Jab’s Builds! (Miss Piggy! The Swedish Chef! Sweetums! Gonzo!)

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Giganta! Batman! Zatanna! Green Arrow! Black Canary!)

Post by Jack of Spades »

I'm with Ares. My take on Dinah puts her a half-PL above Batman (and he's stronger), on par with Iron Fist and Captain America (who also out-muscles her) and a notch above Wildcat. I might steal the chi-based Canary Cry – good idea!
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Giganta! Batman! Zatanna! Green Arrow! Black Canary!)

Post by Ares »

Jack of Spades wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 2:33 pm I'm with Ares. My take on Dinah puts her a half-PL above Batman (and he's stronger), on par with Iron Fist and Captain America (who also out-muscles her) and a notch above Wildcat. I might steal the chi-based Canary Cry – good idea!
Thanks! The chi-technique idea just works more for me given her martial arts background and the push she later received as one of the top martial artists in the DCU. Originally her Canary Cry was a result of her very weird Silver Age origin (there's a reason why they simplified her as just being the daughter of WWII hero Black Canary), and even today it's just a matter of "she was born with it". Making it something she earned via training is cooler, IMO.

EDIT

I haven't gone on this rant in a while, so I'll indulge myself a little.

I know it DOES raise the issue of "why doesn't Batman know Chi Techniques", to which I say: because chi training takes more time than he was willing to invest.

To me, there's a few of "tiers" of martial arts when it comes to fiction.

Realistic: Martial Arts that make an effort to be realistic. They have all of the benefits and limitations of what you can achieve in the real world.

Action Hero: Martial Arts that resemble what you see in your average action movie. Martial Artists are capable of exaggerated feats of skill and ability, capable of extraordinary acrobatics, taking on multiple opponents, enduring a great deal of punishment, etc.

Super Hero: Martial Arts that resemble what you see from exceptionally skilled superheroes. This is where Martial Arts is effectively a superpower, allowing someone to dodge bullets, perform insane acrobatics, take on small armies of opponents, survive ridiculous punishment, take on superhuman opponents, and perform martial arts feats like pressure point/nerve cluster strikes, catching arrows, etc.

Low Wuxia: Martial Arts that resemble some fighting games, anime and Chinese cinema, as well as some superhero comics. Chi is now a force that can actually benefit the wielder, effectively giving the martial artist superpowers. In this case, the hero is likely to know a small handful of really impressive techniques and have a larger body of smaller but useful techniques. This is where you get into the Hadoken / Shoryuken visible chi techniques, the various Sinanju Techniques of the Destroyer series, the martial arts skills of "lower" wire-fu films, etc.

High Wuxia: Martial Arts that resemble ancient mythology, higher end anime / video games and exceptional Chinese Cinema. At this point, martial arts can include everything from "Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber" to "Journey to the West", as well as a lot of Chinese comics such as the Jademan line. Martial Arts can not only make someone a dangerous superhuman foe, but can lead to mythological levels of power. Techniques can include literal immortality, shapeshifting, teleportation, travel to other realms, transforming into a kaiju, etc.

That covers a wide range of fiction, though there is some overlap. It's not uncommon for the best fighters of a setting to be one "tier" above what is normal for the rest of the setting. Iron Fist operates at a Low Wuxia level (sometimes a High Wuxia level) in a Super Hero level setting. Often times Jackie Chan or Jet Li will function at a Super Hero level in a world of Action Hero fighters. That sort of thing.

In a superhero setting, I'm actually okay with all levels of the martial arts being represented.

Realistic Martial Arts are for the soldiers, cops, crooks and nameless mooks of the setting.

Action Hero Martial Arts are for the "trained but unfocused" heroes and villains. Your Nick Fury types, or the Avengers who have "Been trained by Captain America".

Super Hero Martial Arts are for the guys like Batman, Captain America, Nightwing, Black Widow and the like, the normal humans with extraordinary training whose abilities are mostly just very exaggerated things normal people can do.

Low Wuxia Martial Arts are for the dedicated superhero-level martial artists, the folks like Lady Shiva, Shang Chi, Black Canary and the like who would fit right into a Street Fighter tournament. At this point, training in the martial arts is equivalent to being trained in magic, albiet more in the John Constantine level of magic. Guys like Captain America and Batman don't know this level of martial arts because the training required is the equivalent of the training Bruce and Steve did to become "The World's Greatest Vigilante" and "The World's Greatest Soldier". Batman's options were either learning the skills to be a detective/ninja/gadgeteer, or he could have learned how to do a sonic scream and a few other tricks. Very GOOD tricks, mind you, but not as suited to what Bruce wanted to do.

