Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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Ares
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Re: Idunn

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:02 pm
In recent years, however, she, Freyja & Gaea now rule Asgard as the "All Mothers".
. . . . because of course they do. Fuck modern Marvel.
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danelsan
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Dargo! Sif! Beta Ray Bill! Thermal Man! Odin!)

Post by danelsan »

Personally, I have no problem with that.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Dargo! Sif! Beta Ray Bill! Thermal Man! Odin!)

Post by Arkrite »

Honestly I think it could be a good idea if they had a good story in mind.

But at the moment it really just feels like the guys in charge trying to pander to a certain crowd rather than having a good story in mind.
But hey, who knows, maybe somebody can take a corporate mandate and squeeze something good out of it.

I mean, Batman Beyond was a bunch of suits telling the B:TAS group that they needed to have a teenage/kid Batman for their next series.
They wanted a "kid batman" who lived in an apartment with a hidden Batcave in a back alley.
Most of the B:TAS crew walked away shaking their head in disgust and one guy was like "Wait, no we can work with this!"
And let's be fair, it was a teenage Batman, but I just can't imagine Batman Beyond was actually what the bigwigs wanted ;~)
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Re: Tyr

Post by Yojimbo »

L-Space wrote: Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:00 pm Which is weird because Tyr was also the God of justice and heroic glory. Hel, that's why he was chosen by Fenris, because Tyr would keep his word no matter what.
Not really. The Norse pantheon didn't really have a lot of set "jobs" the way the Greek and Roman pantheons did. It doesn't help that every written resource we have on the Aesir and Vanir was produced by a Christian. Do we believe Adam of Bremen that Odin-worshipers made human sacrifice, or do we think that was just propaganda? Hard to say without hard archaeological evidence to back up either interpretation.

At least with the classical world, we have sources in the words of people who revered the Olympians and sacrificed in their name. Not so in Northern Europe. As well, a tribal people may not have codified their deities the same way that people who built city-states and empires did.

I'm pretty sure the idea of Tyr as god of justice and law comes directly from Deities and Demigods.

But again, the Marvel Universe is not mythology, and they're not bound to respect the source material as anything more than inspiration. Roy Thomas, huge fan of the Richard Wagner that he is, introduced a lot of Germanic stuff to the comics (Thor was Siegfried, according to Roy, for example) while Walt Simonson did try to fit in as much "authentic" Norse mythology as he could. I mean, before Walt took over, Odin had TWO EYES!

As for the All-Mother stuff, Odin's been made to do so much crap (entirely in keeping with a guy who was occasionally called "Bolverk," or evil-doer even by his followers) over the years at Marvel that any change in leadership would be welcome. Even Walt tried to slot Balder into that position, if only to give Balder something to do. When Jurgens made Thor king of Asgard, that series started to go off the rails. Still, anybody but Odin at this point.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Dargo! Sif! Beta Ray Bill! Thermal Man! Odin!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Yeah, the "Odin is a dick" stories go back to the '60s, but have only ramped up in modern times.
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Re: Odin

Post by Ares »

Davies wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:35 am
Jabroniville wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2017 4:18 am
-Odin is kind of a weird figure in the Thor books- despite being a mostly-benevolent King to his people, and a defender against MUCH worse threats, Odin is quite the prick. He slept around on Frigga to produce Thor with Gaea the Earth Mother (Frigga apparently... doesn't mind, I guess), frequently punishes Thor for "pride" and imagined slights, tries to break him up with mortal women, and usually doesn't even bother to help his son. No wonder Loki eventually betrayed him. He's still a bit better than Captain Crazypants Zeus, but not by much. I mean, he hates it when Thor spends too much time on Midgard, but HE BANGED THE GODDESS OF THE EARTH SO THOR WOULD BE PART OF BOTH WORLDS.
I actually think that was an unintended consequence, he just wanted his son to be extraordinarily powerful. <research> Yeah, here's Gaia telling it herself.

https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3 ... d13fe019-c
That whole retcon was just weird, and seemed to largely exist to explain why Thor constantly felt the need to involve himself in Earthly affairs. It couldn't just be that Thor, having lived as a mortal and learned actual humility, wanted to defend those in need and be a hero. He needed to have some kind of weird bloodline impulse to live on Earth. Its honestly something I'd ignore and just keep Thor as the son of Odin and Frigga.
As for Odin's modern dickishness ... well, that comes down to the same problem that pretty much every authority has in the comics, that modern writers really have a problem portraying authority as benevolent, and frequently define heroism as existing in perpetual opposition to authority.
greycrusader wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:05 am Ah, I don't think it can be attributed it to that at all...I mean, you can go back and read reprints/collections of old Thor comics from the 1970s and 80s and Odin was already acting like a capricious, haughty jerk a LOT of the time-while Thor comes off MUCH better than his mythological inspiration, the All-Father is worse in many respects, though his comic book portrayal is at least less about the berserking and slaughter, along with being a bit LESS promiscuous.

