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The Golden Age Toyman

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

TOYMAN I (Winslow Percival Schott)- Golden Age
Created By:
Don Cameron & Ed Dobrotka
First Appearance: Action Comics #64 (Sept. 1943)
Role: Nuisance Villain
Group Affiliations: None

-The original Golden Age Toyman was a nuisance criminal who used toys to commit crimes- things like a pogo stick to jump to extreme heights and the like. He appeared numerous times through the Golden Age but stopped showing up as much after the early 1950s.
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The Modern Toyman

Post by Jabroniville »

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TOYMAN I (Winslow Percival Schott)- Modern
Created By:
Don Cameron & Ed Dobrotka
First Appearance: Action Comics #64 (Sept. 1943)
Role: Nuisance Villain/Insane Dangerous Villain
Group Affiliations: The Secret Society of Super Villains, The Superman Revenge Squad, The Injustice League, The Super Foes
PL 12 (155)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 2 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 7 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Close Combat (Toys) 6 (+8)
Deception 8 (+8)
Expertise (Criminal) 2 (+9)
Expertise (Toy-Maker) 4 (+11)
Insight 3 (+5)
Intimidation 6 (+6)
Perception 4 (+6)
Stealth 5 (+5)
Technology 6 (+13)
Vehicles 4 (+8)

Advantages:
Inventor, Ranged Attack 8

Powers:
"Toyman's Gadgets" (Flaws: Easily Removable) [26]
Variable 6 (Gadgets & Gizmos) (42 points)

"Toyman Mech" (Flaws: Removable) [52]
Enhanced Strength 10 (20)
Protection 12 (12)
Features 5: Increased Mass 5 (5)
"Jump-Jets" Leaping 3 (60 feet) (3)
"Cannons/Blasters" Blast 12 (Feats: Split) (25)
-- (65 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +2 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Gadgets +8 (+2-8 Damage, DC 17-23)
Mech Strength +8 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Mech Blasters +12 (+12 Ranged Damage, DC 27)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +5 (DC 15), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +1, Fortitude +2, Will +5

Complications:
Enemy (Superman)
Responsibility (Insane)- Toyman frequently switches between remorseful, delusional, kindly and deranged.

Total: Abilities: 32 / Skills: 48--24 / Advantages: 9 / Powers: 78 / Defenses: 12 (155)

-Toyman hadn't appeared as much during the 1950s, but got a new lease on life in 1960s comics, where he appeared a lot. He soon grew from a nuisance villain using cutesy gimmicks to an unhinged monster- he had a sweet, humble civilian persona but was a childish, cackling madman "on the job". In the 1970s, however, Toyman retired from crime and a new man (Jack Nimball) took over the role- this strikes me as being like when Blackie Drago became the Vulture for a couple stories. Similar to that, he helped defeat his replacement, but in this case Winslow teamed up with Superman himself to bring Nimball, whom he felt had sullied the "Toyman" legacy, down.

-Winslow put some of his toys on display at a museum, but a blue-clad figure destroyed them all- thinking that he had been played for a fool by Superman, Winslow swore to destroy everything the Man of Steel held dear. It turns out the aggressor was Bizarro, searching for something else, but the damage was done- Nimball and a hotel guard were both murdered in cold blood, and a giant robot then terrorized Metropolis. He regained his sanity by story's end, and shed regretful tears as he was locked up. This set off a recurring element in his stories, remarkably like a Batman villain- Toyman would attempt to reform or regain his sanity, but something would make him snap and he'd be back to being a killer.

-In the revamped Post-Crisis Superman books, Toyman is redesigned in 1988. He's an unemployed British toymaker who blames Lex Luthor for his being fired, and tries to seek revenge. He went "Full Bat-Rogue", shaving his head and getting advice from "Mother" after deliberately attempting to be more "edgy" so his toy would get included in a Superman-themed line. He became a genuine child abductor thanks to a full psychotic break, eventually killing Adam Morgan, the son of Cat Grant. An attempt at reforming was revealed to be a hallucination caused when Zatanna attempted to reform him, and he later appeared in a lot of background roles. They attempt to recover from the "Child Killer" label by revealing that it was actually a Toyman robot who killed Adam- the "Mother" it was communicating with was Toyman himself, attempting to get through to the robot, which had gone rogue.

