Jab’s Builds! (Beaker! Sam Eagle! Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Genis-Vell! Phalanx! Wolverine!)

Post by Batgirl III »

MacynSnow wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 6:36 pm
Batgirl III wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 4:33 pm It’s hard to be a fan of a frequently “power geeked” character, especially one that isn’t just popular with the munchkin fan base, but just plain popular with everyone and a bit of a “pet” for the writers... Doubly so when those writers have “Protection from Editorial +5 Auras.”

Can you say “Bat-God,” boys and girls?

So I feel a lot of empathy with Logan’s fans. You want the guy to be competent, but not unfailibly skilled. You want him to be a good scrapper and clever fighter, not the world’s most deadliest martial arts master ever... You want him to be the best there is at what he does, you just wish the writers would remember that he doesn’t do everything.
There's a couple of issues of Marvel Two-In-One where Logan teamed with Shang-Chi and later Iron Fist.During the Obligatory "Hero vs. Hero" fight,Wolverine got beat-up BADLY by both guys due to their superior skills.

A couple of years later,during "Wolverine Mania",he admitted to jubilee that if he took on either guy in a re-match he'd STILL lose,as they were just that good....
Logan shouldn’t tell Jubilee that, he should tell the writers.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Genis-Vell! Phalanx! Wolverine!)

Post by MacynSnow »

Batgirl III wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 6:40 pm
MacynSnow wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 6:36 pm
Batgirl III wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 4:33 pm It’s hard to be a fan of a frequently “power geeked” character, especially one that isn’t just popular with the munchkin fan base, but just plain popular with everyone and a bit of a “pet” for the writers... Doubly so when those writers have “Protection from Editorial +5 Auras.”

Can you say “Bat-God,” boys and girls?

So I feel a lot of empathy with Logan’s fans. You want the guy to be competent, but not unfailibly skilled. You want him to be a good scrapper and clever fighter, not the world’s most deadliest martial arts master ever... You want him to be the best there is at what he does, you just wish the writers would remember that he doesn’t do everything.
There's a couple of issues of Marvel Two-In-One where Logan teamed with Shang-Chi and later Iron Fist.During the Obligatory "Hero vs. Hero" fight,Wolverine got beat-up BADLY by both guys due to their superior skills.

A couple of years later,during "Wolverine Mania",he admitted to jubilee that if he took on either guy in a re-match he'd STILL lose,as they were just that good....
Logan shouldn’t tell Jubilee that, he should tell the writers.
You know you can't tell today's writers anything...... :lol:
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Genis-Vell! Phalanx! Wolverine!)

Post by Woodclaw »

Ares wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 4:11 pm In a weird way, Wolverine is very much like Superman. Not in terms anything character related, but in that I like the CHARACTER, but I really cannot stand a lot of his fans or fanboy writers.

Wolverine being able to fight the Hulk actually makes sense to me. It's a classic "strength vs skill" fight, only Logan is less skilled than most folks you'd need for this kind of match up (I tend to rate Logan lower in skill than guys like Batman, Shang Chi, Iron Fist and the like), but compensates with a healing factor, adamantium skeleton, and claws that let him potentially inflict real damage to the Hulk. It makes for a fun match up and rivalry, especially given how frickin mangry the pair can get.

Granted, the Hulk's healing factor ALSO got played up to stupid levels, to the point where it's less that he's really durable and more that he just heals from whatever punishment he takes. Is it any wonder modern healing factors annoy me?

But it's when the writers basically go all Jeph Loeb/Grant Morrison Superman Love on the guy that it gets annoying. Granted, I just might be bitter because frequently characters I like get shown up during such lovefests for the uber-popular characters, but I like to think I have some actual rationale there.
Batgirl III wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 6:40 pm
MacynSnow wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 6:36 pm
Batgirl III wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 4:33 pm It’s hard to be a fan of a frequently “power geeked” character, especially one that isn’t just popular with the munchkin fan base, but just plain popular with everyone and a bit of a “pet” for the writers... Doubly so when those writers have “Protection from Editorial +5 Auras.”

