Jab’s Builds! (Whomp 'Em! Plumbers Don't Wear Ties! ToeJam & Earl!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Pyro! Professor Xavier! Paradox! Proteus! Paladin!)

Post by Jabroniville »

KorokoMystia wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:46 pm I do think Mega Man 11 is a well-made game, and the new stuff they've added is pretty neat, like the Double Gear functions, Mega Man actually changing phsyically when using a Robot Master's weapon (funnily enough, the attempted spiritual successor by Keiji Inafune himself, Mighty No. 9, tried the same thing beforehand, but well..it didn't go too well.) and the more fleshed out Robot Master movesets as well as each one having a Desperation Move using either a Speed or Power Gear depending on which one they have, thoguh besides that, it's basically "Yet Another Mega Man Game" (despite it being many years since the last one), since it doesn't introduce any new characters aside from the new Robot Masters, and the boss is Wily yet again. I wouldn't even have minded if they'd gone back to the "False Villain" thing, since at least that gives a different guy to fight before Wily. But hey, it's a Classic Mega Man game that actually has GOOD English voice acting! A shock, I know.
But yeah, the fact that it's been like 8-9 years since Mega Man 10, or, well..ANY Mega Man game makes it a welcome return.

You'd think they'd have run out of Robot Master concepts/names at this point, but I do think the new guys are pretty interesting.

Oh, also, I know you don't like statting vehicles, but it'd be nice to have a basic Wily Machine template or somesuch.
Sorry, I hate statting vehicles way too much, lol. I don't even know how strong to make them- about the same as a Robot Master? Unless they have the "Multiple Forms", and then they'd have more, or some weird Resurrection thing?
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Pyro! Professor Xavier! Paradox! Proteus! Paladin!)

Post by Jabroniville »

drkrash wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:34 pm Paladin is a pretty fun character, though I don't think he has a very consistent personality, as you mention, Jab. Sometimes he's *just* outside the law and sometimes he's no different than any other villain.

In either case, though, the name doesn't really fit, no matter who you interpret the term "paladin." It could have been used for a much different character. I would imagine Ares agrees with me on this point.
Is that a regular thing people know about, I wonder? I mean, I didn't know what a "Paladin" really was until long after I first read a comic featuring Paladin. The only modern context I can think of is a security company up here called "Paladin Security".

Plus I can see a total douchebag like Paladin giving himself a name that implies such virtue :).
Jabroniville
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Re: Petra

Post by Jabroniville »

Goldar wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:31 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:01 pm Image

PETRA (Full Name Unknown)



Hey! Is it just me, or did Petra copy my hair color, style and length?!? :lol:
LOL- hey, you have a pretty sexy sister, Goldar :).
Last edited by Jabroniville on Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Polaris! Pyro! Post! Professor Xavier!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Woodclaw wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:10 pm Nope, sorry this is where the line is drawn for me, Vulkan and Deadly Genesis are in the same folder of One More Day and Secret Empire, the one marked "It never fucking happened".

In spite of the fact that Petra has a pretty good codename and one of my favorite power sets ever, the simple fact that she was attached to that story automatically set off a thousand alarm bells in my mind.
haha, it's SO BAD. And it's ED BRUBAKER writing it. I just can't equate the two! It's such a needlessly stupid retcon, actively wrecking one character (Xavier), and then paying off the "Third Summers Brother" with a generic Ax Crazy Super-God Villain, which is a VERY tired cliche by now.

One interesting thing about Xavier, which I forgot to bring up... remember when the name "Xavier" was pronounced "Zavier"?

I mena, the name "Xavier" wasn't common when I was a kid, so my friends and I all called him "Charles Ecks-avier", as if you had to pronounce it like "X" at the beginning. But the only Xavier I'd ever heard of pronounced it like it had a "Z" sound. But then the media rolls around, and you see the cartoon and the movies, both of which pronounce his name like "Iggs-avier". Which is a bit weird, but no stranger than many other English names.

I suppose part of it's that the original pronunciation would make his full name sound like "Charlessavier", because the first name ends with the sound the surname starts with.

