Jab’s Builds! (Lawnmower Man! Samus Aran! Metroids!)

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Jabroniville
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Speedball

Post by Jabroniville »

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SPEEDBALL (Robert "Robbie" Baldwin, aka Penance II)
Created By:
Steve Ditko & Tom DeFalco
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man Annual #22 (1988)
Role: The Comic Relief
Group Affiliations: The New Warriors, Damage Control, Avengers Academy, The Shadow Initiative, The Thunderbolts
PL 9 (135)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+6)
Athletics 2 (+3)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+7)
Deception 5 (+5)
Expertise (Law) 2 (+2)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 6 (+6)
Insight 2 (+3)
Perception 2 (+3)
Persuasion 2 (+3)
Stealth 1 (+5)

Advantages:
Agile Feint, Evasion 2, Improved Defense, Interpose, Luck 2, Ranged Attack 4, Set-Up, Takedown 2, Teamwork, Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Kinetic Bouncing Field"
Protection 9 (Feats: Impervious 7) [16]
"Bouncing" Leaping 6 (500 feet) [6]
Immunity 5 (Falling Damage) [5]
Immunity 20 (Bludgeoning Damage) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [10]

"Bounce-Back Attack" Damage 9 (Feats: Accurate) (Extras: Reaction +3) (Flaws: Limited to Damage of Opponent's Attack) (28) -- [30]
  • AE: "Pinball Attack" Damage 7 (Feats: Accurate, Ricochet 5, Split 3) (17)
    AE: "Bubble Stream" Blast 7 (Feats: Accurate 2) (16)
Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Pinball Attack +9 (+7 Damage, DC 22)
Bounce-Back Attack +9 (+8 Damage, DC 23)
Bubble Stream +8 (+7 Ranged Damage, DC 22)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +2 (+11 Kinetic Field), Fortitude +5, Will +6

Complications:
Normal Identity (Robbie Baldwin)- Robbie's a bit weaker in his "normal" form (lacking most of the evasive Advantages), and requires some sort of impact to start up the "Speedball" form.
Relationship (Timeslip, Hummingbird)- The first was his girlfriend near the end of the first run of the team's book; the latter was interested in him during the latest.

Total: Abilities: 26 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 16 / Powers: 67 / Defenses: 13 (135)

Speedball- Ditko's Last Contribution to Marvel:
-Speedball may hold a place in history for being the only character in history do only become a TRULY '90s character well after the decade had ended, recently becoming PENANCE and wearing a SPIKED COSTUME that always BROUGHT HIM PAIN AND ANGST AARRRR!!!!

-Speedball in the '90s was the Comic Relief of the New Warriors, existing as a mid-'80s short-lived Steve Ditko (yes, the Spider-Man guy) creation that never really got off the ground because it was just so goofy, in spite of its obvious comparisons to Spidey and the multiple "teen heroes" that copied him. Robbie Baldwin gained his powers in a lab accident... and so did a cat, and Robbie instantly got covered in a weird costume and was always surrounded by balls of energy, and adopted the cat. All of his villains were total goofs, marking his book more of a comedy thing. A recurring issue is the breakup of his parents' marriage, and his district attorney father's issues with the actions of vigilantes in their Springdale, Connecticut hometown.

-He did okay I guess, and ironically came to represent the New Warriors moreso than even Night Thrasher or the sexy female characters, though that ended up being more of a hindrance than a bonus once the Warriors came to be well-known for repeated failed runs. Reading many of the old issues, I'm kind of struck by how he doesn't really "fit in" the way the others do (he doesn't get an in-team hook-up- the only one of the main seven not to date within that era), and that while he's the Token Funny Guy, he's also got his own sad story- his parents (a lawyer and an actress) are in the middle of a divorce, and the Warriors are basically his way to "get away from it all". We actually get a glimpse of his real self a lot as well (he's an even skinnier, shrimpier kid than the others at all of fifteen years old- Nita & Firestar actually feel bad for him, and try to build him up). He manages to be best friends with Rage during the issues I have, and only later begins to date Timeslip as the book fades into oblivion.

Post-Warriors Speedball:
-Of the entire team, it was Speedball who ended up becoming most tied to the book- everyone else but he & Thrash had "a place to be", and so when the book was rebooted a couple of years later, it was Speedball who became the team leader/organizer. Trying to get Justice & Firestar to join, as they were the "heart" of the prior squad, the two kids, now on the Avengers, argued that SPEEDBALL was, in fact, the heart of the team, and should form it around him. Unfortunately, this incarnation of the book died after 11 issues, and a Limited Series several years later also didn't set the world on fire- this team would instead be responsible for the Stamford Incident that killed a ton of innocent children (612 people in all), staining the New Warriors name for good.

