Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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Skaramine
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Goblins! The Lizard! Mysterio! Dr. Octopus!)

Post by Skaramine »

That issue, I kind of hoped that it would also have resparked Peter and Betty. Especially when she survived that shotgun attack by Sin-Eater.

As for Daredevil, I think that the Aunt May mode was kind of trumped by Daredevil realizing he had to not pull a single punch after being knocked through a window by a furious Spider-Man.

Remember, Spidey is generally loathe to go full Power Attack on anyone, and he only really was in murder mode against Sin-Eater.

Daredevil, however, has few compunctions about going all out on an opponent. His Fighting and Close Combat scores just allow him more room to Power Attack and still hit an Aunt May mode Spidey.
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Skaramine
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Goblins! The Lizard! Mysterio! Dr. Octopus!)

Post by Skaramine »

From your own Daredevil build:
Offense:
Unarmed +16 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Billy Club +15 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Club Toss +15 (+4 Ranged Damage, DC 19)
So, in Power Attack mode, Billy Club becomes +10 (+10 Damage, DC 25), basically, hitting as hard as the Lizard or Scorpion.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Goblins! The Lizard! Mysterio! Dr. Octopus!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Skaramine wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 7:35 pm From your own Daredevil build:
Offense:
Unarmed +16 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Billy Club +15 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Club Toss +15 (+4 Ranged Damage, DC 19)
So, in Power Attack mode, Billy Club becomes +10 (+10 Damage, DC 25), basically, hitting as hard as the Lizard or Scorpion.
Yep, he would. But my DD (and many of my more "human" martial artists) does not possess the full Power Attack- he can only go to +7.

And my misgiving is more because Spidey is usually a PL higher than DD, and was actively into his "furious fighter" mode, which has been established as being so frightening that guys like the Green Goblin and D'Spayre are helpless against it. And even with that, DD goes "well he's not fighting properly, so I can win", which generally goes against previous showings. So it felt like an odd reversal, and that Peter David was using different "rules" than everyone else was regarding super-fights (where PO'd heroes are usually MORE effective).
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Goblins! The Lizard! Mysterio! Dr. Octopus!)

Post by Skaramine »

Point well made. :)
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The Sin-Eater

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE SIN-EATER I (Detective Stan Carter)
Created By:
Peter David & Rich Buckler
First Appearance: The Spectacular Spider-Man #107 (Oct. 1985)
Role: Police Helper
Villain Ranking: E-Level
Group Affiliations: The NYPD
PL 8 (111)
STRENGTH
4 STAMINA 5 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 7 (+10)
Deception 8 (+11)
Expertise (Police Officer) 7 (+9)
Expertise (S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent) 4 (+6)
Insight 2 (+5)
Intimidation 4 (+7)
Investigation 4 (+7)
Perception 3 (+6)
Stealth 4 (+6)
Vehicles 1 (+5)

Advantages: 
Diehard, Equipment 6 (Police Pistol, Shotgun, Red Car), Extraordinary Effort, Fascination (Intimidation), Fearless, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Shotgun), Improved Initiative, Ranged Attack 4, Startle

Equipment:
"Revolver" Blast 5 (10)
"Shotgun Blast" Blast 7 (14)
"Shotgun Spray" Damage 5 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Cone +1/2) (7.5)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Revolver +8 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Shotgun +8 (+7 Ranged Damage, DC 22)
Shotgun Spray +5 Area (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +6

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +5, Fortitude +6, Will +3

Complications:
Motivation (Killing Sinners)- Various people were targeted for perceived misdeeds: Men who defended criminals, fought against the Death Penalty, and J. Jonah Jameson, who opposed vigilantism. 
Responsibility (Insane)- Stan Carter is insane- he targets Jean DeWolff because of his own guilt over being attracted to her.

Total: Abilities: 62 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 18 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 9 (111)

The Mysterious Sin-Eater:
-So, like I said- great story. And, as it's thirty years later (jebus), I can spoil the big secret: The very Detective who was investigating the murder of Jean DeWolff was in fact her murderer- an insane vigilante who punished "sinners". The story does give you hints about it, though they're hard to pick up until it's mentioned later; never mind the obvious Red Herring of the crazy guy going into confessions- Peter David correctly guessed that nobody would figure out it was Carter until it was too late.

