Jab's Rifts Builds (Rifts- A Final Summation!)

Where in all of your character write ups will go.
Jabroniville
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Federation of Magic

Post by Jabroniville »

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RIFTS WORLD BOOK 16- FEDERATION OF MAGIC (1997):
-The sixteenth World Book in the line finally details the inner workings of the worst enemy of the Coalition States, and another potential "Big Bad" of the setting. So we get Alistaire Dunscon, in addition to the supremely powerful Lords of Magic. The book is largely "fluff", with a minimum of O.C.C.s available, and also features a truly massive list of spells. And also has one of Kevin Siembieda's most notorious "you play Rifts? Fuck YOU." rants (I have a BIG thing planned for that; just wait).

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Perez’s amazing art for Stormspire. Completely different from your expectations of a “Magic Town”.

The first sixty pages are spent on the various towns and NPCs, which is good- sort of the detail you want in a Region-Specific entry. I really have to say that as much as Rifts New West was the showcase book for Ramon Perez's work, his stuff on Federation of Magic is possibly his best- his unique "battle-worn armor" art style is actually PERFECT for the gritty realities of the Federation, eschewing "Fantasy Gear" entirely and adopting the fact that everyone would wear armor, and in these occasionally lawless cities, it wouldn't always look nice. The image for Stormspire is that of hard-scrabble guys casually putting together Magitek gear, and it's wholly different from your typical "Wizard Enclave"- more of a high-tech garage. The Society of Sages? They're shown as a pair of creepy masked guys with dreadlocked hair, armed with guns & swords, like everyone would be on this world. They look inhuman and dangerous. The Battle, High & Lord Magus O.C.C.s all have similar looks, but look monstrous and dangerous just like the Sages do- a lack of facial features makes them much more uncanny.
Jabroniville
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Kevin's Dumbass Rant

Post by Jabroniville »

KEVIN'S RANT:
-So herein lies a famous rant by Palladium's head about the time a bunch of players complained to him about how Wizards are "wimpy", and his rebuttal to the idea that they sucked. And boy, it's a doozy- combining most of the things people hate about Kevin, some epic-level cluelessness, and then points invalidated by what comes later in the book!

Kevin's epic rant goes about three and a half pages (two others have art and a single paragraph, because Palladium), in front of the book's list of new O.C.C.s (because that's where the designer's rant about power levels belongs), and features a classic opinionated, often-irrelevant rant full of tangents. He has clear annoyance at nobody wanting to play Magic O.C.C.s, made obvious by his description about how he had to deal with fans cracking jokes about "wimpy" mages at Cons. He calls them "feisty" and makes sure to shorten the words of one guy to make him sound dumber ("So what's the point of playin' 'em?"), and in an infamous example, states "Another one thumped his chest and snorted 'That's right, against the real powerhouse characters (lists obviously more powerful classes), a mage is dead meat. They're worthless." A fan wrote that this makes him sound like he's comparing the fans to chest-thumping monkeys, and they'd be right. He later passive-aggressively says "If you don't like wizards, then don't play them (these guys didn't)".

In short- it's very, very clear that he thinks these guys are meatheaded idiots, and he feels intellectually superior to them. It's smug, condescending, and honestly pretty shitty for a game's head designer and owner to directly rip on his fans (remember, they DID enjoy the other characters) this way.

Kevin then answers this in four parts.
1) "Role" Playing can be much more than just shoot 'em up Combat:
-Kevin at least admits that "Rifts easily lends itself to power gaming" (I find it hilarious that he appears to have stumbled into this), but says that's not ALL it's about. Then explains that the "macho-players" gave an example about a farmgirl with tech easily being able to kill mages from 2000 feet, and that a wizard should be able to escape the attack with magic and encounter the farmgirl, thus going into plot hooks about WHY she's attacking them. This is, AT LEAST, fair enough- they can put up a force field or go invisible or something. However, it sidesteps the most important question, which is "why CAN a farmgirl easily kill wizards?".

2) Diversity is Good:
-A standard-issue Kevin rant about how some people play the same characters all the time, but it's perfectly valid to play suboptimal things, and that's not bad. And also that some GMs are better at crafting certain kinds of stories than others. This, of course, has nothing to do with the issues of Mages sucking beyond "Well not EVERYONE is playing this game just to fight!".

3) All Things are NOT Equal!
-Kevin goes on an anti-Ares rant about how game balance is dumb and illogical, and that some things SHOULD overpower other things. Then there's like five paragraphs about irrelevant "some people are better at stuff than others in real life" that includes comparisons of him being an RPG designer versus a boxer or a repairman or whatever. Largely, it's about how certain Wizards can be made up to do different things besides punching (which relates to Point 1, but Kevin isn't good at editing), and how the Body Doc can be useful, too. More "Role Playing" from KS.

4) To say Spellcasters are "Wimps" is Crazy!
-Aaaaaaaaaaaaand here's where he loses the point completely. He goes on about how Mages have great power because they power their own spells rather than needing E-Clips, which is dumb as shit because Mages would run out of spellcasting power before most people would run out of E-Clips (which are interchangeable, mostly, and not that expensive). Then Kevin goes on about how they have powers BEYOND just punching, completely sidestepping the "wimp" accusation by bringing up irrelevant powers that are really more about versatility and usefulness, not combat. Ignoring that most damage spells are suboptimal compared to guns.

And then of course he completely undermines his points by leading to a list of new O.C.C.s specifically designed to ANSWER these accusations, by giving wimpy Mage Classes the power they were clearly lacking before!