Wolverine always calling him "Chuck" was always funny, though. So derogatory, calling such a prideful man by such a casual nickname :). The time I met Chris Claremont, he consistently referred to him as "Charley", which confused the shit out of me for the first minute we talked. I kept wondering in the back of my head "which of the X-Men was named CHARLEY, again?".
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KorokoMystia
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Pyro! Professor Xavier! Paradox! Proteus! Paladin!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

Jabroniville wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:22 am Sorry, I hate statting vehicles way too much, lol. I don't even know how strong to make them- about the same as a Robot Master? Unless they have the "Multiple Forms", and then they'd have more, or some weird Resurrection thing?
An average Wily Machine would probably have toughness akin to the fortress bosses (like Yellow Devil/Mecha Dragon), and yeah, usually have multiple forms. Maybe some weird Alternate Form that's triggered upon the machine's destruction (is that legal? I have no idea. I do know that Vehicles can have Alternate Forms, though, it says in the rulebooks) to reflect the Wily Capsule ejecting, so Wily can come back for a round 2, but in a lesser (but very annoying, since the Capsules usally like to warp around and fire various blasts and Afflictions at you. It'd probaly have toughness akin to a standard robot master, but is faster) form. I dunno, it's weird.
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Goldar
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Re: Petra

Post by Goldar »

Jabroniville wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:27 am
Goldar wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:31 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:01 pm Image

PETRA (Full Name Unknown)



Hey! Is it just me, or did Petra copy my hair color, style and length?!? :lol:
LOL- hey, you have a pretty sexy sister, Goldar :).
Thanks, lol.
FuzzyBoots
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Polaris! Pyro! Post! Professor Xavier!)

Post by FuzzyBoots »

Jabroniville wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:33 am One interesting thing about Xavier, which I forgot to bring up... remember when the name "Xavier" was pronounced "Zavier"?

I mena, the name "Xavier" wasn't common when I was a kid, so my friends and I all called him "Charles Ecks-avier", as if you had to pronounce it like "X" at the beginning. But the only Xavier I'd ever heard of pronounced it like it had a "Z" sound. But then the media rolls around, and you see the cartoon and the movies, both of which pronounce his name like "Iggs-avier". Which is a bit weird, but no stranger than many other English names.
Interestingly enough, Charles's pronunciation may be closer to the original , "Xavier" originating from the Basque name, "Etxeberria".
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Woodclaw
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Polaris! Pyro! Post! Professor Xavier!)

Post by Woodclaw »

Jabroniville wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:33 am Wolverine always calling him "Chuck" was always funny, though. So derogatory, calling such a prideful man by such a casual nickname :). The time I met Chris Claremont, he consistently referred to him as "Charley", which confused the shit out of me for the first minute we talked. I kept wondering in the back of my head "which of the X-Men was named CHARLEY, again?".
I always thought that Claremont took inspiration from how Peppermint Patty always called Charlie Brown "Chuck" in the Peanuts strips.
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

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kreuzritter
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Polaris! Pyro! Post! Professor Xavier!)

Post by kreuzritter »

Woodclaw wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:07 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:33 am Wolverine always calling him "Chuck" was always funny, though. So derogatory, calling such a prideful man by such a casual nickname :). The time I met Chris Claremont, he consistently referred to him as "Charley", which confused the shit out of me for the first minute we talked. I kept wondering in the back of my head "which of the X-Men was named CHARLEY, again?".
I always thought that Claremont took inspiration from how Peppermint Patty always called Charlie Brown "Chuck" in the Peanuts strips.
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Jabroniville
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Acid Man & Bounce Man

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

ACID MAN
PL 10 (177)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA -- AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Athletics 6 (+12)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10)
Expertise (Science) 8 (+10)
Intimidation 4 (+4)
Perception 3 (+3)
Technology 3 (+3)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Defensive Attack, Equipment 10 ("Nintendo Hard" Base), Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Startle

Powers:
"Robot Master Frame"
Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]
"Robotic Frame" Protection 8 [8]

Swimming 4 [4]
"Acid Barrier" Immunity 20 (Energy Damage) Linked to Damage Aura 4 (Extras: Reaction +3) (Flaws: Limited to Every 3-4 Rounds) [32]
"Acid Lob" Blast 6 (Feats: Accurate 2) (Extras: Multiattack) (Diminished Range -1) [19]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Acid Barrier +10 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Acid Lob +12 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +8, Fortitude --, Will +4

Complications:
Vulnerable (Block Dropper)- Block Man's weapon does extra damage to Acid Man.