-He says it's because he made Carter Jewish, as Isaac Asimov said that the best way to disguise somebody as evil is to make him Jewish and have him talk in that Yoda-like sentence inversion ("You want I should go to the mall?"- stuff like that), because most readers automatically assume that Jews are harmless, quirky sorts and not villains. This revelation in the Afterword amused me greatly, because I HAD ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA HE WAS JEWISH. I didn't pick up on the sentence-inversion until it was mentioned (it's fairly subtle), his last name doesn't sound Jewish (compare him to a Judge in the same story, whom a victimized senior suggests may be a Nazi Sympathizer- Peter is like "Judge ROSENTHAL? I don't think so..."), and I blew off the one case of him saying "Oy vay!" as a New York-ism (I know I've heard Spidey say it before), rather than him doing the Claremont-ism of defining his ethnicity by a token phrase.

-It may just be me, but I have to think this was a little bit of David, himself a New Yorker of Jewish descent, assuming that readers in the rest of the world would be more familiar with Jews than they really are. It happens a lot- the TV Tropes page "You Have To Have Jews" points out that the sheer number of Jewish people in the media actually leaves them the only minority group OVER-represented in fiction! It makes sense- the vast majority of writers in Hollywood are Jewish, and the two highest-populations of Jews in the United States are New York (home of the TV networks & Broadway) and Los Angeles (Hollywood). It's the same reason most characters just "default" to caucasian. Meanwhile, most people would hardly meet ANY in the U.S.- I've seen a map with large population centres, and it's pretty much ONLY NYC, LA, and Florida (which I find funny, because it's a total stereotype. Jews are great about owning up to stereotypes being based in fact, though).

Stan in the Story:
-In any case, Stan was a very friendly, wise-speaking, slow-talking sort of Detective who seemed really easygoing, if a bit saddened and "what can ya do?" about the fate of the world at times (he makes a really off-colour joke at Jean's funeral about an annoying Civil Rights leader: "I wonder if the Sin-Eater does requests?" Every cop I know tells worse, trust me). He even voluntarily lets Spider-Man help out on the case, both of them liking Jean, and wanting to catch her killer. But it turns out that, while a S.H.I.E.L.D. Agent, he may have come into contact with some experimental PCP-like drugs meant to increase the physical capabilities of their agents (THESE PEOPLE were the ones who wanted to have all super-heroes' personal information!). Of course, that MIGHT have been unrelated. However, when his partner was killed by some criminals, something snapped in his mind, and he became obsessed with punishing "sinners". He murdered Captain Jean DeWolff because he felt guilty about his lust for her, murdered an old Judge friend of Matt Murdock's because he frequently defended scum, murdered a Priest because he opposed the Death Penalty, and went for J. Jonah Jameson because he opposed vigilantism.

-As The Sin-Eater, he proves to be QUITE deadly, though usually extra circumstances are at work. He kills only helpless victims, and Matt Murdock botches saving his Judge friend because he hesitated over doing so while in his Civilian I.D. (this actually hampers Peter later, too- David was good at pointing out how stuff like that can REALLY screw heroes over, beyond the "OMG how do I make an excuse and leave?" People DIE because the heroes feel they can't just leap into action in their civvies). Spider-Man gets surprised by the guy's brutality and toughness, and dodges a shotgun blast, but is stunned when- OH YEAH- you do that in a crowded New York street, and someone behind you gets killed. This stalls Pete just long enough for the Sin-Eater to escape. It isn't until he targets Jameson (only his wife and Betty Brant are home) that Spidey gets the jump on him, going "YOU KILLED MY FRIEND!" mode on him and beating Carter within an inch of his life. Daredevil has to literally yank Spidey off the guy, then taunt him, in order for Peter to turn on DD instead.

Stan's Quick End:
-Carter is arrested, but is crippled following the beating at the hands of a Class 15 hero. As many angry protesters predicted in the first story (they riot and nearly lynch him- and in a rare moment of out-of-character brutality, Spider-Man basically lets them until DD gets involved), he is let out of jail early after being found Not Criminally Responsible due to the drugs in his system. However, he's taunted by visions of The Sin-Eater, and commits "Suicide By Cop", goading police officers into shooting him. There have been a couple of Copycat Killers, one facing off against Venom (he's killed by ANOTHER shotgun-wielding vigilante) after injuring Eddie Brock's ex-wife. Another is much more recent, popping up in AXIS with magic powers that absorbed evil from others- Carnage's repressed evil made the SE grow to gigantic heights, but soon exploded, overwhelmed by Carnage's evil depths. Also there's a couple rand-os who showed up in Ghost Rider, who are unlinked to the three who've fought Wall-Crawlers.

