Jab’s Builds! (Lawnmower Man! Samus Aran! Metroids!)

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KorokoMystia
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Brotherhood of Evil! Deathstroke the Terminator!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

Speaking of Dr. Sivana, I was reminded of a episode of the Brave and the Bold cartoon where he stole Black Adam's power and became "Captain Sivana", proceeding to kick the asses of Batman and Billy somehow, until they trick him into saying Shazam again. (as per usual) Reading further, it seems there was a simlar story in the comics as well.

..Also, wow, I just realized how uncreative Psimon's codename is. He literally just took his real name, and added a P at the beginning.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Brotherhood of Evil! Deathstroke the Terminator!)

Post by Ares »

KorokoMystia wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:00 pm Speaking of Dr. Sivana, I was reminded of a episode of the Brave and the Bold cartoon where he stole Black Adam's power and became "Captain Sivana", proceeding to kick the asses of Batman and Billy somehow, until they trick him into saying Shazam again. (as per usual) Reading further, it seems there was a simlar story in the comics as well.
Image

Yep. There was a "DC Comics Presents" issue where Dr. Sivana attacked Metropolis in a giant robot for no apparent reason (this was back when Cap and Superman were on different Earths). After Superman predictably destroys the robot, Sivana escapes and flies to the Rock of Eternity, where his real plan begins. He's SCIENCED! up a means to temporarily put the Wizard Shazam into a slumber, though Sivana notes that this is a one-shot deal, as Shazam will know to guard against it in the future. He also notes that this will not actually prevent the Marvel Family from calling on their powers, but doesn't seem unhappy with the idea.

Later, Sivana flies over Fawcett City in a giant battle ship, and broadcasts to everyone that he will obliterate the city unless Captain Marvel comes out to stop him. Billy predictably says his magic word, at which point we get a shot of Sivana in the ship, hooked up to a machine. We see the Shazam bolt come down, but it forks into two bolts, one striking Billy, one striking Sivana's ship.

When Captain Marvel flies up to investigate, Dr. Sivana flies out to meet him, now in a buff superpowered body in Cap's costume, but with the red swapped out for green. Calling himself "Captain Sivana", Sivana and Cap fight, only for Cap's powers to gradually drain away into Sivana, leaving him basically as powerful as an adult human. However, Mary and Freddy fly up as well, and Sivana isn't certain he can take them both on. Holding the powerless Cap in one hand, Sivana throws his massive battleship at the city, forcing Mary and Freddy to fly down to catch it while Sivana makes his escape.

Sivana then takes the now powerless Cap to the Rock of Eternity, showing him the Wizard Shazam in his unconscious state, and reveals what he did. Normally when Shazam is conscious, he directly controls the Shazam lightning, ensuring the power goes to the person it's intended. With Shazam unconscious, the power will still flow to its intended target, but someone who knows enough about Shazam lightning can interfere with the power in some way.

And Sivana knows more about Shazam lightning than anyone outside of the Wizard and the Marvel Family. He couldn't call the power down himself, but once a bolt was on its way he could cause the bolt to split, siphoning most of the power into himself, and the power would then continue to drain into him until Cap was left without any magical abilities. Sivana then flies Cap to another section of the Rock of Eternity, digging a small cave and then tossing Cap inside before re-sealing the cave. He figures Cap has an hour or two of air, plenty of time to suffer while Sivana prepares to conquer the multiverse.

Sivana then sees Mary and Freddy approaching, and engages them in battle. Deciding that destroying the Marvel Family has earned him a promotion, he re-names himself Major Sivana. The boasting is a bit premature as Freddy and Mary start to use team-work to beat the tar out of him, making it clear that both of them are just as powerful as Sivana is. Realizing that he'll get his clock cleaned if this keeps up, Sivana comes up with a plan. Using the Rock of Eternity, he enters into the time stream, daring them to follow him. Unable to tell whether he went to the future or the past, Mary and Freddy each pick a direction up and down the time stream and fly after him in pursuit. Only Sivana reveals that he had really entered the time stream and emerged a second after the two of them had flown in after him. Sivana then uses his connection to Rock of Eternity to trap Mary and Freddy in the time stream, preventing them from returning to the present.

Sivana revels in his victory, deciding to promote himself again to "Colonel Sivana", but then remembers that while he's now the most powerful person in Earth-S, there are a few people in the multiverse with power to rival his own. His attack on Superman earlier in the issue had been a test of his power, and decides that Superman needs to be taken out next.

Using his powers, Sivana flies to Metropolis, but winds up Earth-2 by mistake, and battles the Earth-2 Superman, and actually beats Kal-L in a fair fight. Sivana knows that the only 100% certain way to kill a Kryptonian is with Kryptonite, so he takes the unconscious E2 Superman into space, locating a large meteorite of Kryptonite and tossing Superman into it. The meteorite's own gravity will keep the weakened Superman held to it, where it's energies will slowly kill him over the course of an hour. Having defeated a Superman, Sivana promotes himself again to "General Sivana".

