Jab’s Builds! (Whomp 'Em! Plumbers Don't Wear Ties! ToeJam & Earl!)

[Woodclaw]

One thing that always struck me as odd about Hera was that she was the godess who protected Jason and the Argonauts, but among the crew there where multiple heroes fathered by Zeus (including Hercules himself and the twins Castor and Pollux). Also, Jason showed that he was pretty much in the same class of assholishness as Theseus by rejecting Medea and breaking his promise to marry her because he fell for a younger woman. This led him to lose the favor of Hera and, later on to his death. The interesting thing is that Hera plays a very different role in that particular myth, but still kind of picked the short straw.

That Jason thing comes from a play; its the only extant source for that version of the story, and it's hard to tell whether that was "official" myth or not. It also points out some of the inconsistencies in the whole cycle: when Jason divorces her to marry someone else, she kills their kids and his paramour and hies off to somewhere on a chariot drawn by dragons - but ends up in Athens as Aegeus' wife, so she can attempt some more murder on Theseus. But! Theseus was one of the Argonauts, who clearly adventured with them post-Minotaur slaying which could only have happened AFTER he met Medea!

The thing about the Argonauts, of course, is that as time went on everyone wanted their city's heroic founder included in the list of heroes on the trip. So all those sons of Zeus have to be involved, even though as you point out, it being sponsored by vindictive Hera, that makes no sense. Although Herc doesn't stay with the gang very long... his boyfriend goes missing and while Herc is looking for him, the Argos sails off without either of them.

Clearly, Greek mythology needs Roy Thomas to clear some things up. Or maybe some kind of Crisis or Flashpoint situation.

If you want for things to get even weirder Theseus, based on some genealogies of heroes, was also Herc's maternal grandfather (meaning that Zeus was both Herc's father and great-grandfather). Also during the twelfth labor, Herc's met Theseus, who had been imprisoned in the underworld ever since he and his buddy Pirithous had the unfrotunate idea of trying to go and kidnap Persephone (which I rank very high in my "mother of all bad ideas" list). In theory this would account for the presence of both among the Argonauts, but it wouldn't explain Medea.

[Jabroniville]

That's honestly a mark of some truly epic adventuring, when killing a nigh-immortal, multi-headed dragon is one of the lesser parts of the tale.

Yeah, it's arguably the most deadly battle, but almost all of the other Labours involved more plot and planning. This, the Stymphalian Birds, and a few others are just "fights". The Stables and other things involve long stories about kings, alliances, deal-making, etc.

[Jabroniville]

Yeah, reading my book on Greek Myths, the Argonauts tale was expanded upon numerous times, with various writers and cities having their "say", which is why the tale got so muddled, and their numbers rose so high. Among the funnier notes was how "realistic" Jason was as a hero compared to the other uber-badasses of his day- in his own tale, he's overshadowed by Herakles, who has to refuse leadership of The Argo in favor of Jason, who is treated as a much more normal, flawed human being, not prone to the exaggerated physical brilliance of the other Demigods that populate tales like this.

The only "supernatural" thing about Jason was his beauty, which was remarked upon again and again, and won him a large number of his victories (such as getting Medea to fall in love with him in the first place).

The Medea story is still considered one of the best dramas of the age, and one of the few Greek plays that could be performed today and still be popular. From my "Jabverse" thread:

Medea, murderer of her own sons, says this: "We were born women- useless for honest purposes, but it all kinds of evil, skilled practitioners." Funnily enough, the writer Euripides, who told the most famous Medea story, was considered a misogynist IN HIS OWN TIME, yet his words, moving as they were, were later used in suffragete meanings, as they came off much more sympathetic in a later era:

Surely, of all the creatures that have life and will, we women are the most wretched. When, for an extravagant sum, we have bought a husband, we must accept them as possessor of our body. This is to aggravate wrong with worse wrong. Then the great question: will the man we get be bad or good? For women, divorce is not respectable- to repel the man, not possible (...). If a man grows tired of the company at home, he can go out and find a cure for tediousness. We wives are forced to look to one man only.

And, they tell us, we at home live free from danger, they go out to battle. Fools! I would rather stand three times on the front line than bear one child!

