Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (A Goofy Movie! Max! Pete! Powerline! DuckTales!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Woodclaw wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:25 pm
While Rosa's interpretation of Donald and Scrooge is but one of many, you should really check "A Letter from Home", which pretty much explore a possible interpretation of their relationship.
Reading a summation, it's rather interesting. Though given how dramatically the McDuck clan needed money in The Life and Times, it seems rather... callous of Fergus to hide this piece of material wealth for so long. I mean, yeah, the whole "Scrooge would only appreciate wealth made through hard work" is accurate to the characters. Maybe it makes more sense in context of the story :).
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Re: Jab's Builds! (DuckTales! Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo!)

Post by HalloweenJack »

Ares wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:40 pm Tony Jay's Judge Frollo was simply amazing as a Disney villain, very different from the hammy "evil for evil's sake" villains, this time being something we've all encountered: the self-righteous hypocrite that sees fault in everyone but themselves. And Jay's voice was simply epic, with the only downside being that he was almost always cast as villains save for Mighty Max's Virgil. One of my favorite bits was him voicing this Lovecraftian Horror in the Legacy of Kain games, leading to instances where it sounds like Duke from G.I.Joe is having a discussion with Mega-Byte.
I think my favorite role of his in terms of voice work was Galactus

First time I heard him I was like "YES! THAT'S what Galactus sounds like"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amUJOeuxpXE THIS.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (A Goofy Movie! Max! Pete! Powerline! DuckTales!)

Post by Woodclaw »

Jabroniville wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:23 pm
Woodclaw wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:25 pm
While Rosa's interpretation of Donald and Scrooge is but one of many, you should really check "A Letter from Home", which pretty much explore a possible interpretation of their relationship.
Reading a summation, it's rather interesting. Though given how dramatically the McDuck clan needed money in The Life and Times, it seems rather... callous of Fergus to hide this piece of material wealth for so long. I mean, yeah, the whole "Scrooge would only appreciate wealth made through hard work" is accurate to the characters. Maybe it makes more sense in context of the story :).
Well there were a number of factors:
  • Scrooge had already exstinguished the mortgage on Castle McDuck.
  • Scrooge was already an accomplished adventurer and was raoming the globe looking for treasure.
  • Fergus was a fresh widower and he himself was already on his last leg.
  • Fergus figured out some of the clues, but was never able to even see the treasure for himself.
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

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Jabroniville
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Re: Jab's Builds! (DuckTales! Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Lindsay Ellis does a great (37 minute!) feature on the tonal issues of Hercules. Among her complains are

* The tone jumps around dramatically, even during important scenes. The battle against the Titans is full of comedy, even though Megara has just died.

* The movie meshes and directly references Superman and Rocky, two completely different movies with different intentions, making a jumble of them both.

* Hercules decides to become A HERO... but never actually gets into the "saving people" stuff as anything but a means to and end (getting into Olympus). And the plot barely deals with that fact (though Megara calls him out on it once) until the very end. He just wants to be a hero because Zeus TOLD HIM to do it- not because of some internal motivating factor.

* It makes a big deal out of Hercules becoming a "Sports Star" analogue, complete with merchandise and riches... but doesn't go into any of that as anything but a joke as to "HEY IT'S LIKE MODERN TIMES, YO!". At no point does anyone really point out how empty and meaningless all of that is, nor was it ever his GOAL. He didn't start out equating wealthy & fame with personal worth- this just kind of happened to him on his quest to enter Olympus.

* Hercules is not flawed, nor arrogant, so his "big lesson" is never really there.

* The whole "Hades doesn't know that Hercules is still alive" thing makes no sense on several levels- not only is he clueless, but he's THE GOD OF THE DEAD, and talks to The Fates who actually cut the threads of life.

* The big "Chosen One" narrative is nearly always a weak creative choice, and it being so robs Hercules of any real impact due to his own choices or actions- he is "The Chosen One", and so Hades does all of the acting and attacking. Herc never even realizes the prophecy in a big way, really.

