Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lady Hellbender! American Gods! Hindu Gods!)

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Dinosaurs or Contest of Champions.

Don't even know what RWBY is.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lady Hellbender! American Gods! Hindu Gods!)

Post by catsi563 »

Found this gem some time back and its just awesome for the subject at hand.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lady Hellbender! American Gods! Hindu Gods!)

Post by L-Space »

I thought Shiva was female for most of my life because of the summon in Final Fantasy (specifically VIII) and it wasn't until later that I found out Shiva was a dude.

Also, very nice art find for the various Hindu deities. Very cool looking.
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Re: The Hindu Gods

Post by kenmadragon »

Jabroniville wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:21 am THE DAEVAS (India):
Skyfather:
Brahma (Creation)
Others: Ganesha (Intellect & Wisdom), Kali (Destruction), Indra (War & Weather), Maya (Illusions), Ratri (Night), Shiva (Destruction & Transformation), Vishu (Heaven & Preservation), Yama (Death)
-Still worshipped by nearly a billion Indians, these guys raise some odd questions in the Marvel Universe as one of the few currently-worshipped Pantheons out there. Use of highly-respected Indian characters as pop-culture fodder is HIGHLY controversial, and the sheer size of the Indian diaspora means you'll definitely get some blowback if you try it. Monster In My Pocket was banned in England for a time after the very large English Hindu population freaked out when beings like Shiva & Ganesha appeared alongside Witch and The Mummy in the collectible plastic toyline. The TV series Clone High got such a berating over the Ghandi character (Ghandi is basically worshipped in a cult of personality) that it helped the show get cancelled, too. So Marvel typically only tries it rarely- their appearances are short. They appear in some background scenes, judging stuff and observing Thor or whatever. Kali is once seen empowering an assassin, and Yama joined other Death Gods in being attacked by The Demogorge after forging an alliance.
Note that Ganesha's domain as "Gateways/Beginnings" is superior to his role as a God of Intellect and Wisdom (who Saraswati is more in tune with.

Also a fun thing: Maya isn't just Goddess of Illusions, she's also the Goddess of Magic and Sorcery, as well as a fundamental building-block of reality. It makes her a rather powerful figure, even though she doesn't feature much anywhere. Maya is all the illusions and deceptions that man needs to understand and overcome to reach supernal truths and divinity. The sorcery of the asura in Hindu myths is mostly them messing with Maya/Illusions, because what seems real is real, until you realize that it's simply an illusion. And when one is reminded of the concept that all of reality is saturated with these illusions...

But yeah... the sad thing is that given how many HIndus there are in the world, and the paucity of theological lessons in India about Hinduism (where these lessons and wisdom are typically passed down by word of mouth from teacher to student or father to son, mostly among Brahmins, rather than spread to the masses as children), a lot of Hindus lose the perspective of One-ness that Hinduism actually talks about.

Also, there are a bunch of Hindu fundamentalists out there that are really, really militant about some stuff, and tend to be somewhat intolerant. Again, a result of a lack of actual understanding or flawed interpretations of old texts. Despite Hinduism's age and history, its members are far from perfect, and a lot of them/us can get touchy. No religion on Earth is lacking in folks like that, Christianity and Islam have fundamentalists in similar veins that make a lot of problems for the rest of the faith because of that labeling, and I don't think I need to name any of those poignant examples...

And yeah, Gandhi's got a Cult of Personality. It's not unique to Indian Hindus either - the guy was/is respected by everyone in India, and beyond.
Jabroniville wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:21 am -I've tried to learn stuff about these guys, but the religion is really hard to get into, as each God seems to have Male & Female aspects (some of whom are married to them, I think), and there's lots of assorted weirdness here- it's like if someone let Grant Morrison design a pantheon. But they do have Garuda, a giant super-awesome Bird Mount. Kenmadragon explains it as the idea that Gods are the means by which we have to understand the Divine, which is beyond understanding- many Gods have multiple forms, aspects and Avatars, which can include changing appearance or even gender.
I can't apologize for that. If it makes it easier, think of all of them as separate individuals, but those aspects that are married tend to show up together and thus are conflated to be the same. It's like they're one of those couples that are always together, and almost never show up somewhere without their SO.

Also, Grant Morrison transcribed the Kurukshetra War from the Hindu Epic "The Mahabharat" into a comic titled "18 Days". I'm pretty sure he's somewhat familiar with the mythos, at least to the extent that he was able to grok the Epic.

And yeah, Garuda is awesome. He's a massive bird-man who was the son of the rishi Kasyapa, and his origin story before he served Vishnu is epic on its own. Not to mention the dude only eats snakes, and sometimes beats up Nagas to eat them, and Nagas are no pushovers given they're snake-men who wield some really potent magic.

Hell, a lot of the god's mounts are awesome. They're called Vahana's ("that which carries/pulls") and are usually either badass animals or other mythical entities that are tamed and turned into the mounts of the gods, or sometimes even other gods that get turned into mounts in service to more supreme divinities.