Total: Abilities: 34 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 21 / Powers: 95 / Defenses: 14 (177)

-Acid Man has a pretty decent design- a transparent shell with bubbling acid making up his insides. His stage looks HORRENDOUS to play through, though, as the enemies are tricky (things invincible in their frontal arc; tiny spiders that can still do damage; randomly-dropping things), the floor is occasionally covered in acid (robots with acid-droppers launch green globs of it to transform harmless liquid into painful acid), and then OH MY GOD THE SPIKES. Without the "Speed Gear" to slow down your jumps, you're basically helpless against these things. Some of the rooms featuring moving platforms AND Spikes (which, remember, insta-kill Mega Man). Acid Man himself sports an Acid Barrier (blocking your Mega Buster's shots), Acid Globs (the parabolic arc makes them extra-hard to avoid), and an "Arena-Based Attack" that involves him splashing through the acid underneath his stage, sending up a very large, hard-to-dodge wave (basically an Area Attack).

-When you defeat him, you get his Acid Barrier- one of the "Force Field" weapons, but working a bit differently (it stops if you get hit by an enemy, only stopping blasts). Using the Power Gear on it allows you an Aura Damage, and you can also shoot Acid Globs.

Bestows the:
"Acid Barrier" Immunity 20 (Energy Damage) (Flaws: Fades, Drops If Physically Hit) Linked to Acid Aura 4 (Flaws: Source- Power Gear, Fades) Linked Blast 6 (Extras: Multiattack) (Diminished Range -1) (32 points)

Image

BOUNCE MAN (aka Rubber Man- in Japan)
PL 10 (123)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA -- AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Athletics 6 (+12)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 4 (+12)
Expertise (Fitness Instructor) 8 (+8)
Intimidation 4 (+5)
Perception 3 (+3)
Technology 3 (+3)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Defensive Attack, Equipment 10 ("Nintendo Hard" Base), Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 4, Startle

Powers:
"Robot Master Frame"
Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]
"Robotic Frame" Protection 7 [7]

Growth 2 (Str & Toughness +2, +2 Mass, +1 Intimidation, -1 Dodge/Parry, -2 Stealth) -- (10 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [5]
Elongation 2 (Flaws: Limited to Limbs) [2]

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +9, Fortitude --, Will +4

Complications:
Vulnerable (Pile Driver)- Impact Man's weapon does extra damage to Bounce Man.

Total: Abilities: 30 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 19 / Powers: 46 / Defenses: 14 (123)

-Bounce Man's stage is a silly, "child's fantasy" kind of base, with bouncy music and bright colors, as well as comical and FUN-LOOKING stage effects like bouncy floors and stuff that help you move around rapidly. However, the latter parts look VERY tricky and punishing, as you have to figure out the exact ways to use the stage to get around- a LOT of precision jumping is required. Bounce Man himself is one of the more comical Robot Masters, being extremely large and rounded, with extendable limbs and big dark holes with red dots for eyes. It makes him a combination of intimidating and childish that actually works. Bounce Man is, of course, prone to bouncing, bounding all over his stage at predictable (but fast) angles- the Speed Gear only makes this worse. He's not hard to hit, though, being VERY large. He's cheaper on points than most Robot Masters, because he has no ranged weapons- he's purely a physical fighter.

-Pile Driver does damage to him, as you might expect from being a sharp object and him being bouncy and round, HOWEVER, this actually makes the fight MORE difficult at points, because it breaks him apart. The weapon you get from him, Bounce Ball, is EXTREMELY effective, more or less filling the stage with bouncy balls that do damage- often Multiattack-style- to every enemy on screen. I mean, they bounce off of EVERYTHING.

