Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
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KorokoMystia
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Re: Predator X

Post by KorokoMystia »

Jabroniville wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:32 am PREDATOR X
Created By:
Christopher Yost, Craig Kyle & Paco Medina
First Appearance: New X-Men #34 (2007)
Role: Ravenous Monster
Group Affiliations: The Weapon Plus Program
These things seem to look different in almost every picture I've seen of them..But I guess that's not that surprising, since not all artists are good at drawing monsters.
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Ares
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Bloodscream & Roughouse! Sabretooth! Cyber!)

Post by Ares »

Spectrum wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:41 pm
Ares wrote: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:51 pm Near the end of the war, with America on the verge of losing, American scientists create the Cosmic Cube, and use it to retcon Steve Rogers as a hero for America, depriving Hydra of its greatest champion, and single-handedly allowing them to win the war.
Let me see if I got this straight. American scientists develop the technology to radically alter the nature of reality, or at least make changes to the timeline. Instead to countering one of the countless atrocities of the war, or even keeping it from happening, the best use of this incredible reality changing device is to.. make one of the biggest heels into a face?
Yes. Instead of saying "Hitler died in World War 1" or "We re-worked the Treaty of Versailles so that Germany never experienced the economic hardship that lead the country to the point where Hitler could seize power", it was "Lets make Hydra's greatest champion our greatest champion".

Like I said, stupid.
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KorokoMystia
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Bloodscream & Roughouse! Sabretooth! Cyber!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

Ares wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:58 pm
Spectrum wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:41 pm
Ares wrote: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:51 pm Near the end of the war, with America on the verge of losing, American scientists create the Cosmic Cube, and use it to retcon Steve Rogers as a hero for America, depriving Hydra of its greatest champion, and single-handedly allowing them to win the war.
Let me see if I got this straight. American scientists develop the technology to radically alter the nature of reality, or at least make changes to the timeline. Instead to countering one of the countless atrocities of the war, or even keeping it from happening, the best use of this incredible reality changing device is to.. make one of the biggest heels into a face?
Yes. Instead of saying "Hitler died in World War 1" or "We re-worked the Treaty of Versailles so that Germany never experienced the economic hardship that lead the country to the point where Hitler could seize power", it was "Lets make Hydra's greatest champion our greatest champion".

Like I said, stupid.
The Command and Conquer: Red Alert game series proved that you have to be very careful when altering the timeline. For example, erasing Hitler from history only caused the Soviets to declare war instead, while erasing Einstein from history caused Japan to suddenly join the war too. (It's a silly game series.) But yeah, the whole Hydra Cap thing is still really, really undescribably dumb.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Bloodscream & Roughouse! Sabretooth! Cyber!)

Post by Woodclaw »

Ares wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:58 pm
Spectrum wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:41 pm
Ares wrote: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:51 pm Near the end of the war, with America on the verge of losing, American scientists create the Cosmic Cube, and use it to retcon Steve Rogers as a hero for America, depriving Hydra of its greatest champion, and single-handedly allowing them to win the war.
Let me see if I got this straight. American scientists develop the technology to radically alter the nature of reality, or at least make changes to the timeline. Instead to countering one of the countless atrocities of the war, or even keeping it from happening, the best use of this incredible reality changing device is to.. make one of the biggest heels into a face?
Yes. Instead of saying "Hitler died in World War 1" or "We re-worked the Treaty of Versailles so that Germany never experienced the economic hardship that lead the country to the point where Hitler could seize power", it was "Lets make Hydra's greatest champion our greatest champion".

Like I said, stupid.
Yeah, while it can be argued that a too massive change in history could cause countless ripples, the entire idea was really fucked up to begin with. It's not just the fact that they pretty much took a shit upon everything Steve Rogers was but, more importantly, they missed one of the key points of the character: Steve doesn't consider himself special! Just before the final battle in First Avenger the Skull asks Cap what made him special and the answer is "Nothing, I'm just a guy from Brooklin." For me that's the quintessential Cap, his real superpower: he didn't win the war by himself, he inspired others to do so. On the other hand the entire storyline made him pretty much an instrument of fate a linchpin in world's history, pretty much defining that the entire MU rests on his shoulders and it doesn't matter what happens to the rest of the universe because everything must hinge on Cap ... I'm sorry but that's just bullshit.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken!)

Post by Batgirl III »

While I won't deny that "The Rot" probably started in Marvel around Disassembled, I also have to admit that that was the story that got me back to reading comics voraciously after a long extended absence. I understand people's problems with Bendis, but I liked his approach to dialogue (before I came to realize that "snappy banter" is all he knows how to do) and the art helped too.
The problem usually isn’t the story itself — Avengers Dissambled and Identity Crisis are both pretty good — it’s with the cascading effects that follow after them, almost always a result of executive meddling, editorial mandates, and individual authors feuding with each other.