The story of the Trojan War is still the "best of" tale of all Greek Myths- gory battle, all kinds of alliances, tons of named characters, the God intermingling and feuding with mortals, etc. The weird thing is, The Iliad, the most famous and detailed telling of it, is only the second of a three-part story, and we've lost the other two. We only know what happens in the first (the Golden Apple, the Judgment of Paris, etc.) and the third (Paris slays Achilles, Troy is sacked, Helen goes back with her first husband) because other writers talked about it as common knowledge- the full stories haven't survived.

[Ken]

So, Jason was the Batman or Captain America of the Argonauts? The "badass normal" among demigods.

[Davies]

So, Jason was the Batman or Captain America of the Argonauts? The "badass normal" among demigods.

More like the Snapper Carr or Rick Jones.

[sirjolt]

Yeah, I much prefer the Dresden Files take on Hades. I mean, Hades was the God of the Dead, but he was a fair and impartial judge, and he reigned over the Greek equivalents of Heaven AND Hell. Making him into a devil expy just never made any sense.

Especially since Tartarus is the equivalent of Hell; not the Underworld where the dead went.

[Jabroniville]

DEMETER
Created By: Stan Lee & John Buscema
First Appearance: The Avengers #50 (March 1968)
Role: The Greco-Roman Goddess of Agriculture, Law & Order and The Afterlife
Group Affiliations: The Olympian Pantheon
PL 12 (293)
STRENGTH 10 STAMINA 10 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 3
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 (+7)
Athletics 2 (+12)
Deception 5 (+9)
Expertise (Goddess of The Harvest & Law) 15 (+19)
Expertise (History) 6 (+10)
Expertise (Magic) 10 (+14)
Insight 4 (+8)
Intimidation 2 (+6)
Perception 4 (+8)
Persuasion 4 (+8)
Ranged Attack (Plants) 4 (+10)
Stealth 2 (+5)

Advantages: 
Artificer, Beginner's Luck, Benefit (Status- God), Diehard, Great Endurance, Improved Critical 2 (Plants), Jack-of-All-Trades, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 3, Ultimate Harvest Goddess

Powers:
"Immortal God"
Regeneration 4 (Feats: Regrowth) [5]
Immunity 10 (Aging, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Disease, Fatigue Effects) [10]
Immunity 2 (Drowning & Suffocation, Poison, Pressure) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [2]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]
Speed 2 (8 mph) [2]

"Goddess of The Harvest"
Movement 1 (Environmental Adaptation- Plant Matter) [2]
"Long Winter" Weaken Stamina 2 (Extras: Area- 500 mile Burst +18, Continuous +3) (Flaws: Limited to Plants) [40]
Comprehend Plants 2 [4]
"Leaf Shield" Force Field 2 (Extras: Affects Others 10) [12]

"Vine Snare" Snare 12 (Feats: Reversible) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst, Selective) (Flaws: Touch Range) (49) -- [63]

• AE: "Vine Snare" Snare 14 (Feats: Reversible) (42)
• AE: "Tree Attack" Blast 12 (Feats: Accurate) (25)
• AE: "Tree Storm" Damage 12 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone) (24)
• AE: "Tree Strike" Damage 12 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Line) (24)
• AE: "Leaf Storm" Dazzle Visuals 12 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (36)
• AE: "Tree Growth" Growth 10 (Extras: Affects Others Only +0) (Flaws: Limited to Trees) (10)
• AE: "Summon Insect Swarm With Plant Pheromones" Summon 2 (4)
• AE: "Nauseating Pollen" Affliction 12 (Fort; Impaired/Disabled/Incapacitated) (Extras: 30ft. Cloud +2) (36)
• AE: "Poisonous Leaves" Weaken Stamina 8 (Extras: Progressive +2) (24)
• AE: "Poison Ivy" Affliction 12 (Fort; Dazed & Impaired/Stunned & Disabled/Paralyzed) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst, Selective, Ranged) (48)
• AE: "Vine Barrage" Environment 4 (250 feet) (Impede Movement 2) (8)
• AE: "Multiple Vine Stabs" Blast 12 (Extras: Multiattack) (36)
• AE: "Vines Tear the Earth" Affliction 12 (Dodge; Hindered & Vulnerable/Prone & Defenseless) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst, Extra Condition) (Flaws: Instant Recovery, Limited Degree) (12)
• AE: "Plant Control" Move Object 12 (Extras: Perception) (Flaws: Limited to Plants) (24)