(Though at least the Norse pantheon were downright prudish compared to the Greeks).
Odin's precise level of dickishness is one of those "depending on the writer" things. From what I remember, Jack and Stan tended to make him a good ruler and authority figure, but in their usual way of humanizing characters, made him the kind of meddling parent a lot of teenagers could relate to. The thing they also did was, as often as Odin could come off as a jerk, it was also clear that he dearly love his son, and he was frequently right about things.

While Odin is demonized by the current Thor run of constantly trying to break up Thor and Jane, the incident that actual broke the pair up was Odin going "Fine, I will accept her as Thor's love interest and welcome her into Asgard, and even make her a goddess if that's what it takes. But she has to understand what being a part of Thor's life entails in its entirety." And when Jane is exposed to Asgard, she ultimately decides she doesn't want any part of it, and decides that she would rather just be a normal woman and date a normal person. While some people might find that sexist, in its own way it was fairly mature, showcasing how someone might be attracted to someone, but their lifestyle just might not be compatible with their own, the way someone might think marrying a celebrity or royalty might be.

So Odin generally had his dickish moments, balanced out by him being heroic, noble, in the right or just shown to be a flawed but loving father. In the last decade or so, however, Odin has basically been turned into an outright monster, coinciding with a lot of modern writers basically turning authority figures into horrible people that need to be overthrown. That it happened in the latest Thor run just makes the whole thing worse.
I think the two biggest examples of utter character-assassinations I can think of went down at DC: the 1990s decision by Morrison to turn the Chief of the Doom Patrol into a sociopathic megalomaniac and the recent subversion of the Guardians of the Universe as amoral, ruthless, and monstrous.
Agreed to both. Let me throw in Johns turning Nabu into basically a villain and the wizard Shazam into a doddering old idiot, as well as jobbing out the Spectre constantly. Johns himself seems to have a big problem with authority figures.
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Frigga

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image

Frigga: the only case where the comic version is the ugliest one.

FRIGGA
Created By:
Stan Lee, Robert Bernstein & Joe Sinnott
First Appearance: Journey Into Mystery #92 (May 1963)
Role: Queen of the Gods, Backgrounder
Group Affiliations: Asgard
PL 6 (86)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Expertise (God) 8 (+10)
Expertise (History) 5 (+8)
Perception 1 (+5)
Persuasion 4 (+8)

Advantages: 
Great Endurance

Powers:
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrowth) [3]
Immunity 10 (Aging, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Disease, Fatigue Effects) [10]
Immunity 4 (Drowning & Suffocation, Poison, Pressure) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +4 (DC 14), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +6, Fortitude +6, Will +5

Complications:
Responsibility (Asgard)

Total: Abilities: 56 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 15 / Defenses: 5 (86)

Frigg in Mythology: Called Frigg, Frija, Frea and Frige (from which we get "Friday", or "Frige's Day"), she is the Queen of the Gods. She is associated with foreknowledge and wisdom, but generally doesn't get up to much in the stories. She's just kind of... THERE, save for the story when she pledges all of creation to never cause her son Baldr harm- receiving a pledge from the elements, diseases, animals, stones and environment... save mistletoe, which was "too young" to receive such a demand. She is important as the mother of many of the major characters, such as Thor and Baldr.

-Frigga is an extremely minor character in the Thor comics, despite the fact that she's married to one of the major characters, and the stepmother to the main guy himself. Frigga really doesn't matter in the slightest until Walt Simonson takes over, and even then she's just a calm, dutiful old woman who guards the children of Asgard. Frigga is Odin's wife and the birth mother of Balder, but Thor is of course the son of Gaea in the comics. Still, she basically acts as Thor's mom, too. After Fear Itself, Frigga (also called "Freyja" now) takes over as "All Mother" of Asgard alongside Gaea & Idunn. She's also revealed to be the mother of Angela, who has arrived in the Marvel Universe.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Dargo! Sif! Beta Ray Bill! Thermal Man! Odin!)