High Wuxia gets into the higher end Iron Fist portrayals, where the martial arts can put you on an even level with folks like Iron Man or Dr. Strange. This requires even more of a time investment and harsh training, but the pay off is that you're a hero with a very flexible ability set and great potential for power.

In essence, "Why doesn't Bruce have Chi Techniques" is the same reason why he doesn't know Magic. It's just a skill set that would have required more time than he was willing to invest and not have been 100% compatible with what his goal was.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Giganta! Batman! Zatanna! Green Arrow! Black Canary!)

Post by Ares »

Now onto something a bit more relevant to the topic at hand . . .


Rocket Red: The Rocket Reds were kind of an interesting concept to me. Since DC Comics was based in the US, most superheroes tended to be American, though we slowly saw more international diversity during the mid-to-late 70s and 80s. The Rocket Reds were an easy way to add more Russian heroes without having several new Russian teams just emerge from nowhere (though a few of those did as well). The idea of Russia deciding "We can't wait for Superhero Origins to happen here naturally, so we're just going to outfit our best soldiers in Iron Man-style power armor" was a novel one, though it made it clear what role the Reds would play in the DCU. Since they were a bunch of guys in identical armor who served Russia, they would primarily be antagonist for America's heroes, just powerful enough to fight, not unique enough to really care about.

JLI thankfully changed that by putting a Rocket Red on the League, eventually giving him a unique suit of armor using Apocalypse technology, and giving Dmitri an actual personality and backstory, that of a cheerful family man. These days Rocket Red would work best as a single hero outfitted in the best armor Russia can build, being more War Machine than Iron Man. Rocket Red is primarily a soldier with a truck load of weapons, rather than the more versatile "science suit" Tony sports.


Wonder Woman: I've already done my rant on Diana, but I wanted to touch on what Jab mentioned about every writer wanting to put their unique stamp on her. Folks like Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Captain America and Captain Marvel (Billy) all have a very iconic personality, and if you deviate too far from that personality you frequently get fan backlash (see the Man of Steel/Batman v. Superman films, Hydra-Cap, Nu-Shazam, One More Day, etc.).

With Wonder Woman, she tends to have more of an iconic origin and philosophy than a true personality. Clark, Bruce, Peter, Steve and Billy all had personalities that evolved a bit over time until they settled into their most well known portrayals, Wonder Woman keeps getting re-invented by every creative team that get their hands on here. While the "Warrior of Peace" message stays true, writers can't decide if she's calm and controlled, hotblooded and passionate, naive, wise, funny, serious, etc. Even if I took a stab at making a "best of" version of her, that would wind up being a reinvention in and of itself! Basically, it's like she's waiting for an iconic portrayal that everyone will stick with, only odds are the next writer will just put their own spin on her anyway.

It's funny how Diana's personality has the same problem as Donna Troy's origin, while Donna has a consistent personality.


Hawk & Dove: I've said it before and I'll say it again, Hawk and Dove are possibly the clearest example of a good concept ruined by the writer's own biases. The only way the concept works is if you have someone who can treat both of them fairly and play off of their conflicting personalities and beliefs rather than strawman one to make the other look more "correct". The whole point should be showing how people can disagree on various matters and not only work together, but be more effective because of it.

I'll also admit, I actually kind of prefer keeping the brother dynamic rather than swapping Don out for Dawn. You rarely see superhero siblings where one is a supervillain. Though part of me wants to keep Dawn as a hero as well, so it's an issue either way.


Vibe: Vibe's kind of a hilarious case of a diversity push. His original creation is barely one step up from Apache Chief, to the point where he was one of the characters permanently killed off to make room for the Legends series. Then the Nu-52 tried to reinvent him as this Multiversal Protector, someone who can feel the vibrations of the multiverse and it was his job to protect the prime DC reality from other dimensional threats. Ironically, he got the best use over on the live-action Flash TV series, which changed Vibe from a street smart Latino breakdancer to a science geek who came up with some unique uses for his abilities.

Honestly, this is one time where I'd just go with the TV Flash version. It's trading one sterotype for another, but at least he's no longer an outdated racial sterotype.