* Herc's "Want vs Need" character arc (an important part of Disney movies) features two things that have little to do with each other- his Want is to "Find where I belong", but his NEED is "be self-sacrificing". Compare this to Simba (he wants to RUN from his past, but he needs to LEARN from it), The Beast (he wants to be human again, but he needs to let that go for another's sake), Aladdin (he wants to be something he isn't, but needs to learn that he can't) or Tarzan (he wants to belong somewhere, but he needs to belong right where he is). This leaves his Character Arc feeling very bland and weak compared to most major Disney Characters.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (DuckTales! Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo!)

Post by M4C8 »

I don't know if I've actually see the entire Hercules movie, I remember bits of it though, knowing me I probably passed on watching it out of some stupid form of loyalty to Marvel's Hercules who I was already a huge fan of as a teen. I've since matured (slightly) and enjoyed the semi-recent Hercules movie starring the Rock.

I'd say Hercules becoming a hero to get into Olympus isn't necessarily a slight on his personality, the idea that 'if you do good you'll be rewarded in the afterlife' is the basis for most major religions. Personally I've always found the idea weird, surely if you're only doing good for the eventual reward and not because you just are a good person means you're ultimately unworthy of that reward.
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'
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Hercules

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

HERCULES
Played by:
Tate Donovan (speaking), Roger Bart (singing)
Role: The Hero, Clumsy Good Guy
PL 12 (135)
STRENGTH
14 STAMINA 11 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 1 (+13)
Expertise (Rescuing Damsels) 5 (+5)
Expertise (Singing) 6 (+9)
Perception 2 (+2)
Ranged Combat (Thrown Objects) 2 (+10)

Advantages:
Beginner's Luck, Diehard, Equipment (Sword), Fast Grab, Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Defense, Improved Grab, Improvised Weapon, Last Stand, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 8, Ultimate Strength Check

Powers:
"God-Like Strength"
Speed 2 (8 mph) [2]
Leaping 3 (60 feet) [3]
Power-Lifting 2 (1,600 tons) (Flaws: Uncontrolled) [1]
Protection 2 [2]

Equipment:
"Sword" Strength-Damage +0 (Feats: Improved Critical) (Note: +2 for Normal Strength People; It Just Changes Herc's Damage Descriptor)

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +13, Fortitude +11, Will +8

Complications:
Motivation (One With The Crowd)- Herc grew up an outcast due to his freakish strength, and wants to go to Olympus to be with others like himself.
Accident (Freakish Strength)- Hercules is so strong that he can accidentally cause great damage. Mixed with a teenager's clumsiness, it's incredibly troublesome.
Responsibility (Naiive)- Herc tends to believe the best in people, especially a pretty girl. He's easily fooled, and easily led.
Relationship (Megara)- Wouldn't ya know the first sexy lady he comes across in his journey is the one he falls for, even if she is a bit sarcastic and unwilling to fall in love.

Total: Abilities: 84 / Skills: 16--8 / Advantages: 21 / Powers: 8 / Defenses: 14 (135)

-Hercules himself is a bit of a rarity, being a naiive and innocent Disney MALE. As the hero of the film, he comes across a bit bland, but he's alright- he's your standard Outsider Teenager (being a bit Peter Parker but with Class 100 strength) who has trouble interacting with others, falls for a no-good (or some-good) girl and ends up trying to become a hero to join Olympus and make good. He's not the most... FASCINATING of characters (as heroic motivations go, "I want to belong with the Gods" is REALLY weak and comes off as rather selfish- he fights evil not out of duty or care, but to get to hang out with his dad), and the key problem is that he's utterly shown up by his supporting cast on every level. Tate Donovan is COMPETENT but utterly falters before James Woods & Susan Egan here. Herc has a much weaker emotional range (though he does a good mournful cry when Meg bites it), less of a concrete motivation compared to everybody else, and isn't even FUNNY. Like he doesn't even crack a JOKE- compared to a cast full of snarky people, it makes him seem bland.

-And man, that whole "OMG he was CLUMSY as a child!" thing is shown literally only once, and is the weakest symapthy-grab EVER- we're supposed to feel sorry for him because his AMAZING SUPER-POWERS made him an awkward kid? Well boo-f***in'-hoo, kid- wish I could do that! I think half the X-Men have more legitimate grievances about their powers than that. That, the whole "Hero as Athlete Analogue" thing, and his whole weird reasoning for being a hero really add up to make for a very uncertain, questionable main hero, which I think is why he's been so utterly forgotten by audiences and Disney over the years. As Lindsay Ellis points out in her video-essay, Megara's whole Character Arc is much stronger- her stakes are higher, her motivation more clear, and her character arc more defined (she doesn't want to fall in love again, and is bound by duty to Hades... but is in love with Hercules, and must betray Hades in order to save Herc).