One More Day is a well written story about loss, love, and grief. In a sane world, it would have ended with Peter accepting his beloved Aunt’s passing, M.J. consoling her husband, and them growing as people (and Spidey kicking Mephisto’s pointy red butt, it is a comic book after all!) You know, like Peter did the first time Aunt May passed away in the mid-Nineties before that was hamfistedly retcon’d.

But because of orders from on-high, J. Michael Straczynski had to write the whole stupid “the devil wants to buy your marriage” plot. Uh-huh. Hell, even as stupid as that was, it might have been an interesting story arc for a few months afterward... But no. It was the new status quo.

Likewise, Identity Crisis was an intriguing murder myster (something we don’t see enough of in comics these days) which had something interesting to say on the whole “how do superheroes punish the bad guys” question. It helped bring a needed popularity boost to C- and D-List characters and shake-up the status quo in how all the A-List heroes worked together.

In a sane world, Identity Crisis would have been resolved as it was. But the follow-up would have been 53, a new JLA roster, and a few new solo books featuring the newly re-popularized C- and D-List heroes or the diversity legacies: Jamie Reyes, Kate Kane, etc.

But, once again, we see it get pushed too far. The whole Brother Eye / Omac / Bat-Dick storyline that grew from the seeds planted here. It didn’t bear fruit, it was just the Rot.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken!)

Post by drkrash »

I wonder (and I'm talking out of thin air here) if some of these story plotting sessions literally sound good on paper, including the ramifications that come from them. But without editorial constraint - or even with editorial constraint but not engagement outside a bubble of only a few people - the bigger problems with the stories aren't revealed till its too late. I know I've written what I thought were some awesome RPG scenarios that proved to be the suck once they actually hit the table.

I dunno.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken!)

Post by Ken »

Batgirl III wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:34 pm
While I won't deny that "The Rot" probably started in Marvel around Disassembled, I also have to admit that that was the story that got me back to reading comics voraciously after a long extended absence. I understand people's problems with Bendis, but I liked his approach to dialogue (before I came to realize that "snappy banter" is all he knows how to do) and the art helped too.
The problem usually isn’t the story itself — Avengers Dissambled and Identity Crisis are both pretty good — it’s with the cascading effects that follow after them, almost always a result of executive meddling, editorial mandates, and individual authors feuding with each other.

One More Day is a well written story about loss, love, and grief. In a sane world, it would have ended with Peter accepting his beloved Aunt’s passing, M.J. consoling her husband, and them growing as people (and Spidey kicking Mephisto’s pointy red butt, it is a comic book after all!) You know, like Peter did the first time Aunt May passed away in the mid-Nineties before that was hamfistedly retcon’d.

But because of orders from on-high, J. Michael Straczynski had to write the whole stupid “the devil wants to buy your marriage” plot. Uh-huh. Hell, even as stupid as that was, it might have been an interesting story arc for a few months afterward... But no. It was the new status quo.

Likewise, Identity Crisis was an intriguing murder myster (something we don’t see enough of in comics these days) which had something interesting to say on the whole “how do superheroes punish the bad guys” question. It helped bring a needed popularity boost to C- and D-List characters and shake-up the status quo in how all the A-List heroes worked together.

In a sane world, Identity Crisis would have been resolved as it was. But the follow-up would have been 53, a new JLA roster, and a few new solo books featuring the newly re-popularized C- and D-List heroes or the diversity legacies: Jamie Reyes, Kate Kane, etc.

But, once again, we see it get pushed too far. The whole Brother Eye / Omac / Bat-Dick storyline that grew from the seeds planted here. It didn’t bear fruit, it was just the Rot.
Identity Crisis was shit from start to finish. There are things it could've been but it would have required a major rewrite from the get go.
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Re: Daken

Post by M4C8 »

Jabroniville wrote: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:11 am Image

DAKEN (Akihiro, aka Dark Wolverine)
Created By:
Daniel Way & Steve Dillon
First Appearance: Wolverine Origins #10 (March 2007)
Role: The Mirror Image Villain, The Sudden Son, The Loner, Claw Guy, Animal Guy
Group Affiliations: The Dark X-Men, The Dark Avengers
Avengers Grade: C-Level
PL 10 (186)
STRENGTH
4 STAMINA 5 AGILITY 6
FIGHTING 12 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 (+10)
Athletics 4 (+8)
Close Combat (Claws) 1 (+13)
Deception 5 (+8)
Expertise (History) 3 (+5)
Insight 2 (+4)
Intimidation 7 (+10)
Investigation 3 (+5)
Perception 5 (+7)
Persuasion 6 (+9)
Sleight of Hand 5 (+5)
Stealth 7 (+13)

Advantages: 
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Benefit (Ambidexterity), Damaging Escape, Follow-Up Strike, Improved Critical (Claws), Improved Initiative, Improved Smash, Power Attack, Startle, Takedown 2