For example: Mushika was a gandharva (celestial musician) who once stepped on the toes of a rishi, who got angry and turned Mushika into a giant mouse, but later regretted it and blessed him that gods would bow to Mushika one day. Mushika went on a rampage as a mouse, and terrorized people until Ganesha, as a child, got a lasso and wrangled the rampaging mouse into submission, and made Mushika his mount to fulfill the rishi's compassion since Mushika was now the vahana of the highly respected Ganesha.

Another of the famous Vahana's is Shiva's mount, Nandi. Nandi actually used to be a god of joy, music and dance, depicted as a man-bull (one of the OG minotaurs of myth). Then Shiva took over that job, and Nandi became Shiva's mount, and has served him faithfully since forever.

Most Vahanas tend to either represent the deities who ride them in some way, or represent concepts/forces which the deity masters/tames/dominates since the gods place their mounts beneath them to ride.

And there are other animal-minions out there that aren't Vahanas, like Shesha the Nagaraja who is a servant of Vishnu. He's a primal concept as he's this massive, many-headed snake whose hoods hold all the planets in the universe. He's also the resting bed of Vishnu, who lays atop the serpent like a divan, shaded by Shesha's many hoods, and attended to by his wife Lakshmi, while they float on the cosmic Sea of Milk (from which the Elixir of Immortality is churned) that is guarded by countless Devas in Heaven. Kind of goes to show you how powerful some of the gods in Hinduism are said to be when they treat the First King of the Nagas whose power and breadth encompasses the universe as its omni-present protector... as furniture.
Jabroniville wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:21 am Notable Members:
* Note: Thanks to Kenmadragon for providing so much of this info. A lot of this is direct quotes, so credit him instead of me.
Oh boy. A lot of what I said was in response to other peoples, and not the best of explanations for each of them...
Jabroniville wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:21 amWould bang.

KALI: The God of Destruction once empowered the assassin "Deathtoll" after being pleased by her murderous ways. Kenma: Its not wholly accurate to call Kali the consort of Shiva. She is, but the title isn't that of "Shiva's Wife" - that's Parvati's title. But Parvati and Kali are kind of the same person? But not really? It really depends on who you're asking, because the stories differ widely. Nevertheless, she's absolutely terrifying, vastly powerful, and usually can only be tamed by Shiva (who himself is tamed by Parvati, who may or may not also be Kali as well as Gauri... theirs is an interesting relationship).
... You really wouldn't. :shock:

Just... no. Don't even joke about that, dude. Like holy crap, Kali's terrifying, why? She's Shiva's destructive side and really, really scary.

*shivers*

If you wanted a more restrained war-goddess, Durga might be preferable. She's another of the Shakti-goddesses, but more restrained. Where Kali is the "Ares", Durga is the "Athena". Both are still fearsome and mighty, but Kali is top-tier scary, and her rituals tend to be really, really bloody. Human sacrifice was really common with Kali, and such things were heavily frowned upon by pretty much every other sect within Hinduism.

One of her more famous cults were the Thugee (where the word "thug" comes from, actually, but it was pronounced more like "t" than "th"), who were roving bandits that pretended to be travelers and merchants, that would meet people on the road, and robbed then strangled them in their sleep to offer these murders to Kali. They'd leave the heads by banyan trees (which are where sages typically meditate), and bury the bodies.

One of the few things my Mom is glad about when it came to the British's first arrival in India was that the British took great efforts to infiltrate and dismantle the cult.

Hell, the only time I recall a guy being in Kali's favor not being a murderous warrior or killer was this one 'scholar' who prayed to her for a boon, and won her favor by being brave enough to make a joke about her... and got her to laugh. Then tricked her into giving him both knowledge and wisdom. The man's name escapes me at the moment, but his wit and cunning would later serve him and amuse Kali with his antics. But he was more an exception than the rule.

If you want the really pretty goddesses that are still badasses, there's that one time Vishnu took on the form of the woman enchantress and seductress Mohini in order to steal back a pot containing the Elixir of Immortality (Amrita) from the Asuras to give back to the Devas. She's sometimes married to Shiva (or aspects of Shiva), and her entire mythos is built around being the most drop-dead gorgeous woman in the universe, capable of seducing anyone or anything with her beguiling charms and illusions, driving men to madness with her beauty.

Or any of the other goddesses, especially those of beauty. Like Parvati, or even Lakshmi who is the actual Goddess of Beauty.
Jabroniville wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:21 am Image
YAMA: The God of Death joined Marvel's other Death Gods in a power-grab, but were eaten by The Demogorge for their crimes.
It actually amuses me that you picked the "Chinese Yama" depiction for the image from Megami Tensei. Mostly because in India, Yama looks nothing like that.