-Hercules is CERTAINLY the most powerful Disney Hero by a ways- his exact Strength Level is a little tough to determine. He effectively has "The Strength of Plot", being a guy who can lift whatever he needs to lift with a bit of strain, which could be 25 tons or 5,000- it's hard to say. I mean, one day he's struggling to heft a boulder, and the next he's thrown four giants into space. But suffice to say, he would fit right in on The Avengers or the Justice League. Note that his Sword isn't really an elite device- his own fists probably do MUCH more damage. He just uses it to cut stuff (or... turn it into a boomerang to cut a bunch of things up- let's call that a Power Stunt) that his fists would just bluntly damage. Once he becomes a God, he's Immune to Aging, Poison & Disease, and probably gains Immortality since even the River of Souls in Hades' realm can't drain his life. He's a bit light on the mental stuff, but proves his intelligence at least once- taking on a Cyclops with Mortal-level stats (STR 4, STA 4, most likely, since he's still pretty buff).

About the Performer: One of those "Vague '90s Guys That Nobody Remembers", Tate Donovan has been in a lot of stuff, some of it nominated for awards and junk! He was a recurring character on tons of TV shows, including Friends (as Joshua, a temporary love interest of Rachel, played by his real-life girlfriend at the time, Jennifer Aniston), Damages and The O.C., and has largely featured in a serviceable, but not really fame-worthy, career.

-Roger Bart, the singing voice of Herc, actually has a really long, varied career as well, largely from stage performing- he was in the original cast of The Producers, debuted the role of Dr. Frederick Frankenstein in Young Frankenstein's musical, and won a Tony for playing Snoopy in You're a Good Man, Charlie Brown (Kristin Chenoweth was discovered in the same play, also winning a Tony as Lucy). He's also done a lot of side roles in movies & TV.
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Re: Jab's Builds! (DuckTales! Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo!)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:37 pm Lindsay Ellis does a great (37 minute!) feature on the tonal issues of Hercules. Among her complains are

* The tone jumps around dramatically, even during important scenes. The battle against the Titans is full of comedy, even though Megara has just died.
Megara doesn't die until after the battle with the Titans. Herc's battle with the Titans is a triumph return to form and a thwarting of Hades plan to take over Olympus, so a little comedy mixed in with action is warranted. It's after the Titans are defeated and Hades alludes to Meg's fate that things become more serious.
* The movie meshes and directly references Superman and Rocky, two completely different movies with different intentions, making a jumble of them both.
Not really. Hercules references both Superman and Rocky because of the latter two's links to Hercules. Superman is essentially a modern version of the Hercules archetype, while the Greeks were one of the first cultures to really celebrate athleticism to the level of sports heroes like Rocky. Superman is about a man figuring out who he is and what he wants to do with his powers. Rocky is about someone who wants to prove to himself that he isn't a loser. Hercules is about a kid trying to figure out where his place in the world is. The Superman elements exist to set up the initial conflict of Herc not really fitting in with normal society, while the Rocky references exist to show that merely being popular and a good athlete is not enough to really be a hero.

In a way, Disney is actually subtly telling people that being popular is not in and of itself heroic, which is a message worth spreading in the modern world. Too many sports stars, actors, and celebrities are held up as heroes when they aren't actually, well, heroic. Hercules gets this told him right to his face and it makes him have to re-evaluate what he's doing.