As a side-note, I remember being annoyed when I read about the Nu-52 Vibe series. One thing I constantly hear about from certain DC Comics fans and staffers is that "it's hard to give Captain Marvel a purpose in the DCU, so that's why we're focusing on making him more of a Magic Hero". That always just annoyed the heck out of me because the whole point of Captain Marvel was that he could have any kind of superhero adventures. This week he's battling a time traveling Dr. Sivana. Next week he's fighting a haunted suit of armor. Two weeks from now he's fighting Cthulhu. Week after that it's Mr. Mind's turn.

But if they actually read any of his older stories, they'd know that "defending Earth from threats from other dimensions" is something HE USE TO ACTUALLY DO! The Rock of Eternity sat in the center of Time and Space, which included all dimensions at all time. And since his powers came from outside of Time and Space, in some stories it made anyone with Shazam powers immune to changes in the timeline. So Billy, Mary and Freddy often had to deal with Time Travelers, Inter-dimensional Invaders, Dark Gods, Lovecraftian Horrors, etc. Basically, part of Billy's job description was doing what they wanted Vibe to do, and then also do what Booster Gold's solo book had been about. There was plenty for Billy to do, but no, DC just can't figure out what his role in the setting is. :roll:

Dr. Light II: Dr. Light always struck me as funny because of several factors. Her being a heroic legacy to the original Dr. Light was definitely one of them, as it made little sense. Yes, she was a scientist. Yes, her powers were based on light. And yes, the outfit looked better on her. But still, Dr. Light? Who the heck is Dr. Light to her? And she had to know who he was because she was wearing his outfit! To this day I feel she should have been a legacy to little known hero Sunburst. He was Japanese, he died during the Crisis saving his country, and he helped advise her after Supergirl's death. And honestly, you'd really just need to change some colors around and its pretty much the same outfit.

The other thing was Dr. Light's personality. As Jab mentioned, she was intentionally made into an abrasive woman to counter the Japanese stereotype, but later when she appeared in Justice League Europe, her personality was changed to BE the stereotype! She went from someone who would mouth off at Batman to being practically meek and submissive. And she blamed her earlier attitude on DIET SODA, saying that the chemicals would essentially cause superheroines to act more short-tempered and aggressive. So they were basically saying that Diet Soda makes super-women "bitchty". It was weird. Way better that they gave her something more like her original personality to add some conflict within the League.


The Atom: Ray to me should be someone more like Reed Richards, where his superpower is almost secondary to his usefulness as a scientist. His various solo-series have often showed how useful the ability to alter your size and mass can be to a person in combat, as the Atom's late 80s/early 90s run had him as a formidable and acrobatic fighter. Still, Ray should at his heart be a scientist and explorer, and the kind of snarky personality they gave him in JLU fit well.

Plus, you know, he got to ride in Wonder Woman's cleavage. And I love that she could have put him ANYWHERE. In her hair, on her belt, but she stuck him in her cleavage. That's practically a come on, and Ray should have asked Diana out after.


Metamorpho: Metamorpho is one of those guys with a neat powerset, a decent personality (that of basically Ben Grimm, but as an adventuring archeologist), but does need at least a little bit of a looks upgrade. The 90s tried a bit too hard (leading to an even uglier design), but overall he's a solid team-book character. He's someone I want to give a re-design shot at to see if I can make it work.

Also, Metamorpho is a little different from the usual "ends in O" heroes, since his name isn't a normal English word with an "O" added to the end, but the word "Metamorphosis" with the "sis" removed.


Giganta: Giganta is a testament to Jennifer Hale's voice acting talent. She's best known for her "tough women" voice for folks like Carol Danvers and Commander Shepard, but Giganta sounds positively "girly" and adorable. Honestly, the contrast of her being this very feminine woman who can become a gigantic powerhouse is fun, and way more interesting than her more generic "bitchy evil scientist" attitude in the comics.

And yes, she's like a whole forum's worth of fetishes all on her own.

Image


Batman: It was interesting seeing how far Batman had progressed since the early days of Batman: TAS. The scene where Bruce almost single handedly takes out the Injustice Gang is a far cry from the guy who lost a fight to a robot double.

Though I've said it before, they played up the "anti-social/part-timer" aspect a bit much. I loved how The Batman pointed out that Bruce is actually a very solid team-player, he actually develops his own group to help him out, he works well with them, etc. If anything, he would be encouraging the League to work better as a unit.

I also found the Batman/Wonder Woman relationship very cute, and it made some sense here. They made a cute couple. Unfortunately it got dropped by Season 2 of JLU.