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Animalistic Physiology & Healing"
"Healing Factor" 
Regeneration 10 (Feats: Regrowth) [11]
Immunity 3 (Aging, Disease, Poison) [3]
Enhanced Advantages 2: Diehard, Great Endurance [2]
"Animal Senses" Senses 9 (Acute, Extended & Accurate Scent, Extended Vision & Hearing, Low-Light Vision, Tracking 2- Scent) [9]

"Claws" Strength-Damage +3 (Feats: Improved Critical 2, Split) (Extras: Penetrating 5) [11]
"Telepathic Mind Trap" Immunity 2 (Mind-Reading) [2]

"Pheromones- Base Emotions" Affliction 10 (Fort; Dazed/Compelled) (Extras: Area- Scent Perception, Cumulative) (Flaws: Limited Degree) [20]
Concealment (Scent) 1 [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Claws +12 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +12

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +13 (DC 23), Toughness +5, Fortitude +10, Will +7

Complications:
Enemy (Wolverine, The Punisher)

Total: Abilities: 68 / Skills: 52--26 / Advantages: 12 / Powers: 60 / Defenses: 17 (186)

Daken- Short-Lived Mega-Villain:
-Y'know, I have to say that "Suddenly Introduced Kids" is one of my least-favourite comic book tropes, and least-favourite tropes in general. It smacks of soap opera storytelling, cheapens characters (especially if the character was always aware of the children- like this would never come up before? Looking at YOU, Black Lightning), and more. However, Wolverine is one of the few guys it works for. I mean, the guy's been alive for over a century, been brainwashed a million times, and is generally not that open with people, so you can buy that he has a mystery kid floating around out there.

-Daken was created to contrast his father (he was the son of Logan and a Japanese woman in the 1940s)- going the "wild hack & slash warrior" route, compared to Wolverine's attempts to take control of his destiny. Unfortunately, he got SO big that he just ended up being a part of every single thing Wolverine did for so long, to the point where people got sick of him VERY fast, ruining the character. Never mind that Wolverine had so many clawed adversaries ANYWAY that throwing in a Mirror Image Villain as a direct copy was rather boring.

Daken Debuts:
-Daken first shows up in a sequel to Origin that shows Wolverine living with a Japanese woman after World War II. She's killed by the Winter Soldier on behalf of Romulus, who seeks to harm Wolverine- her unborn son survives thanks to some early-onset Healing Factor. He is adopted by a childless couple, but grows up bullied over his half-breed heritage, called "Daken" ("mongrel"). The couple finally become pregnant, and when he overhears his adoptive mother say she doesn't like Daken, the boy kills her. His father soon commits suicide rather than harm Daken, and he's soon taken in by Romulus, who performs some harsh training (with Cyber as a trainer), turning Daken into a full-blown psychopath. He appears to be bisexual, but is so homicidal that sex is about nothing but power to him.

-He is finally sent after Logan, who's shocked to discover that he has a son. Daken is well-trained, but unpracticed in the field- he glories in violence, doing things just to piss Wolverine off. When he discovers the truth about his mother's death, he allies with Logan against Romulus, and kills his old mentor Cyber in the process. However, immediately afterwards, he joins Norman Osborn's "Dark Avengers" as the new Wolverine. This is primarily to shame his father, and to lure out the Muramasa Blade, which he bonds to his claws. He even manages to kill The Punisher, leading to the "Franken-Castle" story arc when the hero is resurrected. However, his endless appearances during Dark Reign seem to have a negative impact, as the character both gets overdone, and loses one too many times.

Daken Dies & Returns:
-He apparently gets his own book for a while, as his Wikipedia bio goes into HUGE detail about some nonsense. He attempts to form a criminal empire, but his own sociopathy and addiction to "Heat" pills destroy his dreams and his health- his Healing Factor destroyed by the pills, he dies in front of his father. He turned up alive with no explanation, leading a new Brotherhood of Mutants, but Logan finally drowns his son, while dreaminga bout the life they could have had.

-Daken is resurrected by the Apocalypse Twins in Rick Remender's Uncanny Avengers, and appears to have reformed a bit, acting in defense of his father's legacy (Logan was dead at this time), even helping out a clone of X-23 (seriously?).
-Honestly, all in all, this character feels like he could have had potential, but the writers just DOGPILED on all the nonsense- Retcons (he's trained by Romulus! And also Cyber!), random characterization (he wants to humiliate his father! And build a criminal empire! But he's a screw-up!), TWO DEATHS IN A FEW YEARS, and endless appearances in other books... he just feels like he's broken already, and the character's barely more than ten years old.