PENANCE!:
-Robbie, penitent over his role in the deaths (and being the only survivor of the Warriors at the time), became insane, withdrawing into himself and using his powers in literally the angstiest way possible- wearing a costume full of 612 internal spikes, so that he could activate his powers via pain. Calling himself "Penance", he started hunting unregistered heroes and villains as part of the dark "Thunderbolts" squad. And really, REALLY dumb, to the point where it was nearly universally deridied, mocked IN-UNIVERSE (Squirrel Girl got him to confess he did it just to be seen as "deep" for once, and that he forced his cat to wear the same kind of costume as the Penitent Puss), and is widely seen as one of the dumbest part of the Civil War/Initiative/Dark Reign-era Marvel.

-Speedball was never a major, or even popular character, essentially being "The Hawkeye" of a third or fourth-tier book, but everyone kinda liked him and appreciated what he was about. I was never a huge fan, but even I created a rip-off of him for the Something Unique fictional universe me and a bunch of internet friends had created eons ago that became one of my most beloved creations. So to see him as Captain Angst, moping over killing hundreds of children, bleeding constantly ("Bleedball" is a popular fan nickname), feeling eternal pain and anguish while Blasting away and smashing people indiscriminately... it was fairly bizarre. At least he saw to it that Nitro was badly hurt, locking him inside the same kind of spiked costume that he wears.

The Heroic Age:
-Speedball was finally kinda "rescued" from all this after repeated attempts to escape from the Thunderbolts, and being repeatedly manipulated by his handlers Norman Osborn & Moonstone- he is rescued by a resistant band of New Warriors, and Initiative recruit Trauma, who's able to see people's worst fears, convinces him to accept things. Following this, he appears in Avengers Academy with Justice and some others, acting as "mentors" to the new trainee heroes. Initially still cutting himself to use his "Penance" powers, he finds a better way with help from his co-wrokers, and kind of becomes his old self, quitting the Academy in the process. This immediately leads to the reborn New Warriors book, with Justice & Speedball on it. Together, they defeat the High Evolutionary's scheme with the help of many new characters, but this book ultimately barely lasts a year. During the series, Speedball acts happy again, but the writer, to their credit, doesn't just sweep the whole "Penance" thing under the rug, as Robbie shows some hints of being sombre and introspective.

Speedball Overall:
-Robbie has that weird situation where he's so extremely linked to a book that ultimately died out and can't get off the ground again that it hurt his chances to ever succeed as a character... and then Penance turned him into a living joke anyways. But now this modern kind of matured, somewhat-penitent Robbie with the same guilt over Stamford is around, though not a total wreck. I think Christos Gage deserves a lot of the credit for remaking the character in his modern self, where the "Old Robbie" at least seems POSSIBLE, with Warren Ellis deserving the rest for at least humanizing the goofy-ass Penance situation.

Speedball's Powers:
-Speedball is a PL 9 (135) build, but with some WEIRD stats. He's not a great fighter by any means, and is rather easy to hit, but actually DOING damage is quite a different matter. Nigh-immune to many forms of harm (especially to blunt physical trauma, to the point of gaining Immunities for that sort of thing), his whole technique involves being plastered by the bad guys, then bouncing back with the same level of kinetic energy drawn back at them. This is the "Bounce-Back Attack" Extra from 2e's "Bouncing" turned into a "Reaction Damage" effect that's Limited to the degree of damage the original attack is worth, in addition to a standard low-level Blast and his usual "Pinball" attack that bounces between enemies.

