Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Bambi, Candi & Randi

Post by Jabroniville »

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BAMBI, CANDI & RANDI (Barbara Modica, Candice Muggins & Miranda Couper)
Created By:
Al Milgrom & Herb Trimpe
First Appearance: The Spectacular Spider-Man #99 (Feb. 1985)
Role: Minor Obstacles, Sorta-Fanservice
Group Affiliations: None
PL 0 (6)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Expertise (Sunbathing) 4 (+4)

Advantages:
None

Offense:
Unarmed +0 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +0 (DC 10), Parry +0 (DC 10), Toughness +0, Fortitude +0, Will +0

Complications:
Relationship (Each Other)- The three are good friends. Bambi is also a single mother.

Total: Abilities: 4 / Skills: 4--2 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 0 (6)

-These three (recommended by Spectrum) are short-lived Background Characters from The Spectacular Spider-Man, and represent the most old-school of threats to a superhero- the threat to his SECRET IDENTITY. See, these three girls (given stereotypical bimbo names, though they don't appear to be characterized that way) all lived in the same building as Peter Parker, and were avid sunbathers. And while three gorgeous babes sunning themselves isn't a bad thing to ANY heterosexual, red-blooded male, the fact that they chose to do this on the ROOF provided a problem- whenever Peter needed to change into Spider-Man, he usually needed to do so on that very rooftop (he couldn't very well change in the HALLWAY). And so there was this constant problem of the girls being in his trademark spot every time it was sunny outside. Eventually, however, Peter bought a place with his wife Mary Jane (this is probably when they moved to the then-becoming-trendy SoHo part of Manhattan), and the three girls disappeared from his life, like most Supporting Cast members do once a new creative team takes over a book.

-Sorta reminds of the way Secret Identities used to be a much bigger deal. Nowadays, most writers just ignore what used to be an omnipresent trope.

-The girls are the Bystanderiest of Bystanders, and thus don't have much going for them statistically. But they'd provide a heck of an annoyance for a hero with the "Secret" Complication for his Identity.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Judas Traveller

Post by Jabroniville »

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No one- not the writers, not the editors- seemed to know who or what the heck Judas was. He was seemingly this immensely powerful, quasi-mystical being with amazing abilities, but what was the real deal with him? ... But to be honest, a character like Traveller didn't really fit into Spider-Man's world."
-Spidey writer Glenn Greenberg


JUDAS TRAVELLER
Created By:
Terry Kavanah & Steven Butler
First Appearance: Web of Spider-Man #114 (Oct. 1994)
Role: Enigmatic Force
Villain Ranking: D-List (Forgotten)
Group Affiliations: N/A
PL 15 (156)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Expertise (Psychology) 4 (+8)
Intimidation 4 (+8)
Perception 4 (+7)

Advantages:
None

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Alter Perceptions"
Illusion 15 (All Senses) (Extras: Area 3) [120]

Offense:
Unarmed +0 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Illusion -- (+15 Illusion)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +0 (DC 10), Parry +0 (DC 10), Toughness +0, Fortitude +0, Will +3

Complications:
Secret (Everything Is A Lie)- Judas himself does not know his own identity, and appears victim to his own powers.
Relationship (Chakra)- One of his "Host" is apparently his love interest.

Total: Abilities: 30 / Skills: 12--6 / Advantages: 0 / Powers: 120 / Defenses: 0 (156)

-Probably Terry Kavanagh's worst introduction to the Spider-Mythos, Judas Traveller was both poorly-conceived, and poorly-done. He was introduced during the infamous Clone Saga, attempting to "analyze the true nature of evil". He utilized a vast number of strange powers, seemingly becoming an omnipotent "GMPC" combined with an enigmatic force.

-He stalked the world for centuries, trying to figure out how evil worked, with a "Host" of four people aiding him (Medea, Mister Nacht, Boone & Chakra). Plus a guy named Scrier, who is also an enigma, because OF COURSE HE IS. His group tests Spider-Man's skills while he gives Spider-Man various glimpses of harsh futures if he chooses the wrong path. He even forces Spider-Man to defend his own purpose in life in a court of villains beneath Ravencroft Asylum (basically ripping off a Batman: The Animated Series story where he ends up in Arkham, being defended by a DA who hates him against all of his villains, who blame Batman for their own lot in life). The villains sentence Spider-Man to death, but Kaine (who usually fights Spidey) intervenes and attempts to save him, at which point Judas throws everyone back into their cells, having gotten the answer he wanted.

-It was eventually revealed that IT WAS ALL A LIE, and Traveller in fact was a criminal psychologist who had a mental breakdown when his dormant Mutant Powers awakened- his ACTUAL powers are to "Alter Perception" (ie. illusions). Because of course it would have to end that way (even though various other stories now make no sense if he has no real powers). Probably for the best, seeing as how this kind of Vague Cosmic Mastermind is way outside the realm of typical Spider-Man comics, and was getting more and more stupid with the story. Having read several of the comics around this time, I can tell you that the whole Judas Traveller thing made absolutely not one bit of goddamned sense, and comes off like a pretentious hack spewing out literary feces with his "oh so special" super-powered character.

-A guy with a massively-powerful Illusion effect, Judas can effectively "fake" any kind of power he wants to: appearing gigantic, teleporting around, controlling minds, teleporting others, etc. Treating him as he usually appeared, you'd have to give him a massive Variable and tons of Skills. As it is, he's just a Criminal Psychologist at heart.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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KorokoMystia
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Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:42 pm

Re: Jab's Builds! (Carnage! Shriek! Carrion! Scorpion! Flash-Venom!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

Oh, Judas Traveller..He really didn't fit as a Spiderman villain. He seems like the kind of guy that would fight Dr. Strange or something. Plus the whole "he was faking his powers all along" thing was a pretty silly retcon. Like, it doesn't match up with some of the things he was shown doing, like depowering someone. Also, it looks like you've never statted his "Host". Then again, they're so minor and don't really affect anything, they may not even have enough information to be statted. It also surprises me that you appear to have never statted Leap-Frog, even though you've statted his son. They'd probably stat up similarly anyway, right?
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab's Builds! (Carnage! Shriek! Carrion! Scorpion! Flash-Venom!)

Post by Jabroniville »

KorokoMystia wrote: Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:44 pm Oh, Judas Traveller..He really didn't fit as a Spiderman villain. He seems like the kind of guy that would fight Dr. Strange or something. Plus the whole "he was faking his powers all along" thing was a pretty silly retcon. Like, it doesn't match up with some of the things he was shown doing, like depowering someone. Also, it looks like you've never statted his "Host". Then again, they're so minor and don't really affect anything, they may not even have enough information to be statted. It also surprises me that you appear to have never statted Leap-Frog, even though you've statted his son. They'd probably stat up similarly anyway, right?
For the Host, I just assumed they were mere Mooks or something, but I guess they had powers. But yeah, even ComicVine doesn't even give them bios. Hell, even the Marvel Database merely mentions that they exist, and doesn't give names. Plus, given that it's Judas Traveller we're talking about here, it's entirely likely they weren't actual people in the first place (evne though that doesn't make sense).