Zatanna: It's honestly amazing what a specific fetish Paul Dini has and how Zatanna basically fits it to a "T", to the point that he basically married a real-life Zatanna. The animators certainly enjoyed drawing her. When I was younger I wanted to try and give Zatanna back her old Justice League costume with the wide sleeves, but then puberty set in and I realized her fishnet and tux outfit was perfect.

Her power as written in the comics is just ridiculous, which is why I nerf it hard in my own settings. I basically treat her style of spellcasting as the equivalent of magic in the Dresden Files setting. There, magic words basically exist as degree of separation from a Wizard's magic and their mind. Wizard's choose a secondary language to cast spells rather than the language they "think" in, so that they don't accidentally call forth their magic using normal language. So when Harry uses "Fuego" to cast a fire spell, it's so that he doesn't accidentally conjure flame every time he says the word "fire".

Zatanna would be much the same, with the backwards casting being her own take on magic words, with the additional bonus of making people stop for a moment to try and figure out what she said.


Green Arrow & Black Canary: Not much to say about Ollie and Dinah that I haven't already said. To me, they're one of DC's power couples that needs to stick together. I do like how the best comics writers have fun with Ollie, since even though many of them have similar political leanings, they tend to exaggerate his own to entertaining levels. He also had a fun sense of humor and played off well with other heroes.

As for Dinah, the animators clearly enjoyed animating every curve on her, and I think the audience appreciated their efforts.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Giganta! Batman! Zatanna! Green Arrow! Black Canary!)

Post by JDRook »

Ares wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:52 pm Plus, you know, he got to ride in Wonder Woman's cleavage. And I love that she could have put him ANYWHERE. In her hair, on her belt, but she stuck him in her cleavage. That's practically a come on, and Ray should have asked Diana out after.
Respectfully disagree. I don't have 24/7 ready-access to super-cleavage, but from my observations it's much more useful pocket than most men might think, and WW's outfit is not big on pocket-space unlike say Black Canary's jacket or Huntress's belt o' pouches, so she'd probably use it relatively often, if out of frame. While Ray may have looked comfy nestled in there, I'm thinking he was probably right next to Wondy's League access card and maybe the jet's keys.

In conclusion: not a come-on, just a practical reflex during a world-threatening fight.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Giganta! Batman! Zatanna! Green Arrow! Black Canary!)

Post by Ken »

JDRook wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:32 pmWhile Ray may have looked comfy nestled in there
Actually, I kind of thought he was uncomfortable in there, what with the blood flow making his tights fit funny and all.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Giganta! Batman! Zatanna! Green Arrow! Black Canary!)

Post by Jabroniville »

JDRook wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:32 pm
Ares wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:52 pm Plus, you know, he got to ride in Wonder Woman's cleavage. And I love that she could have put him ANYWHERE. In her hair, on her belt, but she stuck him in her cleavage. That's practically a come on, and Ray should have asked Diana out after.
Respectfully disagree. I don't have 24/7 ready-access to super-cleavage, but from my observations it's much more useful pocket than most men might think, and WW's outfit is not big on pocket-space unlike say Black Canary's jacket or Huntress's belt o' pouches, so she'd probably use it relatively often, if out of frame. While Ray may have looked comfy nestled in there, I'm thinking he was probably right next to Wondy's League access card and maybe the jet's keys.

In conclusion: not a come-on, just a practical reflex during a world-threatening fight.
I know a lot of chesty dames (okay, mostly old ladies with more, uh, "pocket space" under there) who keep wallets around their soft lady-parts. It's probably safer than you'd think, and less likely to crush a tiny man for whom EVERY woman is a giantess...

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Giganta! Batman! Zatanna! Green Arrow! Black Canary!)

Post by Jack of Spades »

JDRook wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:32 pm Respectfully disagree. I don't have 24/7 ready-access to super-cleavage, but from my observations it's much more useful pocket than most men might think, and WW's outfit is not big on pocket-space unlike say Black Canary's jacket or Huntress's belt o' pouches, so she'd probably use it relatively often, if out of frame. While Ray may have looked comfy nestled in there, I'm thinking he was probably right next to Wondy's League access card and maybe the jet's keys.
Which immediately made me visualize...
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Re: Star Sapphire

Post by HalloweenJack »