Bestows the:
"Bounce Ball" Damage 6 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (18 points)
  • AE: "Charged Shot" Damage 8 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (Flaws: Requires Full-Round Charge) (16)
Jabroniville
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Impact Man & Torch Man

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

IMPACT MAN (aka Pile Man- in Japan)
PL 10 (143)
STRENGTH
8 STAMINA -- AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Athletics 6 (+12)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 4 (+12)
Expertise (Construction) 8 (+8)
Intimidation 4 (+5)
Perception 3 (+3)
Technology 3 (+3)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Defensive Attack, Equipment 10 ("Nintendo Hard" Base), Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 4, Startle

Powers:
"Robot Master Frame"
Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]
"Robotic Frame" Protection 7 [7]

Growth 2 (Str & Toughness +2, +2 Mass, +1 Intimidation, -1 Dodge/Parry, -2 Stealth) -- (10 feet) (Feats: Innate) (Extras: Permanent +0) [5]
Elongation 2 (Flaws: Limited to Limbs) [2]

"Ground Pound" Affliction 6 (Athletics; Hindered & Vulnerable/Immobile & Defenseless) (Extras: Extra Condition, Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Distracting, Limited Degree, Instant Recovery) (11) -- [12]
  • AE: "Maximum Impact!" Strength-Damage +2 (Extras: Penetrating 8) (Inaccurate -1) (9)
"Impact Brothers Form" Morph 1 (Feats: Metamorph) (Blast 8, Accurate 2) (6) -- [7]
  • AE: "Large Jackhammer Form" Morph 1 (5)
Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Maximum Impact +10 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +9 (DC 19), Toughness +9, Fortitude --, Will +4

Complications:
Vulnerable (Acid Barrier/Shot)- Acid Man's weapon does extra damage to Impact Man.

Total: Abilities: 30 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 19 / Powers: 65 / Defenses: 14 (143)

-LOL Impact Man is just Optimus Prime with a different head and cool pile drivers as weapons. His level seems pretty easy at first, but then these INSANELY fast rockets start at you- they warn you of the direction ahead of time, and start off really easy... but then they slowly pick up when you enter one of those "tall room full of moving platforms" that of course have DOZENS of these things coming at you, so even pros are hard-pressed to avoid getting knocked off right back to where they started. Impact Man himself has a "Charge"-based move, where he dashes forward with those spikes for hands. It's pretty simple (Ground Pound & Strikes, essentially), but then he transforms into a three-pronged jackhammer, then a GIANT jackhammer (same effective stats, but he's REALLY big), and finally splits apart, revealing that HE's the rockets that've been attacking you all stage. However, after this, he's back to normal, making it a quickie Morph.

-Beating Impact Man nets you the Pile Driver, one of VERY few "Melee Weapon" Robot Master powers in the series- it turns Mega Man into a PL 9 melee attacker (+10 Accuracy, +8 Damage), which is quite strange for this game.

Bestows the:
"Pile Driver" Strength-Damage +7 (Feats: Accurate) (Extras: Penetrating 8) Linked to Speed 2 (9 mph) (18)

Image

TORCH MAN
PL 10 (170)
STRENGTH
6 STAMINA -- AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 10 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Athletics 6 (+12)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+12)
Expertise (Survival) 8 (+8)
Intimidation 4 (+4)
Perception 3 (+3)
Technology 3 (+3)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Defensive Attack, Equipment 10 ("Nintendo Hard" Base), Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 6, Startle

Powers:
"Robot Master Frame"
Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
Leaping 2 (30 feet) [2]
"Robotic Frame" Protection 8 [8]

Immunity 5 (Fire Damage) [5]
"Blazing Torch" Fire Blast 10 (Feats: Accurate 2) (22) -- [23]
  • AE: "Fire Kick" Damage 10 (10)
"True Power!" Flame Aura 4 [16]

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+6 Damage, DC 21)
Fire Aura +10 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Flame Kick +10 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Blazing Torch +12 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Initiative +8

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +8, Fortitude --, Will +4

Complications:
Vulnerable (Tundra Storm)- Tundra Man's weapon does extra damage to Torch Man.

Total: Abilities: 38 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 21 / Powers: 84 / Defenses: 14 (170)

-Like the "Ice Robot", pretty much every single Mega Man game is under contractual obligation to feature a "Fire Robot"- in this case, Torch Man isn't a bad example, having banded limbs and giant shoulder pads that constantly act like furnaces of flame. His stage is pretty simple to start with, and actually takes place in the dark outdoors, where the "torches" are robo-owls and stuff like that (killing them darkens the screen)- numerous enemies spout fire, and there's even a WALL OF FLAME at a few points, really showcasing how amazing graphics have gotten (it's more noticeable on a 2D platformer like this one, because you can more easily compare it to the old-school sprites we're used to). The Wall gets EXTREMELY tough later on, as there are multiple paths and some of those notorious "Shielded" enemies that take some time to bring down. In the YouTube comments, I see someone point out that Tundra Storm can actually FREEZE the wall, which is a great touch. Though you're gonna want to use it against Torch Man, too.