-Modern Robbie is kinda/sorta different from this, as he can utilize this normally, but ALSO has access to the following power-set:

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PENANCE II (Robert "Robbie" Baldwin)
Created By:
Steve Ditko & Tom DeFalco
First Appearance: The Amazing Spider-Man Annual #22 (1988)
Role: The Psychopathic Mega-Bullet, Ultra-Violent '90s Hero
Group Affiliations: The New Warriors, Damage Control, Avengers Academy, The Shadow Initiative, The Thunderbolts
PL 13 (160)
STRENGTH
1 STAMINA 2 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 5 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE -1 AWARENESS -2 PRESENCE -1

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+6)
Intimidation 8 (+7)
Perception 4 (+2)
Ranged Combat (Kinetic Attacks) 4 (+8)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Power Attack, Ranged Attack 4

Powers:
"Penance Armour" (Flaws: Removable) (Feats: Restricted to Masochists/Immune to Piercing) [12]
Protection 5 (5)
Spike Aura 2 (8)
-- (13 points)

Immunity 2 (Pain Effects) [2]

"Super-Kinetic Storms" (All Have Flaws: Limited to When Feeling Pain)
Kinetic Aura 12 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) [60]
Flight 4 (30 mph) (Flaws: Low Ceiling) [2]
Kinetic Blast 16 (Extras: Multiattack) (32) -- [33]
  • AE: "Kinetic Wave" Damage 13 (Extras: Area- 60ft. Cone) (13)
Force Field 6 (Extras: Impervious 12) [9]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+1 Damage, DC 16)
Kinetic Aura +12 Area (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Kinetic Blast +8 (+16 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Kinetic Wave +13 Area (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 17), Toughness +2 (+11 Kinetic Field), Fortitude +5, Will -1

Complications:
Motivation (Heroism)- Mike idolizes super-heroes, and really wants to be one.
Normal Identity (Robbie Baldwin)- Robbie's a bit weaker in his "normal" form (lacking most of the evasive Advantages), and requires some sort of impact to start up the "Speedball" form.

Total: Abilities: 18 / Skills: 18--9 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 118 / Defenses: 9 (160)

-Robbie, as Penance, is a true heavyweight, effecting a mass Area-Burst Kinetic Aura, IN ADDITION TO a huge Blast that makes him PL 12-13. He's entirely different from Speedball in every possible way. He doesn't even bounce! His mental stats are a mess, though, so he's not much on the "Role Playing" side of things. He's the epitome of Iron Age storytelling in nearly every regard- he even has spikes on him!

-For modern Robbie, typically this build works, but with a 6-point "Metamorph" trick that only creates another powerset- the one above.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ares
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Frozen II! Night Thrasher! Justice! Firestar! Speedball!)

Post by Ares »

Ah Speedball. Poor, poor Speedball. As I mentioned over in Justice, Robbie was my favorite character, who was kind of the goofball younger brother to the team that was mildly annoying but who everyone liked. Chord once asked Dwayne why the latter kept Robbie on the team, and Dwayne basically just shrugged and said, "Everyone else likes having him around."

It made it all the sadder when you got to see a glimpse of his home life, and see how Robbie had changed from the Dittko written books. Under Dittko, Robbie had been a very straight laced, mild mannered kid, very Peter Parker, who used his powers as an escape and an excuse to be silly. Under Nicieza, Robbie was still a bundle of light-hearted fun as Speedball, but at home he had grown out his hair and adopted more of a rebellious "punk rock" teen sort of attitude. When his dad refuses to get worried bout his mom leaving to join some environmentalist movement (which turned out to be a group of Eco-Terrorists), Robbie revealed that he didn't really LIKE punk rock, he preferred classic rock and even classical music. The whole punker look was an act to get his parents to focus on him and stop fighting each other. But his parents were both so up their own asses with their own problems that they never looked past the surface. They just blew it off as Robbie going through "a phase" and kept fighting each other.

Robbie eventually mellowed out more in his home life, but we'd occasionally see that past the jokes and the '90s kid' attitude was a troubled young man who could get oddly introspective. He also proved himself to be MUCH more perceptive than people gave him credit for. When Vance was brought to trial for killing his father, Robbie was the one giving the team legal advice and prepare them for what could happen.

Robbie was also sort of the "Kyle Rayner" of the group, coming off as the least experienced by having the most untapped potential. Early on, Robbie didn't really give a lot of thought to improving his powers or really understanding them. He was basically invulnerable, and his primary function was to act as a distraction for the rest of the team, to save civilians, or to slam into someone unexpectedly. He was actually a remarkably good team player and got really good at figuring out where to bounce to do the most good. However, when the original Sphinx kidnapped Robbie and developed technology to steal his powers, and used those powers to deadly effect, Robbie got kind of a wake up call about the consequences of just having power. If he didn't learn how to better control his abilities, other people would find a way to use said abilities for their own ends. And people could get hurt.