Daken's Capabilities:
-Daken is pricey, but much less so than his father, being nearly as capable. He's a PL 10 version of Logan with some additional powers like his Pheromones (Emotion Control) and Concealment from Scent. His Claws are pretty much the same, but more metallic in their baseline form, cutting through early Iron Man armour. There's a vaguely-described "Mind-Trap", but rather than use a giant Limited Mental Blast, I just threw in an Immunity. He can also come seemingly out of left field when attacking people, which I figure is just REALLY good Stealth. He's a good fighter overall, able to kill The Punisher (he's what set off "Frankencastle"), beat Wolverine & Deadpool, and he's a better fighter than Cyber (who won because of his impervious nature). I figure it has all the typical makings of a classic PL 10 in his "First Year Push" as a character.
I don't dislike Daken, what I do dislike however is the inconsistency concerning his characterisation, in recent books (some released concurrently or at the most a month apart) he's been shown helping X-23 and Gabby and even joining one of the 'X' teams but he's also at the same time been shown trying to outright murder members of the X-Men and teaming up with Sabretooth and Deathstrike to kill his recently revived father (despite none of them seeming to have any issue with working alongside old man Logan)
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken!)

Post by Jabroniville »

The funniest thing about One More Day is that Swinging Bachelor Spider-Man not only comes off as older than his married version (you can be a young newlywed, but as an divorcee he just comes off as sad and old), but they've absolutely failed every single time they've tried to give Spidey a new girlfriend. Carlie Cooper was DESPISED by fans, and now she's probably gone into "Deb Whitman" territory. They never bothered with Felicia. They made Mockingbird a girlfriend for a while, but now she's fallen back into obscurity.

So all of that nonsense was basically for nothing. Obviously, I'm glad they weren't together with it was Doc Ock as Spidey (because ew), but when they have absolutely NOTHING to show for ten+ years of Peter & MJ not being together, all because Quesada (and presumably his replacements) hated the Spider-Marriage? It means the marriage was a GOOD IDEA.
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Batgirl III
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken!)

Post by Batgirl III »

I only read the first couple of Superior Spider-Man trades. I mean, I hated the concept of Doc Ock killing Peter Parker and taking over his body. But people who read it told me it was good and I figured it was worth looking into... It wasn't bad. It wasn't great either, but it was a lot bettert han I had expected. I did like the relationship between Ock-Parker and Anna Marconi, though. One of the few well written relationships I'd seen in Marvel Comics in years.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (Sabretooth! Cyber! Romulus! Daken!)

Post by Gamebook »

I followed and enjoyed the entire run of the Superior Spider-Man, where I don't normally read Spider-Man comics, finding Peter Parker to be an annoying twit. I neither knew nor cared about all the shenanigans with his recent stories. Any character who has as many comics published featuring him as he does is inevitably going to have a total mess of a continuity. Doc Ock Spidey was hilarious, his ludicrous arrogance contrasting with his fundamental incompetence.
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X-23

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
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Can't... look away... from those EYES...

X-23 (Laura Kinney, aka Wolverine II)
Created By:
Craig Kyle
First Appearance: X-Men: Evolution (2003- as character), NYX #3 (2004- in comics)
Group Affiliations: X-Students, Young X-Men, Weapon Plus Program, X-Force, The Facility, Avengers Academy
Status: Alive
Role: Distaff Counterpart (to Wolverine), Pint-Sized Assassin, Emotionless Distant Girl
PL 9 (162)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 7
FIGHTING 13 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Acrobatics 6 (+13)
Athletics 9 (+11)
Deception 4 (+3)
Expertise (Survival) 5 (+5)
Expertise (Assassin) 8 (+9)
Expertise (Waitress) 1 (+2)
Expertise (Prostitute For Sadomasochistic Clients) 1 (+2)
Intimidation 7 (+6)
Investigation 4 (+4)
Perception 10 (+10)
Stealth 5 (+12)

Advantages:
Agile Feint, All-Out Attack, Chokehold, Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll, Diehard, Equipment (X-Student Uniform- Communications), Evasion, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Claws), Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative 2, Languages (English, French, Japanese), Last Stand, Move-By Action, Power Attack, Precise Attack (Close/Concealment), Prone Fighting, Ranged Attack 2, Takedown 2, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Regenerative Healing Factor & Claws"
"Healing Factor"
Regeneration 8 (Feats: Regrow Limbs) [9]
Immunity 3 (Aging, Disease, Poison) [3]

"Animal Senses" Senses 9 (Acute, Extended & Accurate Scent, Extended Vision & Hearing, Low-Light Vision, Tracking 2- Scent) [9]

"Adamantium-Laced Claws"
Strength-Damage +3 (Feats: Improved Critical, Split) (Extras: Penetrating 5) [10]

"Foot Claws" Movement 1 (Wall-Crawling 1) [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +13 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Claws +13 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +15

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +14 (DC 24), Toughness +3 (+4 D.Roll), Fortitude +7, Will +6