As for Leap-Frog... I dunno. I must have assumed I did. I mean, I did a "Daredevil" set, and I statted his son... he probably just got forgotten at some point. Actually, I probably just assumed he was the son of Frog-Man I or something.

So in short, I blame Spectrum for not including him on "The List" :).
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sat Jun 03, 2017 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Leap-Frog

Post by Jabroniville »

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THAT's what Stan Lee creates without Jack Kirby around?!?

LEAP-FROG I (Vincent Patilio)
Created By:
Stan Lee & Gene Colan
First Appearance: Daredevil #25 (Feb. 1967)
Role: Joke Villain
Group Affiliations: The Defenders Impersonators, The Emissaries of Evil, Damage Control
PL 6 (64), PL 7 (64) vs. Running Into Things
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Deception 4 (+4)
Perception 2 (+2)
Technology 4 (+8)

Advantages:
Inventor, Ranged Attack 2

Powers:
"Frog-Man Costume" (Flaws: Removable) [26]
Protection 3 (3)
"Spring-Loaded Legs" Leaping 3 (60 feet) (3)
"Unpredictable Coils"
Enhanced Dodge 5 (5)
Enhanced Advantages 2: Improved Initiative 2 (2)
Protection 4 (Extras: Impervious 9) (Flaws: Limited to Falling Damage or Running Into Things) (11)
"Bounce-Back Attack" Damage 4 (Extras: Reaction +3) (Flaws: Limited to When Bounced Into Something, Limited to the Following Round) (8)
-- (32 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Bounce-Back +6 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +1 (+9 Coils)

Defenses:
Dodge +1 (+6 Coils, DC 11-16), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +1 (+4 Costume, +8 Falling), Fortitude +3, Will +2

Complications:
Reputation (Silly Villain)
Responsibility (Destitute)- Vincent makes very little money.

Total: Abilities: 26 / Skills: 10--5 / Advantages: 3 / Powers: 26 / Defenses: 4 (64)

-Vincent Patilio somehow escaped statting until this point- his main claim to fame now is being the father of Frog-Man II, an absolute Joke Character, but he was originally just "one of those terrible Daredevil villains", which, as I've pointed out before, were just Stan Lee's WORST ideas, and proof that Jack Kirby was the superior "idea man" by far. A failed toy designer, Patilio designed a super-powered costume (I'd ask why someone who sucked and building toys could create an actual super-powered uniform, but since he based it off of a frog, I'm assuming he just had terrible ideas) and of course became a criminal. His luck as a crook was minimal, however, as his first act was to hold a lawyer named Matt Murdock hostage. Next, he joined Electro's Emissaries of Evil to fight DD (even THEN Spider-Man shared his bad guys; The Sandman was also mostly a Fantastic Four villain at this point), became a Journeyman Villain, and was arrested by Iron Man.

-The character disappeared after this Iron Man defeat, and ended up settling down with his wife and son. Falling into financial destitution and despair, Vincent watched his son Eugene use the Leap-Frog costume as Frog-Man (unrelated to the member of the Ani-Men of the same name)- at first he forbade this, but a team-up between the two caused the defeat of the White Rabbit, and the reward money eased their troubles. The two teamed up once more to stop a renewed Rabbit, and he's been retired ever since.

-A second Leap-Frog came about when Buford Lange put on an abandoned costume and started robbing small businesses. He was killed by his own autistic son when the boy didn't want to see his hero, Daredevil, hurt- Buford fell to his death. He was later used as one of many dead characters resurrected and turned into Hand minions, but he was slain again by Wolverine. This one-off joke was a Bendis creation.

-He stats up more or less like his son, Frog-Man II, but is smarter, having built the costume.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The horror... the horror...

Post by Jabroniville »

THE CLONE SAGA:
-Throughout the annals of comic book history, nothing will ever be QUITE as stupid as The Clone Saga. It's actually a bit freeing, though, to realize that it's completely impossible for anything to suck QUITE this much ever again. The saddest thing is, this story actually had the best of intentions, and could have actually been rather decent if it was reduced to the core concept.

-See, by this point in the 1990s, Spider-Man was in a bit of a quandary. Sales had fallen throughout the industry, comics were getting more and more grim, and Spider-Man himself was getting more and more extreme with each passing story. Fans thought he wasn't really FUN anymore- the never-ending series of crap that'd happened to him (always a running theme in the book) had basically spiralled into ridiculousness, with his parents turning out to be Androids, Aunt May dying, Harry Osborn dying, and more- he yelled alot, gave people savage beatings, and barely even JOKED anymore. Several of the creators had wanted to get back to the "Spider-Man of old", even getting rid of his marriage to Mary Jane (sound familiar?). And so... Marvel wanted to try something.

And so...:
-In the original Clone Saga by Gerry Conway, The Jackal had created a Spider-Clone and a Gwen-Clone, but the two Spideys team up after a fight in Shea Stadium, with the Clone being killed by a bomb- The Jackal dies as well. In the 1990s, they (being Editor Howard Mackie, and writers Terry Kavanagh, J.M. DeMatteis and a few others) went back to this story, saying that the dead Spider-Man had never been killed at all, and instead went on to form a new life as Ben Reilly! Ben would follow Spider-Man around, and lecture him about stuff the fans had complained about- "You're not FUN anymore!"- that kind of stuff. The two ended up teaming up, and were opposed by Kaine, an "unsuccessful", evil, scarred Peter Clone. Things seemed to be on solid ground at the beginning- the dive into comics history actually interested a lot of fans, and sales increased. SO MUCH SO, in fact, that Marvel's Editors demanded the story, meant to only run for a few months, to be increased in length, with no ending in sight!

-And, in the most-infamous bad idea in Spidey's history, it was revealed that Ben Reilly was the ORIGINAL SPIDER-MAN ALL ALONG, and that it was Peter, the guy we'd been reading for the past twenty years, who was the clone! And fans. F*cking. LOST IT. I can't even imagine what the late '90s version of the internet looked like at the time, but absolutely everyone knew that this was completely ridiculous, and a slap in the face (much the way Simpsons fans and actors felt about the "Principal Skinner is actually Arnim Tamzarian" plot twist). Now... the base concept is solid, storytelling-wise. Imagine the psychic blow to the hero if he discovers that he was just a test tube creation this entire time, and that his entire life was a lie. The opportunities for great plots are endless here. You could have actually run the beginning, middle and end of the story and had a satisfying conclusion (this was the original intent, if the creators are to be believed- a three or four-month story arc).
-But instead? Instead, Marvel ran with it, simply having Peter "retire" and run off with the pregnant Mary Jane, and this completely new guy Ben Reilly take over in the title roll in ALL of the books. And we were clearly meant to take it at face value that no, Ben was the One True Peter, and we were supposed to accept him. He was even the Spidey shown in Marvel (vs) DC! He got a spiffy new costume (one later used for Mayday Parker's Spider-Girl).