Post by Ken »

In actual Norse myth, Frigg and Freya are different goddesses. Frigg is one of the AEsir (like Odin and Thor). Freya is one of the Vanir. Though, there is some belief that they both had the same Germanic "root goddess".
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Re: Tyr

Post by Ares »

danelsan wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:49 pm Personally, I have no problem with that.
Yojimbo wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:11 pm As for the All-Mother stuff, Odin's been made to do so much crap (entirely in keeping with a guy who was occasionally called "Bolverk," or evil-doer even by his followers) over the years at Marvel that any change in leadership would be welcome. Even Walt tried to slot Balder into that position, if only to give Balder something to do. When Jurgens made Thor king of Asgard, that series started to go off the rails. Still, anybody but Odin at this point.
Arkrite wrote: Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:53 pm Honestly I think it could be a good idea if they had a good story in mind.

But at the moment it really just feels like the guys in charge trying to pander to a certain crowd rather than having a good story in mind.
But hey, who knows, maybe somebody can take a corporate mandate and squeeze something good out of it.
Given the other things Jason Aaron has written in his run, I don't think for a second this was any kind of editorial mandate. This is entirely keeping with the direction of his Thor series.

And I suppose I should elaborate before I come off as an irrational member of the he-man woman hater's club. The idea of a woman running Asgard isn't an issue for me. I actually thought it was pretty cool when Sif was made temporary ruler of Asgard during one of Odin's naps, and frankly we were long overdue for Freyja to actually step up and run things in Odin's absence. And the idea of Odin having to be ousted as a ruler isn't bad in and of itself if it lead to actual character development for Odin. Like I've said, Odin generally gets portrayed as a good leader, noble warrior, heroic individual and a flawed but well meaning parent, but in recent years he's become an absolute tool. Having a storyline that addresses this and fixes it would be very welcome, help him get back to where he was instead of this mess he's become.

But to have it happen in the current run, with this writer, in this Marvel, and in this fashion? It reeks of agenda. Thor and Odin are both effectively kicked out of Asgard and considered "unworthy", Odin gets further character assassination, Jane is suddenly the best Mjolnir wielder ever while characters like Absorbing Man, Titania, Bor and even a young Thor are made "problematic". And now Asgard is ruled over by Gaea, Freyja and Idunn like Aaron either read the Dresden Files and decided to model them after the Fae Courts (instead of how Jim portrays Odin) or more likely just injecting some neo-Paganism into the work. What the Hell is Gaea even doing ruling Asgard? She's suppose to be, you know, bound to the planet Earth? How is "the Maiden" Idunn a mother figure?

It's like how the idea of someone using Captain America's face and reputation for evil isn't a bad story concept (and has been done well in previous series and in animation), but the timing and especially the execution were horribly done during Secret Empire (which was also poorly named since, you know, nothing secret about it). It's possible this storyline could have been done well, but not in this current time, and definitely not in this current way.
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Re: Idunn

Post by HalloweenJack »

Jabroniville wrote: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:02 pm ImageImageImage

IDUNN
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Journey Into Myster #114 (March 1965)
Role: Giver Of Immortality
PL 7 (81)
STRENGTH[/b] 6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Expertise (God) 8 (+11)
Expertise (Botany) 11 (+14)
Expertise (Magic) 6 (+9)
Perception 1 (+4)
Persuasion 4 (+7)

Advantages: 
Equipment (Weapons +2), Great Endurance, Ritualist, Ultimate Botanist

Powers:
Immunity 2 (Aging, Disease) [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Weapons +5 (+8 Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +4 (DC 14), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +6, Fortitude +6, Will +6

Complications:
Responsibility (Asgard)

Total: Abilities: 52 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 2 / Defenses: 8 (81)

Idunn in Mythology: Idunn ("ever young") was very important to the Aesir- they were not naturally immortal and ageless, and so needed to eat the golden apples from her tree in order to maintain their youth. She has a husband named Bragi in some stories, but the main one is one in which Loki tricks her into being kidnapped, and the aging, greying Gods force him to return her, at which point they kill the kidnapper.