Complications:
Responsibility (Past as a Living Weapon)- X-23 was an attempt to clone Wolverine- she was trained and turned into an assassin who could go into berserker rages, and has killed countless people, including her mother-figure.
Relationship (Hellion)- Laura found herself attracted to Hellion, but always wanted to keep him distant because she's dangerous. It also doesn't help that he's an ass.
Involuntary Transformation (Berserker Rage)- If Laura smells out her "Trigger Scent", she will go into an unstoppable rage, killing everything in sight. The best minds in the world have been unable to reverse this- it constantly hangs over her head that even a loved one would be slain in such an event (since her "mother" was).
Responsibility (Loner)- Because of the aforementioned "Trigger Scent" thing, Laura tries to push others away from her.
Relationship (Wolverine)- Laura at times seeks mentorly advice from her father-figure, but is also uncomfortable around him.
Relationship (Gambit)- Laura sees Remy as another parental figure, with less... issues as her relationship with Logan.
Relationship (Jubilee)- It's about as gay as you can possibly get without them actually making sex with each other. Seriously- it's like 0.7 on the Sam/Frodo Scale of Homoeroticism.
Addiction (Self-Mutilation)- Laura has a tendency to cut herself when bored, guilt-ridden (which is all the time) or nervous. The marks rarely stay long, but the blood ends up EVERYWHERE.

Total: Abilities: 58 / Skills: 60--30 / Advantages: 25 / Powers: 33 / Defenses: 16 (162)

Worst Idea, Done The Best:
-X-23 is one of those weird things- showing up in the X-Men: Evolution cartoon series (a couple seasons of an alternate-universe take with Storm & Wolverine teaching the rest of the major X-characters as teens in high school; it was better than it sounds, dealing with as much angst as *wink wink* nudges to continuity) as a Wolverine clone who took down most of the school with some Stun Discs or something. Though the show died young, the character proved popular enough for Marvel to immediately create her in the mainline continuity, pretty much like DC did with Harley Quinn, but like a YEAR later instead of fifteen, because Marvel Comics apparently knows how to make money and DC doesn't. Well, back then.

-The character is pretty much non-stop angst and rage (crushes, cutting herself, murdering dozens, hating everything, etc.), but here's the crazy thing- despite the creation of X-23 being ten pounds of bad idea in a five-pound bag, she not only a fascinating character, but her series was REALLY GOOD- I mean, I wasn't expecting it, and I pretty much discounted it on first sight, but seeing the really nifty art of Phil Noto in there (he has a really quirky, fun style, though suffers from SameFace more than most artists because of his distinctive style) drew me in, and I was left actually enjoying the book (the later issues- the first trade isn't so great). Sana Takeda's art on many of the issues is FANTASTIC as well- as are the colourists (Laura's eyes are HYPNOTIC).

-I should point out that X-23 has one of the most unnecessarily over-detailed Wikipedia bios in history. Absolutely staggering the amount of useless information they managed to pile in here- Editors simply added events from each new story as they happened, regardless of whether or not they were particularly important to the character. Compare her bio to that of Wolverine, who only has a handful of paragraphs for the first decade of his history.

Sad Origins, Driven to the Max:
-Laura's backstory is that she's a female clone of Wolverine, raised to be the perfect weapon. They do this by repeatedly torturing and abusing a little girl, training her to kill everything in sight, and developing a "Trigger Scent" that'll make her kill anything she sees. During the course of her training, she's afflicted with the scent, and kills the woman who gave birth to her- her mother's dying words are to name her "Laura" and to say that she loves her. Eventually, she is arrested and brought to the attention of the world's superheroes- Captain America wants her charged for the murders she's committed, but releases her under the fear that S.H.I.E.L.D. will use her as their own weapon.
-In a WEIRD subplot, she is taken in by a pimp named Zebra Daddy (REALLY?), and turned into a "prostitute", albeit one that just gives people their sadomasochistic desires (ie. cutting them). Laura becomes suicidal, cutting herself frequently, and is nearly mute, but still under the control of her pimp. Eventually, his hold breaks, and she runs off with some new friends, eventually killing Zebra Daddy and abandoning them. Eventually, she is made to join up with the X-Men- interactions are strained, but she eventually becomes a bit of a "daughter-figure" to Wolverine, and even Gambit becomes protective of her, acting more like a "mischievous, cool uncle", giving him a bit more rounding as a character.

Laura the Outcast:
-The funny thing is she's much like Dawnstar, in that she was a girl that guys couldn't touch/get with, because she was both antisocial (more like she didn't even know how to BE social in the first place- she's pretty well completely out of her element in any social interaction) and prone to hyper-violent rages. This of course makes her IRRESISTABLE to some men (much like many women, dudes can crave the impossible/out of reach), which is played with in the series, as poor Hellion "can't stop thinking about a girl who LITERALLY SCARES ME." Her inability to interact with others is played up several times, with an uncomfortable relationship with her "father" (Wolverine, technically her twin/brother, but the relationship is parental), Gambit (more of a guardian, this one with a sense of humor- he once expresses disappointment that she didn't murder Hellion in their break-up), Hellion (he keeps chasing her; she wants to be left alone), the Richards Family (she even babysits for Franklin & Valeria! There's a cute bunch of issues surrounding this, also made creepy when she freaking rips The Collector apart while he just laughs and says he'll come back to "collect" her some day), Jubilee (they go on a "live life to the fullest!" adventure with tons of femslash subtext), Spider-Man and more.