-Torch Man himself fights more like Ken & Ryu than your typical Robot Master, throwing out fire-assisted kicks as well as a projectile attack. Using his Power Gear, he can generate a Flame Aura, too, but Tundra Storm finishes him quickly, given it can stop both his attacks AND cover most of the screen. He's apparently a former fire-safety instructor who practices the martial arts in his spare time, which is why he fights the way he does. The "Blazing Torch" weapon you get from him kind of sucks, though, as it launches a fireball into a parabolic arc, then you can hit a button to shoot it diagonally. I can't imagine too many great uses for that.

Bestows the:
"Blazing Torch" Blast 8 (16 points)
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Goldar
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Polaris! Pyro! Post! Professor Xavier!)

Post by Goldar »

Woodclaw wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:07 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:33 am Wolverine always calling him "Chuck" was always funny, though. So derogatory, calling such a prideful man by such a casual nickname :). The time I met Chris Claremont, he consistently referred to him as "Charley", which confused the shit out of me for the first minute we talked. I kept wondering in the back of my head "which of the X-Men was named CHARLEY, again?".
I always thought that Claremont took inspiration from how Peppermint Patty always called Charlie Brown "Chuck" in the Peanuts strips.
Yes, I believe this to be the case.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24792
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

This F*ckin' Guy

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

THIS F*CKIN' ASSHOLE (aka Sniper Joe)
Role:
Standing On the Ledge Like A Little Bitch
PL 7 (72)
STRENGTH
4 STAMINA -- AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 4 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+5)
Perception 3 (+3)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Equipment 1 (Shield), Favored Environment (The Edge of Platforms), Improved Initiative, Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"Robot Frame"
Immunity 30 (Fortitude Effects) [30]
"Robotic Frame" Protection 4 [4]
"Blaster" Blast 5 [10]

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Blaster +8 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +6

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (+10 Shield, DC 18-20), Parry +6 (+8 Shield, DC 16-18), Toughness +4, Fortitude --, Will +2

Complications:
None

Total: Abilities: 6 / Skills: 4--2 / Advantages: 10 / Powers: 44 / Defenses: 10 (72)

-THIS f*ckin' guy... Sniper Joe is one of the most annoying recurring Mooks in the Mega Man universe. While a guy who just hides behind a shield and occasionally fires out a blast isn't exactly terrifying, it's the WAY he's used that makes him a nuisance. See, Sniper Joe is consistently placed right at the edge of a platform, requiring you to have to JUMP in order to shoot him. Which takes a lot more timing. Oh, and every time he drops the shield, he IMMEDIATELY fires out an energy blast, which can knock you back. So these guys are actually extremely tactical, perilous threats, nearly always doing damage to amateurs unless
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KorokoMystia
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Professor X! Proteus! Paladin! Mega Man 11!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

Oh, cool! I was hoping for some builds for a couple of the iconic mooks, or at least the Sniper Joes and Mets. Of course, the Sniper Joes and the Mets are the most annoying because of how defensive they are. Like, there are very few weapons that can actually kill the Mets while they're shielded, I think. I swear these assholes have so many different variants over the course of the games, too. From Wily's point of view, it makes sense to iterate and upgrade them considering how successful (and annoying) they are.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds (Professor X! Proteus! Paladin! Mega Man 11!)

Post by Jabroniville »

So yeah, that's the Mega Man 11 set! It's interesting to re-visit the Mega Man stuff, a year after I translated the lot of them into 3e (a REALLY arduous process, actually- mostly boring Template Alterations). I guess every time a game updates I'm gonna have to post new builds- I will probably end up building Ashe from Overwatch as soon as they post ANOTHER new character, and I think there'll be one or two newbies from Street Fighter V eventually.

It's interesting- DLC is now considered the scourge of Fighting Games, as now ridiculously-incomplete games are being released, with the promises of "updates"- it's basically put a nail in SFV and Killer Instinct, giving both games a negative reputation. And now Tekken 7 is slowly releasing other characters (though at least had a larger roster to start with).
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