So I don't really think the film jumbles up anything, since the Superman and Rocky references exist for specific purposes, but then the rest of the film is about Herc trying to figure out where he belongs in the world.
* Hercules decides to become A HERO... but never actually gets into the "saving people" stuff as anything but a means to and end (getting into Olympus). And the plot barely deals with that fact (though Megara calls him out on it once) until the very end. He just wants to be a hero because Zeus TOLD HIM to do it- not because of some internal motivating factor.
Yes and no. Herc as a kid is shown to be eager to help others, to do the right thing, but he's a teenager. Which means he's awkward and clumsy and winds up causing a lot of damage accidentally. It's to show that being the strongest guy around does not mean you're going to be automatically loved by everyone. It gets to the point where Herc decides he just wants to find a place where he can fit in and be accepted. The film makes it clear early on that he wants to be helpful, but he's been told all of his life that he's a freak and a menace, so he wants to just find some place where he can be accepted.

His decision to become a hero is motivated by his desire to get into Olympus and be accepted by them, and the film makes it clear that while Hercules is doing good, he's not really a hero because he's not really motivated by a desire to help people. Zeus flat out tells him at the half way point that there's a difference between being popular and being a hero.

But at the same time, the film makes it clear that Herc does have a big heart and does care about people. When Hades wants to remove his strength, Herc is hesitant to do so, not because he'll be weak, but because he knows people will get hurt. He wants to protect them. And it takes Hades hitting him in his weak point to get him to agree. And even with his powers gone, he goes out to fight that Cyclops to save people. And in the end he's willing to give up his life to save others, which does in fact mark him as a hero.

So if anything, I think this actually makes Herc very sympathetic and somewhat complex. He's got a bit of that aw-shucks farm boy and good nature that Clark Kent has, while having the desire for acceptance that Peter Parker has. And like Peter, he becomes a hero out of a motivation to get that acceptance. And when Meg's betrayal is revealed, it basically crushes him and breaks him down back to his core. And at his core, he's someone who wants to help others, so powers or not, he goes in to save them, albeit in a very self-destructive manner because he's very bitter.
* It makes a big deal out of Hercules becoming a "Sports Star" analogue, complete with merchandise and riches... but doesn't go into any of that as anything but a joke as to "HEY IT'S LIKE MODERN TIMES, YO!". At no point does anyone really point out how empty and meaningless all of that is, nor was it ever his GOAL. He didn't start out equating wealthy & fame with personal worth- this just kind of happened to him on his quest to enter Olympus.
One of the points of Herc's chat with Zeus is for Herc to understand that simply being wealthy, popular and having an action figure doesn't make him a hero. Zeus spells this out for Herc when the latter makes it clear that he's missed the point of being a hero. When Herc is talking to his dad about his past victories, Zeus is clearly proud of the good things his son is doing, but he's clearly surprised when Herc proclaims that today is the day he becomes a god. Herc then lists off all of his accomplishments, his wealth, his popularity, his merchandise, as if those things had made him a hero, and Zeus has to set him straight on his misconception. He also realizes that he can't just tell Herc what to do to be a true hero, or Herc'll never figure it out on his own.

In essence, Herc had been told to go out and be a hero. To him, this was to become the best monster slayer and most popular person in Greece, rather than really be concerned with helping people. It's a clear message about how while the person who is good at sports is someone to be admired, they aren't a hero in the same way someone is who runs into a burning building to save someone from a fire.
* Hercules is not flawed, nor arrogant, so his "big lesson" is never really there.
Herc IS flawed, just not in the sense of being arrogant and needing to learn humility. He's someone who wanted to be a hero for somewhat selfish reasons and equated fame with heroism. He was someone who basically got blinded by stardom and so fixed on his goal that he was less concerned with actually helping people than he was about getting to his end goal as quick as possible. Herc was basically treating being a hero like a video game or MMO: accomplish enough Quests and he gets the reward he wants, which is Olympus.

He also fails to realize that in the course of becoming the most popular hero in Greece, HE IS NO LONGER PERSECUTED. He is so fixed on his end goal that he's pretty much solved his problem. He's like a sports or acting celebrity who has gotten to far into the lifestyle. Yet at the same time, he clearly thinks highly of people, as he denies to Meg that normal people are inherently selfish.

He's clearly a good kid with a big heart trying to find his place in the world, but who gets blinded by fame and too focused on his goals to realize he could easily connect with folks now that he was popular and had full control over his strength. He's exactly like every young sports star and celebrity that just wants to use their talent to the best of their ability who gets swallowed up by the lifestyle.
* The whole "Hades doesn't know that Hercules is still alive" thing makes no sense on several levels- not only is he clueless, but he's THE GOD OF THE DEAD, and talks to The Fates who actually cut the threads of life.