And here we learn the other reason Sivana didn't kill Captain Marvel: the power connection between the two allows Cap to see and hear everything Sivana does, meaning he's watching Sivana beat up and imprison his friends. Cap can only watch helplessly as Sivana takes over the universe. Cap has also been trying to dig his way free, but each boulder weights several tons, and he can't so much as budge them.

Sivana then flies to Earth-1 Metropolis and issues a challenge to Superman, who naturally responds and the two engage in battle. Sivana smacks Superman with a steel-I beam, mocking him as he does so. Superman responds with, "You forget Sivana, I'm SUPERMAN. I BEND steel . . . . and I BREAK braggarts!" before punching Sivana clear across town. Cap sees this happening and starts to cheer Superman on, certain that Supes is the only hope the multiverse has.

Sivana then flies down on top of a moving train car, shouting another challenge to Superman. Superman flies down to join Sivana . . . and promptly crumples to his knees in pain. Sivana laughs and walks over to Superman, ripping open the top of the train car to reveal glowing green light. While in Earth-2, Sivana decided to take the rest of the Kryptonite meteorites and bring them to Earth-1, loading them in the train car and luring Superman to it. The whole battle had been a set up to get Clark overconfident and to follow him to that spot. Sivana then reveals that he's shaped some of the Kryptonite into a "brass knuckle", and proceeds to beat the already weakened Superman with knuckles lined in Kryptonite.

Cap begins to despair, and tries again to break out, only to fail once again. At his lowest point, Cap claims that he's failed the wizard, failed the Elder Gods and Heroes who empowered him, failed the multiverse, and that without his powers, he's worthless. At which point, the Elders start to speak to him. Shazam's magic didn't just forge a connection between Cap and the Elder's power, he forged a connection to the Elders themselves. And they assure Billy that he has not failed them, and that they agreed to Shazam's choice to pick him because of who he is. They further reveal that Sivana lied to Cap. Sivana's machine copied Cap's power into himself, and then dampened Cap's own power to make him appear powerless. No machine can just take his powers away. Their power is his and his alone, and is waiting for him to call upon it if he has the will to do so, if he believes he can. And the Elders believe in him.

Reinvigorated, Cap digs down deep, admitting to himself that he had given into despair. And as the side of the Rock of Eternity explodes, he vows "Never again." He flies out of the Rock, glowing with power, and in an instant he's in Earth-1, right as Sivana is about to kill Superman. Cap tackles Sivana off of him, and lets Superman know that his Earth-2 counterpart is dying. Superman, weakened though he is, flies to Earth-2 and sees Kal-L held to the meteorite. Since he can't just grab his E2 ally, Superman instead flies at one of the large, non-Kryptonite meteorites, smashing into it so hard that the shock waves knock Kal-L off of the Kryptonite meteorite, where both men can begin to regain their strength.

Back on Earth, Cap and Sivana fight head to head, and Cap hits Sivana so hard that the impact actually wakes up the Wizard Shazam. It's likely that Shazam was connected to Sivana and Cap as well, and the impact was enough to wake Shazam up. But the text kind of implies that the impact was so powerful and loud that Shazam HEARD IT from the Rock of Eternity. So yeah, if you want, you can interpret this as a punch heard throughout the multiverse. :mrgreen:

In any case, now that he's awake, Shazam starts to fix things. Unlike Cap, Mary, Freddy and Black Adam, Sivana was never actually given a proper connection to the Power of Shazam. Which means the power isn't really his. Which means Shazam can just snap his fingers and the power flows out of Sivana, rendering him mortal once again. The Supermen show up, as do Mary and Freddy, Shazam having fixed what Sivana had done to the Rock and the time stream. Cap explains everything, with Mary and Freddy taking Sivana back to jail and Kal-L deciding to return home to his wife. Superman and Cap part as friends, Clark thanking Cap for saving his life while Cap closes the issue, talking about how it's important to never lose faith in yourself.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Brotherhood of Evil! Deathstroke the Terminator!)

Post by Ares »

KorokoMystia wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:00 pm ..Also, wow, I just realized how uncreative Psimon's codename is. He literally just took his real name, and added a P at the beginning.
It's also a play on the old game "Simon says". Because he's telepathic and can make you do things with his brain. "Psimon says, DIE."
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Brotherhood of Evil! Deathstroke the Terminator!)

Post by catsi563 »

Interesting I wonder if Sivana is the big bad for Shazam coming up?
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Brotherhood of Evil! Deathstroke the Terminator!)

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catsi563 wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:14 pm Interesting I wonder if Sivana is the big bad for Shazam coming up?
The movie? Yeah, it's been established Sivana is the villain, as it's based on the Curse of Shazam story. Only in this version, Sivana managed to encounter the Wizard and steal some of his power, so when Nu-Shazam shows up, he goes to him to steal some more. We'll get a flying brick battle between Sivana and Nu-Shazam.