Okay, so.... here's the issue:
-Kevin's rant is misguided, aimless, poorly edited (CLEARLY just off the cuff and not looked over), and misses the point. The complaints of players were that Mages were poor fighters compared to the combat classes, and this easily plays out to any player (you even get MORE ATTACKS in Power Armor!). It takes mages AGES of experience to gain powers equivalent to 1st-level Juicers (with their extra attacks) or Glitter Boys (who will always hit with at least twice the power, no matter what level the Wizard is, and are more durable and can hit at longer range). "Mages Suck at Early Levels" is an old standard of D&D, but the point of that was THEY GET MORE POWERFUL LATER ON, not "they struggle for eight levels to equal what the other guys were doing eight levels ago".

Now, if he'd just bought that and kept to his early points, about how Wizards are there to do OTHER stuff, then he'd be a little more okay- they have plenty of versatility, and can do things that none of the combat classes can match. But... this is Rifts- a game more known for Powergaming than any other, and one in which a HUGE portion of the enemies available are insanely powerful, packing tons of M.D.C., and kind of require the players to be tough in order to do anything. Why SHOULD the Mage have to sit out combat and do nothing while the combat guys have their fun? Especially when almost all the NPCs have impossible-to-roll-up stats, scads of M.D.C., and more? The entire game seems to scream at players: "PLAY THIS! This thing is POWERFUL!" while at the same time Kevin's expecting you to deliberately be playing Rogue Scholars and Cyber Docs because that's what he'd do. Essentially, he points out that "Hey, the problem is YOU because you don't play like *I* do!", ignoring the fundamental problem that Wizards are pussies with a capital "P" compared to the classes the chest-thumping monkey mentioned to him at a con.

Looking at the early level spells is pretty classic- there's a lot of utilitarian stuff, but nothing much good in a fight. See Aura and See Invisible are 1st-Level, and often necessary for a game that throws Hidden Evils at you routinely, but only Thunderclap, Befuddle and Energy Bolt are worth much in fighting- and Energy Bolt is likely only Blast 6 (worse than most guns). Armor of Ithan is much more effective (Impervious Toughness + Half-Immunity to Magic), but suuuuuuuuuuucks at early levels (10 M.D.C. per level, so worthless until you're high-end), and also wears off and is of limited use eventually. Level 4 is a bit better, with Magic Net, Carpet of Adhesion (which is almost kinda broken), and a couple other things. But you can't Teleport until Level 6, I believe. You're still getting stuff like "Wolf Senses" or "Commune With Spirits" at Level 8, costing tons of points. So their damage spells are wimpy, and their utilitarian spells are so limited as to be worthless!

And keep in mind that Mystic Magic O.C.C.s only get FOUR SPELLS to start! Ley Line Walkers get only three in addition to their pile of utilitarian "Line Walker" stuff. Shifters get a handful of spells and at least Summon Lesser Being... which he can't use on its own (4-10 times his own P.P.E. at baseline). And like I said before, Dungeons & Dragons also features "Wizards suck at 1st Level", but the gulf isn't nearly so vast, and their Wizards also gain power at a much higher rate and end up MORE powerful than their allies by the end... not struggling to keep up with first-level Glitter Boys until they hit Level 15, and then they're almost as good.

If you REALLY wanted Mages to stack up, you'd be best off throwing Mind or Combat-affecting stuff very quickly. A "Haste" or "Slow" spell early on, as "Extra Attacks" is a God Stat in Rifts, and one of the many reasons why Juicers are so beloved. Things that ruin enemy aim, or allow you to go Intangible- again, at early levels. Summon Spells good and early instead of WAY later. Oh, and stuff that screws with those very tech-crazy characters that make Mages out to be "wimps". Because the way it is now... they're suboptimal power guys. And if you want to play the Wizard as a "Super-Spy" or the "Skillmonkey"/Rogue to make them useful, then that's fine. But accept that you've just written out 200 spells that largely aren't worth much (probably because they shoved the Palladium Fantasy spells into a world of 3D6x10 Boom Guns).

Kevin's suggestion of "Modify Magic to your liking" is asinine because this is hundreds of spells in a HUGE chunk of his game- why SHOULD they do all that work? Frankly, if Kevin could have checked his ego (which, according to those who've left Palladium, he never does), he'd have probably realized that the chest-thumping monkeys ARE RIGHT, called a mulligan, and re-did the Magic system for an updated version of the game.
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Sidious
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Re: Kevin's Dumbass Rant

Post by Sidious »

Jabroniville wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:27 am KEVIN'S RANT:

Kevin's suggestion of "Modify Magic to your liking" is asinine because this is hundreds of spells in a HUGE chunk of his game- why SHOULD they do all that work? Frankly, if Kevin could have checked his ego (which, according to those who've left Palladium, he never does), he'd have probably realized that the chest-thumping monkeys ARE RIGHT, called a mulligan, and re-did the Magic system for an updated version of the game.
an updated Rifts system will never happen. Kevin is to in love with it. He'll never optimize the game and update the rules because, as the creator, he believes these are perfect as they are.

If they were so perfect as they are why are there ports to Savage Worlds and this thread? We'll never get an answer and just keep doing our own thing.
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Re: Jab's Rifts Builds (Ultra-Crazy! Blood Riders! Larhold Barbarians!)

Post by Woodclaw »

What completely baffles me about Simbieda's rant is that pretty much all the arguments he used are thing I can get behind... IN A GAME THAT WASN'T MOTHER****ING RIFTS!!!