The film makes it clear that Hades doesn't really speak with the spirits of the dead, viewing them with contempt. He only treats Meg with any significance because he knew her personally and was using her for his plans, and he knew how he could use her in case Hercules ever came calling.

He also treats his meeting with the Fates as a big deal, and that they are not people he regularly hangs out with. He's so busy focused on his plan of assembling monsters for the uprising against Olympus that he trusts the plans to murder Hercules to a pair of incompetent demons.

Hades not knowing of Herc's death in the film makes perfect sense.
* The big "Chosen One" narrative is nearly always a weak creative choice, and it being so robs Hercules of any real impact due to his own choices or actions- he is "The Chosen One", and so Hades does all of the acting and attacking. Herc never even realizes the prophecy in a big way, really.


In classic Greek Literature, trying to thwart a prophecy always lead to the person doing the thwarting to causing the prophecy to come true. Hades does exactly that here. Had he not taken Hercules from his comfortable life on Olympus, Herc might have grown up to be a strong but otherwise content god who never got into fights and would have been overwhelmed with the rest of the Olympians when Hades attacked. In fact, the army Hades would have had would have been much, much larger, because he was actively trying to bolster his forces with other monsters in addition to the Titans, only to burn through said monsters sending them in small numbers at Hercules.

By trying to murder Hercules, Hades sends Herc to Earth, where he becomes the greatest warrior and monster slayer the world has ever seen, and not only depletes Hades army, but is able to take out most of the Titans on his own through good tactics and using their own abilities against them. His presence completely turns the tide of the battle and sees the Titans destroyed once and for all, completely thwarting Hades plan.

So yeah, from a classic myth perspective, the "tried to circumvent a prophecy only to cause it to pass" fits perfectly with the film, and it helps that Herc never knows of said prophecy, because he has his own character arc that deals with completely different themes. The prophecy exists largely as a motivation for Hades to do what he does, and to get the karmic kick in the rear he deserves.
* Herc's "Want vs Need" character arc (an important part of Disney movies) features two things that have little to do with each other- his Want is to "Find where I belong", but his NEED is "be self-sacrificing". Compare this to Simba (he wants to RUN from his past, but he needs to LEARN from it), The Beast (he wants to be human again, but he needs to let that go for another's sake), Aladdin (he wants to be something he isn't, but needs to learn that he can't) or Tarzan (he wants to belong somewhere, but he needs to belong right where he is). This leaves his Character Arc feeling very bland and weak compared to most major Disney Characters.
I'd say Hercs "Wants vs Needs" is actually more "He wants to do what he needs to do to fit in" but "He needs to be true to himself". He spends most of the movie trying to turn himself into the most popular hero in Greece, because he believes that will get him into Olympus where he'll finally be with people who will accept him. But when he's lost everything, when his mentor is gone, his strength is gone, his love interest has betrayed him, when he's brought down to zero . . . he goes and saves people anyway. And when given the option, he would rather trade his life to save someone who he feels didn't deserve to die. When he's trying to be THE HERO, Meg treats him with contempt. When he's being himself, she falls for him completely. When he's trying to be THE HERO, he comes off as insincere. When he's being himself, he connects with people and earns their admiration.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab's Builds! (Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo! Hercules!)

Post by Ares »

As for the scene when Herc was a kid and gets ostracized for being freakishly strong, that's actually very true to life.

Paul "The Big Show" Wight talked about how he got picked on due to his size growing up, because that's the thing: It doesn't matter how you're different, teenagers will frequently ostracize people who deviate too much from "the norm". Teenagers are so awkward due to hormones and wanting to not be different that they will immediately pick on the least normal person in the bunch so that they themselves will fit in and not be seen as different. You'd think it'd be great for a kid to be a super-genius and be able to get all of the questions right, that they'd be someone everyone would want to be friends with, but that kid is going to get the shit kicked out of him for being different.

Likewise, teenagers already get into trouble for breaking stuff because they're going through growth spurts, being incredibly awkward, and are generally uncoordinated. Now add to that someone who can bench press a building and it's no wonder people are afraid of him. And as the only guy with legit superpowers in the world, if he ever did snap at them and get angry, there's nothing they could do to stop him.