And I HATE it. The above story with Major-General Sivana (and he's not the very model of a modern major general) was cool because it was a subversion of the usual dynamic between them, with Sivana finally stealing the Power of Shazam after 40 years of trying to beat Cap with his raw scientific ability. This is Sivana being introduced from the get go as a flying powerhouse, rather than as a super-scientist. If they wanted a flying brick battle, they needed to either just go with Black Adam or have some other threat.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Brotherhood of Evil! Deathstroke the Terminator!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

Ares wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:26 pm
catsi563 wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:14 pm Interesting I wonder if Sivana is the big bad for Shazam coming up?
The movie? Yeah, it's been established Sivana is the villain, as it's based on the Curse of Shazam story. Only in this version, Sivana managed to encounter the Wizard and steal some of his power, so when Nu-Shazam shows up, he goes to him to steal some more. We'll get a flying brick battle between Sivana and Nu-Shazam.

And I HATE it. The above story with Major-General Sivana (and he's not the very model of a modern major general) was cool because it was a subversion of the usual dynamic between them, with Sivana finally stealing the Power of Shazam after 40 years of trying to beat Cap with his raw scientific ability. This is Sivana being introduced from the get go as a flying powerhouse, rather than as a super-scientist. If they wanted a flying brick battle, they needed to either just go with Black Adam or have some other threat.
Yeah, that sounds really stupid. Here's hoping the actor playing Sivana (Mark Strong, who I only know from Kingsman) can put up a good performance, at least.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Brotherhood of Evil! Deathstroke the Terminator!)

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Ares wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:03 pm
KorokoMystia wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:00 pm Speaking of Dr. Sivana, I was reminded of a episode of the Brave and the Bold cartoon where he stole Black Adam's power and became "Captain Sivana", proceeding to kick the asses of Batman and Billy somehow, until they trick him into saying Shazam again. (as per usual) Reading further, it seems there was a simlar story in the comics as well.
Image

Yep. There was a "DC Comics Presents" issue where Dr. Sivana attacked Metropolis in a giant robot for no apparent reason (this was back when Cap and Superman were on different Earths). After Superman predictably destroys the robot, Sivana escapes and flies to the Rock of Eternity, where his real plan begins. He's SCIENCED! up a means to temporarily put the Wizard Shazam into a slumber, though Sivana notes that this is a one-shot deal, as Shazam will know to guard against it in the future. He also notes that this will not actually prevent the Marvel Family from calling on their powers, but doesn't seem unhappy with the idea.

Later, Sivana flies over Fawcett City in a giant battle ship, and broadcasts to everyone that he will obliterate the city unless Captain Marvel comes out to stop him. Billy predictably says his magic word, at which point we get a shot of Sivana in the ship, hooked up to a machine. We see the Shazam bolt come down, but it forks into two bolts, one striking Billy, one striking Sivana's ship.

When Captain Marvel flies up to investigate, Dr. Sivana flies out to meet him, now in a buff superpowered body in Cap's costume, but with the red swapped out for green. Calling himself "Captain Sivana", Sivana and Cap fight, only for Cap's powers to gradually drain away into Sivana, leaving him basically as powerful as an adult human. However, Mary and Freddy fly up as well, and Sivana isn't certain he can take them both on. Holding the powerless Cap in one hand, Sivana throws his massive battleship at the city, forcing Mary and Freddy to fly down to catch it while Sivana makes his escape.

Sivana then takes the now powerless Cap to the Rock of Eternity, showing him the Wizard Shazam in his unconscious state, and reveals what he did. Normally when Shazam is conscious, he directly controls the Shazam lightning, ensuring the power goes to the person it's intended. With Shazam unconscious, the power will still flow to its intended target, but someone who knows enough about Shazam lightning can interfere with the power in some way.

And Sivana knows more about Shazam lightning than anyone outside of the Wizard and the Marvel Family. He couldn't call the power down himself, but once a bolt was on its way he could cause the bolt to split, siphoning most of the power into himself, and the power would then continue to drain into him until Cap was left without any magical abilities. Sivana then flies Cap to another section of the Rock of Eternity, digging a small cave and then tossing Cap inside before re-sealing the cave. He figures Cap has an hour or two of air, plenty of time to suffer while Sivana prepares to conquer the multiverse.

Sivana then sees Mary and Freddy approaching, and engages them in battle. Deciding that destroying the Marvel Family has earned him a promotion, he re-names himself Major Sivana. The boasting is a bit premature as Freddy and Mary start to use team-work to beat the tar out of him, making it clear that both of them are just as powerful as Sivana is. Realizing that he'll get his clock cleaned if this keeps up, Sivana comes up with a plan. Using the Rock of Eternity, he enters into the time stream, daring them to follow him. Unable to tell whether he went to the future or the past, Mary and Freddy each pick a direction up and down the time stream and fly after him in pursuit. Only Sivana reveals that he had really entered the time stream and emerged a second after the two of them had flown in after him. Sivana then uses his connection to Rock of Eternity to trap Mary and Freddy in the time stream, preventing them from returning to the present.

Sivana revels in his victory, deciding to promote himself again to "Colonel Sivana", but then remembers that while he's now the most powerful person in Earth-S, there are a few people in the multiverse with power to rival his own. His attack on Superman earlier in the issue had been a test of his power, and decides that Superman needs to be taken out next.