Jabroniville wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:55 am
About the Performer: A very pretty woman, Olivia D'Abo got a lot of "Hot Young Girl" roles in her 20s, particularly "The Wonder Years" (playing the older sister of future Hawk & Dove, Jason Hervey & Fred Savage). She played a bratty teenage "Q" in a "Star Trek: TNG" episode (getting nerds' pants all aflutter in the process). Most of her other roles have been bit parts or supporting roles, jumping around TV and the movies, which usually led her to play "Miss Fanservice" type naked girls. She's played a LOT of animated characters for someone who's very attractive, being able to pull off much younger roles well into her forties (which is why she's in animation, probably- she's too old for her old roles). Her characters include Ten in "Batman Beyond", Morgaine Le Fey & Star Sapphire in "JLU", Jane in Disney's "Legend of Tarzan" cartoon series, and more.
she'll always be Princess Jenna in Conan the Destroyer to me. I'll fight anyone over that movie.
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Wildcat

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

WILDCAT (Ted Grant)
Created By:
Bill Finger & Irwin Hasen
First Appearance: Sensation Comics #1 (Jan. 1942)
Role: Bad-Ass Senior, The Elder Statesman, Grouchy Old Guy
Voice Actor: Dennis Farina
Finest Moment: Beat the ever-loving PISS out of Green Arrow
PL 10 (121)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 4 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 2 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Acrobatics 4 (+8)
Athletics 6 (+9)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 7 (+15)
Deception 5 (+7)
Expertise (Streetwise) 2 (+3)
Insight 2 (+4)
Intimidation 7 (+9)
Perception 4 (+6)
Stealth 2 (+6)
Vehicles 2 (+4)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, All-Out Attack, Benefit (Ambidexterity), Diehard, Fast Grab, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 3, Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative, Improved Hold, Improved Trip, Power Attack, Prone Fighting, Ranged Attack 2

Powers:
"Immense Hitting Power" Enhanced Strength 1 (Flaws: Limited to Punching Guys in the @#$!ing Face) [1]

Offense:
Unarmed +15 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +11 (DC 21), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +4, Fortitude +7, Will +7

Complications:
Motivation (Being Useful)- Ted's best days are behind him, leading to constant attempts to recapture a feeling of importance. Pent-up aggression manifests itself in a brutal fighting style, and a desire to beat down villains, no matter the cost.

Total: Abilities: 52 / Skills: 66--33 / Advantages: 16 / Powers: 1 / Defenses: 19 (121)

-In the comics, Wildcat went from a lame-duck knock-off of Batman into a "filler" JSA member, into one of the more fun characters on the revamped JSA series, featuring as the gruff old mentor of the team- his bluntness and rudeness playing off well against polite Jay Garrick and the responsible Alan Scott. Ted kind of being... sentimental while trying NOT to be sentimental made him a really great character overall. So Justice League Unlimited used him very well, albeit for only one episode.

-Ted only has a one-shot appearance on the show, but it's a helluva one, fighting for Roulette in her "Meta-Brawls", beating the snot out of super-villains in an attempt to recapture the time when he was useful. An old warhorse, he now gets handed "easy" assignments by J'onn, and gets sent to train new heroes. When Black Canary, a former trainee of his, comes to snap him out of it, she drags Green Arrow along, and Ollie (somewhat jealous of the attention Dinah pays to Ted, though a disgusted Canary responds "Ted is like a FATHER to me!"), ends up fighting Wildcat in the arena... and gets the CRAP beaten out of him, in possible the single most-brutal fight in the entire series. I mean JESUS, Ted just beat him to an absolute pulp in there. Of course, thanks to some quick-thinking (Ollie fakes his death, snapping Ted out of his rage and making him realize the cost of brutality), Ted ended up realizing the error of his ways, and went back to being a good ol' Leaguer following some talks with J'onn.

-Ted is a positively lethal combatant, making PL 9.5 (actually .5 higher than I'd make his ACTUAL DC iteration). He would be a near-insurmountable challenge for Green Arrow or The Question, and probably beat either Huntress or Canary without their gear. This guy was INTENSE, and a high-powered brawler. I don't think ANY other human-level character hit with his level of power.

About the Performer: Dennis Farina was a character actor who got into the business very late- he was a Chicago police officer for eighteen years. His career led him to develop a natural "cop talk", cynical attitude, so he played a lot of roles like that. His movie career is more minor, appearing in "Saving Private Ryan", "Get Shorty", and other pictures. He replaced Jerry Orbach on "Law & Order" for a couple of seasons, using his hard-nosed voice to positive effect. He died of lung cancer in 2013.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Giganta! Batman! Zatanna! Green Arrow! Black Canary!)