So yeah, while it was overdone, I could easily buy Herc being treated as an outcast.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Pegasus

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

PEGASUS
Played by:
Frank Welker
Role: Awesome Mounted Beast, Animal Sidekick
PL 8 (80)
Normal Version:
PL 5-6
STRENGTH 6 STAMINA 6 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -3 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE -2

Skills:
Athletics 2 (+8)
Expertise (Survival) 2 (+5)
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 6 (+5 Size)
Perception 5 (+8)
Stealth 2 (+1 Size)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Attractive (To Women), Diehard, Follow-Up Strike, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Hooves), Improved Initiative, Power Attack

Powers:
"Animal Senses" Senses 3 (Acute Scent, Low-Light Vision, Radius Sight) [3]
"Animal Physiology" Speed 3 [3]
"Natural Weapons- Hooves" Strength-Damage +1 (Feats: Reach) [2]

"Natural Size" Growth 3 (Str & Sta +3, +3 Mass, +1 Intimidation, -1 Dodge/Parry, -3 Stealth) -- (10 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [7]
Protection 2 [2]

"Wings" Flight 6 (120 mph) (Flaws: Winged) [6]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Hooves +8 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +6

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +8, Fortitude +10, Will +6

Complications:
Disabled (Animal)- Pegasi cannot speak to humans, nor use their hooves to easily manipulate objects.

Total: Abilities: 26 / Skills: 20--10 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 23 / Defenses: 13 (80)

-Pegasus is the exact creature of mythology, turned into Hercules' Battle Steed instead of Bellerophon's because... well, they wanted a Pegasus, that's why. GOTTA SELL THOSE TOYS, YO!! He acts more like a dog than a horse, flutters like a Hummingbird, and is a sucker for a fine piece of Pegasus Pony (complete with Cutie Mark...) tail. He actually shares a lot of similarities with Maximus from Tangled, now that I think about it.
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Philoctetes

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

PHILOCTETES
Played by:
Danny DeVito
Role: The Mentor, Dirty Old Man
PL 4 (65)
STRENGTH
0 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 4 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+4)
Deception 4 (+4)
Expertise (Trainer) 12 (+13)
Expertise (Manager) 4 (+5)
Insight 5 (+7)
Perception 3 (+5)
Technology 6 (+7)

Advantages:
Equipment 2 (Training Gear)

Powers:
"Small Size" Shrinking 4 (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [17]
(-1 Strength & Speed, +2 Defenses, +4 Stealth, -2 Intimidation)

Equipment:
"Sword" Strength-Damage +0 (Feats: Improved Critical) (Note: +2 for Normal Strength People; It Just Changes Herc's Damage Descriptor)

Offense:
Unarmed +4 (+0 Damage, DC 15)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +4 (DC 14), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +2, Fortitude +2, Will +5

Complications:
Motivation ("That's PHIL'S boy!")- Phil's greatest desire is to train the world's greatest hero, and gain recognition for all time.
Obsession (The Ladies)- Any time is a good time for Phil to hit on a lady. He IS a satyr, after all.

Total: Abilities: 24 / Skills: 38--19 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 17 / Defenses: 3 (65)

-Philoctetes is Danny DeVito essentially playing himself (he's well-cast, in any case) as a Mickey-style burned-out trainer. Hercules has to convince Phil to train him, after all of his old students were wash-outs, though if you follow the myths (which this movie... doesn't), 90% of those guys ended up being great heroes regardless (I mean, who would be ashamed of the guy who offed the Minotaur?). He's basically an entirely original character, as Herc's trainer was the more heroic Chiron in the myths, and was a centaur, not a satyr. The "real" Philoctetes was an archer who fought in the Trojan War and later was the only one willing to burn the agonized Hercules at his funeral pyre (earning the favour of the Demi-God), and Phil's whole thing seems to be acting like the God Pan instead- a stereotypical Satyr, basically. He also exists to get as much skirt-chasing as humanly possible into a G-Rated film.