Using his powers, Sivana flies to Metropolis, but winds up Earth-2 by mistake, and battles the Earth-2 Superman, and actually beats Kal-L in a fair fight. Sivana knows that the only 100% certain way to kill a Kryptonian is with Kryptonite, so he takes the unconscious E2 Superman into space, locating a large meteorite of Kryptonite and tossing Superman into it. The meteorite's own gravity will keep the weakened Superman held to it, where it's energies will slowly kill him over the course of an hour. Having defeated a Superman, Sivana promotes himself again to "General Sivana".

And here we learn the other reason Sivana didn't kill Captain Marvel: the power connection between the two allows Cap to see and hear everything Sivana does, meaning he's watching Sivana beat up and imprison his friends. Cap can only watch helplessly as Sivana takes over the universe. Cap has also been trying to dig his way free, but each boulder weights several tons, and he can't so much as budge them.

Sivana then flies to Earth-1 Metropolis and issues a challenge to Superman, who naturally responds and the two engage in battle. Sivana smacks Superman with a steel-I beam, mocking him as he does so. Superman responds with, "You forget Sivana, I'm SUPERMAN. I BEND steel . . . . and I BREAK braggarts!" before punching Sivana clear across town. Cap sees this happening and starts to cheer Superman on, certain that Supes is the only hope the multiverse has.

Sivana then flies down on top of a moving train car, shouting another challenge to Superman. Superman flies down to join Sivana . . . and promptly crumples to his knees in pain. Sivana laughs and walks over to Superman, ripping open the top of the train car to reveal glowing green light. While in Earth-2, Sivana decided to take the rest of the Kryptonite meteorites and bring them to Earth-1, loading them in the train car and luring Superman to it. The whole battle had been a set up to get Clark overconfident and to follow him to that spot. Sivana then reveals that he's shaped some of the Kryptonite into a "brass knuckle", and proceeds to beat the already weakened Superman with knuckles lined in Kryptonite.

Cap begins to despair, and tries again to break out, only to fail once again. At his lowest point, Cap claims that he's failed the wizard, failed the Elder Gods and Heroes who empowered him, failed the multiverse, and that without his powers, he's worthless. At which point, the Elders start to speak to him. Shazam's magic didn't just forge a connection between Cap and the Elder's power, he forged a connection to the Elders themselves. And they assure Billy that he has not failed them, and that they agreed to Shazam's choice to pick him because of who he is. They further reveal that Sivana lied to Cap. Sivana's machine copied Cap's power into himself, and then dampened Cap's own power to make him appear powerless. No machine can just take his powers away. Their power is his and his alone, and is waiting for him to call upon it if he has the will to do so, if he believes he can. And the Elders believe in him.

Reinvigorated, Cap digs down deep, admitting to himself that he had given into despair. And as the side of the Rock of Eternity explodes, he vows "Never again." He flies out of the Rock, glowing with power, and in an instant he's in Earth-1, right as Sivana is about to kill Superman. Cap tackles Sivana off of him, and lets Superman know that his Earth-2 counterpart is dying. Superman, weakened though he is, flies to Earth-2 and sees Kal-L held to the meteorite. Since he can't just grab his E2 ally, Superman instead flies at one of the large, non-Kryptonite meteorites, smashing into it so hard that the shock waves knock Kal-L off of the Kryptonite meteorite, where both men can begin to regain their strength.

Back on Earth, Cap and Sivana fight head to head, and Cap hits Sivana so hard that the impact actually wakes up the Wizard Shazam. It's likely that Shazam was connected to Sivana and Cap as well, and the impact was enough to wake Shazam up. But the text kind of implies that the impact was so powerful and loud that Shazam HEARD IT from the Rock of Eternity. So yeah, if you want, you can interpret this as a punch heard throughout the multiverse. :mrgreen:

In any case, now that he's awake, Shazam starts to fix things. Unlike Cap, Mary, Freddy and Black Adam, Sivana was never actually given a proper connection to the Power of Shazam. Which means the power isn't really his. Which means Shazam can just snap his fingers and the power flows out of Sivana, rendering him mortal once again. The Supermen show up, as do Mary and Freddy, Shazam having fixed what Sivana had done to the Rock and the time stream. Cap explains everything, with Mary and Freddy taking Sivana back to jail and Kal-L deciding to return home to his wife. Superman and Cap part as friends, Clark thanking Cap for saving his life while Cap closes the issue, talking about how it's important to never lose faith in yourself.
Have this story, love it. Shows how tough Billy is and why he was chosen.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Brotherhood of Evil! Deathstroke the Terminator!)