Can you say “Bat-God,” boys and girls?

So I feel a lot of empathy with Logan’s fans. You want the guy to be competent, but not unfailibly skilled. You want him to be a good scrapper and clever fighter, not the world’s most deadliest martial arts master ever... You want him to be the best there is at what he does, you just wish the writers would remember that he doesn’t do everything.
There's a couple of issues of Marvel Two-In-One where Logan teamed with Shang-Chi and later Iron Fist.During the Obligatory "Hero vs. Hero" fight,Wolverine got beat-up BADLY by both guys due to their superior skills.

A couple of years later,during "Wolverine Mania",he admitted to jubilee that if he took on either guy in a re-match he'd STILL lose,as they were just that good....
Logan shouldn’t tell Jubilee that, he should tell the writers.
Pretty much any character can be power-geeked up to stupid level (heck they even tried it with Jubilee in Generation X).

As everyone else already said the problem with the likes of Wolverine and Batman (who are like a giant billboard of their respective companies) and to a slightly lesser extent Superman, Spider-man and Iron-man is when a fanboy got to write them.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Genis-Vell! Phalanx! Wolverine!)

Post by Batgirl III »

Not every fanboy who takes the wheel is a bad thing, Christopher Priest fanboy’d for Black Panther and completely revived the character who’d been moribund since his Jungle Action days. Jim Shooter was a fanboy (and literally a boy, since he was 14) when he started writing LSH. Jeff Loeb is probably the only good Superman scribe since the 2000s...

I think the most problems stem from creators who get “too big” and stop listening to editors, critics, and their audiences.
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Wolverine (Bone Claws)

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

WOLVERINE (James "Logan" Howlett, aka Patch)- Bone Claws
Created By:
Len Wein & John Romita
First Appearance: The Incredible Hulk #180-181 (Oct.-Nov. 1975)
Role: The Bad-Ass, The Anti-Hero, The Loner, The Protector of Little Girls, Claw Guy, Animal Guy
Group Affiliations: The X-Men, Weapon X/Department H, The Avengers, X-Force, S.H.I.E.L.D., The Hand, The Horsemen of Apocalypse, Alpha Flight, HYDRA, The New Fantastic Four
Avengers Grade: A-Level
PL 10 (221)
STRENGTH
4 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 6
FIGHTING 14 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 5 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 3 (+8)
Athletics 10 (+14)
Deception 6 (+8)
Expertise (Survival) 10 (+15)
Expertise (Streetwise) 8 (+11)
Expertise (Military) 5 (+8)
Expertise (Samurai) 8 (+11)
Expertise (History) 7 (+9)
Insight 4 (+9)
Intimidation 11 (+13)
Investigation 5 (+10)
Perception 8 (+13)
Stealth 6 (+11)
Treatment 2 (+5)
Vehicles 1 (+6)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Assessment, Benefit (Ambidexterity), Close Attack, Daze (Intimidation), Diehard, Fast Grab, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Claws) 2, Improved Grab, Improved Initiative 2, Improved Smash, Jack-of-All-Trades, Languages 3 (Several), Last Stand (HP to Ignore Damage for One Round), Power Attack, Precise Attack (Close/Concealment), Ranged Attack 2, Seize Initiative, Startle, Takedown 2, Ultimate Perception Skill, Ultimate Will Check, Ultimate Fortitude Check, Weapon Break, Well-Informed

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Animalistic Physiology & Healing"
"Healing Factor"
Regeneration 12 (Feats: Regrow Limbs) [13]
Immunity 3 (Aging, Disease, Poison) [3]
Features 1: Can Be On More Super-Teams At Once Than Is Actually Possible [1]

"Animal Senses" Senses 9 (Acute, Extended & Accurate Scent, Extended Vision & Hearing, Low-Light Vision, Tracking 2- Scent) [9]
"Claws" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Split) [3]