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Vine Snare +10 (+12 Ranged Affliction, DC 22)
Area Snare, Leaf Storm, Pollen & Poison Ivy +12 (+12 Affliction, DC 22)
Tree Attack +12 (+12 Ranged Damage, DC 27)
Tree Area Attacks +12 Area (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +10 (+12 Leaf Shield), Fortitude +12, Will +9

Complications:
Responsibility (Olympian Pantheon)- Demeter is loyal to Zeus.
Relationship (Daughter, Persephone)- Demeter's motherly love for Persephone is so great that she nearly doomed all of Greece to starvation in mourning for the girl when she disappeared.

Total: Abilities: 90 / Skills: 62--31 / Advantages: 13 / Powers: 142 / Defenses: 17 (293)

Demeter in Mythology: Despite being a sister of Zeus and an all-important Goddess to Agrarian Humanity (being the Goddess responsible for everyone not starving to death), Demeter is really only known to most people for the myth of Hades & Persephone- but it's a biggie. Demeter represents nearly all mothers who've lost daughters (to marriage, usually), as well as all the plants of the world, save the grape (Dionysus the drunk), the olive (Athena gave it to Athens to ensure they'd name their city after her) and the pomegranate (I'm assuming Hades).

-Marvel's Demeter is basically a non-entity, having a few tiny background appearances while she stands around as others act out- her & Hestia sat idly by while Athena & Apollo fought over leadership of the Pantheon following the deaths of Zeus & Hera, and I don't even know if she's ever used her powers. In any case, I felt like statting a God-level PL 12 Plant Controller, using a swack of powers I'd never use otherwise . Therefore, here's Demeter as an all-powerful Plant Controller who has a ton of Powers to choose from- Tree Growth, Tree Attacks, Snares, Nausea, Poison Ivy (they itch to distraction), Dazzles, etc. She also has the power to wipe out all plant life for hundreds of miles, which is REALLY scary when you think about it, but not a really dangerous power in battle for the most part (even if you're a Plant Man, it's got 2 ranks).

[Ken]

So, Jason was the Batman or Captain America of the Argonauts? The "badass normal" among demigods.

More like the Snapper Carr or Rick Jones.

Leading the team?

[Ken]

Demeter in Mythology: Despite being a sister of Zeus and an all-important Goddess to Agrarian Humanity (being the Goddess responsible for everyone not starving to death), Demeter is really only known to most people for the myth of Hades & Persephone- but it's a biggie.

-Marvel's Demeter is basically a non-entity, having a few tiny background appearances while she stands around as others act out

Well, to correct this, they could giver her own ... Ceres.

[Goldar]

Demeter in Mythology: Despite being a sister of Zeus and an all-important Goddess to Agrarian Humanity (being the Goddess responsible for everyone not starving to death), Demeter is really only known to most people for the myth of Hades & Persephone- but it's a biggie.

-Marvel's Demeter is basically a non-entity, having a few tiny background appearances while she stands around as others act out

Well, to correct this, they could giver her own ... Ceres.

Ahaha. Good one.

[Jabroniville]

AMADEUS CHO
Created By: Greg Pak & Takeshi Miyazawa
First Appearance: Amazing Fantasy (vol. 2) #15 (Jan. 2006)
Role: The Self-Insert Mary Sue, Teen Genius, Everyman Hero, Smart-Ass Hero, Glass Cannon
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Olympus Group, The God Squad
Avengers Grade: C-Level
PL 9 (170)
STRENGTH 1 STAMINA 1 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 2/8 DEXTERITY 4/6
INTELLIGENCE 8 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+4, +8 Math)
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Science) 6 (+14)
Expertise (Current Events) 4 (+12)
Expertise (History) 3 (+11)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 4 (+12)
Expertise (Science) 8 (+16)
Expertise (Theology & Philosophy) 4 (+12)
Insight 5 (+8, +12 Math)
Investigation 5 (+8)
Perception 11 (+14)
Persuasion 4 (+6)
Sleight of Hand 2 (+6, +8 Math)
Stealth 4 (+6)
Technology 10 (+18)
Vehicles 4 (+8, +12 Math)