Post by Jack of Spades »

Ares wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:03 pm Yep. There was a "DC Comics Presents" issue where Dr. Sivana attacked Metropolis in a giant robot for no apparent reason (this was back when Cap and Superman were on different Earths). After Superman predictably destroys the robot, Sivana escapes and flies to the Rock of Eternity, where his real plan begins. He's SCIENCED! up a means to temporarily put the Wizard Shazam into a slumber, though Sivana notes that this is a one-shot deal, as Shazam will know to guard against it in the future. He also notes that this will not actually prevent the Marvel Family from calling on their powers, but doesn't seem unhappy with the idea...
That'd be twelve issues and two tie ins today.
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Jinx

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

JINX
Created By:
Marv Wolfman & Chuck Patton
First Appearance: Tales of the Teen Titans #56 (Aug. 1985)
Role: Sorta-Magic Chick
Group Affiliations: The Fearsome Five, The Injustice League, Villains Inc.
PL 10 (112)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Athletics 3 (+4)
Expertise (Arcane Lore) 8 (+9)
Intimidation 3 (+4)
Perception 4 (+5)
Ranged Combat (Magic) 4 (+9)
Stealth 2 (+5)

Advantages:
Luck 3, Ranged Attack 1

Powers:
"Elemental Sorceress" Magic 15 [35]
"Disintegration" Blast 8 Linked to Weaken Toughness 8 (Extras: Ranged, Affects Objects) (40) -- [44]
  • AE: Blasts 11 (Feats: Split, Variable 2- Any Element) (25)
  • AE: "Earthquake" Affliction 10 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 8 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Grounded Opponents) (11)
  • AE: Transform 5 (Anything to Anything Else) (Extras: Ranged) (30)
  • AE: "Air Control" Move Object 8 (16)
Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Blasts +9 (+11 Ranged Damage, DC 26)
Earthquake +10 Area (+10 Affliction & +8 Damage, DC 20 & 23)
Disintegration +9 (+8 Ranged Damage & Weaken, DC 23 & 18)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +2, Fortitude +4, Will +5

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)
Power Loss (All Powers)- Jinx must remain in contact with the Earth in order to utilize her powers- she always goes barefoot.

Total: Abilities: 38 / Skills: 24--12 / Advantages: 3 / Powers: 44 / Defenses: 15 (112)

-Jinx was added to the Fearsome Five by Marv Wolfman after the Crisis on Infinite Earths saw the death of Psimon, whom Wolfman feared "was too powerful". Given a very unique, interesting look, Jinx was a mysterious Indian elementalist. She only fought the Titans a couple of times, and was largely ignored afterwards- typically just showing up for big Group Shots, as she had a distinct appearance, even in large crowds (being a dark-skinned woman in a white bikini). She survived both the Outsiders (unlike Gizmo) and Salvation Run (unlike Plasmus & Shimmer, two other Titans foes).

-Jinx is incredibly versatile, but limited to being an offensive heavy-hitter, being very weak and the epitome of a glass cannon (she's PL 6 to dodge). Still, a pretty devastating opponent for being so poorly-built-up pp-wise.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Brotherhood of Evil! Deathstroke the Terminator!)

Post by Ken »

Ares wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:03 pmDeciding that destroying the Marvel Family has earned him a promotion, he re-names himself Major Sivana.

Sivana revels in his victory, deciding to promote himself again to "Colonel Sivana"

Using his powers, Sivana flies to Metropolis, but winds up Earth-2 by mistake, and battles the Earth-2 Superman, and actually beats Kal-L in a fair fight. Sivana knows that the only 100% certain way to kill a Kryptonian is with Kryptonite, so he takes the unconscious E2 Superman into space, locating a large meteorite of Kryptonite and tossing Superman into it. The meteorite's own gravity will keep the weakened Superman held to it, where it's energies will slowly kill him over the course of an hour. Having defeated a Superman, Sivana promotes himself again to "General Sivana".
I remember this one. I remember thinking I'd like it better if they had an inker, rather than Kane inking his own pencils.

This was also when I realised that Dr. Sivana (or more likely Roy Thomas and Joey Cavalieri) really don't understand Captain Marvel's costume. He has 5 bands on his wrist, with one bump at the top. Clearly that is a stylised version of an O-6 rank, and an O-6 is a colonel in the army or marines, but in the navy an O-6 is a captain. But despite this, Sivana was promoting himself using the army rank designations.
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Re: Jab’s Builds (The Brotherhood of Evil! Deathstroke the Terminator!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

For Jinx, it seems like her toon appearance is a lot more popular, which..doesn't really surprise me at all, but wow: The design is so radically different it's really not even the same character at all. She doesn't even have the same powers! (In the cartoon she's more Scarlet Witch-y) For reference:
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Dr. Light (The Rape-y One)

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

LOL at Donna completely trashing The Atom. Methinks Wolfman didn't have a favorite.