-Overall, Toyman ended up kind of a mess of a villain. Even in the '70s he seemed to have been dismissed as too kiddie and too trivial a threat for Superman now that comics had gotten more serious, and so they tried some "Edgelord" nonsense via him being a child abductor, a murderer, etc. Then they replaced him to try and undo the damage but went BACK on it, and then in the early 2000s they just make him a child killer. You can even see the writers try to take the edge of THAT, as there's no walking away from that kind of an atrocity... but it was done pretty clumsily and the character remains damaged. It's not for nothing that Superman: The Animated Series made him a robotic-looking shrimp.

-Toyman's one of those guys that can be an entirely different threat every adventure, changing not only his personality but his gadget-set constantly. Sometimes he appears in a giant war-mech (obviously still looking like a childish toy), sometimes he's just got some handy gadgets, and sometimes you're just fighting a robot.
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Davies
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Parasite! Cyborg Superman! Rampage! Toyman!)

Post by Davies »

What's sad about the Toyman's 90s transformation is that just a bit before that, in the aftermath of Superman's death, he was given a very sweet moment where he's sincerely mourning for Superman -- not in the classic "I wanted to be the one who got him" way, but saying "[he] thwarted [my] revenge, but I take no joy in his passing."
"I'm sorry. I love you. I'm not sorry I love you."
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Parasite! Cyborg Superman! Rampage! Toyman!)

Post by Ares »

As discussed here and on Discord, Toyman is actually a very solid villain concept, he just doesn't work as well as a Superman exclusive enemy. He'd work much better as an Arcade-style journeyman villain who can be used to menace all kinds of heroes. A Tony Stark level engineer whose weapons and roboticist designs are so good that he can create armies of toy-themed robots and weapons should potentially be able to build something(s) that can give even Superman a hard time. And while a toy-themed fight will almost always occur, it doesn't have to be the focus of the story. Make it more about the scheme Toyman is working on, how to thwart it, how to catch him, make it as much about outwitting him as fighting whatever new machines he's built.

I'd update Toyman slightly and have him be very nostalgia driven. He loves physical toys, they were his escape when he was younger, and now his schemes involve toys to some degree. Like he's trying to find / steal some rare toy or toy mold. Or he tries to kidnap the voice actors for the cartoons of one cartoon based off of a toyline to have them act out an episode while his toys play out the script. Or he goes after video game / mobile games for stealing children's attention from classic toys. Or he goes after people who make the news talking about toys negatively. Or he tries to open his own toy company with toys that are way more dangerous (working lightsabers, missile launchers that shoot real missiles, etc.). Or he infiltrates several toy companies, modifies their production machines so they produce his kinds of toys, and uses said toys to spy on the influential and gain blackmail material while his toys steal from the very wealthy.

And the easiest one or two issue story would simply be that Toyman sees superheroes as basically life sized toys and he wants to play with them via his own toys, so he arranges "playdates" with them via kidnapping, trickery, challenges or the like.

I'd go full Arcade with him, only instead of "Murderworlds", Toyman has "Playsets", areas designed around some theme that he's latched onto. You could easily make him some 80s toy aficionado and have him fight heroes with several "serial numbers filed off" versions of established properties. Like one Playset with an obvious Masters of the Universe / Thundercats theme, or a Not-Transformers / GoBots theme, etc. But don't restrict it to just the 80s, make him a true collector who will just as easily have things based around old school wind up toy soldiers and green army men.

He could even hire himself out to other villains who need robots, weapons, etc. He could easily be someone who supplies villains with "toys" of their own, whether it's robot minions, power armor, ray guns, etc.

Plenty of potential for the character.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Parasite! Conduit! Cyborg Superman! Rampage!)

Post by greycrusader »

Ken wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:58 pm Comic books started out as disposable periodicals. People didn't go into comics for their careers; they did it to pay the bills while they tried to get a better gig, for artists the goal was often a newspaper strip; and a comic strip artist has to convey story over successive panels. Over time, that changed. Eventually artists came along who loved comic books as an art form, and they wanted to be comic book artists.

Today, the floppy periodical comic book is an afterthought. Comic book "pages" are now meant to be looked at through the screen on a mobile phone. And no one cares about what the hard copy looks like until its a part of a collected volume. That's where the money is. Get your story in a collected volume, then as long as there's a market for that trade collection, bookstores will keep purchasing copies.