Now, while it's true that, with a grain of salt, you can use almost any game system in any setting, it's also true that every game system has a series of thing it does better than others (usually I call them Cornerstone or Efforts). D&D provides a better framework for tactical combat than Call of Cthulhu, Legend of the Five Rings and A Song of Ice and Fire are better at courtly intrigue than D&D will ever be, Pendragon and The One Ring emulates some very specific settings almost to perfection, 7th Sea is great for completely bonker cinematic action but terrible at realism. In short, how you design system and setting informs the players about the expectations.
Granted, this is not a universal rule, but you need a really special GM to pull out a campaign that defies the game expectations and still manages to be entertaining (in my entire career as a gamer I see this coming through only once when my friend Luca -- also known as "Amuro Rei" -- Gmed an entire campaign of Mekton Z base on the "One Year War" without having a single pilot in the team).
Rifts is pretty much non-stop super-bombastic action and complete insanity. It's the Michael Bay of RPGs and then some. Hence, saying that a class or character it's better because it provides utility it's complete nonsense because that's not the focus of your goddamned game! Then again Simbieda was (and probably still is) a man with really deep issues and no ability to delegate. According to a long rant from a former Palladium freelancer, it was almost customary for Kevin not to reply any request of information about your job, but simply barging in at the last minute doing a full rewrite of the entire thing. After being on the receiving end of a similar, but not nearly as bad, situation, I can tell you that it's not fun and it's the kind of thing that can strain any working relationship to the breaking point in minutes.
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

WareHouse W (main build thread for M&M)
Jabroniville
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The Federation itself

Post by Jabroniville »

THE FEDERATION OF MAGIC:
-Several pages are spent on the history of the Federation of Magic- with magic being mistrusted, but still used, by the early forces of Chi-Town, the Federation had been founded by Nostrous Dunscon only 100 miles away, comprised of most of the sorcerers in the area, Dragons, D-Bees, etc. The two were uneasy allies, with Dunscon expecting Chi-Town to accept his "Federation of Magic" into the new Coalition States. Unfortunately, they not only rejected him, but gave a list of "requests" involving weakening his Federation. Furious, the proud, increasingly-power-mad Dunscon insulted them and left. This created a five-year-long process of mistrust that led to both sides demonizing the other, and the flashes of war soon led to mass destruction when the Federation assaulted Chi-Town, expecting an easy victory.

-Unfortunately for them, as always happens, #LOLCoalitionWins. Because Dunscon, in his thirst for power and aggression against the CS, had turned away many of his allies- the powerful trio of demigods called the Lords of Magic, the city-states of Tolkeen and Lazlo, etc. And because the Coalition was shockingly powerful and numerous, and the assembled people there were fighting for their homes, and so fought savagely. After much loss, the Federation was shattered and Dunscon himself was killed by the future Emperor, Joseph Prosek I. The Federation thus was shattered, ending up in a loose conglomeration instead. Various factions sprouted up, with nobody maintaining more than 20% of the "Federation" proper.

INDIVIDUAL TOWNS & ORGANIZATIONS:
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Dweomer: Dweomer is the most powerful major "Magic City" in North America, looking like a fantasy castle with Dragons & Techno-Wizards everywhere. It's given a ridiculous amount of text indicating how suuuuuuuuuuuuuper secret it is (it's hidden via magic and protective guards). It is ruled by three Lords of Magic, unimaginably powerful beings with 13-16,000 M.D.C. (Toughness +21-23, most likely), tons of attacks, Regeneration (at least 10 ranks), and more. One is scholarly, another a true leader, and the other a powerful warrior (who actually is listed of Evil alignment!)- the three make decisions as one, and will not do anything unless all three agree. They have a mysterious origin (coming from another universe and awakening at the Great Cataclysm), and could likely control up to half of the Federation of Magic, but choose not to.

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The Lords: Brethan D'zir has all spells Level 1-15, does +13 damage unarmed, and is at least +22 Toughness. Coran D'zir has twelve attacks and a +9 bonus, about equivalent to +18 to hit in M&M, does +14 damage unarmed (so yes, he's PL 16 in combat!), +21 Toughness, and all the combat spells from Levels 1-15, plus all Metamorphosis, Flying, Teleportation & Dimension spells. Leizak D'zir knows all spells Levels 8-15, has +21 Toughness, does +14 damage unarmed, plus has all Creation, Transformation, Illusion, Stone & Temporal Magic. All three become less powerful when the others aren't around.

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"A pity we were not given the best artists on this book, sire"
"INDEED- 'tis the work of the Lords of Magic."


Dunscon; "The True Federation of Magic": Among the most powerful of mages is the demonic Alistaire Dunscon (son of Nostrous), a maniacal, laughing psychopath who obsessively hates the Coalition and the Lords of Magic. He lives in a town named after him- a City of Brass built by aliens and abandoned for unknown reasons, and he has a council made up of a Rakshasa, a Deevil (ugh I hate that name), one of The Corrupt (from this book), and more.

Magestar: Another "good" Magic town, founded by the Mystic Triad, who had broken off amicably with Dweomer, finding the Lords of Magic to be too isolationist, thinking it was harming the world to lack such a beacon of "Good Magic". Shown to be idealistic, though one of their number went with the blessing of the Lords, and is more pragmatic. The Triad are kind of neat, in that they're higher than baseline PCs, but not by much- Levels 6-10 only.

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K'zaa has a Dragon Juicer bodyguard, cross-referencing the last book.