-And this idiocy got compounded with all of the various bad ideas from this time period- vaguely-powered Mystery Guy Judas Traveller became a nuisance, and showed incredible power levels. Kaine was joined by SPIDERCIDE, also an evil Clone. Eventually, they changed the name of the story to Maximum Clonage (initially a joke, mimicking the unpopular-amongst-the-staff Maximum Carnage, jokingly called "Maximum Garbage" behind the scenes... an Editor soon fell in love with the idea and kept the name), and the heroes were faced with a literal ARMY of Spider-Man Clones! Things compounded when Doctor Octopus, Spidey's biggest villain left standing (especially now that Venom was on iffy ground), was casually-murdered when Kaine snuck up behind him and snapped his neck. Editors left the book in mid-storyline thanks to shake-ups at Marvel (due to their Bankruptcy Hearings, and Tom DeFalco being fired as Editor-In-Chief). All in the name of getting Spidey "Back To Basics".

-And did I mention the story's LENGTH? ALL FOUR SPIDER-MAN books, each running monthly, ran with this story arc from October 1994 to December 1996, and even added spin-offs, one-shots and more. The Collected Edition of these comics is running on FIVE VOLUMES of jumbo-sized Trade Paperbacks! This was the Mega-Crossover among Crossovers, meant to rival The Death of Superman and Knightfall, both doing gangbusters business over at DC.
-When The Age of Apocalypse hit big for the X-Men, every book was forced to become MORE open-ended by new Spider-Editor Bob Budiansky, compounding the disaster. J.M. DeMatteis quite out of creative exhaustion, and the whole line was relaunched. Ironically, this attempt to simplify the Spidey books, and get things "Back To Basics" had instead over-complicated them under a pile of Retcons, Ass-Pulls and contradictory plot threads. Budianksy was later downsized, other writers (like Dan Jurgens) had quit, and proposed solutions were nixed by new EIC Bob Harras.

The Result:
-Marvel had a full-blown disaster on their hands- fans HATED the changes, and felt that the whole "You've been reading the adventures of a Clone for 20 years! PSYCHE!" plot twist was insulting and awful. In a desperate move, new Editor Ralph Macchio brought NORMAN OSBORN out of the mothballs (he'd been dead since the early 1970s), killed Ben Reilly off, and revealed that Peter WAS the original after all. The Saga itself was basically brushed under the rug, Ben's entire Supporting Cast was dumped with no mention (something that really pissed off a wrestling reviewer/commentator whose work I read- he basically gave up comics over the dumping of Ben Reilly), and they spent as little time referencing the story ever again. Even The Jackal, one of the names of the story, was dumped for a decade. Today, the story arc stands as the lowest point in Spider-Man's history, and proof that the character can survive ANYTHING. There are maybe two or three other characters in the history of comic books who could have survived a storyline that was so long, and so bad.

-The most damning thing about the whole storyline? On nearly any comic forum, you'll find at least ONE GUY who's an Apologist Andy for some stupid thing or another. But The Clone Saga? Finding an Apologist for that is INCREDIBLY-rare. There's that big Annotated Clone Saga website, but man... even *I* can't manage to read that much stuff about one subject, and I'm responsible for THIS THREAD! Marvel had to bring in superstar writer J. Michael Straczynski, God of Dorks, just to save the book, and even cancelled the rest of the line, finally reducing the "Four Books a Month" thing (only adding another book later). To this day, the Clone Saga is probably the single worst thing ever done in the history of comics, and that's INCLUDING allowing Rob Liefeld to still draw breath.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Jackal

Post by Jabroniville »

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If I live to be 100, I will never understand why they saw fit to make THE GRINCH into a Spider-Man villain.

THE JACKAL (Professor Miles Warren)
Created By:
Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, Gerry Conway & Ross Andru
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #31 (Dec. 1965- Warren), #129 (Feb. 1974- Jackal)
Role: Clone Saga Instigator, Supporting Cast Teacher-Turned-Villain, Schemer
Villain Ranking: C-Level (was once B-Level)
Group Affiliations: Empire State University
PL 8 (138)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 6 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 9 (+12)
Expertise (Science) 8 (+14)
Expertise (Science) 4 (+18) -- Flaws: Limited to Biology/Cloning
Insight 4 (+7)
Intimidation 7 (+10)
Perception 6 (+9)
Stealth 3 (+5)
Technology 5 (+11)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll, Equipment (Lab), Fast Grab, Grab Finesse, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Skill Mastery (Science), Startle, Ultimate Science Skill

Powers:
"The Jackal Costume" (Flaws: Removable) [20]
"Drug-Tipped Claws"
Strength-Damage +1 Linked to Affliction 6 (Fort; Fatigued/Exhausted/Incapacitated) (Extras: Cumulative, Progression +2) (25 points)

"HAW IT WAS A CLONE!" Immortality 2 (Flaws: Requires a Clone) [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Claws +10 (+4 Damage & +6 Affliction, DC 19 & 16)
Initiative +6

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +4 (+5 D.Roll), Fortitude +7, Will +7

Complications:
Obsession (Gwen Stacy, Cloning)- Having gone insane, Warren became obsessed with his student, Gwen. When she died, he became consumed with revenge against Spider-Man (who was part of her death), in addition to growing more and more into his cloning experiments.

Total: Abilities: 66 / Skills: 46--23 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 22 / Defenses: 15 (138)

The Jackal- Like the Grinch, But Dumber-Looking:
-The Jackal is one of the more "forgotten" Spider-Man villains, in spite of his major part in Spidey history. I think I would have hated him even if he HADN'T been instrumental to The Clone Saga- his giant fuzzy Grinch outfit would have seen to that.

-Introduced WAY early as Professor Miles Warren, Peter's main teacher at University, he pulled the usual "Spider-Man supporting characters becomes a superhuman" trick after nine years, having fallen in love with Gwen Stacy, then sworn vengeance upon Spider-Man for his part in her death. Snapping completely, he became a Goblin-esque "Mastermind" sort, sending various characters after Spider-Man (including some guy called The Punisher), and incited the gang war between Hammerhead & Dr. Octopus. He then revealed an obsession with cloning (retconned as him having once worked for The High Evolutionary and developing a split personality), and began pumping out clones of himself (one which gained the Carrion virus), Peter Parker (whom he eventually discovered was Spider-Man), and finally, his beloved Gwen Stacy- I can only imagine that fans were shocked to see GWEN of all people show up so soon after her death; having her be a Clone probably would've been unexpected at the time. He set Spidey against his "perfect" Clone in a battle to the death- a bomb killed both The Jackal and his Spider-Man clone, and the Gwen clone (who had betrayed Jackal in the end) moved on to a new life.

The Jackal Returns; Ruins Spider-Man:
-If ONLY they had left things there, with a short, fun-sounding little story (I mean, a GWEN resurrection tease?). But instead, the Marvel writers, having gone insane, decided to try something new in the mid-'90s. The Jackal who died was revealed to have been a clone, and the Spidey Clone had SURVIVED, and gone on to become Ben Reilly, The Scarlet Spider (oh, and the dead Jackal clone actually survived too- marrying Gwen's clone, but dying). Jackal forms a Clone Army as the centerpoint to The Clone Saga, but is killed falling off a skyscraper while trying to save the Gwen Clone.