Post by KorokoMystia »

Is he really a knockoff when he shares one of Batman's creators? ..Though it is certianly possible to rip yourself off, like when Rob Liefeld made the same character something like 50 times.
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The Huntress

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image

HUNTRESS (Helena Bertinelli)
Created By:
Joey Cavalieri & Joe Staton
First Appearance: Huntress #1 (April 1989)
Role: Ensemble Darkhorse, Grim Urban Vigilante, Snarky Girl
Voice Actor: Amy Acker
Finest Moment: Deciding not to kill Steven Madragora... and instead dropped a ton of debris on him.
PL 9 (173)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 6
FIGHTING 13 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 9 (+15)
Athletics 8 (+10)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+15)
Deception 6 (+9)
Expertise (Streetwise) 10 (+12)
Expertise (Computers) 4 (+6)
Insight 4 (+7)
Intimidation 5 (+8)
Investigation 6 (+9)
Perception 6 (+9)
Persuasion 2 (+5)
Sleight of Hand 2 (+6)
Stealth 6 (+12)
Technology 2 (+4)
Vehicles 2 (+6)

Advantages:
Agile Feint, Beginner's Luck, Benefit (League Member), Daze (Intimidation), Defensive Attack, Diehard, Equipment 4, Evasion 2, Fast Grab, Follow-Up Strike, Grab Finesse, Great Endurance, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Unarmed) 2, Improved Critical (Crossbow) 2, Improved Defense, Improved Initiative, Improved Smash, Improved Trip, Jack-of-All-Trades, Last Stand, Move-By Action, Power Attack, Precise Attack 2 (Ranged/Cover, Close/Concealment), Quick Draw, Ranged Attack 9, Seize Initiative, Startle, Takedown, Tracking, Uncanny Dodge

Equipment:
"Crossbow" Blast 5 (Extras: Multiattack) (15)
"Big-Ass Stick" Strength-Damage +2 (Feats: Reach, Split) (4)

Offense:
Unarmed +15 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Stick +11 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Crossbow +13 (+5 Ranged Damage, DC 20)
Initiative +10

Defenses:
Dodge +14 (DC 24), Parry +14 (DC 24), Toughness +3, Fortitude +6, Will +7

Complications:
Reputation (Loose Cannon, Killer)- Huntress made her debut attempting to murder Steven Mandragora, the man who killed her parents.
Relationship (The Question)
Rivalry (Black Canary)

Total: Abilities: 72 / Skills: 74--37 / Advantages: 46 / Powers: 0 / Defenses: 18 (173)

-Haha-ha, oh Huntress. You kicked ASS in JLU. She's arguably even better than Comic Book Huntress, who often got mixed up in a few too many pies to really come into her own. I think it's all because of The Question. She became this sarcastic little bitch who mocked everyone around her and was a total loose cannon, but she was somewhat grounded by caring for the weirdo. And they redeemed her, which Bat-books seem to have a problem doing- they failed to keep her push going after her JLA run, and she was the least-used of the Big Three in Birds of Prey. Huntress and Power-Girl was one of the weakest "New 52" books I regularly collected (even with George Perez on the early issues), and honestly just went nowhere fast as an obvious bottom-tier book. NuDCU turning her into a different person (from what I can see) isn't helping.

-This Huntress, however, was crazy, nutty and cool, and rather bad-ass, regularly kicking the crap out of a dozen mooks at a time. Her thing where she tried to execute the man who killed her parents emphasized her "Loose Cannon Vigilante" thing MUCH better than the somewhat generic "I fight all criminals after my parents were murdered, and sometimes think it's okay to kill them" thing- it made it PERSONAL. And this got her kicked out of the League by a fairly angry J'onn, who was FURIOUS that she used League Technology (ie. the Teleporters and such) to try and pull the hit. And being kicked out just made her even MORE of a Loose Cannon, as she ropes the Question into helping her investigation, which soon sets Black Canary and Green Arrow against them, causing even MORE inter-League squabbling. And ultimately, "Q" convinces her NOT to execute her foe (who has a child of his own), then shyly confesses his crush on her... at which point she unrealistically drags him off to bone him ("EW" sez Canary).

-The character doesn't show up AS much later on, but still gets some play during Girl Fight when Roulette kidnaps various League women into doing battle in "Meta-Brawl 2.0". She's later just a tag-along to the Question, who steals a lot of scenes by himself. She never re-joins the League, but several of them have a grudging respect for her.