Stan's Stats:
-A dangerous foe with Human-Level Stats, The Sin-Eater is dangerous, but there are extenuating circumstances when Spidey & DD fail to stop him (Spidey nearly cleans his clock in the first fight, but is distracted by a dying civilian and his Aunt May being injured in a stampede of people). He's tough as nails (a big clue the one Red Herring isn't the SE is when Spidey knocks him out with a single toss of an typewriter roll) and a half-decent PL 8 with a lot of durability, but a pissed-off Spider-Man soon overwhelms him, beating him to a bloody pulp.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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The Squid

Post by Jabroniville »

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That girl's just happy this isn't an anime.

THE SQUID IV (Don Callahan)
Created By:
Howard Mackie & John Romita, Jr.
First Appearance: Peter Parker: Spider-Man #16 (2000)
Role: Doc Ock Rip-Off, Generic Animal-Themed Villain
Villain Ranking: D-List
Group Affiliations: N/A
PL 8 (123)
STRENGTH
7 STAMINA 7 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+5)
Athletics 2 (+9)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+8)
Expertise (Survival) 5 (+5)
Expertise (Criminal) 3 (+3)
Intimidation 6 (+6)
Perception 4 (+4)
Stealth 5 (+8)

Advantages: 
Benefit (Ambidextrous), Chokehold, Fast Grab, Improved Hold, Improved Grab, Startle

Powers:
"Squid Features"
"Eight Arms" Extra Limbs 4 [4]
"Multiple-Arm Strike" Strength-Damage +0 (Feats: Reach 5) (Extras: Multiattack 7) [12]
"Animal Senses" Senses 2 (Low-Light Vision, Direction Sense) [2]
Elongation 2 (Flaws: Limited to Arms) [1]
"Boneless Body" Insubstantial 1 (Flaws: Half-Effect- Requires Some Space) [3]
"Bioluminescence" Environment 1 (Light- 30 feet) [1]

"Squid Movement"
Swimming 2 (4 mph) [2]
Immunity 3 (Pressure, Cold, Drowning) [3]
Movement 2 (Wall-Crawling, Slithering) [4]

"Ink Jet" Dazzle Visuals 7 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Touch Range) (14) -- [15]
AE: Dazzle Scent 4 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Touch Range) (14)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +7, Fortitude +7, Will +3

Complications:
Relationship (Father)- Don was estranged from his father, but they came to an understanding.

Total: Abilities: 48 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 47 / Defenses: 8 (123)

-hahahah what the hell, man. Dr.Octopus is a great villain, but a WANNABE of him? In SPIDEY's Rogues Gallery? The guy has more animal-themed adversaries than you can shake a Jobber Villain at, and they add ANOTHER one? Oh well, it's still not as bad as all the Goblins. Otherwise we'd have seen The Cuttlefish, The Ammonite & Mr. Nautilus by now (not that those aren't AWESOME names for super-villains). Don Callahan's some generic guy who got his powers by some stuff (seriously, bios just say "he fell into the wrong crowd and ended up transformed into a Squid-creature", which would make one hell of an After-School Special now that I think about it), and then he fought Spidey, lost, and went forever into the ranks of Jobberdom. His distinct appearance means he shows up a LOT in background shots, and his lack of credibility means a lot of rookie heroes can thump him in one-offs, so you actually see a lot of him compared to some Spidey villains- he's practically a Journeyman Villain at this point.

-The Squid is a weak PL 8, fitting PL 7.5 most of the way through, but he packs a pair of Dazzles onto a frame designed mainly for grappling (which he does well enough to hold Spider-Man sufficiently). He's got all the Extra Limbs stuff, a Multiattack, Elongation, and the general Ock-rip stuff, but there's more- being part-Squid allows me to swipe some of the stuff from my build of the ACTUAL animal, giving him a Boneless Body (Limited Fluidity), Senses, Bioluminescence (he never actually showed this- I just thought it'd be spiffy and showed someone did their homework if he did), Swimming and some Movement stuff. Plus the Ink Jets- smelly or blind-y, your choice. He's not a COMPLETE pushover, but against a PL 11 Spider-Man? Or anyone who actually knows what they're doing? He'll go down eventually, no matter how strong & tough he is.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Man-Wolf

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE MAN-WOLF (Colonel John Jameson)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Steve Ditko
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #1 (March 1963)
Role: Avengers Pilot, Side-Character, Heroic Counterpoint to Main Hero
Villain/Ally Ranking: D-List
Group Affiliations: The Avengers' Staff
PL 10 (98)
STRENGTH
7 STAMINA 7 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -3 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE -3