-Eventually, it was revealed that Norman Osborn (who was resurrected to save Marvel from the garbage of this storyline) had been behind the whole thing- manipulating Warren from the beginning. A decade later, Warren was brought back as a name behind the Spider Island event, giving hundreds of New Yorkers Spider-Powers. Since then, he's popped up in various stories, usually acting as a manipulator & geneticist, and has "died" once or twice, then come back with the "HAW IT WAS A CLONE!" cliche. Personally, I find the "Evil Geneticist" thing to be a decent concept, but the character's so poisoned and goof that I don't think there's any saving him.

-The Jackal returned in the recent Clone Conspiracy story, as a manipulator who tried to resurrect various dead characters via cloning & transplanted memories, though most of this was undone. He is beaten and humiliated by a new Ben Reilly clone, who becomes the NEW Jackal, and the real Warren seemingly dies in one final struggle against Ben.

The Problem With Parker's Cast:
-Honestly, I hate the whole trend for Spider-Man's supporting cast to become either super-villains, dead, or emotionally-damaged wrecks. It's just kind of no fun after a point, and it ends up damaging what was once comics' greatest supporting cast. Flash Thompson is an alcoholic, Betty Brant is damaged, Ned Leeds is dead, MJ isn't his wife anymore, Gwen is dead, Miles Warren is dead, etc.

The Jackal's Stats:
-Being an incredibly smart scientist with alot of manipulative and planning powers, Jackal proves rather effective, despite being a weak PL 8 defensive fighter. He can defeat Spider-Man, but only by VERY careful planning, otherwise he'd get his head kicked in. I'm still not quite sure how they justified him being a ripped melee fighter, considering he is both fairly old AND a Professor, but who knows? Eventually he gains some real powers.

THE JACKAL (Professor Miles Warren)- Upgraded Form
Created By:
Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, Gerry Conway & Ross Andru
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #31 (Dec. 1965- Warren), #129 (Feb. 1974- Jackal)
Role: Clone Saga Instigator, Supporting Cast Teacher-Turned-Villain, Schemer
Villain Ranking: C-Level (was once B-Level)
Group Affiliations: Empire State University
PL 10 (132)
STRENGTH
3/7 STAMINA 4/7 AGILITY 4/6
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 6 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 9 (+12)
Expertise (Science) 8 (+14)
Expertise (Science) 4 (+18) -- Flaws: Limited to Biology/Cloning
Insight 4 (+7)
Intimidation 7 (+10)
Perception 6 (+9)
Stealth 3 (+5)
Technology 5 (+11)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Defensive Attack, Equipment (Lab), Fast Grab, Grab Finesse, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Skill Mastery (Science), Startle, Ultimate Science Skill

Powers:
"Jackal Physiology"
Enhanced Strength 4 [8]
Enhanced Stamina 3 [6]
Enhanced Agility 2 [4]

"Claws" Strength-Damage +1 [1]
Leaping 1 (15 feet) [1]
"Animal Senses" Senses 4 (Acute & Extended Scent, Ultra-Hearing, Low-Light Vision) [4]

"HAW IT WAS A CLONE!" Immortality 2 (Flaws: Requires a Clone) [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Claws +10 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +11 (DC 21), Toughness +7, Fortitude +9, Will +6

Complications:
Obsession (Gwen Stacy, Cloning)- Having gone insane, Warren became obsessed with his student, Gwen. When she died, he became consumed with revenge against Spider-Man (who was part of her death), in addition to growing more and more into his cloning experiments.

Total: Abilities: 66 / Skills: 46--23 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 24 / Defenses: 13 (132)

-This is the Clone (or the regenerated original, I forget, and his whole origin is so full of this crap I don't care anymore), possessing some animal abilities to bring him more into a realistic physical threat against Spider-Man. Unfortunately, this gives him identical powers to like a DOZEN Spider-Man enemies, but whatever.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Ben Reilly

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

THE BEN REILLY IT BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

THE SCARLET SPIDER I (Ben Reilly, aka Peter Parker, Spider-Man II)
Created By:
Gerry Conway & Russ Andru
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man #149 (Oct. 1975)
Role: The Ultimate Replacement Scrappy, Symbolic Destroyer of Marvel Comics in the 1990s
Group Affiliations: The New Warriors
PL 11 (207)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA 7 AGILITY 8/10
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+8/+10)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 4 (+11)
Deception 8 (+10)
Expertise (Photographer) 5 (+10)
Expertise (Current Events) 1 (+6)
Expertise (Science) 4 (+9)
Insight 4 (+7)
Intimidation 2 (+4)
Investigation 3 (+6)
Perception 2 (+5)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Webbing) 8 (+12)
Stealth 4 (+10/+12)
Technology 5 (+10)

Advantages: 
Accurate Attack, Agile Feint, Beginner's Luck, Equipment (Spider-Tracers, Camera, Spider-Flashlight), Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Follow-Up Strike, Great Endurance, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Jack-of-All-Trades, Last Stand, Luck, Ranged Attack 2, Second Chance (Falling), Takedown 2, Taunt

Powers:
"Proportionate Strength of a Spider" 
Power Lifting 1 (12 tons) [1]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]

"Spider-Powers" 
Movement 2 (Wall-Crawling 2) [4]
Speed 2 [2]

"Spider-Sense- Warns of Danger & Boosts Agility"
Senses 1 (Danger Sense) [1]
Enhanced Agility 2 [4]
Enhanced Skills 18: Acrobatics 8 (+18), Perception 10 (+15) [9]
Enhanced Advantages 11: Defensive Attack, Defensive Strike, Evasion 2, Improved Defense, Move-By Action, Precise Attack (Ranged/Concealment), Seize Initiative, Skill Mastery (Acrobatics), Ultimate Acrobatics, Uncanny Dodge (Spider-Sense) [11]
Enhanced Dodge 2 [2]
Enhanced Parry 2 [2]

"Web-Shooters" (Flaws: Removable) [26]
"Web-Line" Movement 1 (Swinging) (2)
"Spider-Web" Snare 8 (Feats: Split, Tether) (26) -- (30)
  • AE: "Blind With Webs" Dazzle Visuals 8 (16)
  • AE: "Web Objects" Create 5 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Continuous) (Flaws: Permanent) (11)
  • AE: "Impact Webbing" Snare 10 (Extras: Area- Burst) (Flaws: Half-Range on Burst -1/2) (25)
  • AE: "Stingers" Affliction 7 (Fort; Fatigued/Stunned/Paralyzed) (Extras: Ranged, Cumulative) (21)
-- (32 points)

Equipment:
Spider-Tracers (Detect Radio, Ranged, Tracking) (3)
Fancy-Ass Camera (1)
Spider-Flashlight (1)

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Spider-Web +12 (+8 Ranged Affliction, DC 18)
Impact Webbing +12 (+10 Ranged Affliction, DC 20)
Dazzle +12 (+8 Ranged Affliction, DC 18)
Initiative +8 (+10 Spider-Sense)

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (+12 Spider-Sense, DC 22), Parry +10 (+12 Spider-Sense, DC 22), Toughness +7, Fortitude +8, Will +9

Complications:
Relationship (Janine Goodbe, Jessica Carradine & Desiree Winthrop)- Ben goes right into the "Swinging Bachelor Spider-Man" mode, hooking up with various women. Jessica turns out to be the daughter of The Burglar.
Relationship (Peter Parker)- Ben is still close to his "Clone", and wishes him the best.
Enemy (Various)- Peter's entire Rogues Gallery still dislike Ben, and only a few (such as Mysterio) ever discover that they're dealing with a different man.
Secret (Not Always Spider-Man)- Ben missed several years as being Spider-Man. This means he's missed out on certain missions, lacks some of Peter's experience, and doesn't know certain people. He wishes to keep the whole thing secret, however.