Stormspire: A very fun "Wretched Hive", run by a Lizard Mage more interested in money than squabbles. Stormspire can teleport out of phase with reality, which is good because the Coalition REALLY wants them dead. Stormspire is responsible for about half of all the Techno-Wizard items in North America, and is thus VERY famous and sought-after. Mages of all stripes visit there for goods, and even Lord Dunscon allows them to operate unimpeded (K'zaa, the clever Lizard Mage, greeted Dunscon with gifts and a 10% discount on all Stormspire items for his allies). I kind of like K'zaa- he's shown as greedy and amoral, but loyal and beneficial for those beneath him, and willing to put up with those he respects. He's as much a trickster as anything, willing to "tweak the noses" of the Coalition and Federation of Magic.

Fadetowns: Numerous, often poor communities known to fade in and out of existence, as they're built along Ley Lines. More of a quirky side-thing, but they can leave your players ghost-like "specters" for a while.

The Society of Sages: A band of only 187 human supremacists, ones who actually see the Coalition as kindred spirits! They hate Dragons in all their forms especially.

The Grey Seers: A neutral band of mages who can see the future.

The Grim Reapers: The vicious cult seen in Juicer Uprising, turning Juicers into Murder Wraiths. Hated by all good Mages, but Lord Dunscon and Stormspire both love them.
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Re: Jab's Rifts Builds (Ultra-Crazy! Blood Riders! Larhold Barbarians!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Woodclaw wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:09 pm What completely baffles me about Simbieda's rant is that pretty much all the arguments he used are thing I can get behind... IN A GAME THAT WASN'T MOTHER****ING RIFTS!!!

Now, while it's true that, with a grain of salt, you can use almost any game system in any setting, it's also true that every game system has a series of thing it does better than others (usually I call them Cornerstone or Efforts). D&D provides a better framework for tactical combat than Call of Cthulhu, Legend of the Five Rings and A Song of Ice and Fire are better at courtly intrigue than D&D will ever be, Pendragon and The One Ring emulates some very specific settings almost to perfection, 7th Sea is great for completely bonker cinematic action but terrible at realism. In short, how you design system and setting informs the players about the expectations.
Granted, this is not a universal rule, but you need a really special GM to pull out a campaign that defies the game expectations and still manages to be entertaining (in my entire career as a gamer I see this coming through only once when my friend Luca -- also known as "Amuro Rei" -- Gmed an entire campaign of Mekton Z base on the "One Year War" without having a single pilot in the team).
Rifts is pretty much non-stop super-bombastic action and complete insanity. It's the Michael Bay of RPGs and then some. Hence, saying that a class or character it's better because it provides utility it's complete nonsense because that's not the focus of your goddamned game! Then again Simbieda was (and probably still is) a man with really deep issues and no ability to delegate. According to a long rant from a former Palladium freelancer, it was almost customary for Kevin not to reply any request of information about your job, but simply barging in at the last minute doing a full rewrite of the entire thing. After being on the receiving end of a similar, but not nearly as bad, situation, I can tell you that it's not fun and it's the kind of thing that can strain any working relationship to the breaking point in minutes.
That's the weird thing about Kevin and his system: Because he decided to tie in Rifts to his Robotech Mega-Damage system, he created a world in which you had to have Mega-Damage to live through a single combat. But HE HIMSELF just wants to play Rogue Scholars or cooks or whatever the hell- he's a ROLE PLAYER versus a ROLL PLAYER. So he's going to continue to rail against power gaming while giving power gamers tons of ammunition to use.

Though it's kind of funny how they reserved course, as most modern books have stuff that's MUCH less powerful than the Atlantis/Carella years.

Oh, and Fatal & Friends quoted Kevin's very, very public takedown of CJ Carella's work from the Rifts Game Master Guide:
When C.J. Carella wrote the South America books (and a few others), I foolishly gave the author too much leeway and latitude in his writing. I was trying to give the new guy freedom and let him run with his own ideas.

Well, C.J. is a heck of writer and has come up with some excellent ideas, characters, places and gizmos. HOWEVER, the power level of his early books (the two South America titles included) is unbalanced and overpowering compared to the rest of Rifts Earth. While these items are pretty limited to isolated geographic locations (namely South America), they can still be a problem, especially if the G.M. brings South American weapons, armor, vehicles and magic into North America or other parts of the world.

To resolve that, I suggest the following modifications: Reduce Mega-Damage by 25% (i.e. a die or two less), Range by 20%, Bonuses by half, and Payload by 20%. That evens them out nicely.
Just how a guy managed to release TWO ENTIRE BOOKS from under Kevin's nose without any of this catching anyone's notice is beyond me, short of "nobody was paying attention", which, according to most who knew Kevin and were willing to burn bridges, is pretty accurate.

I still wish I knew what happened with Breaux, Martin, Carella and the others. Only Bill Coffin reveals the real dirt :).
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Battle Magus

Post by Jabroniville »

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Wizard or S&M practitioner?

BATTLE MAGUS O.C.C.
Role:
Combat Mage
PL 10 (137 + Magic), PL 11 (137 + Magic) w/ Battle Fury Invoked
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+6)
Deception 4 (+6)
Expertise (Magic) 8 (+10)
Expertise (Soldier) 4 (+6)
Expertise (Espionage) 4 (+6)
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 4 (+6)
Investigation 4 (+7)
Perception 5 (+8)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Stealth 2 (+6)
Vehicles 2 (+7)

Advantages:
Accurate Attack, Equipment 13 (Gear- Battler Body Armor +5, TW Sword, TW Gun), Fearless, Great Endurance, Improved Aim, Improved Critical (Laser Rifle), Ranged Attack 1

Powers:
"One With The Body"
Enhanced Strength 1 [2]
Enhanced Skills 4: Athletics 4 (+10) [2]
Enhanced Advantages 2: Improved Disarm, Improved Initiative [2]
Enhanced Fortitude 1 [1]
Senses 3 (Awareness of Own Body- Analytical) [3]