Except for the amazingly awesome facial hair. Yama's facial hair is fairly legendary. Especially his mustache, which I recall every depiction of him either on stage or in cinema/tv being touched upon with cartoonish-twirling and grooming. At least, that's what I was shown when I was a kid

But yeah, in India, Yama doesn't wear robes like that, or have a Chinese official's hat, or even carry a Ruler like that. In India, the dude rides around on a massive buffalo that snorts fire (or something), wears skulls and bones on account of his duties are lord of Death, is really rich and sometiems bedecks himself in gold, and wields a massive Mace and an inescapable Noose with which he ensares those who try to cheat Death and drags them away kicking and screaming to the Underworld.

Image

When I was a kid growing up, I used to participate in skits and plays for the local Hindu community. Usually the shorter or simpler stories from the myths. But since it was my Mom and another lady that were running these skits as writer/directors, my participation was kind of mandatory, and I had to be good at it.

One of these plays was the Tale of Markandeya, and in it, I actually played Yama, God of Death. And since we were kids and Yama was kind of the "villain" of the story (mostly because Markandeya is fated to die, and Yama is doing his job), I was told to act all dramatic and imposing. Now, I was sort of a hefty kid, so that wasn't too hard.

But good lord, when I was on stage as Yama, all my acting was Pure HAM. Full on Doctor Doom style pontificating and gesturing, as this dynamic, over-the-top dramatization of "Death Personified". I played a genuine, mustache-twirling villain and it was glorious. My Dad still chuckles whenever my Mom brings it up every now and then.

Good times.
Jabroniville wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:21 am INDRA: He's Lord of Thunder and Lightning, God of the Sky, Storms and Rainfall, King of Heaven, Ruler of the Devas. That last one is an important distinction - he rules over Heaven and the Devas, and while all devas are gods, not all gods are devas. Indra's fairly powerful and skillful, and owner of Vajra - the Thunderbolt - which was a weapon of exceptional power that was a major plot-point during the Mahabharata and the Kurukshetra War. Indra's essentially the same as Zeus in terms of power and domain, only he's not a complete douche, and actually has superiors he answers to.
I believe I mentioned that I got the details here wrong: It wasn't the Vajra that was the major plot-point during the Mahabharata, but another of the Heavenly Arsenal that Indra has access to: the Vasavi Shakti.

Indra doesn't actually use the Vasavi Shakti all that much, simply because it's way too bloody powerful to be used. Not to mention that the weapon has restrictions on its use that would kill Indra if he were to use it that often, unlike his personal weapon the Vajra. The Vasavi Shakti is pretty much only mentioned because Indra decided to gift it to Karna as an apology for tricking noble Karna out of his Kavacha and Kundala (Armor and Earrings) that granted Karna Invincibility (a superlative Defense that would exceed even that of Achilles, as the Kavacha and Kundala of Karna were capable of shrugging off all weapons, mortal or celestial, up to the level of Shiva's Third Eye when fully open). Indra would warn Karna that the noble hero could only use the Vasavi Shakti once, for it wasn't meant to be used by mortals, and that Karna could only use the Vasavi Shakti when he was in imminent peril and danger of dying - using the weapon under any other circumstances would turn the weapon on the user, and Karna would surely die.
Jabroniville wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:21 amOTHERS: There are literally thousands of Gods, so summing them up is largely impossible. "Surya and Ushas are solar deities (though Surya is THE sun god, and all others are just other faces of his, or consorts of some sort), Tvashtri is goddess of artisans of all sorts (and patron of the Sciences, but that's more Saraswati's domain). Garuda is more of a demi-god, and Yama used to be a demi-god, but is now mostly all god."
Actually, in the Vedas, there are traditionally only 33. The list varies depending on when the text was written, and who was writing it, but yeah. The original number was said to be "33". Mostly gods. Some - like Vishnu, Brahma, Shiva, and Shakti - actually Gods with the big-G.

The problem?

Those 33 are actually representative of 330 Million gods.

Also, for you feminists out there, the vast majority of those 330 Million are actually goddesses. :mrgreen:
danelsan wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:19 pm In many ways, it is a good thing that Hinduism doesn't get turned into a bunch of supehero characters with much proeminence. One of them relates to overpowered characters: If Thor is already a power-geek's dream, can you imagine one such author telling stories about a deity-hero getting their hands on multiple high-end Astras?

Mjolnir can be overpowered, with a dozen different limit-break-style cosmic energies, but at least it can't destroy from a whole continent to the entire universe...

Still, if you scale back how strong the Astras can get, a Hindu deity could fill the roles of Hawkeye and Thor in a super team for the most part.
Pretty much.

Also, remember that a bunch of those Astras can be used by mortals and demi-gods. It just takes skill and knowledge to pull them off.

But yeah, could you imagine having to write a comic book where the hero knows something like "This weapon is Infallible. There is No Defense. The weapon Cannot Miss. It also Kills Instantly."

Hell, the only reason the Kurukshetra lasted so long was because most of the major warriors on the battlefield were all capable of using these weapons. To the point that they'd organize their strategies around the idea of having to have a couple of warriors fighting each other with the sole purpose of firing off these massively powerful Astras at the opposing army, and having another warrior fire off a similar or opposing Astra in order to counter or deflect the incoming weapon.