DR. LIGHT I (Doctor Arthur Light)
Created By:
Gardner Fox & Mike Sekowsky
First Appearance: Justice League of America #12 (June 1962)
Role: Silver Age Villain-Turned-Joke Villain, Super-Rapist
Group Affiliations: The Society, The Fearsome Five, The Injustice Gang
PL 10 (110)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 4 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Deception 5 (+5)
Expertise (Criminal) 3 (+5)
Expertise (Science) 6 (+10)
Insight 3 (+3)
Perception 4 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Light) 4 (+10)
Technology 5 (+9)

Advantages:
Improved Aim, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 2

Powers:
"Light Powers"
Light Blast 10 (Feats: Split, Improved Critical) (22) -- [29]
  • AE: "Light Wave" Damage 8 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone) (16)
  • AE: Dazzle Visuals 10 (20)
  • AE: Dazzle Visuals 10 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Touch Range) (20)
  • AE: "Complete Darkness" Concealment 2 (Visuals) (Extras: Attack, Area- 120ft. Burst +3) (12)
  • AE: Force Field 8 (8)
  • AE: "Invisibility" Concealment 2 (Visuals) (4)
  • AE: Nullify Light Descriptor Powers 12 (12)
Flight 3 (16 mph) [6]
Senses 2 (Darkvision) [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Light Blast +10 (+10 Ranged Damage, DC 25)
Dazzle Visuals +10 (+10 Ranged Affliction, DC 20)
Area Visual Dazzle +10 (+10 Affliction, DC 20)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +2 (+10 Force Field), Fortitude +5, Will +4

Complications:
Motivation (Greed)
Reputation (Incompetent Coward)- Light was dismissed as a moron for much of his career. This was revealed to be the result of tampering with his mind at the hands of Zatanna.
Addiction (Rape)- Just... DON'T ASK, okay? Light is a leering, woman-hungry rapist, fantasizing about it often. I guess.
Enemy (Kimyo Hoshi- Dr. Light II)- Arthur doesn't care for the superhero who shares his name.

Total: Abilities: 38 / Skills: 30--15 / Advantages: 4 / Powers: 37 / Defenses: 16 (110)

Doctor Light- Silver Age Foe Turned Buffoon:
-What the--? I didn't have a 3rd Edition DOCTOR LIGHT build, either? Weird. Doctor Light started out as a bit of a Generic Silver Age Villain- evil douchebag gets powers; goes on crime spree. He debuted fighting the JUSTICE LEAGUE, actually, and managed to send the Leaguers to different planets based off of their weaknesses. However, Superman & Batman were impersonating each other, so they ended up escaping easily. He would keep on going as a recurring foe, though not a major one, and the 1980s would see him being used as a bigger and bigger doofus each time. My only comic featuring his older self, a Teen Titans one, features him building up the Fearsome Five after placing a NEWSPAPER AD in a villainous publication (really), but the group is immediately taken over by the more powerful Psimon, with Light being reduced to a whining patsy who is dumped from the group immediately after the mission, and he's permanently replaced thereafter.

-Other '80s books would keep this going- he was once beaten by a group of non-superpowered children in The Blue Boys, and in the Crisis, he was replaced with a female SUPERHERO Doctor Light for some reason. A Secret Origins comic would retcon that there was a superheroic Dr. Light named Jacob Findlay, but Dr. Arthur Light accidentally killed him- Light then took the codename for himself. The ghost of Finlay occasionally haunted him thereafter. In Suicide Squad, he showcased a pathological fear of children- when the Force of July attacked, he lashed out at the young Sparkler, killing the hero with a blast through the chest. Finally, Dr. Light attempts a heroic turn, but immediately dies during the Squad's invasion of Apokolips, ending up in hell... where both he and Finlay are allowed to escape and return to life. Except Light dies once more, suffocating IN HIS GRAVE, and Finlay is later killed by religious vigilantes (god this storyline seems weird- the book was full of dark humor, though). He finally returns to life again, and stays that way, annoying a few heroes here and there, and becoming living light for a while.

Identity Crisis- Doctor Rape:
-Identity Crisis would change the character utterly, as crime novelist Brad Meltzer wanted a "Whodunnit?", and was given a lot of leeway with old-school characters. The story controversially features a retcon in which Doctor Light invaded the JLA's satellite, found Ralph Dibny's wife Sue, and brutally RAPED HER, pretty much shocking everyone. I remember my roommate at the time going "I don't want to read comics about THAT!" Light was immediately brutalized by the League, with Ralph smashing him in the head with Hawkman's mace. Light is then BRAINWASHED by the League, with retcons pointing out that this has happened before- usually to get villains to forget the secret identities of the heroes. In this case, however, they alter his mind to make him no longer a threat; THIS is explained as the reasoning why a former serious threat later became "a moron", easily beaten by children.

-Now this... was really a weird tack. First, rape in comics is almost NEVER handled delicately or well- part of the issue might be that seemingly worse crimes, like MURDER, mean less in a medium where heroes come back to life all the time. There's no un-RAPING someone. Also, Sue was never given a chance to even handle the thing- it was just a means to an end, and meant to give RALPH more characterization, to give us a possible reasoning why Sue Dibny was murdered (it turned out to be unrelated), and to explain why Dr. Light became a goof. Comics just... ISN'T a good medium for that. Never mind that a lot of writers seem like they're doing it for faps (ALAN MOORE).