Skills:
Expertise (Survival) 6 (+8)
Intimidation 12 (+9)
Perception 5 (+7)
Stealth 5 (+9)

Advantages: 
All-Out Attack, Animal Empathy, Chokehold, Daze (Intimidation), Diehard, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Natural Weapons), Improved Intiative, Improved Hold, Improved Trip, Startle

Powers:
"Wolf Physiology"
"Animal Senses" Senses 6 (Acute & Extended Scent, Low-Light Vision, Scent-Tracking, Ultra & Extended Hearing) [6]
"Animal Physiology" Speed 2 [2]
"Natural Weapons- Teeth" Strength-Damage +2 [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Natural Weapons +11 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +7, Fortitude +11, Will +4

Complications:
Responsibility- John Jameson turns into the Man-Wolf against his will, and loses his own mental faculties as a result.
Power Loss (Daylight)- The Man-Wolf's powers are only active at night.
Disabled (Mute)- The Man-Wolf cannot speak.
Relationship (She-Hulk)- Lucky son of a BITCH.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 10 / Defenses: 12 (98)

-John Jameson's always been a weird kind of supporting character. Essentially a counter-point to Spider-Man in that he's a "legit" American hero, being a big, handsome, broad-shouldered astronaut/military guy, by contrast to the mysterious, creepy, skinnier Spider-Man (especially under Ditko). Jameson is also actually really a nice guy, counterpointing his own father as well. He was just fine in that role, but then this is MARVEL, and so every supporting character has to have some kind of link to super-villainy. In John's case, he was given powers THREE TIMES: The first time, some moon gas made him super-strong and crazy. The second time, a stone from the moon (not a Moonstone like Karla Sofen has) turns him into The Man-Wolf, a vicious animal who kicks ass at night- he became a minor recurring threat in this identity (likely another attempt to circumvent the Comics Code rules against supernatural monsters, much like Morbius was). The third time, it was revealed that the Moon Stone was empowered by a "Stargod" which gave John vague cosmic powers, a suit of armor, and weapons. He lost those powers after returning to Earth, having given them up in order to do so.

-Me, I kinda liked him as Cap's official pilot in the '90s Cap books (Mark Gruenwald was always obsessed with the inner-workings of how super-stuff worked- The Serpent Society & The Avengers all had personal staff, bases, and procedures to follow, just like in real life), even though he was fairly bland and just a face for Cap to talk to sometimes. He got involved in the notorious "CapWolf" storyline, and ended up quitting Cap's employ after falling in love with Cap's GF, Diamondback. He has since eloped with She-Hulk, turned into the Man-Wolf a few more times in one-off stories, and then turned back into the Stargod. He & She-Hulk then separated when it turned out that they'd apparently been manipulated into falling in love by the Avenger Starfox/Eros' Love Powers. Their marriage was annulled.

-So yeah, weird, WEIRD history. Even J. Jonah Jameson's SON ends up with multiple identities, a marriage to a superhuman, and all sorts of weird stuff going up and down over the years. For such a minor character, it's bizarre to have so many twists and turns.

-The Man-Wolf is your standard generic Monstrous Animal Foe, with claws, senses and all that jazz, with little else original about him. He's tougher than most, being PL 10, and is thus not to be underestimated, but he's REALLY on the cheap since he's a dumb animal this way. Col. Jameson in his natural form is merely a very good physical specimen with some capability elsewhere, but he's still at NPC level, barely able to take out some common thugs by himself.

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COLONEL JOHN JAMESON
Created By:
Stan Lee & Steve Ditko
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #1 (March 1963)
Role: Avengers Pilot, Side-Character, Heroic Counterpoint to Main Hero
Villain/Ally Ranking: D-List
Group Affiliations: The Avengers' Staff
PL 5 (73)
STRENGTH
4 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+8)
Deception 3 (+5)
Expertise (Astronaut) 10 (+13)
Insight 3 (+6)
Perception 2 (+5)
Technology 2 (+5)
Vehicles 2 (+4)
Vehicles 8 (+12) -- Flaws: Limited to Airborne Vehicles

Advantages: 
Benefit (Security Clearance- Astronaut)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +5 (DC 15), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +4, Fortitude +6, Will +4

Total: Abilities: 52 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 5 (73)
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu May 19, 2022 8:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Capt. Stacy