Offense:
Unarmed +15 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Claws +15 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +14

Defenses:
Dodge +13 (DC 23), Parry +14 (DC 24), Toughness +6, Fortitude +10, Will +12

Complications:
Vulnerable/Responsibility (Brainwashing)- Wolverine can and has been brainwashed many times. His Will Check is often lower against this type of assault.
Involuntary Transformation (Berserker Rages)- Wolverine greatly fears falling into a homicidal, uncontrollable rage, resulting in him Power & All-Out Attacking anyone who gets too close.
Relationship (Various Women)- Rose, Jean Grey, Elektra, Mariko Yoshida, Silver Fox, Snowbird, Heather Hudson, etc. The ones he hasn't slept with, he wants to. Logan is a mack daddy.
Relationship (Jean Grey)- Among Logan's longest-term crushes was on Jean Grey- he and Cyclops loved the same woman, though Logan willingly stepped aside because he realized that Jean truly loved Scott.
Relationship (Storm)- The two have a quasi-romantic relationship that goes back a long time- Wolverine notably supported Storm against Cyclops, and respected her authority for years.
Relationship (Nightcrawler)- The two were old-school drinking buddies. Kurt is probably Logan's closest actual friend.
Honor (Samurai)- Logan follows the code of Bushi-Do if he is able to.
Relationship (Teenage Girls)- Others may raise eyebrows, but he has taken both Kitty Pryde & Jubilee under his wing and taught them about life, honor and fighting.
Rivalry (Cyclops)- At first competing over a woman, and Cyke's straight-laced leadership of the squad, the two never did quite get along. When Jean died and Scott went off with Emma Frost, things got worse, and finally hit a head when the X-Men suffered a "schism" and each formed their own school.
Enemy (Sabretooth)- Victor Creed is obsessed with hunting down and killing Logan or his loved ones. The two's blood feud has gone on for decades.
Enemy (Various Others)- Matus'o Tsurayaba murdered Logan's beloved Mariko on their wedding night, poisoning her to death. Bloodscream & Roughouse are recurring Jobbers. Cyber is perhaps Logan's most-feared enemy. The Hand hates him because... reasons. Lady Deathstrike is obsessed with killing Logan because he's using the adamantium-bonding process invented by her late father. His son Daken is a heartless murderer, and Logan was forced to drown him. Plenty of others out there, too- including many One-Shot foes.
Motivation (Discovering His Past)- The ULTIMATE "Mysterious Past" guy in comics, Logan did not know his own history for decades, and has suffered frequent mind-wipes. He also has a tendency to meet figures from his past who know him well, even if he's forgotten them (Maverick, Cable, Mister Sinister, etc.).

Total: Abilities: 90 / Skills: 94--47 / Advantages: 34 / Powers: 29 / Defenses: 21 (221)

-Logan with Bone Claws is slightly faster and more agile than Adamantium Claws Wolverine, and heals faster, but is less powerful overall. This all came about in a 1990s storyline where Magneto ripped out Wolverine's adamantium when Logan slashed him in the chest- Xavier brain-wiped Magneto as a result, leading to Onslaught much later. Genesis (Cable's son from the future) later captured Logan and tried to give the Adamantium back to him, but Logan rejected it (offing most of the Dark Riders in the process), becoming more feral as a result (lower all Mental Stats). This was all later undone by Apocalypse, in order to make Logan the new Horseman of Death.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Genis-Vell! Phalanx! Wolverine!)

Post by Ares »

Batgirl III wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 8:10 pm Not every fanboy who takes the wheel is a bad thing, Christopher Priest fanboy’d for Black Panther and completely revived the character who’d been moribund since his Jungle Action days. Jim Shooter was a fanboy (and literally a boy, since he was 14) when he started writing LSH. Jeff Loeb is probably the only good -
. . . . sorry Jab, I know you've heard this rant from me a dozen times already, buuuuuuutttttttt . . . .