-Alas, the book's sales weren't so great, and so it was eventually cancelled. For someone who I was planning on hating, she turned out to be pretty neat- she's not a Mary Sue, she's not just there for fanservice (there's really barely ANY, and she's actually drawn accurate to her age most of the time, making her look more like a kid- I skew a tad older. Were I a younger teen reading this series, I think I should be in love with Laura Kinney), and she's not over-the-top powerful. It also does the impossible, and makes me NOT HATE JUBILEE. Even VAMPIRE JUBILEE. And I HATE JUBILEE. Just goes to show ya- there are no bad ideas, just bad writers.

Later Laura:
-X-23 gets modified a bit as time goes on. She kind of popped up in Avengers Academy in its later issues (she was "free" for use for an arc or two), then was a major threat in Avengers Arena, where the "Trigger Scent" made her a bit nuts. However, I was a bit taken aback when she suddenly showed up in another X-Book, acting snarky and happy-go-lucky, suddenly possessing Wolverine's dark sense of humor. It was REALLY WEIRD, but apparently came in another book that I happened to miss. In any case, she was suddenly on the "Original X-Men" team featuring the younger versions of Cyclops, Iceman, The Beast, Jean Grey & Angel, and she hooked up with the latter. The book, despite being a completely horrible idea, was actually well-drawn and well-written (yes, this book made me enjoy BENDIS's writing), so I didn't mind it, but having "Snarky Laura" still just felt so OFF. Like when Starlord suddenly showed up with his movie personality instead of his "Grizzled veteran" outlook.

Laura's Powers:
-X-23 fights like a different sort of Wolverine- still a Scrapper, but more finesse & speed instead of raw courage, determination and power. Wolverine would take in in a drawn-out fight, but she's good enough to give him a good fight, and even win once or twice- though PL 9, her high level or Regeneration means that she can come back from almost anything and wear people down via attrition. She has the same Regenerative powers, is stronger than she looks, but lacks the Adamantium Skeleton (and thus the Protection and most of the Complications that come with it). She's much more powerful than the other "New X-Men" (she left the team eventually, joining X-Force, then quit the X-stuff entirely to join Avengers Academy... which is doing another thing now), and costs a good bit more, since she's quite a skilled tracker, has many abilities, in addition to being a great fighter.

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WOLVERINE II (Laura Kinney, aka X-23)
Created By:
Craig Kyle
First Appearance: X-Men: Evolution (2003- as character), NYX #3 (2004- in comics)
Group Affiliations: X-Students, Young X-Men, Weapon Plus Program, X-Force, The Facility, Avengers Academy
Status: Alive
Role: Distaff Counterpart (to Wolverine), Pint-Sized Assassin, Emotionless Distant Girl
PL 10 (174)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 7
FIGHTING 15 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 6 (+13)
Athletics 9 (+11)
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Survival) 5 (+5)
Expertise (Assassin) 8 (+9)
Expertise (Waitress) 1 (+2)
Expertise (Prostitute For Sadomasochistic Clients) 1 (+2)
Intimidation 7 (+9)
Investigation 4 (+4)
Perception 10 (+10)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Stealth 5 (+12)

Advantages:
Agile Feint, All-Out Attack, Chokehold, Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll, Diehard, Equipment (X-Student Uniform- Communications), Evasion, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Claws), Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative 2, Languages (English, French, Japanese), Last Stand, Move-By Action, Power Attack, Precise Attack (Close/Concealment), Prone Fighting, Ranged Attack 2, Takedown 2, Uncanny Dodge

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Regenerative Healing Factor & Claws"
"Healing Factor"
Regeneration 8 (Feats: Regrow Limbs) [9]
Immunity 3 (Aging, Disease, Poison) [3]

"Animal Senses" Senses 9 (Acute, Extended & Accurate Scent, Extended Vision & Hearing, Low-Light Vision, Tracking 2- Scent) [9]

"Adamantium-Laced Claws"
Strength-Damage +3 (Feats: Improved Critical, Split) (Extras: Penetrating 5) [10]

"Foot Claws" Movement 1 (Wall-Crawling 1) [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +15 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Claws +15 (+5 Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +15

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +14 (DC 24), Toughness +3 (+4 D.Roll), Fortitude +7, Will +6