Post by Jabroniville »

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CAPTAIN GEORGE STACY
Created By:
Stan Lee & John Romita
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #56 (Jan. 1968)
Role: The One Friendly Cop, Papa Bear (to Gwen)
Supporting Cast Ranking: B-Level
Group Affiliations: NYPD
PL 5 (39)
STRENGTH
-1 STAMINA -1 AGILITY -2
FIGHTING 1 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 3 (+6)
Expertise (Police Captain) 10 (+13)
Insight 4 (+8)
Investigation 7 (+11)
Perception 4 (+8)
Ranged Combat (Pistol) 4 (+4)

Advantages:
Benefit (Police Captain), Equipment 2 (Pistol- Blast 5)

Offense:
Unarmed +1 (-1 Damage, DC 14)
Pistol +4 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Initiative -2

Defenses:
Dodge +0 (DC 10), Parry +1 (DC 11), Toughness -1, Fortitude +0, Will +7

Complications:
Relationship (Gwen Stacy)- George is a devoted single father to Gwendolyn, and will do anything for her.
Disabled (Crippled)- Requiring a Cane just to walk, George Stacy is years past his physical prime.

Total: Abilities: 14 / Skills: 32--16 / Advantages: 3 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 6 (39)

-Captain Stacy was one of the early Spidey supporting cast members to get offed. He was a neat character- a rare FRIENDLY cop, who thought Spider-Man was a good guy, and never once freaked out on Parker for doing something that seemed selfish or dumb. He kind of just acted as this calm, collected guy who was like 90 years older than his college-aged daughter, and acted as a positive figure in the books. It was also revealed that Stacy (like Robbie Robertson after him) pretty much had the whole "Secret I.D." thing all figured out. His death is one of the greatest in all of comics, as he flung his walking cane to the side and leapt to save a young child in the way of falling debris. The debris killed him, but not before he told Spidey (calling him by his real name) to "take care of Gwen" for him.

-He's physically very weak, but mentally extremely sharp, and has a keen investigative mind.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gwen Stacy

Post by Jabroniville »

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GWEN STACY
Created By:
Stan Lee & Steve Ditko
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #31 (Dec. 1965)
Role: The Girlfriend, The Betty, The Hot-Then-Cold Girl, The Victim, Daddy's Girl
Supporting Cast Ranking: A-Level
Group Affiliations: N/A
PL 2 (29)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 1 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Expertise (Pop Culture) 2 (+5)
Expertise (Science) 3 (+6)
Insight 4 (+4)
Persuasion 1 (+5, +7 Attractive)

Advantages:
Attractive

Offense:
Unarmed +1 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Initiative +1

Defenses:
Dodge +1 (DC 11), Parry +2 (DC 12), Toughness +0, Fortitude +0, Will +2

Complications:
Relationship (Peter Parker)- Gwen loves Peter despite his faults, and admires his intellect as much as his looks.
Relationship (Father)- Gwen is a Daddy's Girl through and through, and his death devastates her, and pushes her towards a tremendous hatred of Spider-Man, whose fight caused his death.

Total: Abilities: 22 / Skills: 10--5 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 1 (29)

Gwen- The Time-Lost Girlfriend:
-It's actually kinda hard for me to properly "judge" Gwen as a character, as like most Spidey fans these days, I never grew up with her. All we have are the retroactive stories featuring her, and the way all the other characters remember her and her death. In fact, it's long been assumed that Gwen was just this sweet nice girl who got murdered, but she was actually kinda bitchy and fly-off-the-handle anime-girl crazy at times, which makes her a lot more interesting. A very archetypical "Hot-then-Cold" type of girl. And yeah, her death was one of the biggest in all of comics- few have ever come close to the sheer dramatic impact of a super-hero desperately trying to save the girl... and failing. Origin stories showcased hero's failures, but THAT big a one? With arguably the biggest supporting character in the book? Yeah, it was crazy- her death is pretty much the single most-obvious choice for the moment that ended The Silver Age of Comics. And it was SO big that something of comparable note is impossible today- comics has tried copying it so many times, and brought so many people back from the dead, that it's lost the impact it might have once had.

-Her death is actually more famous than SHE is, and that's why she rarely showed up in the Spidey-related media. She didn't appear in any of the Spidey cartoons until The Spectacular Spider-Man came out a couple of years ago, and she only had a tiny role in Spider-Man 3. MJ by that point had become THE girl in Peter's life, and all the media reflected that (Betty Brant suffered an even worse fate, being barely an extra in the movies & cartoons). It wasn't until the movies rebooted with The Amazing Spider-Man that she became the central female in a major way... and of course because she's most famous for DYING, that's exactly what they eventually had her do. And now that series has been axed, with the actress playing her (Emma Stone) becoming the Next Big Actress as part of the Hype Machine.