"One With The Mind"
Immunity 10 (Sense-Dulling Drugs, Diseases, Spells & Psionics) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [5]
Enhanced Will 1 [1]

"One With Magic For Combat"
"Initial Spell List" (Manipulate Objects, Lantern Light, Globe of Daylight, Armor of Ithan, Escape, Breathe Without Air, Death Trance, Magic Shield, Deflect, Ricochet Strike, Light Target, Energy Bolt, Fire Bolt, Fireblast, Circle of Flame, Electric Arc, Throwing Stones, Orb of Cold, Fist of Fury, Power Weapon)
(Gains 3 Offensive & 1 Defense/Evasive Spell Per Level)

"Master of Weapons"
"They Just Copied This From the Gunslinger" Features 3: May Fire Two-Handed Guns One-Handed, May Fire Backwards Using Hand-Mirror, Shoot While Upside-Down- No Penalties [3]
"Quick-Draw Initiative" Enhanced Advantages 2: Improved Initiative 2 (Flaws: Limited to With 2 Kinds of Attacks- Magic/Sword/Gun/etc.) [1]
"Ricochet Shot" Feats: Ricochet (Feats: Variable- Any Ranged Weapon) [2]

"Battle Fury Blade" (Flaws: Easily Removable) [9]
"Invoke Battle Fury" Strength-Damage +11 (Feats: Accurate) (Extras: Multiattack 14) (Flaws: Unreliable- 2/day for 12 Rounds Apiece) (14) -- (15 points)
  • AE: "Normal Slash" Strength-Damage +10 (10)
Equipment:
"Body Armor"
Protection 5 (Impervious 5) (10)

"TW Storm Rifle" Blast 11 (Extras: Multiattack, Penetrating 5) (37) -- (38)
  • AE: "Wind Rush" Move Object 6 (Touch Range, Limited to Away, Cone Area) (3)
"Laser Pistol" Blast 6 (12)
"Assorted Gear" Gas Masks, Radios, etc. (4)
Knife +1 (Feats: Improved Critical) (2)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Battle Fury Blade +6 (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Invoke Battle Fury +8 (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Laser Pistol +6 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Storm Rifle +6 (+11 Ranged Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +4 (+12 w/ Rifles/Pistols)

Defenses:
Dodge +9 (DC 19), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +3 (+8 Armor), Fortitude +6, Will +7

Complications:
Responsibility (Dweomer)
Power Loss (Magic)- Magic requires personal energy to utilize- bigger spells with drain Wizards of their power much faster.

Total: Abilities: 54 / Skills: 46--23 / Advantages: 19 / Powers: 31 + Magic / Defenses: 10 (137 + Magic)

-Trained by the Brotherhood of Battle at Dweomer, the Battle Magus is your "So Spellcasters SUCK, do they? Try THIS!" quick-fix. By... copying the Gunslinger O.C.C. from New West and also giving him magic. WELL... it's something, I guess. These guys are front-line fighters, given good fighting skills and some truly piss-poor armor (oh, Palladium...), as well as a small handful of baseline spells that are at least somewhat advantageous. They're said to be the lowest-ranked of the fours kinds of Magus trained at Dweomer, but the most numerous, as they're in charge of defense. Their jobs are primarily to FIGHT and KILL, and their spells reflect that. Their helmets have lil' horns on it, and bug eyes, because that's how Perez felt like drawing their armor. Also, he looks like a slender, S&M junkie who REALLY wants you to know how nice his ass is.

-The Battle Magus is himself merely PRETTY good at fighting, but it's his GEAR that makes him truly dangerous- the Techno-Wizard gear they're allowed at baseline is remarkable, with the book telling you in the Equipment section that they love the Battle Fury Blade- this weapon allows for a ridiculous 6D6 Damage attack (about +13 in my conversions), and an UPGRADED version which offers a free second attack that opponents are -5 against because they don't expect it (I went with Accurate Multiattack to split the difference). This pushes a PL 9.5 fighter with PL 7 defenses to a remarkable full PL 11 on the offensive. Just... keep up your Armor of Ithan (an iffy Force Field spell that only gives first-level players a pittance of extra toughness). And finish your opponents fast, because you won't have the P.P.E. to keep up that "Invocation" for long.

-Their skills aren't great, but give them a solid baseline as "Smart Army Guys", as they have Espionage, Military and most of the physical skills already selected. But those are the ones all players will auto-take anyhow, and they don't have as many left over.
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Sidious
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Re: Battle Magus

Post by Sidious »

Jabroniville wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:37 am Image

Wizard or S&M practitioner?
Can't they be both?
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Re: Kevin's Dumbass Rant

Post by JDRook »

Jabroniville wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:27 amAnd keep in mind that Mystic Magic O.C.C.s only get FOUR SPELLS to start! Ley Line Walkers get only three in addition to their pile of utilitarian "Line Walker" stuff.
I think you read those numbers wrong. Mystics get a total of 8 spells and LL Walkers 12 spells at first level. They can choose the spells from a limited range of magic levels, though (Mystic 1-2, LL 1-4). Probably just fell in the "level trap" of RPGs describing too many things as levels. Mystics also have psionics to balance stuff out, but of course Walkers are kind of the darling mage of the core Rifts book.

Still, everything else you went into is true. Spell utility and costs are scattered almost randomly among levels, most of it doesn't scale, or at least not enough to keep up with readily available tech that does the same thing. I hadn't considered it before, but it's likely due to KS taking the magic from Pal-Fantasy and Beyond the Supernatural and dropping them practically untouched into a completely different setting without compensating for Robotech MDC and ubiquitous equipment.