About the Performer: Danny DeVito is famous for being short and ugly, and typically plays characters who fit that type- cantankerous sorts, perverts and low-class individuals. He got his start in the sitcom Taxi (which netted him an Emmy), and was famously in Twins, Batman Returns, and other stuff during my childhood, and kept getting work later, usually in bit parts- he's one of the busier actors out of this whole Disney list, but rarely in major roles until It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Still working while in his 70s, he's known to be legitimately talented but pretty much relegated to smaller joke-y roles, to the point where he was nominated for a Tony as recently as 2017.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab's Builds! (DuckTales! Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo!)

Post by Jabroniville »

M4C8 wrote: Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:55 pm One of the things I remember hearing about Disney Land was that at one point the workers at the park jokingly referred to it 'Mouschwitz', of course when the bosses found out a stern memo was sent out saying that it 'stops now' and anyone caught using the name would be fired.
Within a day they were calling it 'Duckau' :)
Park workers are a notoriously surly bunch, which is kind of funny, given the hoops you have to jump through to even get hired there. They have auditions, CLASSES, and insane amounts of work requirements (no visible tattoos; only ear piercings, facial hair limits, hair types disallowed, etc.)... but pay like crap and will fire anyone at the drop of a hat.

I mean, they all seem to be hardcore Disneyphiles, because WHY ELSE work there?
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Megara

Post by Jabroniville »

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Megara: You're way off base, I won't say it
Get off my case, I won't say it

Muses:
Girl, don't be proud
It's okay -- you're in love

Megara:
OH-oh-oh-OHHH-OHHHH...
At least out loud...
I won't say I'm in... LO-OOOVVVVVVE..."


MEGARA
Played by:
Susan Egan
Role: Femme Fatale, Heartbroken Girl, Disney Princess (technically)
PL 3 (70), PL 4 (70) Defenses
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 3 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Athletics 1 (+2)
Deception 3 (+6, +10 Attractive)
Expertise (Singing) 10 (+13)
Insight 2 (+4)
Persuasion 2 (+5, +9 Attractive)

Advantages:
Attractive 2

Offense:
Unarmed +3 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +3 (DC 13), Parry +3 (DC 13), Toughness +2, Fortitude +3, Will +5

Complications:
Motivation (Freedom From Hades' Power)- Megara sold her soul to Hades years ago, and is working for him to "buy off" her time.
Responsibility ("I Won't Say I'm In Love")- Megara sold her soul to save a boyfriend's life, but was left broken-hearted when he chased after the next thing in a skirt. This has made her cold and cynical ("if there was a prize for rotten judgement..."), and she rejects the idea that she could ever fall in love again.
Relationship (Hercules)- "Wonder Boy" has proven himself as a hero and a nice guy to her, but Meg still refuses to believe it. At least out loud, she won't say she's in love.

Total: Abilities: 30 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 2 / Powers: 17 / Defenses: 4 (70)

-Megara is one of the shining parts of Hercules, and one of the most unique characters in a Disney film. Cynics were relatively common as far back as Snow White, because they could represent the snarkers in the audience and therefore could sass the picture to keep things from getting too schmaltzy, but one who was cynical about falling in love itself? And one who was WORKING FOR THE VILLAIN? Now THIS was a unique story!

-Megara ("My friends call me Meg. At least they would if I had any friends") had sold her soul to Hades in order to save her lover's life... but when he chased after the newest piece of tail, he left her utterly heartbroken, and beholden to the God of the Dead. So now she's a sarcastic, bitter, broken cynic who refuses to ever get attached again... and when she falls for "Wonder Boy" and his innate goodness, she has some decisions to make. Her freedom is the prize if she does what Hades wants, but she'll have to betray Herc to do it. And so we get the best character moments of the film, as the "Broken Bird" cynic is forced to confront her own emotions, blasting out a wonderful "Do Not Want" song called I Won't Say (I'm In Love)- a desperate attempt to avoid her own emotions. Susan Egan's world-weary, sly voice acting is a real revelation here, as you can just feel she's SO broken, doesn't want to admit to herself that she's falling in love, and as she gets sassier and sassier to Hades about it, she finally admits it to herself, sacrificing herself for the man she loves.