It's like in D&D where two wizards are duking it out, and it's a mix of high-level spellcasting and frantic counter-spelling. And a single mistake would mean a continent gets removed from the map.
danelsan wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:19 pmAs an aside, It is also interesting that some takes on Hindu religion put the Tridevi above the Trimurti, despite the 3 goddesses having what appears at first brush like lesser spheres of influence than their male counterparts. Then again they are expressions of Shakti, which is sometimes considered a supreme deity.
This would be because Shakti is power, and the Tridevi are wedded to the Trimurti.

And, as my father once explained to me: "because like in many marriages, the husband is usually at the mercy of his wife, lest he finds himself on the couch." :lol: :mrgreen:

I joke, I joke.
danelsan wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:19 pmNow that I think on it, a whole team of war goddesses could make for an entertaining series. Imagine how much bickering would Athena "Say no to Eros" and Ishtar "there are sacred prostitutes in my temples" would get into XD
There are actually a bunch of other "war goddesses" out there. And I doubt most of them would get along...

And since they're war goddesses, they'd probably start fighting it out. In which case, they'd probably end up destroying the world in the process...
danelsan wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:19 pmEDIT: Also, with Hindu Yama, Chinese Yanluo-Wang and Japanese Enma Daio being pretty much the same deity by different names (and possibly Korean Yeomra as well, but I'm not informed enough about that one), dude must be the most busy god in the entire cosmos!
Dealing with the dead with at least 3 different cultures ( 2 of which number among the most numerous on the planet, one of which is specifically organized cosmologically as a celestial bureaucracy, and another with all the mess of reincarnations, avatars, emanations, aspects, et cetera), multiple hells and stuff can't be easy. If souls under their care empower death gods, Yama is surely the most powerful of them all, but I bet the others don't envy the amount of work he has to do...
Yeah, Yama, Yanluo-Wang, and Enma Daio are all kinda the same guy. But not in the way that you think.

Yanluo-Wang and Enma Daio are versions of "Buddhist Yama" who himself was inspired by the Hindu Yama. Remember that there was a great deal of interaction between India and China in ancient history, especially with the spread of Buddhism. There was later a great deal of interaction between China and Japan, where Japan then took on these things from Chinese beliefs and incorporated it into their own.

So yeah, Yama was the OG, whereas Yanluo Wang and Enma Daio are other names for this God of Death that came afterward and were altered/modified to fit their people's beliefs and values at the time. So, where Yama of India is much like Hades, Yanluo Wang and Enma Daio are somewhat like Judges of the damned, or bureaucrats that keep the Afterlife running.

But yeah, Yama has a whole lot of work to do. But his job is ensuring that people die and pass on properly. He typically has a bunch of minions and minor functionaries (that are all a part of him as aspects of his own divine being), that do the actual job of being "Grim Reaper", which leaves Yama to only attend to the Deaths of Important Personages. Even then, he's busy ensuring that everyone's souls are properly passing on, minding his minions in their duties, and ensuring that Death is done the way it must, so souls pass on through the cycle of Samsara, and the dead are brought to their respective afterlives in the Underworld (and for the exceptionally virtuous, Heaven).

It's not a bad job, being Death.

But even then, in the Tale of Markandeya, you will note that even Yama, aka Death Himself isn't top-dog in Hinduism. Yama is a god, and even he has to answer to Gods like Shiva.
L-Space wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:50 pm I thought Shiva was female for most of my life because of the summon in Final Fantasy (specifically VIII) and it wasn't until later that I found out Shiva was a dude.
You have no idea how much that grinds my gears.

Sure, Shiva can be considered female, sometimes. But the name "Shiva" is masculine. It's meant to be masculine, and representative of the God as a male figure.

But can you imagine having someone take a look at my name and think "wait, isn't that a girl's name? It was in FF7" and I swear to the gods I want to punch those game-developers in the face for that. It's not even accurate in the least beyond "Shiva has blue-skin". That's... about it.

GAAAH! It's a boy's name!

If you want to make it a girl's name, you just add "-ni" to the end of it! "Shivani"! It's just another character in japanase, iirc, is that so hard?!?
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lady Hellbender! American Gods! Hindu Gods!)

Post by catsi563 »

But in and of itself its not entirely inaccurate as a feminine aspect either because of the multi-aspected and gendered nature of the deva themselves. Shiva while most often depicted as male like all of them has both male and feminine aspects.

Also Ken I was curious about something I read that Hinduism has an interesting contradiction, In that technically there is no Heaven or Hell in Hindu mythos while simultaneously the myths reference people and gods going to both.