-But the issue following Gwen's death is still one of the best in the series: one of the best things about Peter is that he tends to react pretty realistically to harsh situations. If you do something f*cked up to him, he's going to lose it and come at you with everything he has- one of my favourite moments in comics is when he just charges the Green Goblin and ANNIHILATES him. Gobby tries the old "Hee hee I'll sneak around and attack him from behind!" trick and Spidey just DIVE-BOMBS him and pummels him within an inch of his life. Moments like that make you realize just how scary someone that strong could be in a real battle, as the only reason Osborn didn't get beaten to death is because Peter snapped out of his psychosis before he became a murderer. And then, in one of those brilliant twists of fate that comics can be SO good at, Osborn is killed by his own weapon- both giving him the comeuppance he needed for such an act, and keeping Peter innocent of the death. Just perfect storytelling.

Post-Death Gwen:
-The less said about her apparently birthing Norman Osborn's children during a brief period when she left the Spidey books, the better. Seriously, that is one of the STUPIDEST ideas for a story I've ever heard- it even combines most of my LEAST-favourite comic book troipes into one giant pile of idiocy: Pointless Retroactive Continuity? Check. Character Derailment? Check. Suddenly-Introduced Children? Yup. Those children actually being AGED-UP so that they could be adults? God they even did THAT. And they even made MARY JANE look awful in the storyline TOO, by having her reveal that she'd known ALL ALONG that Gwen had given birth to Osborn's children, and had kept it hidden all this time! I still have trouble belieing that J. Michael Straczynski, who'd been writing one of the best Spider-Mans in AGES, was responsible for this piece of crap. He's since admitted he wanted to Retcon the story out of continuity following One More Day, but wasn't allowed to- it's been scarcely referenced since, so it's probably safe to say it's in that weird "Maybe Retconned Out" zone where it'll never get referenced again... unless some writer randomly reintroduces the kids.

Gwen's Stats:
-Gwen's not a fighter at all, but she's pretty bright and of course totally hot.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Goblins! The Lizard! Mysterio! Dr. Octopus!)

Post by greycrusader »

The JMS rum mostly unloaded a pile of sludge across Spider-Man's history; his powers were "mystical" in nature, with Peter being a "spider totem", he wasn't the first Spider-Man (that was Ezekial), there were a whole host of other, vaguely related knock-offs (The Other, the Bride), a boring Villain Sue named Morlun, and the Gwen Stacy's twins with Osborn abomination...

Then OMD happened, and suddenly MJ (THE ONE, Brian Michael Bendis! THE ONE!) is written out, with Peter Parker living in his elderly Aunt's basement again, and the Editor-in-Chief's daughter avatar insert is shipped as Spider-Man's new true love. Being dead for years somehow equates to being "in Europe", and the whole "Spider-Man reveals his identity-nothing will ever be the same" is revealed as the garbage, meaningless story development it was, in fairly pathetic comic book fashion.

Of course, having Spider-Man tolerate Norman Obsborn running around loose for years and even basically RUNNING THE U.S. at one point makes a mockery of the whole "Peter will always be devastated by the Goblin's murder of Gwen" bit, since apparently Peter just basically tacitly accepted the whole situation, like "well, sure I saw him throw the woman I loved to her death, but I've got no evidence to present in court, so what are you going to do?"-it just made him look pathetic.

And yeah-SM's supporting cast, once among the best, has been reduced to sad remnants. Likely why the last time I was excited to read Spider-Man, it was the whole "Superior" arc, even though, yes, the Avengers and others had to grab the Idiot Ball HARD to make the thing work.

All my best.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The One

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

uh... blbttt... can't ... type... sexy... overload...