-Idunn was not a major character in the Thor comics until very recently. She is the daughter of Freya (Goddess of Fertility) and Iwaldi (a dwarf treasure-maker), and her Golden Apples, which only grow in Asgard, are what makes the Asgardians immortal. This means that the Asgardians are the only Gods in the Marvel Universe who are not NATURALLY ageless beings. One of her only appearances was when a Golden Apple was part of a Treasure Hunt by Amadeus Cho & Thor. In recent years, however, she, Freyja & Gaea now rule Asgard as the "All Mothers". Most of the stuff I find online features them treating "Kid Loki" like Calvin's mother treats him in Calvin & Hobbes- like exasperated, constantly-disapproving moms.

-Idunn is vaguely-powerful, and doesn't do any sort of fighting, so this build can't really be too in-depth. She's just a Baseline Asgardian with more Skills & Smarts. And probably some Magic.

there was a story or two in some canon that in the previous Ragnarok cycles that Amora was Idunn as well.

But that's previous Ragnarok cycles....and ya know....sometimes that sort of thing can work like with Those That Sit Above In Shadow and all....but overall I don't like the multiple Ragnaroks
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Re: The Thermal Man

Post by scc »

Jabroniville wrote: Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:47 pm Image

THE THERMAL MAN
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Thor #168 (Sept. 1969)
Role: Ultimate Kill-O-Bot, Implacable Foe
Group Affiliations: China
PL 14 (156)
STRENGTH
16 STAMINA -- AGILITY -1
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -- AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE --

Skills:
None

Advantages: 
Power Attack, Ranged Attack 4

Powers:
"Supreme Kill-O-Bot"
Growth 7 (Str & Toughness +7, +7 Mass, +3 Intimidation, -3 Dodge/Parry, -7 Stealth) -- (25 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [15]
Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
"Unstoppable" Protection 17 (Extras: Impervious 21) [38]
Thermal Blasts 22 (Extras: Penetrating 10) [54]
"Sensor Arrays" Senses 3 (Analytical Vision 2, Infravision) [3]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+16 Damage, DC 21)
Thermal Blasts +8 (+20 Ranged Damage, DC 30)
Initiative -1

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +24 (+11 Impervious), Fortitude --, Will --

Complications: 
Motivation (Destroying America)- All attempts at reprogramming the Thermal Man have failed- only mystical possession has controlled him.
Weakness (Atomic Pile)- The Thermal Man is powered by an "atomic pile"- extreme cold may render it inert.

Total: Abilities: 2 / Skills: 00--0 / Advantages: 5 / Powers: 140 / Defenses: 9 (156)

-The Thermal Man was created by a well-meaning Professor Chen in order to be an industrial super-worker in his native China, but the Chinese military seized the prototype, immediately turning it into a weapon programmed to destroy America. Wanting to test America's capability at defeating such a creation, they sent it right to America. Odin dispatched Baldur and the Warriors Three against the Thermal Man, but it bested all of them. Naturally, Thor was next to arrive, finding a nearly-evacuated New York- however, even HE was defeated, even alongside his allies! The Chinese, afraid of an outright war with America over the Thermal Man's deployment, sent an implosion bomb to the Americans as a "peace offering" (and also just in case it turned on them), but even THAT merely stunned the thing! Thor was only able to become victorious when he sent a typhoon to snatch up the weapon, freezing it in the Arctic as its "atomic pile" cooled down.

-Years later, a Chinese neutron bomb test in the Arctic revived the Thermal Man. Professor Chen sacrificed himself to buy Thor some time, and Thor killed two birds with one stone by doing a "Remove From Battle" trick once more and send the creature to Jotunheim, where it started killing Frost Giants instead. However, Loki eventually took control of it, sending it against Asgard alongside an army of Frost Giants. Only HERE was Thor able to stop the thing, absorbing and redirecting its Thermal Blasts back into it, opening a tiny crack that he hammered open and tore out the atomic pile that powered it. Thor then threw the device in through the portal back to Jotunheim, incinerating thousands of Frost Giants.

-The Thermal Man was AGAIN revived once the Frost Giants cast it out of Asgard (in a '90s Thunderstrike story), and a greedy corporation found it and revived it. It went crazy, resulting in Code: Blue and Thor getting called out. Thunderstrike eventually stopped it using a "monomolecular adamantium wire" from Stark Industries, using the tiny wire to shred the creature to pieces. It was later revealed the CEO deliberately had the thing go crazy, so that he could pocket the insurance money.