Trying to fully convert Rifts spells into M&M was a real slog and more trouble than it's worth, but it does give some good ideas. It would be much easier to just make spells that work on the same concepts but scale to level better, and using my PPE system to limit it without too much bookkeeping or GM Fiat might actually work. I might try making a streamlined magic system using your suggestions.
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Re: Kevin's Dumbass Rant

Post by Jabroniville »

JDRook wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:09 pm
Jabroniville wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:27 amAnd keep in mind that Mystic Magic O.C.C.s only get FOUR SPELLS to start! Ley Line Walkers get only three in addition to their pile of utilitarian "Line Walker" stuff.
I think you read those numbers wrong. Mystics get a total of 8 spells and LL Walkers 12 spells at first level. They can choose the spells from a limited range of magic levels, though (Mystic 1-2, LL 1-4). Probably just fell in the "level trap" of RPGs describing too many things as levels. Mystics also have psionics to balance stuff out, but of course Walkers are kind of the darling mage of the core Rifts book.
Weird- I dunno where I got those numbers from- my builds got them right as far as I can tell. Did Fatal & Friends give those numbers, or did I read it in the Federation of Magic book and THEY got it wrong? Wait- an editing mistake in a Palladium book? That's impossible- never mind.
Still, everything else you went into is true. Spell utility and costs are scattered almost randomly among levels, most of it doesn't scale, or at least not enough to keep up with readily available tech that does the same thing. I hadn't considered it before, but it's likely due to KS taking the magic from Pal-Fantasy and Beyond the Supernatural and dropping them practically untouched into a completely different setting without compensating for Robotech MDC and ubiquitous equipment.
Yeah, this is something I gathered over time, once Kevin made a direct quote referring to those books. I kind of went "Oh he just CONVERTED these!", probably to save time.

My favorite thing is this book randomly adding that Wizards can't wear regular M.D.C. armor, like D&D Wizards can't wear bulky armor... and the commenters are like "THIS HAS NEVER BEEN MENTIONED BEFORE!". Never mind how it makes Wizards EVEN WORSE.
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Lord Magus

Post by Jabroniville »

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LORD MAGUS O.C.C.
Role:
Elite Mage, Creature of Magic
PL 8 (154 + Magic)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 2 (+5)
Expertise (Magic) 8 (+10)
Expertise (Law) 2 (+4)
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 3 (+6)
Investigation 3 (+6)
Perception 5 (+8)
Persuasion 2 (+4)

Advantages:
Equipment 13 (Gear- Body Armor +5, TW Sword, TW Gun), Fearless

Powers:
"One With The Body"
Enhanced Strength 1 [2]
Enhanced Fighting 1 [2]

"One With The Mind"
Immunity 10 (Sense-Dulling Drugs, Diseases, Spells & Psionics) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [5]
Enhanced Awareness 1 [2]
Enhanced Presence 1 [2]
Enhanced Will 1 [1]

"One With Magic"
"Read Ley Lines" Senses 7 (Ley Line Awareness- Ranged 2, Analytical, Acute, Distance Sense) [7]
"Sense Magic" Senses 2 (Magic Awareness- Ranged) [2]
Concealment (Vision) [4]
"Ley Line Phasing" Teleport 10 (Extras: Extended, Accurate) (Flaws: Limited to Along Ley Lines, Source- 15-60 Second Ritual -1/2, Unreliable- 4/hour -1/2) (20) -- [21]
  • AE: "Ley Line Rejuvenation" Healing 6 (Flaws: Limited to Self, Limited to Within Ley Lines) (3)
"Initial Spell List" (All Illusion Spells, All Spells Levels 1-2)
(Adds 1D6+4 or 1D4+4 Spells Per Level)

Equipment:
"Body Armor"
Protection 5 (Impervious 5) (10)

"TW Storm Rifle" Blast 11 (Extras: Multiattack, Penetrating 5) (37) -- (38)
  • AE: "Wind Rush" Move Object 6 (Touch Range, Limited to Away, Cone Area) (3)
"Laser Pistol" Blast 6 (12)
"Assorted Gear" Gas Masks, Radios, etc. (4)
Knife +1 (Feats: Improved Critical) (2)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Laser Pistol +5 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Storm Rifle +5 (+11 Ranged Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +3 (+8 Armor), Fortitude +6, Will +7

Complications:
Responsibility (Dweomer)
Power Loss (Magic)- Magic requires personal energy to utilize- bigger spells with drain Wizards of their power much faster.
Vulnerable (Anti-Magic Stuff)- The more powerful they become, the more Lord Magi are vulnerable to silver, Rune Weapons, Holy Weapons & Ley Line Storms.

Total: Abilities: 48 / Skills: 28--14 / Advantages: 14 / Powers: 48 + Magic / Defenses: 7 (154 + Magic)

-"Magic Characters suck, do they?" say the creators (to themselves; they refuse to admit it publicly), "Well try THIS!". A Lord Magus is someone who's done SO MUCH MAGIC that they literally become a creature of it, eventually transforming into an M.D.C. being. Instructed by the Lords of Magic and their fellow Lord Magi, these guys are engaging in non-stop deep thought and meditation, causing them to act sort of obsessive and inhuman, constantly lost in their own ideas. They become emotionless, distant and "removed" from other people- interesting player character stuff, I guess. Bizarrely, they learn magic early and then stop getting new stuff, instead focusing on their original spells- they typically stop learning by 6th Level.