MARY JANE WATSON-PARKER
Created By:
Stan Lee & John Romita
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #25 (partial- June 1965), #42 (full- Nov. 1966)
Role: The Girlfriend, The Party Girl, The Veronica, Miss Fanservice, The Victim
Supporting Cast Ranking: A-Level
Group Affiliations: N/A
PL 2 (52), PL 4 (52) Saves
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 4 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Acrobatics 3 (+5)
Expertise (Acting) 1 (+6)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 4 (+5)
Expertise (Modelling/Go-Go Dancing) 3 (+7, +12 Attractive)
Expertise (Fashion) 4 (+5)
Insight 4 (+6)
Persuasion 1 (+5, +10 Attractive)
Medicine/Treatment 4 (+5)

Advantages:
Attractive 2, Ranged Attack 3

Offense:
Unarmed +4 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +2 (DC 12), Parry +4 (DC 14), Toughness +1, Fortitude +2, Will +6

Complications:
Relationship (Peter Parker)- M.J. loves Peter, despite his faults (and his frequent disappearances), and the two are really made for each other.
Relationship (Family)- M.J.'s family life is absolutely screwed-up- it's part of why she acted out as a Party Girl in her younger years. Her father was a crook, and she was estranged from her sister for a long time. Her only really close family member is her Aunt Anna.
Responsibility (Fame)- Mary Jane's fame as a Soap Opera actress has inspired numerous crazy fans to begin stalking or threatening her.

Total: Abilities: 30 / Skills: 24--12 / Advantages: 5 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 5 (52)

Mary Jane- The Fun Party Girl:
-M.J. started out as a running-gag in the early days of Spider-Man, with Peter constantly dodging his Aunt's attempts to hook him up with that "nice girl from next door". Fearing a major Ugg-o, Pete flirted with all sorts of ladies until he met... well, basically it was the 1960s' version of the perfect woman- a curvy, buxon redhead (the long & straight shiny-haired variety) with long eyelashes and a party girl attitude- artist John Romita debuted her in what is easily the greatest introductory-panel in comic book history, and designed her off of the staggeringly-hot Ann Margaret.

-Mary Jane was initially depicted as rather flighty, a happy-go-lucky, totally superficial "Party Girl" who sometimes appeared flat-out insane (dancing at the drop of a hat- in a great Deadpool issue, a time-travelling Blind Al sees this and goes "*sigh*, so young to be involved with the crack."). Her Go-Go Girl-inspired dialogue and dress was actually a pretty clear reference to the counter-culture of the time, and despite Stan Lee's wish to make Gwen Stacy Peter's one-true-love, fans seemed to like the exciting Mary Jane more.

A Change in Mary Jane:
-M.J. got more development when Gwen Stacy was killed. Her personal Crowning Moment of Awesome was when a despondent Peter told her to F-off and get out of his life ("You wouldn't cry if your own MOTHER died!"), and MJ turned to the door... and promptly shut it, refusing to leave Peter alone. THAT was when the fans got her real personality (an explanation of her backstory showed that her father was a crap-head, and she acted out because of it), and when we all realized that the two were meant to be together. And of course Aunt May knew it all along- SHE saw through MJ's false front.

-Of course, that actually took a while. They broke up a couple times, and Pete did his own thing for most of the '80s with Deborah Whitman & Felicia Hardy, even after M.J. called Peter out for being Spider-Man, revealing that she spotted him the night Uncle Ben died- I think a lot of writers still had some intentions for a single, bachelor Spider-Man, and it really DID provide some fun storytelling once in a while. But they FINALLY got married, and they had plenty of great storylines about that, especially once Marvel writers took a page from modern pop culture and put her in a Soap Opera heavily inspired by Dynasty and General Hospital-type stuff. M.J.'s gigantic Eighties Hair at the time made her PERFECT for such a role (seriously, MacFarlane & Larsen LOVED drawing her with this enormous hairdo).

Nerdy Comic Book Writers Mysteriously Have Trouble Writing Couples:
-The problem was, SO MANY comic book writers seem to have this blind-spot regarding married couples, so there were several attempts to split them up, be it via divorce, her dying, or Peter making a deal with the devil (oh how I wish I wasn't joking). I have no idea why the writers can't deal with something as simple as a marriage, though- every freaking sitcom in existence for the past sixty years has married people in it, and those shows often last a decade each. I mean, I GET IT- I know that "Swinging Bachelors" are easier to write, especially with the will-they/won't they stuff and the various new female characters you can add- it makes for dynamic stories and doesn't rope you in and have to re-tell the same old fights over and over again ("Don't go- it's too dangerous!" "But I MUST!"). But there is a TON of material out there for a Superhero Marriage- there are great bits when M.J. feels threatened, or when she grows self-conscious about how Peter & The Black Cat have so much in common and she feels "left out". There are times when she gets frustrated over his constant disappearances, or the danger he puts himself in. Hell, even the SPIDER-BABY was rife with new storytelling opportunities- very few heroes out there actually successfully breed and RAISE THE CHILD- most of the time it's a Test Tube Artificially-Aged Baby. Any writer who's good enough can handle something as simple as a MARRIED CHARACTER. What could possibly be so hard about it? *sigh*...