Going to have to stop you right there BG3, because Jeph Loeb is EXACTLY the kind of guy I'm talking about when I talk about bad fanboy writers. And I do agree, Jeff wrote some decent Superman stories, but he's also very Jim Starlin in how he showcases his character being awesome: namely at other characters expense.

At one point, Jeph was writing THREE Superman related titles: Superman, Superman/Batman and Supergirl. In Superman, Jeph was part of the mastermind behind Our Worlds At War, wherein Superman essentially when Super Sayian and was shown to single-handedly defeat things that took out entire teams of other heroes, including the Justice League. Jeph wrote a Doomsday that completely dominated Martian Manhunter, claiming that he was "no Superman", and then followed it up with Superman beating Doomsday into the ground in a straight up fight.

He then wrote several Superman/Batman storylines that had the duo beat up basically half the heroes and villains in the DCU. This includes an alternate timeline where a now evil Superman overpowered and killed Uncle Sam who was wielding a Green Lantern ring, then went on to shatter Wonder Woman's magic braclets with a punch, beat her half to death, then strangle her to death with her own lasso. This also re-introduced the classic Supergirl to the DCU, which included killing off Harbinger and having Superman just straight up kick Darkseid's butt and imprison him in the Source Wall (the animated movie adaptation did a better job). And then later, Superman just . . . . pulls Darkseid back out of the Source Wall, which is suppose to be an inescapable prison, because, well, Superman.

And then we had his crowning achievement: Supergirl. Where he actually looked like he was downplaying things after a fashion, because he implied several times that Supergirl was actually more powerful than Superman, being stronger, faster, etc. And he demonstrated this by having Supergirl go around the DCU and either defeat the other half of the superheros of Earth, or make them look completely weak and redundant compared to her, including folks like the JSA and the Justice League. And then we got the crowning moment, where you Supergirl had been split into her "good" and "evil" halves, and both halves needed to be taken down by Superman and Wonder Woman. To his credit, he had Wonder Woman outskill her Supergirl to take her down. But Superman? He just straight up dominates her in a fight, telling her that the only reason she appeared more powerful was because she never holds back, while he always does. And when he stops holding back, he can whup her. So, in essence, Jeph had Supergirl beat up half of the DCU so that Superman could then beat her up, thus defeating the people she did by proxy.

And that's not even getting into his Red Hulk shenanigans.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Genis-Vell! Phalanx! Wolverine!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

ditto
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Genis-Vell! Phalanx! Wolverine!)

Post by MacynSnow »

HalloweenJack wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 9:24 pmditto
....
At least use more than one word jack....
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Genis-Vell! Phalanx! Wolverine!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

MacynSnow wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 9:45 pm
HalloweenJack wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 9:24 pmditto
....
At least use more than one word jack....
ah sorry.




*ahem*....ditto for me.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Genis-Vell! Phalanx! Wolverine!)

Post by MacynSnow »

HalloweenJack wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 10:57 pm
MacynSnow wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 9:45 pm
HalloweenJack wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 9:24 pmditto
....
At least use more than one word jack....
ah sorry.




*ahem*....ditto for me.
MUCH BETTER ...*gives jack a cookie*
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Genis-Vell! Phalanx! Wolverine!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

and that's good enough for me
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Mariko Yashida

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image

MARIKO YASHIDA
Created By:
Chris Claremont & John Byrne
First Appearance: The Uncanny X-Men #118 (Feb. 1979)
Role: The Humanizing Influence (on Wolverine), Delicate Japanese Woman
PL 1 (25), PL 3 (25) Saves
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 0 AGILITY 0
FIGHTING 0 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Expertise (Criminal) 4 (+6)
Insight 2 (+5)

Advantages: 
Benefit 2 (Status- Yakuza Obayun)

Offense:
Unarmed +2 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Initiative +0

Defenses:
Dodge +2 (DC 12), Parry +0 (DC 10), Toughness +0, Fortitude +1, Will +4

Complications:
Relationship (Wolverine)- Mariko deeply loves Logan, but often finds him too brutal for her, or feels that she is too dishonored for him.