-Realizing that the League had "done something to my MIND", Light goes apoplectic and soon becomes a much bigger threat, often taking down the heroes. However, his "Big Push" doesn't really work out- he just kind of cycles back into the medium again- explanations that he's a serial rapist and a leering pervert eventually get so out of hand that other writers started taking pot-shots at him in books, with Plastic Man going "it's like that's his power now". Eventually, he is turned into an always-burning candle by The Spectre. This is used to push the superheroic Doctor Light once more.

Doctor Light's Powers:
-Doctor Light is not ENTIRELY crappy, as he has a good standard Blast power, a Force Field, tons of vision-based powers, and can fly (using light, however that works). But he's lacking in skills and smarts, even after he gets his mind back. The issue with "Dazzle"-types is that in comics, it's treated as a 100% effective super-technique that can stop even the most powerful heroes (hell, it's often a "get out of jail free" card). But in M&M terms, that breaks the game, and typically effects Fortitude, which is a REALLY high stat for the same guys who'd normally be effected by it in comics (why would WONDER WOMAN have a better save for that than Green Arrow? Durable eye rods or whatever?).
Last edited by Jabroniville on Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:18 am, edited 4 times in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24803
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds (The Brotherhood of Evil! Deathstroke the Terminator!)

Post by Jabroniville »

KorokoMystia wrote: Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:38 am For Jinx, it seems like her toon appearance is a lot more popular, which..doesn't really surprise me at all, but wow: The design is so radically different it's really not even the same character at all. She doesn't even have the same powers! (In the cartoon she's more Scarlet Witch-y) For reference:
Image
Yeah, like 90% of the pics on ComicVine are of that character.

It's rather weird- every member of the Five but Dr. Rape end up having almost zero appearances after a point. It's another big difference between Marvel & DC- in Marvel, these losers would at least show up under Mark Gruenwald, or be thrown into a Mark Waid or Kurt Busiek run of Avengers as Mooks. Then they'd be "Backgrounders" throughout tons of Modern Marvel books as part of "The Hood's Army" or "the guys in the back of the Bar With No Name". But in DC they essentially disappeared after the 1990s, not showing up again till The Outsiders... at which point they just started randomly killing them off or whatever.
greycrusader
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Deathstroke! The Fearsome Five! Doctor Light!)

Post by greycrusader »

Yeah, the Fearsome Five...they seemed like they had the potential to be bigger, but somehow they just kind of...faded out. I think they'd largely be completely forgotten if not for their appearances in the various DC animated series starting in the late 1990s Titans cartoon. There was too much that just seemed half-assed with the team; no memorable costumes (Psimon was wearing a purple-pink robe), no particular motivations except greed and malice, little background on the individual members, a revolving door roster...yeah, they just ended up a semi-colorful jobber squad.

And talk about "New Villain Stink" wearing off quickly for a couple members-Psimon went from a team-breaking threat (albeit still a glass canon prone to playing above his league-really, taking on Brainiac and Luthor?) to getting taken out by the Joker in a fit of pique; and Neutron started out as able to actually HURT Kal-El, being almost a villainous Wildfire in terms of power, to just another background scene jerk. I mean, when he was with the Fearsome Five, the others were all scared of him, begging him to hold back, and the Titans knew he was out of their league if he really cut loose.

Yeah, certain applications of Affliction really do not work as well in game as they do in comics; though likewise this is the case with any NPC pulling off the kind of Deception successes Terra had against the Titans. I suppose this is where a bit of GM creativity (and arbitrary Fiat, resulting in Hero Points) comes in. Linking a "Dazzle" Affliction with a Weaken Fort, or basing the Resistance/Recovery off a different trait entirely.

All my best.
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Ares
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Re: Dr. Light (The Rape-y One)

Post by Ares »