Complications:
Responsibility (Past as a Living Weapon)- X-23 was an attempt to clone Wolverine- she was trained and turned into an assassin who could go into berserker rages, and has killed countless people, including her mother-figure.
Relationship (Hellion)- Laura found herself attracted to Hellion, but always wanted to keep him distant because she's dangerous. It also doesn't help that he's an ass.
Involuntary Transformation (Berserker Rage)- If Laura smells out her "Trigger Scent", she will go into an unstoppable rage, killing everything in sight. The best minds in the world have been unable to reverse this- it constantly hangs over her head that even a loved one would be slain in such an event (since her "mother" was).
Responsibility (Loner)- Because of the aforementioned "Trigger Scent" thing, Laura tries to push others away from her.
Relationship (Wolverine)- Laura at times seeks mentorly advice from her father-figure, but is also uncomfortable around him.
Relationship (Gambit)- Laura sees Remy as another parental figure, with less... issues as her relationship with Logan.
Relationship (Jubilee)- It's about as gay as you can possibly get without them actually making sex with each other. Seriously- it's like 0.7 on the Sam/Frodo Scale of Homoeroticism.
Addiction (Self-Mutilation)- Laura has a tendency to cut herself when bored, guilt-ridden (which is all the time) or nervous. The marks rarely stay long, but the blood ends up EVERYWHERE.

Total: Abilities: 68 / Skills: 62--31 / Advantages: 25 / Powers: 33 / Defenses: 16 (174)

Sheverine:
-In the era of "Replace all our mainstream heroes with minority and female versions", Laura was the natural choice to replace Logan when he died for a while. Hell, she's one of the characters who would have been a fine choice REGARDLESS, already being an established Legacy Character with her own credibility. It was even generally understood that she was upholding the legacy of who came before her and stuff. That said... she pretty much became boring on the X-Men book I was reading. Just being snarky isn't an entire character, and that's all she felt like here- as if her primary Character Arc had ended, and now she was "Just Another X-Person". This change lasted for a couple of years, and will end in mid-2018 when the original Wolverine returns.

-I figure the "Sheverine" Laura for a bit better. She was wavering between PL 9 and PL 10 in the first place, and I think this pushes her over the edge. But really, the MAJOR change to her is... she gains CHARISMA. This Laura actually knows how to talk to people, and can snark and even negotiate without coming off like she's about to slice her wrists and then your throat. This actually adds up to a 12-point increase in her final cost.

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Also, best Laura reaction to anything.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Gorgon

Post by Jabroniville »

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THE GORGON (Tomi Shishido)
Created By:
Mark Millar & John Romita, Jr.
First Appearance: Wolverine #20 (2004)
Role: Evil Cult Leader
Group Affiliations: HYDRA, The Hand, Dawn of the White Light, H.A.M.M.E.R., The Dark Avengers
PL 14 (253)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 12/14 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 7 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 6 (+11)
Athletics 6 (+12)
Deception 5 (+8)
Expertise (Art) 2 (+9)
Expertise (Criminal) 5 (+12)
Expertise (Science) 2 (+9)
Insight 2 (+5)
Intimidation 4 (+7)
Perception 2 (+5)
Stealth 2 (+7)
Technology 2 (+9)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Benefit 4 (Wealth/Position), Chokehold, Equipment 4 (Sword, Personal Teleportation Device), Improved Critical (Sword), Improved Smash, Ranged Attack 3, Startle, Takedown

Powers:
"Gorgon's Gaze" Affliction 14 (Fort; Fatigued & Impaired/Defenseless & Disabled/Transformed to Stone & Unaware) (Extras: Continuous +3, Extra Condition, Perception Range +2) (Flaws: Sight-Dependent) [84]
"Healing Factor" Regeneration 8 (Feats: Regrow Limbs) [9]
"Blind-Fighting" Senses 3 (Accurate Psychic Sense) [3]

"Combat Telepathy"
Mind-Reading 5 [10]
Enhanced Fighting 2 [4]

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Combat Telepathy +14 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Katana +12 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Combat Telepathy Katana +14 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Gorgon's Gaze -- (+14 Perception-Ranged Affliction, DC 24)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (+14 Combat Telepathy, DC 22-24), Toughness +6, Fortitude +8, Will +7

Complications:
Drawbacks (Permanent Power)- The Gorgon cannot turn off his "Gorgon's Gaze" power, and must always wear dark sunglasses or else freeze everyone around him in stone. He also must be careful to avoid looking in a mirror, as his own gaze works on him.
Responsibility (Arrogant)- Tomi is conceited due to his own innate intelligence- he even has trouble taking REED RICHARDS seriously as an intellect.

Total: Abilities: 94 / Skills: 38--19 / Advantages: 17 / Powers: 110 / Defenses: 13 (253)

-The Gorgon is/was a Wolverine foe created in 2004 as a new Elite Nemesis for Logan, who often ran out of guys that weren't either Sabretooth or hyper-dated to the '90s. He's a mutant who can turn people to stone, but is also a ruthless terrorist leader with ties to both HYDRA AND The Hand, having impressed them all with his ruthlessness. He brainwashed Logan into going on a murderous rampage (temporarily killing Northstar), but Logan managed to reflect Gorgon's own gaze back at him using his Claws, then shattered his stone body. He was quickly resurrected (well, he's related to The Hand, what'd you expect?) and killed Phobos- the son of Ares, and stole the fabled sword "Grasscutter".