-The thing that bothers me is... how was SOME RANDOM SCIENTIST able to create a thing that is almost literlaly invincible, and could take our the combined efforts of Thor, Balder and the Warriors Three? Like, even Doctor Doom or Reed Richards couldn't do this. The Thermal Man gives the impression that he'd have to be the creation of an ancient Galactic Empire, Galactus himself, or a high-end otherdimensional force. Him being some Earthborne robot makes it insane. But honestly... this whole thing is just a giant Plot Device- giving the hero an impossible threat to fight (one that counters Thor's biggest attribute- his raw power) and force him to use his wits to get the thing away from the field of battle.

-This thing is an absolute MONSTER in combat, with the early tellings basically making it unstoppable. It was only once Thor adopted Power Creep in the 1980s that he was able to even SCRATCH the damn thing, and even that tended to require Extra Effort, tons of tricks, and some luck. The final version lacked the "Atomic Pile" Complication, but seemed to be a bit lower-toughness overall, though Eric Masterson required a Special One-Off Weapon to stop it.
I never heard of this character. And I am a big fan of killer robots. Funny that a random scientist or engineer built a more deadly robot than Doom ever did.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Dargo! Sif! Beta Ray Bill! Thermal Man! Odin!)

Post by Horsenhero »

Overall, having read Thor during the 70's and onward (the benefits of starting collecting in '72), Odin has almost always been a douchebag of some degree or another. In some runs he was less important and was just trotted out to fight foes "even Thor couldn't defeat" or to job to a foe so Thor's victory could look all that much better. But he was almost always a jackass once they started bringing him into stories to the degree he required characterization. Still, he's been subjected to the same treatment that almost every "mentor" figure has been given over the years, whether it's The Chief, Professor X, R.J. Brande or whomever. For some reason mentor figures in comics are almost always subjected to a period of time where they're actions are suspect if not outright villainous. Eventually Jason Aaron will leave the title and a writer who's fond of Odin will give him a redemption arc, then the next writer may make him a douche again. It's just the way it goes.

My big problem with Jason Aaron is he treats "Thor" as if it was a title not a proper name. Thor isn't "Robin" or "Batman" or "Superman" or "Iron Man" or "Captain America". Thor is a characters name, much the same way Hercules is. Do I have problem with Jane Foster running around with Thor's powers? No. I have no problem with Beta Ray Bill, so it would be stupid for me to have a problem with Jane. If you're fine with Bill, but have issues with Jane conceptually, you might want to check your misogyny meter, because it's probably running a little hot. Just sayin'.

Now I haven't read the stories featuring Jane-Thor, so I don't know if they're good or entertaining, what I do know is Thor sales still remain higher than they were for about a year pre-Jane, so from a publisher standpoint, that's a win. AS a struggling Indy comic artist and producer, I've got to side with the publisher there. Anything you do that can bring you steady sales (that isn't pandering to racists or other bigots) is a good thing. Sales only look easy to come by.
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Mangog

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

MANGOG
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Thor #154 (July 1968)
Role: Mega-Powerhouse
Group Affiliations: The Enforcers, The Satan Squad
PL 15 (241)
STRENGTH
22 STAMINA 20 AGILITY -1
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Intimidation 14 (+14, +16 Size)
Perception 4 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Blasts) 4 (+10)

Advantages: 
Fast Grab, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 2, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Startle, Takedown

Powers:
"Strength of a Billion Billion Beings"
Power-Lifting 1 (200,000 tons) [1]
Immortality 1 [2]
Immunity 11 (Life Support, Aging) [11]
Leaping 8 (2,000 feet) [8]
Protection 2 (Extras: Impervious 23) [25]
Regeneration 8 (Feats: Regrow Limbs) [9]

Energy Blast 16 [32]
"Shapeshifter" Morph 2 (Humanoids) [10]

"Large Size" Growth 4 (Str & Sta +4, +4 Mass, +2 Intimidation, -2 Dodge/Parry, -4 Stealth) -- (12 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [9]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+22 Damage, DC 37)
Blasts +10 (+16 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Initiative -1

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +22 (+12 Impervious), Fortitude +20, Will +8

Complications:
Power Loss (All Powers)- Mangog is empowered by the hate of his race for Odin, who slew them all millennia ago. He can be cut off from his source of power by a few means, like when Odin resurrected his people.
Enemy (Odin)- Mangog represents the fury of a race that Odin has slain.