Advantages: 
Equipment (Vespa Scooter)

Powers:
"Super-Math"
Enhanced Fighting 6 [12]
Enhanced Dexterity 2 [4]
Enhanced Skills 8: Acrobatics 4, Insight 4 [4]
Enhanced Advantages 35: 
Accurate Attack, Assessment, Beginner's Luck, Defensive Roll 3, Elusive Target, Evasion, Improved Aim, Improved Defense, Improved Initiative 2, Improved Smash, Jack-of-All-Trades, Luck, Ranged Attack 6, Redirect, Set-Up, Skill Mastery (Sleight of Hand, Computers, Technology, Science), Teamwork, Throwing Mastery 4, Uncanny Dodge (Sight), Ultimate Perception Skill, Well-Informed [35]

Enhanced Dodge 8 [8]
Enhanced Parry 4 [4]
Super-Senses 6 (Danger & Distance Sense, Analytical Vision, Detect Weakness- Ranged, Acute & Analytical) [6]
Quickness 6 (Flaws: Limited to Mental Tasks) [3]

Offense:
Unarmed +2 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Math Unarmed +8 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Thrown Objects +12 (+4 Ranged Damage, DC 19)
Initiative +10

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +4 (DC 14), Toughness +1, Fortitude +4, Will +6
"With Math" Dodge +14 (DC 24), Parry +14 (DC 24), Toughness +1 (+4 D.Roll), Fortitude +4, Will +6

Complications:
Reputation (Fugitive)
Relationship (Loves Delphyne Gorgon)
Responsibility (Athena's Champion)- Cho must often do Athena's bidding, but he's beginning to realize what this means.
Responsibility (Buddy Comedy Relationship with Hercules)- But he is NOT Herc's Eronomous!!
Responsibility (Searching for Sister)
Power Loss (Math)- Amadeus requires a steady supply of sugar, or he will begin to lose his intelligence.

Total: Abilities: 46 / Skills: 70--35 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 76 / Defenses: 12 (170)

Amadeus Cho- Mary-Sue That's Actually Pretty Good:
-Amadeus Cho is a great new (well, eleven year old) character, despite having some astonishingly Mary-Sue-ish qualities to him (his creator is ALSO Korean-American; Amadeus pwned Reed Richards in one of his first appearances; he's a super-genius; he made out with a hot monster chick) which have mostly calmed down in recent storylines. He's a conflicted character, being greatly opposed to S.H.I.E.L.D., The Superhuman Registration Act, and even rebels against Athena's mentoring of him, and he's often forced to just follow along in the big lug Hercules' antics, but he's ultimately loyal to Herc. As the "Seventh Smartest Person Alive", he's searching for his sister; having since uncovered the truth behind his parents' death, and thrown away his chance at revenge (because "Revenge is a childish emotion, and it's time to put away childish things")- which caused their killer, the Sixth Smartest Person Alive, to kill himself, despondent that he could no longer pit his mind against Cho's.

-Cho is basically Hercules' Hetero Life Partner during most of The Incredible Hercules, going on many adventures, arguing whenever Herc's libido gets involved, chafing under Athena's stern orders (mmmm... Athena...), and fighting their way out of all kinds of scraps. When they split up after a particularly nasty argument, they soon find themselves willing to sacrifice their own lives for each other (foiling Hephaestus's trap, which was set up to force one ot kill the other to escape- upon BOTH of them attempting the sacrifice, he just goes "Frickin' HEROES"). When Herc gains full Godhood and then gives it up, they split apart for no adequately explained reason, and Herc goes off on his own for a lower-powered, short-lived book, and Cho basically vanished off the face of the Earth. An older-looking Cho appeared in Frank Cho's Savage Wolverine short-story (wonder why Cho used Cho, huh?), and again in a more modern story, but he seems to have primarily vanished from comics without his creator actively attempting to push him.