-In my friend Paul's short-lived campaign at "Fun & Video Games" in Red Deer (a notorious den of over-charging for basic stuff, because it was the only game store in town), my friend Jordan and I had characters, and a third guy joined up after kind of just being asked if he wanted to game. His selection was a Lord Magus naked Arkahl (I dunno why I remember that name more than anyone else's- I don't even remember what Jordan played!), but he was a Promethean, I think. Which is INSANELY overpowered, but hell, I was playing a Dragon Hatchling.

-A Lord Magus has WAY more access to spells at the starter levels than any comparable Wizard, which I think is the purpose of the class- versatility, and every level, they gain new unique abilities, making them more and more inhuman. Some of these are actually INCREDIBLY good, allowing them to become M.D.C. creatures eventually, double the range of spells (early on, too!), and more. Basically, the whole O.C.C. is just "Wizard, But Better In Every Way", being more versatile and eventually, a lot more powerful.

Progression of Abilities as Creature of Magic: Level 1 (Invisibility), 2 (Regeneration 2), 3 (Double Range of Spells), 4 (Greatly increase P.P.E./level gain), 5 (Impervious to Possession), 6 (Ages 1 Year for Every 5), 7 (Magic Heat/Fire Does Half-Damage), 8 (HP & S.D.C. convert to M.D.C.- Toughness 8-ish), 9 (Magic Cold Does Half-Damage), 10 (One Additional Spell Attack Per Round), 11 (See Invisible, Spirits & Astral Beings), 12 (+1 to Spell Strength), 13 (Strength Becomes Supernatural- does more damage), 14 (Impervious to Illusions), 15 (Double Duration of All Spells).
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Woodclaw
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Re: Battle Magus

Post by Woodclaw »

Sidious wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:53 am
Jabroniville wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:37 am Image

Wizard or S&M practitioner?
Can't they be both?
Half-Orc drag-queen Warlock... yeah my players are weird.
"You're right. Sorry. Holy shit," I breathed, "heckhounds.”

WareHouse W (main build thread for M&M)
Jabroniville
Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

High Magus

Post by Jabroniville »

Image

HIGH MAGUS O.C.C.
Role:
Elite Mage, Item Creators
PL 8 (105 + Magic)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 6 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Deception 2 (+5)
Expertise (Magic) 10 (+12)
Expertise (Construction) 7 (+9)
Insight 3 (+6)
Perception 4 (+7)
Persuasion 2 (+5)
Treatment 4 (+6)

Advantages:
Artificer, Equipment 13 (Gear- Body Armor +5, TW Sword, TW Gun), Great Endurance

Powers:
"One With The Body"
Enhanced Strength 1 [2]
Enhanced Fighting 1 [2]

"One With The Mind"
Immunity 10 (Sense-Dulling Drugs, Diseases, Spells & Psionics) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [5]
Immunity 2 (Possession) [2]
Enhanced Awareness 1 [2]
Enhanced Presence 1 [2]
Enhanced Will 1 [1]

"Link With The Lords of Magic" Features 3: May Create Automotons w/ 48-Hour Ritual, May Bond Controllers to Automotons, Vague Bonuses Owing to Strange Link- The Lords of Magic know when they're killed, etc. [3]

"One With Magic"
"Initial Spell List" (All 11th Level Spells, plus Create Steel, Create Water, Create Wood, Fool's Gold, Ignite Fire, Energize Spell, Manipulate Objects, Globe of Daylight, Cleanse, Wards, Water to Wine, Dispel Magic Barrier, Negate Magic, Negate Mechanics, Energy Disruption, Stone to Flesh, Tongues, Teleport Lesser, Restore Limb, Super Healing, Healing Touch, Frequency Jamming, Speed Weapon, Power Weapon)
(Adds all Spells of Levels 12-15 over the next few levels, then 1D4+1 from Levels 7-10 afterwards)

Equipment:
"Body Armor"
Protection 5 (Impervious 5) (10)

"TW Storm Rifle" Blast 11 (Extras: Multiattack, Penetrating 5) (37) -- (38)
  • AE: "Wind Rush" Move Object 6 (Touch Range, Limited to Away, Cone Area) (3)
"Laser Pistol" Blast 6 (12)
"Assorted Gear" Gas Masks, Radios, etc. (4)
Knife +1 (Feats: Improved Critical) (2)

Offense:
Unarmed +6 (+3 Damage, DC 18)
Laser Pistol +5 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Storm Rifle +5 (+11 Ranged Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +6 (DC 16), Toughness +3 (+8 Armor), Fortitude +6, Will +7

Complications:
Responsibility (Dweomer)
Power Loss (Magic)- Magic requires personal energy to utilize- bigger spells with drain Wizards of their power much faster.
Vulnerable (Anti-Magic Stuff)- The more powerful they become, the more Lord Magi are vulnerable to silver, Rune Weapons, Holy Weapons & Ley Line Storms.

Total: Abilities: 48 / Skills: 32--16 / Advantages: 15 / Powers: 19 + Magic / Defenses: 7 (105 + Magic)

-The High Magi are the "Creators" of Dweomer- specializing in the creation of Magic Items, Automotons, Magic Scrolls, buildings, and other things. They are also Healers & providers of other forms of care. All of this makes the High Magus the most scholarly, philosophical, and empathetic of the three Magi classes, being more like Dr. McCoy than the cool, discerning Mister Spock (Lord Magi) or Captain Kirk (Battle Magi). This makes them more sorrowful and concerned about the horrors of war, but though they very rarely engage in fighting, they are still fairly capable. More importantly, they wear hippie bead-curtains on their bug-facemasks.