Total: Abilities: 84 / Skills: 56--28 / Advantages: 21 / Powers: 64 / Defenses: 10 (207)

Ben Reilly- Synonymous With Failure:
-Like I said, the whole "Ben Reilly" story- being revealed as the "True" Spider-Man, only to die in the end, sacrificing himself to save Peter's life, then decaying to reveal he was a Clone after all- would have been fine. I'm not a fan of one of the original ideas, which would have spun Ben off into his own series (Tom DeFalco, EIC of Marvel, had done the same thing with Thor & Thunderstrike, ending up with two books running simultaneously), but that wouldn't have been SO bad. But randomly-deciding to simple remake the entire "Bachelor Spider-Man" tale with an all-new guy was just doomed to failure from the beginning- it hasn't worked the times they've tried it with PETER since he married MJ, and it didn't work with the new guy just because he had a different real name.

-The whole idea that '70s Spider-Man was less morose and whiny than '90s Spider-Man was false to begin with. The guy was miserable all the damn time, despite having some of the hottest women in comics history for girlfriends- Gwen was dead, Captain Stacy was dead, his guilt was through the stratosphere, Aunt May was always at death's door, Harry Osborn was going nuts, etc... the guy had a rough go of it. So acting like Ben was this funny, cool guy all of a sudden rang false.

Ben's Return:
-Okay, so some gigantic idiot decided to type out literally everything Ben has ever done since his return onto Wikipedia, regardless of importance, so I'll have to wade through it and hopefully pick up on something. 

-Ben has gone through a bit of a renaissance over the years, as The TRUE Clone Saga was released, giving things a much more satisfying conclusion. Some teases were made here and there (a guy hunts Peter Parker, thinking him Ben; Kraven dresses up as Ben to fight Kaine), but he ultimately returned as a clone created by The Jackal. However, Ben usurped the Jackal's role, becoming a weird Cloner, getting Spider-Man's Rogues to work for him, in payment for having their loved ones resurrected. This results in various baddies running around (including an all-new Superior Doctor Octopus), and Ben offers Peter the resurrection of their Uncle Ben- his ultimate goal is to get everyone to be cured of their pain. Unfortunately it turns out he's generally nuts, and he orders the Rogues to kill Spidey when Peter tells him that Ben would go all "you're not acting responsibly", and THAT's why he hasn't resurrected Ben yet.

-So it becomes a huge fight, and Ben seemingly dies, but escapes along with Doc Ock (who fought him when he insulted Anna Maria's dwarfism), and possibly kills The Jackal in the process. He ends up in a new vigilante role in Las Vegas, forcing people to pay for their rescues. We'll see what becomes of the new, crazy/evil Ben Reilly.

-Aaaand stats-wise, Ben Reilly is basically Peter circa the '80s, but I played up his slightly better tech (he put Impact Webbing and Stingers onto his wrist gauntlet web shooters, providing a much tougher Snare and a minor KOing dart), leaving him just short of "standard" '90s Spidey, who was more experienced and polished overall. He's a PL 11 as far as his Impact Webbing goes, but that's it.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Kaine

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

KAINE (Peter Parker, aka The Scarlet Spider II)
Created By:
Terry Kavanah & Steven Butler
First Appearance: The Web of Spider-Man #119 (Dec. 1994)
Role: Mirror-Image Villain, Spin-Off Hero
Group Affiliations: The New Warriors
PL 12 (185)
STRENGTH
9 STAMINA 9 AGILITY 8/10
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+10/+12)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 4 (+13)
Deception 8 (+10)
Expertise (Current Events) 2 (+5)
Insight 4 (+6)
Intimidation 9 (+11)
Investigation 4 (+7)
Perception 2 (+5)
Stealth 6 (+12/+14)
Technology 3 (+6)

Advantages: 
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Agile Feint, Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Last Stand (Ignores Damage For 1 Round With HP Spent), Second Chance (Falling), Takedown 2, Startle, Withstand Damage (Trade Defenses For Toughness)

Powers:
"Immune to Spider-Sense" Concealment (Spider-Sense) 1 (Extras: Continuous) [3]

"Proportionate Strength of a Spider" 
Power Lifting 1 (25 tons) [1]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]

"Spider-Powers" 
Movement 4 (Wall-Crawling 2, Sure-Footed 2) [8]
Speed 2 [2]

"Spider-Sense- Warns of Danger & Boosts Agility"
Senses 5 (Danger Sense, Precognition) (Flaws: Uncontrolled Precog) [3]
Enhanced Agility 2 [4]
Enhanced Skills 18: Acrobatics 8 (+20), Perception 10 (+15) [9]
Enhanced Advantages 10: Defensive Attack, Evasion 2, Improved Defense, Improved Initiative, Move-By Action, Seize Initiative, Skill Mastery (Acrobatics), Ultimate Acrobatics, Uncanny Dodge (Spider-Sense) [10]
Enhanced Dodge 3 [3]
Enhanced Parry 3 [3]

"The Mark of Kaine" Damage 5 [5]
"The Sting of Kaine" Feats: Piercing Instead of Unarmed Damage [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +13 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Initiative +8 (+14 Spider-Sense)

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (+12, +15 Spider-Sense, DC 25), Parry +12 (+15 Spider-Sense, DC 25), Toughness +9, Fortitude +11, Will +5

Complications:
Obsession (Spider-Man & Ben Reilly)
Prejudice (Deformities)- Kaine is covered in deformities and marks, and cannot pass for an ordinary human. He is also decaying slowly over time. This wore off when he became The Scarlet Spider.
Power Loss (Spider-Sense)- Similar to his own Immunity to Spider-Sense, Kaine cannot use his in relation to the other Parkers.

Total: Abilities: 88 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 14 / Powers: 54 / Defenses: 7 (185)

-Kaine is ANOTHER Peter Parker clone, this one a decaying husk that's long-since gone insane, and he obsessively seeks out both Peter & Ben Reilly, killing their enemies and marking them with "The Mark of Kaine". Of course, like most "I KILL super-villains!" guys, he made one big kill (Dr. Octopus), and then rested on his laurels (see The Upstarts in the X-books)... killing Kraven's son doesn't count. He stuck around during the Clone Saga, but became untouchable when that nearly sank all of Marvel- he went off to Europe, and disappeared for more than ten years. He showed up during the recent Kraven Resurrection arc because now it's OK to at least REFERENCE all the Clones, and actually became a pretty decent deal again- he aids Peter and the other Spider-People against the Kravinoffs. He sacrifices his life in a rare moment of nobility- taking Peter's place on the altar to bring back Kraven the Hunter (who comes back "lesser" because it was merely the CLONE that brought him back, not Peter). He rises from the grave as "The Tarantula", having been mutated.