Ive come to somewhat understand that heaven and hell are not in Hinduism the same as other myths (ie places of punishment or reward) but more like celestial waiting rooms for lack of better description while the soul cycles back into what ever form its supposed to or moves on into final nirvana. thoughts?
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Re: The Hindu Gods

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kenmadragon wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:05 pm
L-Space wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:50 pm I thought Shiva was female for most of my life because of the summon in Final Fantasy (specifically VIII) and it wasn't until later that I found out Shiva was a dude.
You have no idea how much that grinds my gears.

Sure, Shiva can be considered female, sometimes. But the name "Shiva" is masculine. It's meant to be masculine, and representative of the God as a male figure.

But can you imagine having someone take a look at my name and think "wait, isn't that a girl's name? It was in FF7" and I swear to the gods I want to punch those game-developers in the face for that. It's not even accurate in the least beyond "Shiva has blue-skin". That's... about it.

GAAAH! It's a boy's name!

If you want to make it a girl's name, you just add "-ni" to the end of it! "Shivani"! It's just another character in japanase, iirc, is that so hard?!?
I'm sorry for unearthing this trauma :D.

I did some looking into FF using the name Shiva and I guess there's a bit of debate about whether the summons is named after the Hindu god, Slavic goddess Ziva (who also doesn't have a connection with ice), or is named after the fact that shiver is pronounced with an 'ah' sound at the end in Japan. I wouldn't be surprised if it was combination of these sources, they wanted a mythological name and then gave it ice powers because the name sounded like 'shiver'.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lady Hellbender! American Gods! Hindu Gods!)

Post by Ken »

Then, if you're Jewish, one sits Shiva after a loved one dies.
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Polynesian Gods

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

THE AKUA (Polynesia):
Skyfather:
Rangi/Ranginu/Wakea (Sky)
Others: B'ngudja (Sharks), Gaea/Papa (Earth), Haumea (Childbirth), Kanaloa (Sea), Kane (Light), Ku (War), Lono (Agriculture & Peace), Namaka (Sea), Pele (Volcanoes), Poliahu (Snow), Whiro (Death & Evil)
-The various peoples of Tonga, Hawaii, New Zealand & more worship these guys, though naturally the tale alters in many places (the usual term is "Atua", not "Akua", as well)- Marvel appears to have coalesced all the various cultures into one group, but used mostly Hawaiian names (such as Wakea, Kane & Ku instead of Ranginui, Tane & Tu). Pele (unique to Hawaii) is unquestionably the most famous to Western culture, and she & her sister Namaka fought in order to attain prominence. Pele even slept with her sister's boyfriend, which didn't help matters. The most important Gods are actually "The Four Gods"- Ku, Kane, Kanaloa and Lono.

POLYNESIAN GOD TEMPLATE
PL 10 (133)
STRENGTH
9 STAMINA 9 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10)
Expertise (God) 7 (+10)
Expertise (History) 2 (+5)
Insight 4 (+7)
Intimidation 4 (+8)
Perception 3 (+6)

Advantages: 
Benefit (Status- God), Diehard, Great Endurance, Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"Immortal God"
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrowth) [3]
Immunity 9 (Aging, Drowning, Suffocation, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Pressure, Poison, Disease) [9]
Speed 2 (8 mph) [2]
Leaping 1 (15 feet) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+9 Damage, DC 24)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +9, Fortitude +9, Will +7

Complications:
Responsibility (Respective Pantheons)

Total: Abilities: 82 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 9 / Powers: 15 / Defenses: 12 (129)

Notable Members:
WAKEA: The Sky Father, and man in charge. Births the others with Papahanaumoku. The Maori call a similar deity "Ranginui", hence the multiple names of Marvel's guy.
PAPAHANAUMOKU: The Earth Mother. Naturally, just "Gaea" at Marvel.
KANE: The creator of all things, and ancestor to mankind. Just a minor "God of Light" at Marvel.
HAUMEA: The Goddess of Childbirth, and mother of Pele.
KANALOA: A Sea Goddess in Marvel, but actually a Goddess of Magic and the Underworld (which got her associated with Satan and evil when Christian missionaries showed up).
KU: One of the main four, and a God of War.
LONO: The God of Peace, Music, Agriculture and more.
NAMAKA: Sea Goddess, and rival to Pele, whom she defeats in battle, as the "Sea is always at war with volcanoes".
POLI'AHU: A Snow Goddess, and rival to Pele.
WHIRO: The God of Death and Evil, who consumes corpses to gain strength (hence people cremating their dead), and is responsible for all the evils of the world. Actually part of Maori mythology, not Hawaiian. 
PELE: The creator of the Hawaiian islands, and easily the most famous Hawaiian God to outsiders. She's a Goddess of Fire, Lightning, Volcanos and more, and is known for passion, jealousy and capriciousness, essentially being the most "Greek" of her kind. Pele briefly appears in Chaos War as a daughter of Gaea, aiding Hercules.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lady Hellbender! American Gods! Hindu Gods!)