Total: Abilities: 16 / Skills: 6--3 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 4 (25)

-In a rather brilliant, perceptive move, when it came time to "humanize" the gruff, grumbly Wolverine a bit, Claremont & Byrne created not a "perfect match" (a bad-ass chick), but his complete opposite. Mariko was everything Logan wasn't- high-class, cultured, sensitive and delicate. And this made LOGAN more interesting, because he had to express gentle behavior to match her. At a panel at a Comic Expo, Tom DeFalco explained to the audience that the Supporting Cast needs to "bring things out" of the main characters, and inform the audience about their various aspects. And with Mariko, we now got Wolverine's sensitive side; his romantic aspects, and the ways even HE could be delicate. It was also the big step towards introducing some Japanophilia to X-Men, as well as Marvel Comics as a whole.

-Of course, since this was comics, Mariko had a Dark Past. Claremont was REALLY, REALLY BIG on never allowing anyone, anywhere, to be "normal". And so her father was Lord Shingen- a Yakuza Obayun (leader). And her half-brother was the Silver Samurai, an evil mutant. And she was the cousin of Sunfire. In a heartbreaking moment for Logan, she was married to her father's associate in another Yaukuza family, in order to solidify a connection. Her husband was cruel, abusing her regularly, while Wolverine was manipulated into killing another of Shingen's rivals, horrifying and disgusting Mariko when she saw him enter his "berserker rage" in battle.

-Mariko eventually planned to kill her father and commit seppuku in recompense, but Logan stopped her by slaying Shingen in a fair, honorable battle. Things seemed to be happy... but alas, this was the era of "ANGST ANGST ANGST ALL THE TIME", and so the wedding was stopped when Mastermind controlled Mariko into rejecting Logan at the altar. Then when that was resolved, she wanted to unravel her father's criminal empire before settling down. And finally, tragically, she was murdered by blowfish venom on the orders of criminal rival Matus'o Tsurayaba- Logan was forced to end Mariko's life himself, to spare her from the pain of the venom.

-Mariko has apparently been resurrected in that "The Hand resurrects people to serve as their agents" mess, facing Old Man Logan. No idea how long that'll last, or if she'll make an actual comeback.

-I still feel like this death was a waste, just dogpiling on the angst. Though I guess since angst is the name of the game for Marvel's mutants, and they wouldn't want Wolverine to lose his "Cool Factor" by settling down and being, ugh, HAPPY. But Mariko brought out a side in Logan we've never really seen since then. Sure, he loved Jean Grey and others, but only Mariko really gave off that Yamato Nadeshiko, honor-bound, "delicate woman" thing that contrasted Logan SO STRONGLY, and made him want to be better. All of Logan's other girlfriends turned out to be bad-asses or super-heroines. Nobody else really brought out of him what Mariko could.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Genis-Vell! Phalanx! Wolverine!)

Post by Batgirl III »

Mariko's death was great... Okay, that sounds weird. Let me retry: the story that featured Mariko's death was great. It was a doomed romance from the start with as close to Shakespearean themes as your were going to find in a mainstream Bronze Age comic book. The problem sets in with the continual refusal of comic book authors to leave previous story-lines in the past. They have to revisit, revamp, reboot, and regurgitate popular stories from yesteryear to the point that it soils the original.

See also Dark Phoenix, Judas Contract, A Death in the Family, and Watchmen.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Genis-Vell! Phalanx! Wolverine!)

Post by MacynSnow »

Fun fact:On the day of Mariko's every year,Logan pays a visit to Matus'o and takes a body part then lay's it on her grave marker.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Genis-Vell! Phalanx! Wolverine!)

Post by Ken »

MacynSnow wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 1:10 am Fun fact:On the day of Mariko's every year,Logan pays a visit to Matus'o and takes a body part then lay's it on her grave marker.
His own body part, or somebody else's?
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