-Ultimately, I think Amadeus worked where many other Mary Sue's didn't because they actually knew to shrink it back a bit- it was still HERCULES doing most of the bad-ass stuff, and Cho was relatively light on saving the day, and rarely beat up established characters. It helps that he wasn't a physical powerhouse, nor a ladies' man (the only girl who liked him- Delphyne Gorgon- couldn't be with him as part of her royal duties to the Amazons).

Cho's Stats:
-Cho is a truly bizarre and unique character to stat up. It's quite clear early on that he sees the world differently from other people- he can correctly calculate the position, nature and pathways of things, giving him a kind of superhuman accuracy and dodging ability unknown to most other 'genius' characters, who are just able to build things. Cho ALSO has plenty of those skills, however, being vastly intelligent- he's hacked REED RICHARDS of all people, and knocked down a Helicarrier once. I threw almost all of his abilities under his "Super-Math" power, which requires a supply of food to constantly work, but is otherwise pretty much always there.

-Among his feats & capabilities that I've read, and are shown here, are: deflecting a powerful laser weapon armed at his back with a Vespa scooter's mirror, figuring out Ares was going to come crashing through a room he was being interrogated in- and the exact pathway he'd take, redirecting Thena's attack into the Dreaming Celestial, who then KO'd her, and more. This means he's got a swack of Super-Senses (especially Analytical Vision & Danger Sense), high Attack & Defense scores, some Math-given boosts to some skills (like Acrobatics, since he can 'see' where he needs to go), Throwing Mastery (just tossing a fork can have some weird effects for him), and general Mental Quickness.

-Cho doesn't even invent stuff, really- his fighting consists of running away (which is why he's PL 9 only Defensively, he's PL 8 on offense at-best, and that's just with thrown stuff- he's quite the weakling physically). He picks up pretty much every bit of the slack Hercules gives him as a team (ie. the intellectual and Wisdom-based Skills compared to Mister Follow His Wiener), which is why they make up such a great duo. Cho is brutally expensive by contrast to his lower-PL, a virtue of being a Skillmonkey and highly-efficient with his other abilities.



THE HULK II (Amadeus Cho)
Created By: Greg Pak & Takeshi Miyazawa
First Appearance: Amazing Fantasy (vol. 2) #15 (Jan. 2006)
Role: The Self-Insert Mary Sue, Teen Genius, Everyman Hero, Smart-Ass Hero, Glass Cannon
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The Olympus Group, The God Squad
Avengers Grade: C-Level
PL 13 (301)
STRENGTH 1/14/18 STAMINA 1/15 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 2/8 DEXTERITY 4/6
INTELLIGENCE 8 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+4, +8 Math)
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Science) 6 (+14)
Expertise (Current Events) 4 (+12)
Expertise (History) 3 (+11)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 4 (+12)
Expertise (Science) 8 (+16)
Expertise (Theology & Philosophy) 4 (+12)
Insight 5 (+8, +12 Math)
Investigation 5 (+8)
Perception 11 (+14)
Persuasion 4 (+6)
Sleight of Hand 2 (+6, +8 Math)
Stealth 4 (+6)
Technology 10 (+18)
Vehicles 4 (+8, +12 Math)

Advantages: 
Equipment (Vespa Scooter)

Powers:
"Super-Math"
Enhanced Fighting 6 [12]
Enhanced Dexterity 2 [4]
Enhanced Skills 8: Acrobatics 4, Insight 4 [4]
Enhanced Advantages 35: 
Accurate Attack, Assessment, Beginner's Luck, Defensive Roll 3, Elusive Target, Evasion, Improved Aim, Improved Defense, Improved Initiative 2, Improved Smash, Jack-of-All-Trades, Luck, Ranged Attack 6, Redirect, Set-Up, Skill Mastery (Sleight of Hand, Computers, Technology, Science), Teamwork, Throwing Mastery 4, Uncanny Dodge (Sight), Ultimate Perception Skill, Well-Informed [35]

Enhanced Dodge 8 [8]
Enhanced Parry 4 [4]
Super-Senses 6 (Danger & Distance Sense, Analytical Vision, Detect Weakness- Ranged, Acute & Analytical) [6]
Quickness 6 (Flaws: Limited to Mental Tasks) [3]