-He went on to be... well, pretty much just some background guy, dealing with the various nefarious organizations in the Marvel Universe, and joining Norman Osborn's second Dark Avengers as "Dark Wolverine". His group was beaten when Skaar revealed himself to be a double agent, and summoned The Avengers for a smackdown. He later appears as a backgrounder in Secret Empire, working under Captain America's HYDRA- he temporarily disables Hercules, turning him to stone, but that's it.

-I personally just find it kinda weird they made a guy called "The Gorgon" when the semi-prominent Inhumans have a "Gorgon" on the team as well. It got weirder when the Inhumans got their huge "Screw the X-Men!" push.

-The Gorgon's weird grab-bag of powers makes him look like the kind of guy created in the margins of a 13-year-old boy's school notes- he swipes Mister X's Combat Telepathy, plus adds in a Medusa Stare, super-fighting skills and Blind-Senses. Oh yeah, and he's apparently got Mutant Smartness, even though he doesn't actually build anything or do anything scientific- he's just a Child Prodigy. He's PL 10-11 in close combat, but has a nasty PL 14 Affliction at Perception Range, making him positively LETHAL. However, he both has to meet eyes with the enemy to use it, AND he can potentially be hit by it himself, so he doesn't often use it (also, it would end every fight instantly, which is sort of why YOU DON'T GIVE POWERS LIKE THIS TO RECURRING VILLAINS).
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Davies
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Re: Gorgon

Post by Davies »

Jabroniville wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:30 am -The Gorgon is/was a Wolverine foe created in 2004 as a new Elite Nemesis for Logan, who often ran out of guys that weren't either Sabretooth or hyper-dated to the '90s. He's a mutant who can turn people to stone, but is also a ruthless terrorist leader with ties to both HYDRA AND The Hand, having impressed them all with his ruthlessness.
Which, you know, is not easy at all to do. Mm-mm. Nope. People might think that all it takes is a sub-literate moron saying that you've done it, but it really is harder than that. <nods soberly>

EDIT: In case of any confusion, I'm talking about Millar here.
"I'm sorry. I love you. I'm not sorry I love you."
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Chimera (Wolverine Foe)

Post by Jabroniville »

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CHIMERA III (Real Name Unknown)
Created By:
Larry Hama & Andy Kubert
First Appearance: Wolverine #97 (Jan. 1996)
Role: Jobber Villain
Group Affiliations: The Hellions II, The Sisterhood of Mutants
PL 10 (129)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+6)
Athletics 4 (+6)
Deception 3 (+5)
Expertise (Streetwise) 4 (+5)
Insight 1 (+2)
Intimidation 2 (+4)
Perception 4 (+5)
Stealth 2 (+6)
Technology 4 (+5)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Equipment 3 (Alien Weapons), Improved Critical (Dragons), Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Dragon Flares"
"Dragon-Shaped Flares"
"Dragon Grab" Snare 10 (30) -- [32]
  • AE: Blast 10 (Feats: Split, Dimensional) (22)
  • AE: Move Object 8 (16)
Senses 2 (Detect Astral Projections, Radius Sight) [2]
"Deflect With Dragons" Advantages: Defensive Roll 2 [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Dragon Flares +10 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Snare +10 (+10 Affliction, DC 20)
Initiative +7

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +3 (+5 Dragons), Fortitude +5, Will +4

Complications:
None Known- Chimera fought drug-runners once, but usually ends up fighting the X-Men.

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 11 / Powers: 36 / Defenses: 15 (129)

-Chimera was created as a sexy Wolverine threat, teaming up with the Dark Riders to capture Wolverine on behalf of Genesis, and re-bond Adamantium to his skeleton. on Wolverine for killing most of their number. She later allied with Dirtnap to get revenge on Logan for the deaths of most of the Riders in that battle. Larry Hama, who created her, threw her onto his Generation X run, because that's something comic book creators tend to do with their little-known creations, I've noticed- they re-use them on various books they work on. She teamed up with Emplate to fight the Gen-X kids, but later dropped that association and joined the Red Queen's (Madelyne Pryor) Sisterhood of Mutants. This made her a perfectly-acceptable Background Mook, helping out a team of other X-Villainesses against the main squad for a while. This actually gave her a whole new lease on life, as she appeared in quite a few issues, though wasn't overly important to the plot aside from being a cool-looking character with cool-looking attacks.

-She later reappears with a band of brainwashed Marauders sent to attack the X-Men, then joins the team properly later on. Her team chases Nightcrawler down, trying to make him a specimen for Mister Sinister.

-Chimera's a sorta-Blaster character, using them to see behind her, detect Astral Projections, and Blast away at people (even those on the Astral Plane- that's what that Dimensional thing is for). She didn't seem too overly powerful, but she can hold her own with a group of X-Men now, so she's apparently had an upgrade from her "can barely beat Generation X" days.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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