-High Magi are very, very weird- despite being non-combatants, they are great at combat (getting boosts to strike) and have ALL THE MAGIC, but curiously learned backwards- their schtick is to have all the Spells from 11-15 by fifth level, and never any below Level 7. And they have the most P.P.E. of all three Magi classes. Only they (and the three Lords of Magic) may pilot the top of the line Automotons, the Colossals.
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Posts: 24690
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Controller

Post by Jabroniville »

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CONTROLLER O.C.C.
Role:
Monster Rider
PL 8 (106 + Magic)
STRENGTH
3 STAMINA 3 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 5
INTELLIGENCE 2 AWARENESS 3 PRESENCE 2

Skills:
Athletics 4 (+7)
Deception 2 (+4)
Expertise (Magic) 6 (+8)
Expertise (Soldier) 2 (+4)
Insight 3 (+6)
Intimidation 4 (+6)
Investigation 4 (+7)
Perception 5 (+8)
Persuasion 2 (+4)
Vehicles 2 (+7)

Advantages:
Equipment 13 (Gear- Battler Body Armor +5, TW Sword, TW Gun), Great Endurance

Powers:
"One With The Body"
Enhanced Strength 1 [2]
Enhanced Skills 4: Athletics 4 (+11) [2]
Enhanced Advantages 1: Improved Disarm [1]
Enhanced Fortitude 1 [1]

"Initial Spell List" (Lantern Light, Globe of Daylight, Breathe Without Air, Tongues, See the Invisible, Climb, Chameleon, Distant Voice, Energy Bolt, Electric Arc, Armor of Ithan, 3 Spells from Levels 1-4)
(Gains 1 Offensive & 1 Defensive Spell Per Level)

"One Master" Features 1: Linked Automotons Only Work For the Controller (or the High Magus who created them) [1]
"Spell Magic of the Automoton" Features 1: May Give Magic Power to Automoton [1]
"Extended Range" Features 1: May Double Range of Own Magic Using Linked Automoton's Battery [1]
"Command Automotons" Features 1: May Command Up to Four Automotons at Higher Levels [1]

"Bonuses From the Union"
Enhanced Fighting 2 (Flaws: Affects Others Only +0, Limited to Linked Automoton) [2]
Enhanced Advantages 4: Close Combat 2, Ranged Combat 2 (Flaws: Affects Others Only +0, Limited to Linked Automoton) [2]

"See Through Its Eyes" Remote Sensing 2 (Vision, Hearing) (Flaws: Limited to Automoton) [4]

Equipment:
"Body Armor"
Protection 5 (Impervious 5) (10)

"TW Storm Rifle" Blast 11 (Extras: Multiattack, Penetrating 5) (37) -- (38)
  • AE: "Wind Rush" Move Object 6 (Touch Range, Limited to Away, Cone Area) (3)
"Laser Pistol" Blast 6 (12)
"Assorted Gear" Gas Masks, Radios, etc. (4)
Knife +1 (Feats: Improved Critical) (2)

Offense:
Unarmed +5 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Laser Pistol +5 (+6 Ranged Damage, DC 21)
Storm Rifle +5 (+11 Ranged Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +4 (+12 w/ Rifles/Pistols)

Defenses:
Dodge +6 (DC 16), Parry +5 (DC 15), Toughness +3 (+8 Armor), Fortitude +5, Will +5

Complications:
Responsibility (Dweomer)
Power Loss (Magic)- Magic requires personal energy to utilize- bigger spells with drain Wizards of their power much faster.
Power Loss (Fighting Skills)- The Controller loses "half his actions" while piloting an Automoton. This is the equivalent of lowered accuracy in M&M terms, I guess. They get almost none while controlling more than one Automoton.

Total: Abilities: 50 / Skills: 34--17 / Advantages: 14 / Powers: 18 + Magic / Defenses: 7 (106 + Magic)

-A Controller is a sub-set of Battle Magus, specializing in controlling the giant Automotons. They gain bonuses that the other classes (which may also ride them) lack, such as controlling them from afar, controlling more than one, empowering them with their own PPE, etc. Their Automotons are also much better fighters (gaining two attacks and extra accuracy). All in all, a Controller is weak on his own
Jabroniville
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Automotons

Post by Jabroniville »

AUTOMOTONS:
-A huge part of the Federation of Magic book is devoted to the "No, really! Magic DOESN'T suck! Here's some magic mechs to make Wizards less shitty!" Automotons. These are enormous, inanimate golems controlled by wizards, who ride them like ponies and attack through them, animating them with their own magicks. The things are kind of a double-whammy- their statlines are truly incredible, and their durability way beyond even that of a Glitter Boy's (!), but a Wizard only has, at-best, some basic cover while riding one- they are thus horribly vulnerable. And no, they can't enter the actual Automoton- the "Magic Energies" inside of it will kill them instantly. So Wizards & Automotons are incredibly powerful and dangerous... unless you just shoot the vulnerable wizard.

-A High Magus must create the actual body (a process that takes two months), and any of the four Magus O.C.C.s or a Techno-Wizard may pilot the Automotons, but only one "linked" to them gets special bonuses. One Controller may be linked to an Automoton in this manner, after which he controls it like a puppet. These creatures are kept secret, and I guess people follow the "honor system" as even the Coalition has barely heard of them. Despite this, there are 6790 Automotons active in Dweomer, largely as a defensive force.

-The book notes (in a HUGE paragraph- about a third of the space of the bio on the thing) that some have been coming to life on their own, baffling even The Three! The Battlemaster of the Three suspects Alistair Dunscon.
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