"The Hulk's Strength"
Enhanced Strength 11 [22]
Enhanced Stamina 12 [24]
Reduced Parry -3 [-3]
Reduced Dodge -3 [-3]
Reduced Fortitude -3 [-3]
"Natural Size" Growth 2 (Str & Sta +2, +2 Mass, +1 Intimidation, -1 Dodge/Parry, -2 Stealth) -- (10 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [5]

"The Strongest One There Is"
Power Lifting 1 (50,000 tons) [1]
Leaping 11 (4 miles) [11]
Impervious Toughness 15 [15]
Immunity 11 (Heat, Cold, Radiation, Pressure, Poison, Disease, Radiation Damage) [11]
Immunity 10 (Mental Effects) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [5]
Regeneration 8 (Feats: Regrowth) [9]

"Super-Strength Feats"
"Thunderclap" Dazzle Hearing 12 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Touch Range, Distracting) (24) -- [29]

• AE: "Groundstrike" Affliction 12 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 120ft. Burst +3) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Ground) Linked to Damage 12 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (22)
• AE: "Groundstrike Line" Affliction 12 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 120ft. Line +3) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Ground) Linked to Damage 10 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (22)
• AE: "Shockwave" Damage 12 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Both Grounded) (24)
• AE: "Super-Breath" Move Object 12 (Extras: Area- 120ft. Cone +2) (Flaws: Limited to One Direction) (24)
• AE: Penetrating Strength Damage 13 (13)

"The Hulk's Rage" (All Have Flaws: Uncontrolled- Must be Angry)
Enhanced Strength 4 [4]
Impervious Toughness 4 [2]
Regeneration 2 [1]
Power-Lifting 2 (100,000 tons) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +2 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Math Unarmed +8 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Thrown Objects +12 (+4 Ranged Damage, DC 19)
Hulk Strength +8 (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Enraged Strength +8 (+18 Damage, DC 33)
Area Effects +12 (+12 Damage/Affliction, DC 27/22)
Initiative +10

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +4 (DC 14), Toughness +1, Fortitude +4, Will +6
"With Math" Dodge +14 (DC 24), Parry +14 (DC 24), Toughness +1 (+4 D.Roll), Fortitude +4, Will +6
"Hulked Up" Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +15 (+8-10 Impervious), Fortitude +15, Will +6

Complications:
Reputation (Fugitive)
Relationship (Viv)- Amadeus makes kisses with The Vision's Daughter.
Responsibility (Buddy Comedy Relationship with Hercules)- But he is NOT Herc's Eronomous!!
Relationship (Maddy Cho)- Amadeus and Maddy bicker frequently- she thinks he can't handle the Hulk's power.
Power Loss (Math)- Amadeus requires a steady supply of sugar, or he will begin to lose his intelligence.
Responsibility (Hulk Rage)- Amadeus thinks he has it under control, but the Hulk's rage can be all-consuming.

Total: Abilities: 46 / Skills: 70--35 / Advantages: 1 / Powers: 207 / Defenses: 12 (301)

Post-Incredible Cho:
-Amadeus spent a number of years largely on the shelf, with the only other creator wanting to use him being Frank Cho (now why are Frank CHO and Grek PAK the only creators interested in using this character of Korean descent?). A couple of years after his Savage Wolverine appearance, Cho makes a sudden appearance in The Totally Awesome Hulk, having both found his sister (who has the same powers he does), and managed to gain the Gamma-powered strength of the Hulk. I own the first trade, and while it's no Herc, it's decent enough. It features some classic Frank Cho art (including a hyper-muscular tough chick), so decent sibling arguing, and a look at a new Hulk character- one who struggles with recklessness and controlling his vast power (and the anger that can come with being a Hulk).

-Of course... this gives us our fiftieth freakin' Hulk, as Marvel just keeps spinning him off, to the point where you could make a huge super-team out of JUST guys with "Hulk" in their name. That he came out at the same time as the rest of Marvel's "Diversity Push" didn't help. But he stuck with the role, mourning Bruce Banner's death (and having a moment with Hawkeye- Banner's killer- where they both weep over what happened to Banner). 