-The Huntress is a highly-skilled PL 9, but quite expensive, as befits a Skillmonkey with high-level martial arts skills. She's part-Skillmonkey/part-Dexmonkey, being a super-fast, super-accurate butt-kicker who can modifty many of her caps at will, and is REALLY REALLY good with that Crossbow (though why it's considered definitely-fatal to Mandragora when the CANARY CRY that can wreck buildings just tore up his clothing a bit is beyond me), having about half a dozen Advantages making it her best attack. Without it, she's a mere PL 8 melee fighter, but she's still good enough to hold her own against Black Canary in a fist-fight.

About the Performer: Amy Acker is another "Whedon Star", performing as Winifred "Fred" Burkle on "Angel" for four seasons, which turned her into a beloved Nerd Icon. Like a lot of those actors, she's struggled to find consistent roles since then, as the vast majority of her catalogue is one-offs. However, she was on "Person of Interest" for three years in a main role, and was on "The Gifted" for two years before it was cancelled. So she still gets a bit of work, being a bit of a cutie with a fanbase behind her, but has hit the usual "40-year old actress" thing.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24694
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Giganta! Batman! Zatanna! Green Arrow! Black Canary!)

Post by Jabroniville »

squirrelly-sama wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:45 am Huh, I always thought his name was Catman.
That was an E-tier Batman foe who later got upgraded into a bad-ass in Gail Simone's work. There was a "Cat Man" who looked JUST LIKE Wildcat in a Justice League episode where they met a Wildcat-analogue hero, among other Golden Age-themed guys- I'll be statting him later.

PS EVERYONE! Hey look! I'm a published wrestling author now: https://blogofdoom.com/index.php/2019/0 ... qus_thread

I mean, sort of. It's on a blog. But Maffew of Botchamania liked it! He's a big name! To... a segment of fans. Go me!
Last edited by Jabroniville on Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jabroniville
Posts: 24694
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

The Question

Post by Jabroniville »

Image
Image
Image

Green Arrow: "This whole trip might just prove the kid (Supergirl) shouldn't eat Nachos before bed!"
The Question: "Peanut Butter Sandwiches."
Supergirl: "How'd y-- What? Do you go through my TRASH?!"
The Question: "PLEASE... I go through everyone's trash."

THE QUESTION (Victor Sage)
Created By:
Steve Ditko
First Appearance: The Blue Beetle #1 (June 1967)
Role: Ensemble Darkhorse, Conspiracy Theorist, Greatest Character Ever
Voice Actor: Jeffrey Combs
Finest Moment: "The plastic tips at the ends of shoelaces are called 'aglets'. Their true purpose is sinister." (while UNDER TORTURE)
PL 8 (139)
STRENGTH
2 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 5
FIGHTING 11 DEXTERITY 4
INTELLIGENCE 3 AWARENESS 4 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+7)
Athletics 5 (+7)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+12)
Deception 8 (+7)
Expertise (Streetwise) 6 (+9)
Expertise (Politics) 5 (+8)
Expertise (Conspiracies) 10 (+13)
Insight 5 (+9)
Intimidation 6 (+5, +9 Mask)
Investigation 10 (+14)
Perception 6 (+10)
Sleight of Hand 6 (+10)
Stealth 4 (+9)
Vehicles 2 (+6)

Advantages:
Beginner's Luck, Benefit 2 (League Member, Quick Change), Chokehold, Daze (Intimidation), Diehard, Equipment 3 (Sweet Car, Detective Gear, Scary Mask), Fascinate (Deception), Fast Grab, Fearless, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Jack-of-All-Trades, Precise Attack (Close/Concealment), Ranged Attack 2, Startle, Tracking, Ultimate Investigation Skill, Well-Informed

Powers:
"Sneak Attack" Strength-Damage +2 (Flaws: Requires Flat-Footed Opponents) [1]

Equipment:
"Scary Mask" Enhanced Intimidation 4 (2)

Offense:
Unarmed +12 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Sneak Attack +12 (+4 Damage, DC 19)
Initiative +5

Defenses:
Dodge +12 (DC 22), Parry +12 (DC 22), Toughness +3, Fortitude +6, Will +8

Complications:
Reputation (Crack-Pot)
Relationship (The Huntress)
Obsession (Conspiracy Theories)- Ben & Jerrys secretly has Fourty-TWO flavours. Topically-applied fluoride renders teeth visible to spy satellites. Boy bands are part of the global conspiracy (not ConspiraCIES... it's singular) to control people's minds. The Magic Bullet was forged by Illuminati mystics to prevent us from learning The Truth.