Total: Abilities: 82 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 107 / Defenses: 29 (241)

-Mangog is an old-school Thor villain mostly used for one-off brawls, but I mostly remember him for one of my first introductions to the online comic book fandom- on the Wizard World message boards, people were FREAKING THE F*** OUT over the fact that Mangog & Thanos (retconned to a Clone, probably because Jim Starlin is defensive of his creation) teamed up, and Mangog beat Thor. It also introduced me to the Cliched Thor Storyline- Thor fights guy. Guy beats Thor. Thor beats guy by trying harder and limit-breaking. Thor fans REALLY like their hero to have "Good Showings".

-Mangog is based off of the hate of a "billion billion beings" that Odin slew millennia ago, after they'd invaded Asgard. Mangog, the sole survivor, is broken free from a rocky prison by Ulik the Rock Troll- Ulik is seeking an ally, but Mangog instead effortlessly defeats the Thor-class powerhouse and goes on a rampage. He seeks to draw the Odinsword, thus ending the universe (?), but Odin interferes in the Mangog/Thor fight, casting a spell that undoes the death of Mangog's race, thus causing Mangog to fade away into nothing.

-Mangog reappears when Loki brings him back, but he is beaten when cut off from the source of his power. He briefly impersonates Odin in a later story, but Odin's return puts a stop to him once more. Years later, he shows up again as the servant of Thanos, who of course seeks domination of the universe- he defeats Thor in the first go-around, but Thor does his cliched "fights harder next time" thing and eventually slays Mangog using a limit-break "Odinforce" attack. He later reappears (explaining that hatred can be suppressed or rejected, but never destroyed), but is banished into a star. Later, the Shi'ar unleash him once more.

-Mangog is a serious, serious threat. The dude EASILY defeated Ulik the Troll in his debut, and was only defeated by Odin- one of the most powerful single beings in the Marvel Universe. Only later (with a PL increase from the Silver Age) was Thor ever able to defeat the guy. He's pretty much one-note to the extreme, wanting to fight his way into Asgard and end the Universe, and has very few useful abilities beyond punching, but HOLY CRAP WHAT A PUNCH!! With a Power Attack, Mangog can K.O. Thor with a single shot (DC 37 damage versus +15 Toughness, Thor would need a "12" on a D20 to even remain conscious). Thankfully Thor is a good enough fighter to avoid such a blow, but with a PL difference between them, and giving up a ton of power, Thor is VERY hard-pressed to eke out a win.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Horsenhero
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sif! Beta Ray Bill! Thermal Man! Odin! Mangog!)

Post by Horsenhero »

In a lot of ways Thor reminds me of Superman in that they both often pull out wins by "no longer holding back". They are both apparently the kings of not trying hard enough the first time.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Destroyer

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

THE DESTROYER
Created By:
Stan Lee & Jack Kirby
First Appearance: Journey Into Mystery #118 (July 1965)
Role: Implacable Destroyer
Group Affiliations: Asgard
PL 16 (286)
STRENGTH
20 STAMINA -- AGILITY 1
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+8)
Intimidation 12 (+12)
Ranged Combat (Blast) 4 (+10)

Advantages: 
Chokehold, Fast Grab, Fearless, Improved Critical (Blast) 4, Improved Grab, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Startle, Ultimate Toughness Save, Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Unstoppable Android" Immunity 40 (Fortitude, Mental Effects) [40]
"Uru-Built Body" Protection 26 (Extras: Impervious 35) [60]
Flight 7 (250 mph) [14]
Power-Lifting 2 (100,000 tons) [2]

"Energy Bolt" Damage 16 (Feats: Variable- Force or Heat) (Extras: 250ft. Line +4) (81) -- [86]
  • AE: "Energy Wave" Damage 16 (Feats: Variable- Force or Heat) (Extras: Area- 120ft. Cone +2) (48)
  • AE: "Cosmic Bolt" Blast 22 (Feats: Increased Range, Variable- Force or Heat, Penetrating 14) (60)
  • AE: "Disintegration Beam" Blast 14 Linked to Weaken Toughness 16 (Feats: Incurable) (Extras: Affects Objects, Ranged) (77)
  • AE: "Transformation Beam" Transform 10 (Anything to Anything) (40)
  • AE: "Transmutation Beam" Affliction 16 (Fort; Impaired/Disabled/Transformed) (Extras: Ranged) (32)
Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+20 Damage, DC 35)
Energy Waves +16 Area (+16 Damage, DC 31)
Cosmic Bolt +10 (+22 Ranged Damage, DC 37)
Disintegration Beam +10 (+14 Ranged Damage & Affliction, DC 29 & 24)
Transmutation Beam +10 (+16 Ranged Affliction, DC 26)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +5 (DC 15), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +26 (+18 Impervious), Fortitude --, Will +8