-ChoHulk ends up joining The Champions when the younger Avengers split off from the team after only a year in that book. Wanting to "put the world back together", the young heroes (KamalaMs. Marvel, SamNova, MilesSpidey and YoungCyclops, plus The Vision's daughter "Viv") engage in a lot of teen antics, and Amadeus sort of hooks up with Viv.

ChoHulk Stats:
-... yikes. He's PL 13 (a bit below the Savage Hulk), but *299 points*?? Yeah, that'll happen when you're the Seventh-Smartest Person on the Planet AND have the powers of a Hulk. I had to do a bit of finagling to give him both a "Hulk Form" and a "Cho Form", since Cho's defenses would break the Hulk- you have to increase his Fighting & Dodge because of his Super-Math, but then reduce them from the Hulk's size and comparative lack of dodging prowess (he fights like a Powerhouse now).

[Yojimbo]

If you want for things to get even weirder Theseus, based on some genealogies of heroes, was also Herc's maternal grandfather (meaning that Zeus was both Herc's father and great-grandfather).

Perseus, I think you mean?

Also during the twelfth labor, Herc's met Theseus, who had been imprisoned in the underworld ever since he and his buddy Pirithous had the unfrotunate idea of trying to go and kidnap Persephone (which I rank very high in my "mother of all bad ideas" list). In theory this would account for the presence of both among the Argonauts, but it wouldn't explain Medea.

Theseus and Herakles were linked quite a bit. Part of the Theseus story has Herc visiting Theseus' grandfather and hanging his lion-cloak on a chair, and all the other kids in the house running away terrified, while Theseus ran away to get a club and came back and attacked the cloak. Athens really tried very hard to make their local hero as popular as Herakles in an effort to get him deified like Herc. Supposedly Theseus even appeared on the field at the Battle of Marathon to help fight the Persians. That's like having George Washington show up at the Battle of the Bulge to kick some Germans in the teeth.

To get back to comics... Theseus finally showed up in Marvel in the last Hercules mini-series, as part of a team of assembled mythological heroes helping Herc and Gilgamesh out. I think that's what he was there for. I've only flipped through the trade at the local bookstore.

[Woodclaw]

If you want for things to get even weirder Theseus, based on some genealogies of heroes, was also Herc's maternal grandfather (meaning that Zeus was both Herc's father and great-grandfather).

Perseus, I think you mean?

Yes, sorry I got my 'euses' mixed up

[Jabroniville]

"Oddyses... Perseus... Theseus... A lotta Euses..."

[Jabroniville]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFRRICK!

DELPHYNE GORGON
Created By: Greg Pak, Fred Van Lente & Clayton Henry
First Appearance: The Incredible Hercules #121 (Sept. 2008)
Role: Hot Monster Girl, The Villainess-Girlfriend
Group Affiliations: The Amazons, The Olympian Pantheon
PL 10 (148)
STRENGTH 4 STAMINA 5 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 5 (+10)
Athletics 4 (+9)
Deception 3 (+5)
Persuasion 3 (+5)
Intimidation 5 (+7)
Expertise (Arcane Lore) 4 (+5)
Expertise (Amazon Warrior) 5 (+6)
Perception 5 (+7)
Vehicles 4 (+9)
Insight 3 (+5)
Stealth 3 (+8)

Advantages: 
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Defensive Roll, Defensive Strike, Diehard, Great Endurance, Equipment 5, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Sword), Power Attack, Quick Draw, Ranged Attack 5, Seize Initiative, Teamwork

Powers:
"Gorgon Physiology"
Senses 1 (Low-Light Vision) [1]
"Blinding Bite" Dazzle Visuals 8 (Extras: Progressive +2) (Flaws: Touch Range, Grab-Based) (Drawbacks: Inaccurate) (15) -- [16]

• AE: "Snake-Hair" "Poison" Weaken Stamina 4 (Extras: Progressive +2) (12)

Extra Limbs 2 [2]

Equipment:
"Big-Ass Rifle- Automatic Setting" Blast 7 (Extras: Multiattack) (Inaccurate -1) (20) -- (22)