Total: Abilities: 62 / Skills: 80--40 / Advantages: 21 / Powers: 1 / Defenses: 15 (139)

-The Question is a weird character in comics. Initially a character to represent Steve Ditko's own Objectivist beliefs about moral absolutism and stuff, the character was altered by Dennis O'Neal to be more about Eastern mysticism, and he got a lot of those "Well-Loved, but not Popular" series. He's arguably more notable for being the inspiration for Alan Moore's Rorschach (Moore was gonna just use the Charlton characters, but savvy DC Editors realized this would ruin said characters forever, and so Moore made Expies of the guys instead), the stand-out character from "Watchmen"- taking his absolutist views to an even more extreme level. DC killed Vic during the "52" series and replaced him with Renee Montoya, but he's probably back in the "New DCU", and helpfully so, because they can actually equate the much different character with his more popular DCAU self.

-Talk about saving a character concept. Probably the funniest and most well-written the character ever was, "Q" was BRILLIANT in this series. Just tons of one-liners and spastic, Rorschach-esque behavior, but always with heart and a sense of humor, making him stand out from the crowd. Just so much greatness with this character- he's got pretty much 1 through 5 of the best lines in the entire series. All that without any super-powers, or even a notable GIMMICK in combat (like Green Arrow or Batman). He's just a really psycho, obsessive detective who gets stuff done. The JLU writers even admitted they were ready to scrap the series and just make "The Question- The Series" the second they were done with his debut episode. It is the existence of The Question that REALLY proves the quality of the series, and pushes it above most other super-hero shows- nobody else has The Question, and so they are worse than JLU.

-Justice League Unlimited made The Question more popular than he'd ever been, was wildly beloved, and sent him to a new level of respectability and popularity in the comics... so of course this was the exact moment DC decided to kill him off and replace him with Renee Montoya. Because WCW. I mean, Because DC. BRILLIANT F*CKING MOVE, YOU GUYS!!! Though to be fair, Vic Sage hadn't been a conspiracy loon basically ever, and had dropped his insane Ditko-themed vigilantism even before that, turning into more of a Zen Buddhist Detective with spirituality, so a run as the "The tiny plastic tips on your shoelaces are called aglets; their TRUE purpose is sinister" Question wouldn't have made sense. But... f*ck it. They should have ran with it anyways. Seriously, this is the biggest ball-dropping in history- DC was HANDED this guy on a silver platter, but no- they had him slowly die to cancer in 52 and he was done as a name in comics for good.

-The Question lacks alot of the physical power of his fellow Leaguers, being only a fedora-wearing dick (not THAT kind of dick...) with a ton of Skills, and some good fighting skills. He's out-classed by other martial artists like Huntress & Canary, and even a bow-less Green Arrow beat him one-on-one, so he's only PL 8. But his Skills... he's the only detective in the show who's on Batman's playing field, he's got a giant knowledge of various things, and he can scare the living crap out of just about anybody short of Lex Luthor. He's an unusual mix stat-wise, though, because his Presence is low (the creepy, insane-sounding detective is virtually the DEFINITION of "High Wisdom, Low Charisma", to use the D&D parlance), yet he's got lots of points in various interpersonal skills.

-Note also the inclusion of a "Sneak Attack"- an equivalent to the old Feat from 2nd Edition, allowing Question to "hang" with PL 8-level opponents if he gets the drop on them. It's something I'd likely include on a Batman build for the mainstream DCU, to allow him to be a high-level fighter without increasing his Close Combat Skill to ludicrous levels.

About the Performer: Jeffrey Combs is best known for playing a lot of "Star Trek" characters, none of which I've heard of- he's played a TON of them, though. This got him one of those late '90s "Just a sci-fi actor" reputations, but as he was already The Re-Animator in those popular-ish horror films, he was already gonna be typecast.
Shock
Posts: 2978
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:27 pm
Location: Connecticut USA

Re: The Question

Post by Shock »

Jabroniville wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:56 am
Obsession (Conspiracy Theories)- Ben & Jerrys secretly has Fourty-TWO flavours.
Baskin Robbins is the chain famous for 31 flavors

I can't believe I've devolved into making nerdy corrections about ice cream brands :roll:
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