Post by danelsan »

I wonder if we are gonna find out any member of the forums who is an actual devotee of one of the other pantheons to give us a big info dump like we got for the Devas ^_^
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Mongolian Gods

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE TENGER (Mongolia & Central Asia):
Skyfather:
Tengri (Sky)
Others: Asena, Ay (Moon), Erlik (Evil & Death), Gesar, Koyash (Sun), Kuara (Thunder), Tulpar, Ulgen (Light)
-Another new one to me- I had no idea the Mongols had their own Gods! And they extend all the way to Turkey and Hungary as well! Their only real links to the Marvel Universe involve dealing with the other Godheads to discuss The Celestials, and Genghis Khan's fabled Spirit banner allegedly using the power of Skyfather Tengri to bestow power upon a secret society of Khans- The Agents of Atlas' Jimmy Woo being the latest in a long line.

ASIAN STEPPE GOD TEMPLATE
PL 10 (133)
STRENGTH
10 STAMINA 10 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10)
Expertise (God) 7 (+10)
Expertise (History) 2 (+5)
Insight 4 (+7)
Intimidation 4 (+8)
Perception 3 (+6)

Advantages: 
Benefit (Status- God), Diehard, Great Endurance, Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"Immortal God"
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrowth) [3]
Immunity 9 (Aging, Drowning, Suffocation, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Pressure, Poison, Disease) [9]
Speed 2 (8 mph) [2]
Leaping 1 (15 feet) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +10, Fortitude +10, Will +7

Complications:
Responsibility (Respective Pantheons)

Total: Abilities: 86 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 9 / Powers: 15 / Defenses: 12 (133)

Notable Members:
TENGRI: The chief deity of the Steppes peoples, Tengri is said to have given the mandate to the Khans. Said to appear as a white goose.
ERLIK: The God of the Underworld, his own pride led to him being cast down, much like a certain other Underworld figure in another religion. He has the body of a pig, and a human face.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun May 01, 2022 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Slavic Gods

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

THE DIEVAS (Russia & Slavic Nations):
Skyfather:
Svarog (Sun & Sky)
Others: Lada (Beauty & Youth), Perun (Thunder), Svantovit (War), Stribog (Wind & Sky), Svarozvich (Fire), Milda (Love), Laima (Fate & Luck), Marzana (Witchcraft), Saule (Sun), Sazhbog (Light), Veles (Underworld) 
-These guys are mostly-ignored, especially as Russia first converted to Christianity, then became pretty Atheistic following the Communist Revolution- worship of these guys died out completely (though some festivals remain), and you can't even find much information about them online without a fair bit of effort. Perun has shown up as a super-hero with the People's Protectorate, and a lesser version of Thor, however.

SLAVIC GOD TEMPLATE
PL 10 (135)
STRENGTH
11 STAMINA 11 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+9)
Expertise (God) 6 (+9)
Expertise (History) 2 (+5)
Insight 4 (+7)
Intimidation 4 (+8)
Perception 3 (+6)

Advantages: 
Benefit (Status- God), Diehard, Great Endurance, Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"Immortal God"
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrowth) [3]
Immunity 9 (Aging, Drowning, Suffocation, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Pressure, Poison, Disease) [9]
Speed 2 (8 mph) [2]
Leaping 1 (15 feet) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +9 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +11, Fortitude +10, Will +7

Complications:
Responsibility (Respective Pantheons)

Total: Abilities: 90 / Skills: 20--10 / Advantages: 9 / Powers: 15 / Defenses: 11 (135)

Notable Members:
SVAROG: Despite being their apparent ruler, Svarog is little-known to modern scholars, and appears to be a smith more similar to Hephaestus. In one story, he's a God of Fire whose awakening will cause the end of the world, while some tales equate him with Perun.
PERUN: Perun is notable largely because he's a member of the Soviet Super-Soldiers, aka The People's Protectorate, aka The Winter Guard, and the only Russian God to be a superhero. He's largely a counterpart to Thor, and swaps places with a human being.
MARZANA: A Goddess of Winter who is burned or drowned in effigy every year, even to this day. The church couldn't even stamp out this practice!

Our own BSDigital Q says thus:
What's really funny is that Slavic mythology had a number of Christian-esque characteristics that predated the Slavs' exposure to Christianity
One is that they held that there was a "pre-god" that they called Rod, a primordial entity that was the creator of everything and was omnipotent and omniscient
Also, Veles, who is broadly equivalent to Loki, was a very nasty, Satan-esque figure
Oh, Rod's also funny because he's similar to the Hindu deities, in that a bunch of Slavic gods are actually aspects and avatars of him
Like, there's at least four aspects/avatars, and each one has a male and female version
All separate gods, yet also all part of the same overall entity
It should be noted that a lot of the conception of the Slavic gods is the result of the Slavic pagan religion that still exists in Eastern Europe
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun May 01, 2022 2:02 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Ares
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lady Hellbender! American Gods! Hindu Gods!)

Post by Ares »

You know, the Hindu deities actually had the perfect "out" for any bad showings in fiction: Avatars. It would have been dirt simple to make the "Shiva" Thor fought an Avatar their to test him. It's like Divine Doombots.