Joe Quesada- The Enemy of Happiness:
-So Joe Quesada, who's always hated the Spider-Marriage, ordered J. Michael Straczynski to get rid of it, pointing out that kids don't want to read about married people, it hurts the "Hard-Luck Parker" narrative, and it "ages him" (though, as Something Positive scribe Randy Milholland notes, "you ever notice how men don't get divorced and then magically turn eighteen?"). JMS did so under duress, nearly taking his name off the book in protest. MJ has since gone on to become a supporting character in the Spider-Man books, as the erased marriage is suddenly remembered, but MJ decides to step back and do her own thing, not wanting to be part of Peter's dual-life anymore. Which is like, even MORE depressing. She's since popped up in the Iron Man book as a supporting cast member and helper of Stark's, so we'll see where that goes.

MJ's Stats:
-Mary-Jane is a competent woman, and not entirely useless in a fight, though she really couldn't beat up anyone tougher than The Chameleon (whom she did, in fact, beat up). She's charismatic and Attractive enough to have really high natural stats in the Presence-based Skills, so she needs minimal ranks in them to push +9 or +10 in any of them. Her Acting Skill is only moderate (she was on one Soap and that was it), but as a model & Go-Go Dancer, she was world-class.

Image

Proof forever that MJ is The One. Suck it, Quesada.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
RUSCHE
Posts: 373
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:50 pm

Re: Jab's Builds! (Lizard! Mysterio! Dr. Octopus! The Stacys! Mary Jane!)

Post by RUSCHE »

When MJ shut the door and decided to stay versus doing what would have been easy shows how great comics can be . Years of the party girl erased in a few powerful panels. No action, no over the top dialog, just someone seeing a friend's pain and saying I am here. THIS is why I love comics. The power that it can make a secondary character great or destroy a primary one. (Hank Pym) .
Last edited by RUSCHE on Tue May 23, 2017 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IneloquentElephant
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:59 pm

Re: Jab's Builds! (Lizard! Mysterio! Dr. Octopus! The Stacys! Mary Jane!)

Post by IneloquentElephant »

The Death of Gwen Stacy holds a very special place in my heart. You see, when I was but a wee one, my uncle introduced me to comics. One day he handed me a comic and said, "Here, start with this one." No introduction, no information, and no reason. I looked at the cover and wondered who this 'spider-man' was, and why I should be reading this. So I dove into the comic and DEVOURED it. I loved it! I asked if he had more, and a smile crept across his face. He knew I was hooked!

I read a stack of comics that day, because this is how he kept them; in stacks around his basement. I finished my first foray with the death of Gwen Stacy: a girl I had just gotten to know and then lost in the same day. It stuck with me.

I read every single comic he owned. Hundreds over the course of the summer. They were well read and well loved and he wanted to share.


So thank you for reminding me of 'simpler' times when I wasn't aware of retcons or clone sagas, of depowering then repowering, of the dead rarely staying dead, or even of rebirths.
Go get 'em, tiger!
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Skaramine
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lizard! Mysterio! Dr. Octopus! The Stacys! Mary Jane!)

Post by Skaramine »

IneloquentElephant wrote: Tue May 23, 2017 3:28 pm The Death of Gwen Stacy holds a very special place in my heart.

>snip<

Go get 'em, tiger!
Far from Ineloquent, sir. Well said.
The ATT member formerly known as both MorningKnight and Power-Glove.
Just call me Doug.
Spectrum
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Goblins! The Lizard! Mysterio! Dr. Octopus!)

Post by Spectrum »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 2:14 pm So I'm FINALLY back in town now- I gotta start taking shorter vacations :). Europe was fun, though Paris gives off the impression that it's absolutely full of criminals with warnings of pickpockets EVERYWHERE. And OF COURSE my checked bag didn't make it back with me- they told me it'd be there the whole way, but then the girl says "you were probably supposed to pick it up in Calgary". It's a huge inconvenience to lose ALL my toiletries at once, AND that's where I put my Wicked program that I got signed by most of the cast- they better goddamn well have it back here quickly. Remind me NEVER to check bags ever again. I know long-time travelers recommend that for a reason.
Yay! Welcome back!
We rise from the ashes so that new legends can be born.
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