-Kaine's stats are nearly modern Peter's with upgrades in strength and toughness, making him a PL 11.5 defensive, PL 11 melee fighter, and slightly more powerful than Peter himself. With New Villain Stink, he easily pummelled The Rhino to unconsciousness and fought off THREE Spider-Men at the same time (Pete, Ben & Spidercide), and even after that, settled into a fairly-powerful form. He was not imprinted with Peter's memories, making him much less-knowledgeable. As The Tarantula, he had Extra Limbs and some Web-Spinning stuff.

Image

Seriously, EVERY VARIANT OF THIS COSTUME IS COOL.

THE SCARLET SPIDER II (Kaine Parker, aka Peter Parker's Clone)
Created By:
Terry Kavanah & Steven Butler
First Appearance: The Web of Spider-Man #119 (Dec. 1994)
Role: Mirror-Image Villain, Spin-Off Hero
Group Affiliations: The New Warriors
PL 11 (209)
STRENGTH
9 STAMINA 9 AGILITY 8
FIGHTING 9 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+10)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 4 (+13)
Deception 8 (+10)
Expertise (Current Events) 2 (+5)
Insight 4 (+6)
Intimidation 9 (+11)
Investigation 4 (+7)
Perception 2 (+5)
Stealth 6 (+12/+14)
Technology 3 (+6)

Advantages: 
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Agile Feint, Diehard, Evasion, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Move-By Action, Last Stand (Ignores Damage For 1 Round With HP Spent), Second Chance (Falling), Takedown 2, Startle, Withstand Damage (Trade Defenses For Toughness)

Powers:
"Immune to Spider-Sense" Concealment (Spider-Sense) 1 (Extras: Continuous) [3]

"Proportionate Strength of a Spider" 
Power Lifting 1 (25 tons) [1]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]

"Spider-Powers" 
Movement 4 (Wall-Crawling 2, Sure-Footed 2) [8]
Speed 2 [2]

"Organic Web-Shooters"
"Stinger" Affliction 8 (Fort; Fatigued & Impaired/Exhausted & Stunned/Incapacitated & Paralyzed) (Feats: Dynamic) (Extras: Extra Condition, Progressive +2) (33) -- [42]
  • Dynamic AE: "Webbing" Snare 8 (Feats: Split, Tether, Dynamic) (27)
  • Dynamic AE: "Here's Web In Your Eye!" Dazzle Visuals 7 (Resisted By Dodge & Strength) (Feats: Dynamic) (Inaccurate -1) (12)
  • Dynamic AE: "Webline & Web-Net" Movement 2 (Swinging, Safe Fall) (Extras: Safe Fall is Affects Others Only +0) (Feats: Dynamic) (5)
  • AE: "Web Spray" Snare 6 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Cone +1/2) (Flaws: Touch Range) (18)
  • AE: "Stuff Made of Webbing" Create 6 (Feats: Innate) (Flaws: Permanent +0) (13)
  • AE: "The Mark of Kaine" Damage 5 (5)
"Stealth Suit" (Flaws: Removable) [13]
Concealment 3 (Visuals, Hearing) (6)
Immunity 10 (Sonic Effects) (10)
-- (16 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +13 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Initiative +8 (+14 Spider-Sense)

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +9, Fortitude +11, Will +5

Complications:
Obsession (Spider-Man & Ben Reilly)
Prejudice (Deformities)- Kaine is covered in deformities and marks, and cannot pass for an ordinary human. He is also decaying slowly over time. This wore off when he became The Scarlet Spider.
Power Loss (Spider-Sense)- Similar to his own Immunity to Spider-Sense, Kaine cannot use his in relation to the other Parkers.

Total: Abilities: 88 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 16 / Powers: 71 / Defenses: 12 (209)

-He becomes a recurring character once again- mutated and controlled by The Jackal during Spider Island- once cured, he becomes The Scarlet Spider, getting his own book in part of the ENDLESS spin-offs of Spidey's book. He joined The New Warriors, but the book was rapidly-cancelled (since it's a NEW WARRIORS BOOK, and those are seemingly-impossible to make work anymore). His own book is pretty self-contained, and involved him moving to Houston, mutating once or twice, fighting Kravinoffs again, and dealing with Gambit's ex-wife Belladonna, plus some Spider-Verse stuff. His Wikipedia page is one of those classic "A fan reads an issue and puts everything in it onto the page, even if it's not important at all" ones, so reading up on him's a bit of a pain in the ass. None of it looks terribly interesting- typical stuff that's basically just "you like Spidey, right? Well here's ANOTHER VERSION OF THAT CHARACTER!" as the endless Spin-Offication of the Marvel Universe continues at full speed.

-As The Scarlet Spider, Kaine gains a TON of abilities, mimicking Peter's abilities from "The Other", plus a Stealth Suit that Peter only wore for one storyline. However, he loses his Spider-Sense and Precognition, dropping his PL down a notch, despite the raise in his cost.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Spidercide

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

WHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!?!?!? WHY GOD WHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!?!?!?!

SPIDERCIDE (Peter Parker's Clone)
Created By:
Tom DeFalco & Sal Buscema
First Appearance: The Spectacular Spider-Man #222 (March 1995)
Role: Mirror-Image Villain, Yet Another ****ing Clone
Group Affiliations: N/A
PL 11 (224)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA 7 AGILITY 8/10
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+10/+12)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 5 (+12)
Deception 8 (+10)
Expertise (Current Events) 3 (+6)
Intimidation 9 (+11)
Investigation 4 (+7)
Perception 2 (+5)
Ranged Combat (Webbing) 9 (+13)
Stealth 6 (+12/+14)
Technology 3 (+6)

Advantages: 
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Agile Feint, Diehard, Extraordinary Effort, Fast Grab, Follow-Up Strike, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Ranged Attack 2, Second Chance (Falling), Takedown 2, Startle

Powers:
"Immune to Spider-Sense" Concealment (Spider-Sense) 1 (Extras: Continuous) [3]

"Proportionate Strength of a Spider" 
Power Lifting 1 (12 tons) [1]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]

"Spider-Powers" 
Movement 2 (Wall-Crawling 2) [4]
Speed 2 [2]

"Spider-Sense- Warns of Danger & Boosts Agility"
Senses 5 (Danger Sense, Precognition) (Flaws: Uncontrolled Precog) [3]
Enhanced Agility 2 [4]
Enhanced Skills 16: Acrobatics 6 (+18), Perception 10 (+15) [8]
Enhanced Advantages 10: Defensive Attack, Evasion 2, Improved Defense, Improved Initiative, Move-By Action, Seize Initiative, Skill Mastery (Acrobatics), Ultimate Acrobatics, Uncanny Dodge (Spider-Sense) [10]
Enhanced Dodge 3 [3]
Enhanced Parry 4 [4]