Jabroniville wrote: Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:47 am -Other '80s books would keep this going- he was once beaten by a group of non-superpowered children in The Blue Boys, and in the Crisis, he was replaced with a female SUPERHERO Doctor Light for some reason.
Replacing the villainous Dr. Light with a heroine just seemed really weird to me, especially since Arthur was still alive at the time. Dr. Light couldn't have been that awesome a code name, though the outfit worked. I've said it before, but there was a male Japanese hero named Sunburst whose outfit wasn't actually that different from Dr. Light's in terms of design, it was just red, yellow and white where Dr. Light's was Black and White. Sunburst also died in Crisis, sacrificing himself for Japan. Have Dr. Light II change her name to Sunburst II and recolor her outfit slight and bam: problem solved.
A Secret Origins comic would retcon that there was a superheroic Dr. Light named Jacob Findlay, but Dr. Arthur Light accidentally killed him- Light then took the codename for himself. The ghost of Finlay occasionally haunted him thereafter. In Suicide Squad, he showcased a pathological fear of children- when the Force of July attacked, he lashed out at the young Sparkler, killing the hero with a blast through the chest. Finally, Dr. Light attempts a heroic turn, but immediately dies during the Squad's invasion of Apokolips, ending up in hell... where both he and Finlay are allowed to escape and return to life. Except Light dies once more, suffocating IN HIS GRAVE, and Finlay is later killed by religious vigilantes (god this storyline seems weird- the book was full of dark humor, though). He finally returns to life again, and stays that way, annoying a few heroes here and there, and becoming living light for a while.
When Dr. Light came back to life, he was given an uber-90's outfit update, and was actually kind of a threat. The idea was that he had become living light, and that he could actually control the light of Green Lantern's force constructs. So the guy went from getting slapped around by the Titans to someone who was beating Kyle Rayner up with his own constructs. The only thing that saved Kyle was that this fight happened during the events of Final Night, a comic series where the Sun Eater ate modern day Earth's sun, requiring Hal Jordan to sacrifice himself to re-ignite the sun. Dr. Light, now requiring light to live, decided to leave Earth's solar system while there was still time. He later got brought back by Lex Luthor for Morrison's Injustice Gang, and was able to casually defeat Electro-Superman.
Identity Crisis- Doctor Rape:
-Identity Crisis would change the character utterly, as crime novelist Brad Meltzer wanted a "Whodunnit?", and was given a lot of leeway with old-school characters. The story controversially features a retcon in which Doctor Light invaded the JLA's satellite, found Ralph Dibny's wife Sue, and brutally RAPED HER, pretty much shocking everyone. I remember my roommate at the time going "I don't want to read comics about THAT!" Light was immediately brutalized by the League, with Ralph smashing him in the head with Hawkman's mace. Light is then BRAINWASHED by the League, with retcons pointing out that this has happened before- usually to get villains to forget the secret identities of the heroes. In this case, however, they alter his mind to make him no longer a threat; THIS is explained as the reasoning why a former serious threat later became "a moron", easily beaten by children.
The more time has gone on, the more I realize how much I hate Identity Crisis. To me, it was the start of DC's downhill slide towards the worst aspects of Infinite Crisis, Countdown, Final Crisis, Flashpoint and the Nu-52. It doesn't help that the story doesn't really work as a mystery, but the whole thing involving Dr. Light is a pointless red herring designed to make the heroes mistrust each other, make Batman extra paranoid, have the heroes doing unheroic things, and set up both Dr. Light and Deathstroke as A-List Team Beaters.

Part of the problem is that story seems to confuse mind-wipes and brainwashing. Making someone forget something important to the heroes has some grey area to it, but honestly, it's by far the least evil of all options. Because if Lex Luthor has my secret identity? I will wipe his memory of it with not guilt, because otherwise, what choice to do you have? If you let him leave with that info, you and your loved ones will never be safe again. You could honestly make a case for killing him there. Or sending him to the Phantom Zone. But a mindwipe of just that information? Extremely easy to justify.

Using your powers to change someone's personality? That's a whole different ball game, because you're fundamentally altering who someone is, playing God with their minds and taking away their free will. That's a definite no-no, but Identity Crisis seems to treat personality altering as only slightly worse than a selective mind-wipe, which is nuts. And what's worse, the League knows what they did was wrong, because when Batman showed up, they erased the event from his mind rather than explain themselves. That very act retroactively taints every story that happened before it, and is honestly better off being ignored.

Dr. Light didn't need some big explanation for how he went from someone fighting the Justice League to someone fighting the Titans. He was a guy who was smart, but whose first outing was largely luck and New Villain Stink, after which he was a known threat and heroes could compensate for him. And you could easily just have him work on getting his act back together and being a threat again. By making him a rapist, all you did was make every story after this involve him being a rapist, to the point of parody. They essentially made him unusable.
There's no un-RAPING someone.
Unprofessional comics writer Chelsea Cain would disagree with you, and tried to do her best to prove you wrong. The only thing she did prove was that un-raping someone can actually be worse than the original rape.
Doctor Light's Powers:
-Doctor Light is not ENTIRELY crappy, as he has a good standard Blast power, a Force Field, tons of vision-based powers, and can fly (using light, however that works). But he's lacking in skills and smarts, even after he gets his mind back. The issue with "Dazzle"-types is that in comics, it's treated as a 100% effective super-technique that can stop even the most powerful heroes (hell, it's often a "get out of jail free" card). But in M&M terms, that breaks the game, and typically effects Fortitude, which is a REALLY high stat for the same guys who'd normally be effected by it in comics (why would WONDER WOMAN have a better save for that than Green Arrow? Durable eye rods or whatever?).
Yeah, sensory based attacks should really be more of a case of Reflexes than Fortitude, requiring you to turn your head or cover your ears in time to avoid the attack, rather than just "My Eyeballs are more resistant to dazzles" due to a high Fort save. Characters who can easily deal with such an effect should have to buy an Immunity to Sensory effects or have some feature where they can use their Fort save in place of Reflex to resist sensory effects.

Similarly, I feel that most comic book gas should probably be opposed with Reflex, since it seems that it's more of a question of whether they breath the gas in, not whether or not the gas is powerful enough to overcome their superhuman resistance. Something where you need to make your Reflex save to close your mouth in time, and if not you avoid the attack entirely. If you fail that, then your Fortitude determines how long you're effected by the gas, so having a high Fort means you shake off the effects sooner, but you still suffer the effect for one round minimum.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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