-Overall, she was sly, cynical and misleading, which made her a very interesting, fun to watch character. She used WAYYY too much slang at points, which, combined with Susan Egan's Broadway-trained enunciation, led to some cheesiness ("It's been a real SLICE-ah!" or "This scene won't play!"), where the play up the Gospel Muses at the same time and play them off of Meg as she rejects the possibility of love as "too cliche!" so it's a pity she's only ever really been a Broadway actress of some note, since those types are unfortunately less famous. The only problem with it is that it's like TWO MINUTES LONG, when the cheeseball '80s Michael Bolton Power Ballad "I Can Go The Distance" gets all the hype- lesson learned: Power Ballads only work when they're FROM the Eighties, not as straight attempts from 1997 to recapture the decade.

-Her character design is kind of off-kilter, as her face is really well-designed, but her head is misshapen, and her torso is extended to a ludicrous degree, making her look odd when wearing anything other than her purple toga (I mean, if you were to say come across some nudie pics on Deviant Art... BY COMPLETE ACCIDENT, of course... you would discover just how weird her body actually looks). But I still get a kick out of her smirky face and the way she does the "biting with parted lips to convey sultriness" thing on Herc when she attempts to seduce him. Her realization when he does the nerdy-boy "peck on the cheek" thing is hilarious, too.

About the Performer: Susan Egan got noticed by Disney as the original Belle on the Broadway version of Beauty and the Beast- listening to the soundtrack is actually "a bit alarming", as she would say, as Egan's distinctive raspy, sarcastic voice as someone as sweet as BELLE just feels odd. Only twenty-four when cast as Belle, her voice sounds much older, which really provides some maturity and kick to the world-weariness of Megara (hard to believe she was only 27 at the time). She's primarily been in theatre since then, performing in various cities as top characters like Maria Von Trapp, Molly Brown, and a thoroughly modern woman named Millie, but has few Broadway credits to her name. Her major TV credit was as "The Best Friend" on Nikki Cox's short-lived sitcom Nikki (when Cox was one of the hottest women in Hollywood and not a plastic surgery monster). Most recently, she was Rose Quartz/Pink Diamond on Steven Universe. It's a bit of a... MINOR career- certainly nothing compared to any of her co-stars in Hercules, which is kind of sad, given how good she was as Meg. It's serviceable and all, and she keeps working, but you'd think she'd have a bigger IMDB page, at least.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
Shock
Posts: 2978
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:27 pm
Location: Connecticut USA

Re: Philoctetes

Post by Shock »

Jabroniville wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:43 am
About the Performer: Danny DeVito is famous for being short and ugly, and typically plays characters who fit that type- cantankerous sorts, perverts and low-class individuals. He got his start in the sitcom Taxi (which netted him an Emmy), and was famously in Twins, Batman Returns, and My Cousin Vinny during my childhood, and kept getting work later, usually in bit parts- he's one of the busier actors out of this whole Disney list, but rarely in major roles until It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Still working while in his 70s, he's known to be legitimately talented but pretty much relegated to smaller joke-y roles, to the point where he was nominated for a Tony as recently as 2017.
My Cousin Vinny?
Jabroniville
Posts: 24695
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab's Builds! (Quasimodo! Esmeralda! Frollo! Hercules! Megara!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Wrong short guy. I never saw the film.
User avatar
Woodclaw
Posts: 1462
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:05 pm
Location: Como, Italy

Re: Philoctetes

Post by Woodclaw »

Shock wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 2:07 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:43 am
About the Performer: Danny DeVito is famous for being short and ugly, and typically plays characters who fit that type- cantankerous sorts, perverts and low-class individuals. He got his start in the sitcom Taxi (which netted him an Emmy), and was famously in Twins, Batman Returns, and My Cousin Vinny during my childhood, and kept getting work later, usually in bit parts- he's one of the busier actors out of this whole Disney list, but rarely in major roles until It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Still working while in his 70s, he's known to be legitimately talented but pretty much relegated to smaller joke-y roles, to the point where he was nominated for a Tony as recently as 2017.
My Cousin Vinny?
A comedy about a pair of New Yorkers going through the most godforsaken parts of Alabama. I only know it because my old GM quoted a couple of lines from it over and over again. apparently it has a pretty accurate depiction of courtroom procedure.
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

WareHouse W (main build thread for M&M)
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