"Freaky Bodily-Control Powers"
Regeneration 8 [8]
Growth 8 (Str & Sta +4, +8 Mass, +4 Intimidation, -4 Dodge/Parry, +2 Speed) -- (24 feet) (8) -- [12]
  • AE: Shrinking 8 (8)
  • AE: "Form Weapons" Strength-Damage +2 & Protection 2 (4)
  • AE: Insubstantial 1 (Feats: Selective) (6)
  • AE: "Shapeshift" Morph 2 (Humanoids) (Flaws: Limited to Spidey-Based People) (8)
"Organic Web-Shooters"
"Web-Line" Movement 1 (Swinging) [2]
"Spider-Web" Snare 8 (Feats: Split, Tether) (26) -- [28]
  • AE: "Blind With Webs" Dazzle Visuals 8 (16)
  • AE: "Web Objects" Create 5 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Continuous) (Flaws: Permanent) (11)
-- (30 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Growth +10 (+12 Damage, DC 26)
Spider-Web +14 (+8 Ranged Affliction, DC 18)
Dazzle +14 (+8 Ranged Affliction, DC 18)
Initiative +8 (+14 Spider-Sense)

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (+11, +14 Spider-Sense, DC 24), Parry +10 (+13 Spider-Sense, DC 23), Toughness +7 (+9 Protection/Growth, Fortitude +10, Will +5

Complications:
Obsession (Spider-Man, Ben Reilly & Kaine)
Power Loss (Spider-Sense)- Similar to his own Immunity to Spider-Sense, Spidercide cannot use his in relation to the other Parkers.

Total: Abilities: 78 / Skills: 52--26 / Advantages: 15 / Powers: 94 / Defenses: 11 (224)

-Yes, they really thought it would be a cool idea to add ANOTHER clone to the mix- at one point we had FOUR SPIDER-MEN running around! And Marvel wonders why this nearly sank the franchise. Spidercide was basically entirely controlled by The Jackal, but then betrayed him, and is currently a frozen goo in some place somewhere, where the writers will probably never want to use him again. He's basically Spidey plus internalized webbing and Shapeshifting, allowing him to grow, shrink, form weapons, be tougher, and Regenerate. He's a much more expensive version of '90s Spider-Man in that regard.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab's Builds! (Carnage! Carrion! Scorpion! Flash-Venom! Clone Saga!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Stormson's take on The Clone Saga:
Whats funny is I have completely different memories of the the Clone Saga. I wouldn't go as far as to say "Im an apologist" for it, but this was when I was reading Spidey and had subscriptions to his books and everything. Everything felt fluid and made sense.

It was a specific point that in the original Clone story that Pete himself was unsure if he was the clone or not, and had tests done, but then discarded the test results without reading them because his newfound love for Mary Jane couldn't be cloned, or some sort of thing. This may have just been clever reprint manipulation to set up the clone saga, I certainly never saw the original story except for the reprint done to set it up, but the hook and possibility was -always- there.

Second, it was pretty obvious the "reveal" was a fraud, because Ben Reilly's bestest everest friend scientist Dr Trainor was the one that actually did the second testing, and produced the results. I agree at this point is when it should have been resolved instead of extended further, but I also did like the follow up of Ben-Spidey and the concept that Poor Pete, who life had completely hosed over the last 20 years aside from MJ, was able to go retire in peace. There was miniseries about retired Pete and MJ and I remember liking it a bit, or maybe it was just a single issue.

The storyline did have some absolute stink elements however, the first and foremost being Kaine. His motivations were murky at best, his costume was terrible, and his actions in the story were always train wrecks. Which makes it odd that Slott -somehow- dug him back up and redeemed him, of all things, from this plot.

Also, I still recall the plot attempted to be completely torpedo'd by Wizard Magazine at the time, before it was even published, and they were doing a pretty active smear campaign against it, while it was actually still good, which annoyed me at the time.

I still liked Ben and his run, and was kind of sad how he went out, and it was probably the start of me falling out of comics.
I find his point about Wizard Magazine interesting. As they were the sole major purveyor of comic book news, in the days before the internet was THAT common, they held a lot of sway in the industry- they were able to make memes out of things quite easily, and their sass-talk could break a book once they'd been burned on something- essentially like if movie critics held any real power. So his point that they shat on the Clone Saga early on and fomented displeasure about it really makes me think.
RainOnTheSun
Posts: 1152
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 7:20 am

Re: Jab's Builds! (Carnage! Carrion! Scorpion! Flash-Venom! Clone Saga!)

Post by RainOnTheSun »

Oh, Spidercide. What can I possibly say to do you justice?

An eight foot tall Spider-Man.

Who is also a T-1000.

With a mask-mouth like Venom's, but with ordinary person teeth and no giant tongue.

And reploid boots.

And his name is Spidercide.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Spider-Mooks

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

GARDEN VARIETY THUG WITH SPIDER-POWERS
Role:
Elite Mook
Group Affiliations: None
PL 7 (92)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA 7 AGILITY 2/4
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+4)
Deception 3 (+3)
Expertise (Criminal) 3 (+3)
Intimidation 4 (+4)
Stealth 2 (+3)

Advantages:
Fast Grab, Improvised Weapon, Ranged Attack 1

Powers:
"Proportionate Strength of a Spider"
Power Lifting 1 (12 tons) [1]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]

"Spider-Powers"
Movement 2 (Wall-Crawling 2) [4]
Speed 2 [2]

"Spider-Sense- Warns of Danger & Boosts Agility"
Senses 1 (Danger Sense) [1]
Enhanced Agility 2 [4]
Enhanced Skills 18: Acrobatics 8 (+20), Perception 10 (+15) [9]
Enhanced Advantages 7: Defensive Attack, Evasion 2, Improved Defense, Improved Initiative, Move-By Action, Seize Initiative [7]
Enhanced Dodge 3 [3]
Enhanced Parry 2 [2]

"Web-Shooters"
"Web-Line" Movement 1 (Swinging) [2]
"Spider-Web" Snare 8 (Feats: Split, Tether) [26]

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Spider-Web +3 (+8 Ranged Affliction, DC 18)
Initiative +7

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +7, Fortitude +7, Will +0

Total: Abilities: 48 / Skills: 14--7 / Advantages: 3 / Powers: 63 / Defenses: 1 (92)

-This is what happens when you add Spider-Man's Powers to a random Mook- they become PL 7 Thugs (though evidence suggests the Mook Rule is still in effect- they go down FAST) who are strong enough to put a dent in Carol Danvers or Ben Grimm, and that makes them dangerous.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab's Builds! (Carnage! Carrion! Scorpion! Flash-Venom! Clone Saga!)

Post by Jabroniville »

SPIDER-MAN: AVATAR OF SPIDERS OR WHATEVER THE HELL:
-MAN did I ever get off on the wrong foot with the J. Michael Straczinski run on Spider-Man. At the end of the Clone Saga, with sales in a tailspin and Spider-Man damaged like never before, I should have been excited about it, like many other nerds were. But instead, I was spiteful. See, I was part of a big online community where we created our own Superhero Universe called "Something Unique", and there was a collaborator there with whom I'd butted heads on numerous occasions- he was a HUGE fan of Power-Geeking, and I felt that was ruining our stories (there were dozens of characters on our Earth that made Thor look like a pussy). Since we were both in our early 20s, we were rather immature, and often sniped at each other over ICQ all night long. And this guy was a HUGE fan of JMS and Babylon Five (he would write stuff like "JMS is a better writer than you. JMS is a better writer than me. JMS is a better writer than Gen"- naming another collaborator, and the most-respected writer there). So when JMS was announced as the new Spidey-writer and the first issue was released, I decided I would both hate the run, and insult my collaborator over ICQ about it.