• AE: "Single Shot" Blast 6 (12)
• AE: "Sword" Strength-Damage +3 (Feats: Improved Critical) (4)

Offense:
Unarmed +11 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Sword +11 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Gorgon Poison +11 (+4 Weaken, DC 14)
Blinding Poison +9 (+10 Affliction, DC 20)
Rifle Shot +10 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Automatic Rifle +8 (+7 Ranged Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +5 (+6 D.Roll), Fortitude +7, Will +7

Complications:
Relationship (Amadeus Cho)- Delphyne has a soft spot for "children and stupid animals", and was quickly attracted to the young Mathematician. However, they cannot be together thanks to...
Responsibility (Amazons)- Delphyne must follow the code of the Amazons- she is loyal to the Olympian Pantheon, and cannot lay with a man without killing him afterwards.
Enemy (Athena Parthenos)- Athena cursed the Gorgon bloodline to be forever tainted (ie. snake-like) after Medusa banged Poseidon on the Virgin Goddess' very altar. Delphyne hates her for this, on behalf of her and all her sisters.
Prejudice (Snake-like)- With green, reptilian features and snakes for hair, Delphyne cannot pass for an ordinary human.

Total: Abilities: 70 / Skills: 44--22 / Advantages: 22 / Powers: 19 / Defenses: 15 (148)

-Delphyne Gorgon's one of those great new characters that just takes a title by storm- she debuted as a mere "henchman with good leanings" of Artume the Evil Bitch Amazon, helping out Amadeus (after crushing on his Mary Sue-ness pretty quickly), standing out from the other Amazons because... well, she's a stone-cold green hottie with a tiny nose, Catholic schoolgirl skirt, and snakes for hair. Odd how that nearly always translates into Uber-Babe. She's a descendant of the original Gorgons, who were punished by Athena thousands of years ago- they interbred with humans and produced hybrids like Delphyne, who can't turn people to stone, but can use poison.

-So Delphyne develops a crush on Amadeus, and moves to save his life once Artume attempts to kill her for flirting with our hero. In an alternate universe created by Artume's manipulation of reality, Delphyne kills her, then becomes the Amazon Queen. Which of course makes her unable to mate with Cho, or else she'll have to kill him by their custom (D'oh!). She's still in the series, hating on Athena (the whole "curse" thing), crushing on Cho (and vice-versa), and getting up to all kinds of hijinks. One of the better "new" comic book creations to come out.

-Unfortunately, despite the character's popularity, she wasn't really used overly much after that- Cho continued to pine for her for a while, and she dealt with Hera's "Anti-Athena Squad", turning human when she froze Athena into a stone statue (thanks to a magic helmet), and permitting Cho to "love me". However, she balked at Hera's plan to kill Cho, too, and when Zeus was killed, Athena was revived and Delphyne returned to her monstrous (-ly hot) state. After some other shenanigans (like freeing herself from the Olympus Group building, where Athena, new Ruler of Olympus, had imprisoned her), she and Cho officially became a couple. At which point the book ended, and Cho soon went off on his own, sans-Delphyne, who only appears as a guest star in The Fearless Defenders as a backgrounder and pretty much never appears again. Cho later macks on Viv, The Vision's daughter, so I guess they're not together anymore.

-So unfortunately, this neat-looking character, rich with storytelling potential (she's the Queen of the Amazons, has a relationship with a major hero, and looks way awesome), has kind of just become a short-lived love interest on a book that's no longer published, and even her co-creator (Greg Pak) isn't using her on the new Hulk book, featuring Cho as the hero. Kind of disappointing, all things considered.

-Delphyne's fairly unique, being a good Martial Artist-type with some good armaments (and a lot of Minions, ideally), in addition to having some Medusa-like powers. She can't Petrify people, but her snakes are highly poisonous (with their poison blinding Herc for a good while- a Touch Dazzle effect that lasts for several turns), which is what makes her a PL 9 in every category but the very limited (Grapples exclusively) Blinding Poison. She's no major match for Herc or Athena in hand-to-hand by any means (she can't even HURT Hercules), unless she has some sort of Plot Device on her (which happens alot in Greek-themed stories), but she's a pretty good fighter with some good options in combat.