Writers write for the trade, and artists draw for the smartphone.
Oh, I'm sure that most definitely plays a part, Ken. The money is in the trades currently, not so much digital right now, since Comixology turned into an utter debacle, while DC and Marvel have consistently and stupidly failed to embrace the medium. But rates per page/book have really fallen from the "Big Two", and its much less time-consuming for an artist to do a big two-page spread than ten smaller panels, even if the splash page involves a bunch of characters. Basically laying out one big scene as opposed to a bunch of smaller ones. So time spent means more money per hour, means more free time to work on other paying projects. And given BOTH factors, what we get are today's books, with far fewer panels/scenes and a much slower rate of storytelling.

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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Parasite! Cyborg Superman! Rampage! Toyman!)

Post by Batgirl III »

Toyman could serve as an in-universe way to address the perennial question of fans on every playground since time immemorial: “who would win in a fight Superman or [insert any pop culture figure here]?”

I’d partner him up with Roulette and have him working for the House, maybe just as a “consultant” rather than a permanent part of the organization. It would explain how he got the funding to build his “play set” and Roulette could be taking bets on Superman versus a Toyman-built robot that is similar to but legally distinct from One-Punch Man.
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Toyman (Nimball)

Post by Jabroniville »

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TOYMAN II (Jack Nimball)
Created By:
Cary Bates & Curt Swan
First Appearance: Superman #177 (Feb. 1974)
Role: Nuisance Villain
Group Affiliations: None

-When Winslow Schott retired in 1974, a new Toyman quickly apepared- Jack Nimball (a riff on “Jack Be Nimble”) wore a jester costume and still used toys as weapons. Schott, feeling that Nimball sullied his name, helped Superman catch him at least once, and later killed him with a mechanical toy bird in a Nov. 1976 story- Nimball didn't even make the three-year mark, and only appeared in four stories. His only legacy was that the version of Toyman seen in Challenge of the Super Friends was based off of Nimball's.
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Toyman (Hiro Okamura)

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

TOYMAN III (Hiro Okamura)
Created By:
Jeph Loeb & Ed McGuinness
First Appearance: Superman #127 (Feb. 2002)
Role: Legacy Hero
Group Affiliations: None

-A heroic Toyman, Hiro Okamura is a Japanese kid who piloted a giant Super Robot against Metallo, claiming the villain's body had materials stolen from Hiro's grandfather. He creates a lot of gear inspired by anime & manga, and helps Superman & Batman out on some cases. When the villainous Toyman quickly reappears, this one seems troublesome to still be kicking around under that name, but appears as a lonely kid needing to be helped out by Superboy & Robin. He's the source of a popular joke about Power Girl being told to act as a distraction for the pre-teen, and her confused "why me?" reaction swiftly turning to "... oh".
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Parasite! Cyborg Superman! Rampage! Toyman!)

Post by Batgirl III »

Despite the obvious similarities between Toyman III (Okamura) and M&M’s own Doc Otaku, I don’t think either one is a “rip off” or “homage” to the other. I think it’s a case of parallel design.

Okamura debuted in Superman (vol. 2) #177 which carries a cover date of February 2002… Mutants & Masterminds released that same year, in the summer of memory serves, with the original Freedom City supplement and the debut of Doc Otaku coming out in 2003.

But Freedom City was originally drafted and (unsuccessfully) pitched as a setting for Silver Age Sentinels before Kenson wrote M&M. Likewise, Loeb and/or McGuiness would have had to come up with the idea of Toyman III months (if not years) before they published Superman #177.
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Re: Rampage

Post by kenseido »

Jabroniville wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:16 am Skills:
Deception 4 (+4)
Intimidation 8 (+8)
Perception 2 (+2)

Dr. Kitty Faulkner was working on a pollution-free energy source in a competition sponsored by the Daily Planet...
Shouldn't she have some other skills?
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Re: Rampage

Post by Davies »

kenseido wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 6:11 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:16 am Skills:
Deception 4 (+4)
Intimidation 8 (+8)
Perception 2 (+2)

Dr. Kitty Faulkner was working on a pollution-free energy source in a competition sponsored by the Daily Planet...
Shouldn't she have some other skills?
I think the idea is that Rampage doesn't have access to Dr. Faulkner's skills, much like a certain unjolly green giant doesn't have Expertise: Physics.
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