And yeah, including the Hindu gods in a comic setting is something that should be treated carefully, but at the same time, I wonder if a lot of Hindu followers wouldn't mind having some of their more heroic deities going around in a Thor-like capacity, helping mortals and fighting cosmic threats? You do have to show them getting injured or losing, which is a problem. But at the same time it is a way to spread some of those teachings via the medium. Some people will get pissed off, sure, but the end result could be something both entertaining and educational. And again, you can have the Avatar thing as a way to have it be "the god" without it being "THE god".

Astra weapons / techniques described that seem to be one part "magical chant" and either a physical weapon or a purely energy attack lends itself to some cool concepts. If were to imagine godly power design for a setting, I'd picturing things like Norse Rune Magic being where magic is locked into particular patterns, it does one thing but does it well, and the amount of runes you can put in something depends on the quality of the material. Thor's hammer is so badass due to its unique material being able to contain several runes of power, but is almost TOO powerful, requiring special gloves to use.

Conversely, the Hindu Astra are designed to be flexible. You'd have a weapon that is nothing on its own, but can be transformed into different forms or have different powers/techniques unlocked with the right mantra / technique. Or you have Astra that are purely called forth from the users own essence, functioning like chi techniques. Weapon Astra require knowledge with and harmonization with the weapon, but rely more on the weapons power to use, while Personal Astra doesn't require a weapon, but requires more from the user. But someone skilled with the mantra might be able to make the personal power cost negligible, so that skill can produce more power.

I definitely don't want that to come off as offensive to anyone far more familiar or versed with the lore than I am. It's just my own thoughts based on what little I know and how it might make for some fun contrasts in a setting where all mythologies are real.

It's likewise interesting listening to those Overly Sarcastic Production videos and have been re-learning a few things about some myths I'd forgotten. Like when Zeus was talked into exposing himself to a mortal in all of his divine glory, his sheer radiance vaporized the mortal, so divine beings too powerful to view in their full glory is pretty recurring. Also a battle where Hercules lead the gods against some giants involved things like Poseidon throwing an ISLAND at one of them and Hermes "borrowing" Hades invisibility helmet to get up to some invisible superspeed shenanigans. Fun stuff.

It's actually got me interested in learning about Celtic / Irish myths and heroes in case I ever want to round out my own settings. Plus now
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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danelsan
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Lady Hellbender! American Gods! Hindu Gods!)

Post by danelsan »

As a side note, the current subject here is making my wait for Scion 2nd edition even harder...
Jabroniville
Posts: 24689
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Celtic Gods

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE TUATHA DE DANAAN (Celtic):
Skyfather:
The Dagda/Eochaid Ollathair (Magic)
Others: Bodb Derg/Red Lord (War), Caber (Speed & Bards), Cernunnos (Animals & The Hunt), Cuchulain, Gwynn (Springtime), Leir (Storms & Sea), Morrigan (Battle Goddess), Niamh (Lakes), Nuada (Warriors), Oberon (King of Faeries), Taranis (Thunder & Elements)
-And I thought the AZTECS produced some odd names- these guys have near-random pronounciation and are kind of a pain in the ass. How does "Cuchulain" become "Coo-Hoolin" when said out loud? And why is it spelled "Tir na nOg"? When was the last time you saw a middle letter capitalized? I can't even follow this religion, with all this weird names (what's with all the "bd" stuff in the names? Is that the sound you make when you twiddle your lips like a Looney Toons character?). The Tuatha De Danaan are Celtic Gods, and represent the people of the British Isles. Their stories feature bands of highly-powerful, but still mortal, men fighting against the Fomorians, who represent the darker forces of nature.

-These guys require mortal hosts to appear in our dimension for any length of time- a pretty big weakness for Gods. That Marvel Encyclopedia has a LOT of these guys in it, despite me never having read an appearance of theirs. And Jesus, no wonder the Celts have a rep for craziness- look at all their War Gods! They have a lot to do with Lady in the Lake-type Arthurian myths in Pre-Christian England, though they got supplanted pretty big by the Church.

-The Tuatha have been at war with their forebears and ancestors, The Fomorians, for generations. Nuadhu was crippled fighting them and had to resign his leadership, but gained a new silver hand and led his people to victory, then ceding leadership to The Dagda. A "Cold War" between the Tuatha and the Asgardians began when the Norsemen repeatedly invaded the British Isles in the 8th Century. This leads to the first appearance of the Celtic Gods in Marvel, as Thor fights a Griffin that's killed a Danaan family, and Leir accuses him of the crime- the two do the standard "battle, then ally" thing, with Leir later leading some Celtic Gods to Asgard in defense against the Egyptian Death God, Seth. He would later attempt to woo Sif, but was brutally rebuffed. Some Celtic Gods are besseeched by the Hyborians of Conan the Barbarian's time. They reside in the "Otherworld", which is often part of where Merlyn hangs out.