-When I heard remarks that the new character Ezekiel was a "Mary Sue" (my introduction to the term, actually- a columnist online actually had to describe the term for a FULL PARAGRAPH because at the time, most readers wouldn't immediately get it), I taunted him over it, and pretty much shat all over the idea that SPIDER-MAN of all people needed a Mystical bent to his origin. We would argue back and forth like this, because he worshiped B5 like it literally cured cancer, and it was fun to egg him on about things that made JMS look bad. Like I said, early 20s.

-JMS is, truth be told, an iffy writer. It's actually quite annoying- at least with crappy writers you get CONSISTENT crap. With JMS, you're either getting brilliance, mediocre piffle, or absolute dreck. And you never know until you read it. The issue where Aunt May discovers that Peter is Spider-Man? Great stuff. But Spider-Man fighting Mystical Death Wizards and sprouting wrist-claws? DUMB. Even my friend, who also loves Babylon 5, agrees 100% with the comment I've heard that only Seasons 2 through 4 are any good- "it's like a great sandwich on crappy bread". Some of his Superman work was embarrassing, reputation-ruining garbage, from what I understand. Like the kind of stuff that made people lose respect for James "I was respected for my own personal baby Starman, but holy hell do I lick balls with any characters that aren't mine" Robinson.

-Though in all fairness, I still hate it. In the sense that I hate the IDEA of it. Spider-Man can deal with Mystical stuff without too much of a problem (he inhabits the same world as Dr. Strange and The Avengers, after all), but he works best as a SCIENCE GUY- all of this "oh no, you are part of THE WEB and you are the SPIDER-AVATAR!" stuff. Like he has to be an "Animal Avatar" because why ELSE would he always be fighting guys who represented animals? Aside from, you know, the fact that EVERYONE IN COMICS faces one specific type of bad guy like that- is Wolverine the "Claw Avatar" because half of his enemies have claws? Is Iron Man the Armor Avatar because he usually ends up taking on armored jobbers? Are X-Force's members the Avatars of Crappy Half-Assed Jobbers The Creative Team Just Took From the Artist's Sketchpad The Night Before? Then Spider-Man getting "killed", resurrecting by giving birth to himself, spouting off a bunch of random new powers (several of which are literally NEVER MENTIONED AGAIN after this story arc- he also has one of those "Power Ups" that goes nowhere as he's soon right at the same old level fighting the same guys the same way), and more.

-It basically adds a whole new wrinkle to the Spider-Mythos for no reason whatsoever, beyond what appears to be a writer's egomaniacal idea that he just has to put his own "stamp" on a character or work. John Byrne has a lot of that in himself as well, as does a lot of Rick Remender's current work, and it comes off as weak and silly in almost every case- a weird case of egotism. It was initially left up to the reader to decide how much of it to believe (Peter himself seems to pass it off like "I don't care if it's true or not- it doesn't change who I am"), but it later becomes absolute canon once Dan Slott writers his Spider-Verse story.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Ezekiel

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

EZEKIEL SIMS
Created By:
J. Michael Straczynski & John Romita, Jr.
First Appearance: Amazing Fantasy #30 (Vol. 2, June 2001)
Role: Mentor Figure
Group Affiliations: The Spider Society
PL 10 (148)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA 7 AGILITY 8/10
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 5 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 4 (+11)
Deception 4 (+7)
Expertise (Business) 10 (+15)
Insight 7 (+11)
Investigation 4 (+8)
Perception 4 (+8)
Persuasion 5 (+8)

Advantages:
Benefit (Wealth) 4, Great Endurance, Improved Trip, Jack-of-All-Trades, Takedown

Powers:
"Proportionate Strength of a Spider"
Power Lifting 1 (12 tons) [1]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]

"Spider-Powers"
Movement 2 (Wall-Crawling 2) [4]
Speed 2 [2]

"Spider-Sense- Warns of Danger & Boosts Agility"
Senses 1 (Danger Sense) [1]
Enhanced Agility 2 [4]
Enhanced Skills 10: Acrobatics 6 (+16), Perception 4 (+12) [5]
Enhanced Advantages 4: Evasion, Improved Defense, Improved Initiative, Move-By Action [4]
Enhanced Dodge 2 [2]
Enhanced Parry 4 [4]

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +8 (+14 Spider-Sense)

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (+10, +12 Spider-Sense, DC 22), Parry +9 (+13 Spider-Sense, DC 23), Toughness +7, Fortitude +9, Will +8

Complications:
Responsibility (His Company)
Motivation (Making Peter the Spider-Avatar)- Ezekiel wishes for Peter Parker to take on the responsibilities of becoming the Spider-Avatar, and is willing to sacrifice him to do it.

Total: Abilities: 84 / Skills: 38--19 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 29 / Defenses: 8 (148)

-Ezekiel brings up some curious debates in the Spidey-fandom, and I'm honestly not really sure how I feel about it, myself. Essentially, Zeke is a wealthy businessman who gained Spidey-like powers YEARS before Peter did, and brings up an interesting question: What if the radiation was meaningless, and the spider that bit young Peter was trying to give him powers all along? Now, that I think is kind of dumb, because "everything you know was a lie, and this is the way things REALLY work" reads like the plot of a bad FanFic, and no disrespect to the writers of such things out there, but I hate FanFic about as much as anything else on the internet. All this plot was missing to be MORE FanFic-like was if Spidey met up with a smart-mouthed teenage girl who had all his powers and was the secret daughter of two other Spidey-characters, and was better than Peter at everything and got to date the hottest guy around. Never mind how "Everything You Know Is Wrong" is one of the most dragged-out, endlessly-used cliches in modern comics, and arguably the thing I hate most about books that are released these days ("Surprise! There was a NEW team of X-Men between the original team and the Giant Size team! But they all died and so we never mentioned them!").

-But I digress- this led to Peter being some kind of "Spider-Avatar", fighting a wizard named Morlun who ate such things, and it explained why all his villains were animal-themed because of some inherent focus against a "true" avatar.

-Now, fanfic-like canon-shifts and explanations like that are only good when you greatly ADD to the storylines in general (sorta like Johns' VERY fanfic-like boosts to the Green Lantern mythos with the Emotional Spectrum- it's silly, but very comic-booky and added TONS of characters to the books). It turned out that Ezekiel wanted the responsibility of being the Spider-Avatar (like being attacked by stuff) to transfer to Peter, but he was unwilling to go through with it in the end- sacrificing his life to save Peter from a Giant Spider, after realizing that Pete had done nothing but help others with his powers, while Ezekiel had only benefitted himself. Years later, we'd find out that he kept Silk hidden away to protect her from Morlun.

-Ezekiel is kinda like a lower-level, less-trained Spider-Man, packing most of Peter's abilities onto a frame that hasn't been punched in the face by The Scorpion a hundred times. He's very bright, and a great businessman, but nothing super-amazing all on his own.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Feb 16, 2022 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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