Complications:
Weakness/Disabled (Automoton)- The Destroyer Armour has little animating force of it's own, and is generally depended upon others to take it over. It's will is strong enough to be in control when such things happen, though beings of great Will can take a DC 24 Check to enable their own willpower instead. Odin also has the power to simply cause The Destroyer to stop moving.

Total: Abilities: 44 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 18 / Powers: 202 / Defenses: 13 (286)

The Destroyer- Unkillable Menace:
-The Destroyer is a shockingly-powerful, unstoppable creature, and actually a very cool idea from The House of Ideas. Marvel in the mid-60s was just FULL of this kind of inventive, awesome stuff. See, Odin had fears of some "Far-off threat from the stars" (which would be answered a decade later in The Celestials), and so created a super-suit of armor that could hold someone's soul at allow them to fight. The thing was basically invincible and unstoppable, but still had no real will of its own. This of course made it the PERFECT thing for a super-villain to steal (and in Thor comics, that villain is ALWAYS Loki), and thus Thor was now faced with an enemy that he couldn't stop just by beating its head in- even the most POWERFUL of all Marvel's heroes had zero chance against this monstrosity. This is made all the more terrifying when Odin combines the Life Forces of all the Asgardians (save Thor), the Eternal Uni-Mind, and the freaking ODIN-SWORD together, grows to 2000 feet tall, and challenges The Celestials, only to be one-punched into nothingness via their overwhelming power.

The Destroyer's History:
-First off, the Destroyer was empowered by a human hunter controlled by Loki, but the villain buried it to prevent its re-use. Sif controlled it the next time, hoping to replace a de-powered Thor in a battle against The Wrecker- it attacked Thor anyways. Thor later gave it to Galactus in exchange for freedom for his current Herald, Firelord- this leads to a new "The Destroyer-As-Herald" status quo before of course Loki steals it again. At this point, Odin combines the entirety of Asgard (save Thor) into the armor to combat the Celestials... but as I said, they one-punched it. Thor had to beseech all of the other Skyfathers of Earth in order to win back the lives of his countrymen.

-The armor is usually seen just kicking the snot out of Thor because a villain (96% chance of Loki, 4% chance of Karnilla or someone) took it over. However, there's a GREAT bit in Simonson's run where Thor is pulped to nothingness because of a spell by Hela and a death-blow from Jormungand, and a Destroyer empowered by a Frost Giant comes to beat on him. Thor's spirit (inhabiting the pulped remains because of Hela's aforementioned spell) ends up grabbing hold of the damn thing and takes it over- THEN he decides to just waltz right into Hela's domain, break the hell out of the place, kick her ass, and demand his own life back. Hela, watching her entire dimension crumble from an unstoppable, unkillable force (she can't Drain Life on a robot), is forced to cave- and THAT is how a hero resurrects himself.

-The Destroyer is later animated by Lorelei, who ends up trapped in the dimension of the Great Beasts, then by the spirit of The Maestro (the evil, future Hulk), but the Hulk wins when he enters the Destroyer armor himself (as he & Maestro share the same spirit) and defeats the villain from within it. Thor defeats it later when empowered by the "Odinpower". Most recently, it has appeared to fight the JaneThor on behalf of Odin, but she was defended by OdinsonThor and a group of other good guys, and Odin backed down.

The Power of The Destroyer:
-The Destroyer is PL 16 (two beyond Thor, and equal to Poseidon or Pluto within their own realms), hits like a freaking Kaiju in close or at range, and is generally unstoppable. Even Thor has to go full-on with Mjolnir to even dent the thing (Impervious on anything below +18), and even THAT probably isn't going to work, especially since it loves to just go "Withstand Damage" (the 2e possibly-broken Advantage that allows you to go -5 Defense/+5 Toughness; it suits uber-powerful types and guys who just stick their chest out and go "BRING IT!") and hit Toughness 31. Good luck ever stopping it without outsmarting the thing.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Apr 14, 2022 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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