-Nuadhu is seen in various forms, at one point being destroyed by the Young Gods when he invades Earth... but another version shows up with the "Skyfathers" group in Infinity Gauntlet, seemingly acting as the head of the Celtic Pantheon. This is largely a bunch of continuity errors.

CELTIC GOD TEMPLATE
PL 10 (133)
STRENGTH
10 STAMINA 10 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 4

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10)
Expertise (God) 7 (+10)
Expertise (History) 2 (+5)
Insight 4 (+7)
Intimidation 4 (+8)
Perception 3 (+6)

Advantages: 
Benefit (Status- God), Diehard, Great Endurance, Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"Immortal God"
Regeneration 2 (Feats: Regrowth) [3]
Immunity 9 (Aging, Drowning, Suffocation, Starvation & Thirst, Heat, Cold, Pressure, Poison, Disease) [9]
Speed 2 (8 mph) [2]
Leaping 1 (15 feet) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +10, Fortitude +10, Will +7

Complications:
Responsibility (Respective Pantheons)

Total: Abilities: 86 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 9 / Powers: 15 / Defenses: 12 (133)

Notable Members:
BODB DERG (aka Red Lord): An evil shapeshifter who opposes the fabled Green Knight. He erodes nature and causes a blight upon the land, and appeared only in the Knights of Pendragon comic until a modern Journey Into Mystery comic where Loki contemplates releasing him from imprisonment temporarily.
NUADA: A former leader of the Tuatha, he lost an arm against the Fir Bolg, and stepped down as leader. When he gained a silver arm, he re-took the leadership, but ceded it to Lugh, who proved his superiority. He was beheaded in battle against Balor of the Fomorians. Marvel's "Nuadhu" appears in different forms, likely because the writers didn't know he'd already been used- Jim Starlin uses him as the Celtic Godhead (hanging out with Odin, Zeus, Itzamna and others in Asgard during The Infinity Gauntlet), the Young Gods slay an evil guy with this name (who is thought to have been a human being who'd been imbued with Nuada's might, but went insane with power after his earthly demise).
LUGH: Lugh is a God of craftsmen and the Sun. His son is the hero Chuchullain, and he wields an unstoppable fiery spear, a sling stone, and a sword named The Answerer (which is pretty goddamn bad-ass). He is the slayer of his grandfather, Balor, driving his single eye (that kills all it looks upon) out the back of his head, because HOLY SHIT, you don't want to mess with the Celts. Celtic Gods, however, are not immortal- Lugh was killed by the sons of the man he'd killed for sleeping with his wife- the man was later revived by his father, The Dagda. Lugh does not appear in Marvel.
CROM: The wisened, harsh old man worshipped by the people in Conan the Barbarian may be a Celtic God. Crom is grumpy and accepts no prayers- the ONLY boons he will has ever gifted his people are "the strength in their sword arm and the fire in their heart". Because he is METAL.
THE MORRIGAN: The Morrigan is associated with War and Fate, and often appears as a crow. She appears before Cuchullain and does a bunch of "you're totes gonna die, dude" stuff, making her a menacing figure. Some associate her with Morgan Le Fay, but it is likely Arthurian story writers were just inspired by the name.
SCATHACH: A Warrior Goddess known in Marvel primarily for being the Goddess to whom Red Sonja made her vow to never lay with a man until he'd defeated her in battle. The original figure in myth is a Pictish Goddess from a fairly legendary warrior culture in Scotland.
THE LADY OF THE LAKE: A part of Arthurian Myth, she's associated with Celtic Gods in Marvel, and has aided Excalibur, the Knights of Pendragon and others from time to time, even leading the Avengers West Coast against Doctor Doom. She appears in numerous different forms, and sometimes acts very differently- the sign that there's no real "set" version with editorial edicts in place.
THE DAGDA: The God of Manliness (no literally, that's what Wikipedia says), Strength, Fertility & Agriculture, he has control over life, death, crops, the weather and the seasons. Basically, he's the man in charge. I don't know why he's called THE Dagda, because apparently he was always named that. He owned a Mace that could kill nine men with one blow, but return the slain to life with the other side; a magic cauldron that was bottomless; a harp that could put the seasons in their correct order; and two pigs- one that was always growing, and another that was always roasting. The Dagda took over the Tuatha when Nuada was injured in battle. He had sex with The Morrigan in exchange for a battle plan against the Fomorians, and is sometimes seen as a comic figure, dragging his giant penis along the ground and wearing a tunic that is too short. He is said to have died in battle against Cethlenn during "the second battle of Magh Tuiredh".
THE FIR BOLG: Not Tuatha, but the humans who'd settled Ireland before the Tuatha arrived- they were defeated and sent away. Dungeons & Dragons uses the name for a race of Giants.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun May 01, 2022 2:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab's Builds! (Lady Hellbender! American Gods! Hindu Gods!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Leir, Caber and Cuchullain will all be getting separate builds, hence their absence.
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