So Robbie started to slowly figure out a lot of tricks based around his kinetic energy field. One of the first things he learned to do was to store kinetic energy and channel it through his fists, giving him a kind of super punch that sent Terrax flying for miles and KOed a guy who had been duking it out with Rage evenly. Then he figured out how to absorb kinetic energy from objects in motion, stopping a wave of bullets in mid-air and letting them fall harmlessly to the ground. Then he figured out how to flex his field to create a kind of kinetic energy cushion to catch calling objects, to project his kinetic field as either a soft 'push' effect or a powerful energy blast, etc. Basically, while Robbie still bounced around like a goof, he was far and away the most versatile member of the Warriors.

All of which is why everything starting with Reality TV New Warriors series pissed me off. Speedy was just a superficial bouncing guy with none of his personality or power growth, and both Bendis and Millar seemed to enjoy destroying the character. The whole Penance thing was beyond stupid, and what's really sad is there's nothing Penance does that Robbie couldn't originally do. Shooting mass waves of kinetic energy was completely within his abilities, he just chose NOT to do so because A) He wasn't violent enough to do so, B) He wasn't irresponsible enough to cause such mass damage.

Though it's refreshing that even with all of the crap heaped upon him, writers still made the effort to bring Robbie back to normal. It's appropriate that Speedball could bounce back from bad hits like that.

Also, for my money, they never really improved on Robbie's original costume. The second one was a nice attempt, but everything else just didn't work. To me, the multi-sphere look is just unique and integral to the character. Getting rid of it is just lazy and takes away the originality of the design. If I were going to change the outfit, I'd only tweak it slightly, like so:

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"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Frozen II! Night Thrasher! Justice! Firestar! Speedball!)

Post by Ares »

I've gotta say, one thing I'm grateful for these builds for is they reminded me of how much I loved the old New Warriors series. I actually cracked open my New Warriors Omnibus and have been reading it start to finish. I just wrapped up the storyline where they helped the Fantastic Four and Silver Surfer defeat Terrax, and it's been a lot of fun.

We get some solid character progression as the series goes. Dwayne becomes less of a jerk, Nova embraces more of his classic personality, we get some insight into Namorita's conflict about her human and Atlantean heritage, lots of good stuff. They actually use the Sphinx / Alternate Reality storyline to "tweak" characters a bit, getting Nova back in his classic duds, giving Vance a stealth power up, having Dwayne mellow out a bit, etc. My take with Vance is that his powers were subconsciously limited by his own self-hatred thanks to his father. In that alternate reality he'd been able to develop his abilities to their fullest, and when things switched back, he retained that new level of power.

The Terrax fight showed what fighting a Herald of Galactus should be: a massive undertaking where the odds are stacked against you, even with two superhero teams, one of which showed up with special anti-Herald gear. It also showed what kind of INSANE damage someone with Earth Control can do on that scale. Terrax did the kind of damage that would make the Stamford incident seem paltry by comparison. But you just accepted that between Damage Control and the superheroes helping with the clean up, the damage done was limited and repaired as quickly as could be.

I also liked the bit where Vance saved the pregnant woman's life and she named her son after him. It was a cute way to reaffirm the need for heroes and that the good fight is worth fighting.

There was also this bit of tragedy with Harmon Furmintz, the CEO of Genetech Corporation, accidentally brought Terrax back by trying to access his power, instead becoming a human host Terrax used to rebuild himself. Terrax makes it clear several times that he's inhabiting a human body, which is limiting his ability to travel through space, but they never clarify if Harmon is dead or not. The poor guy just kept missing these chances to gain superpowers and sincerely wanted to use said powers to help humanity, and the idea that he's basically trapped in his own body while Terrax wanders around free is kind of sad.

The series also shows how important a good inker is. Bagley's art early on winds up looking very dreary and drab, until a new inker gives his art much cleaner lines and it really pops. Bagley also showed he could have some fun with character designs, coming up with some nifty new Egyptian themed looks for a lot of heroes. And the whole "goggles" thing is only noticable because Bagley is one of the few guys to give any characters he designs goggles, as a lot of his original creations don't have them. He wasn't even the artist responsible for giving Speedball and Firestar goggles, that was a later artist.

Overall, it's real easy to see why this early part of the series is so beloved. I'm having a blast re-reading it. Though it also shows why you should be careful about what pop culture references and slang you include, because some of this book is REALLY dated. Seeing "NOT!" pop up really reminds you that this was the 90s.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Frozen II! Night Thrasher! Justice! Firestar! Speedball!)

Post by Ares »

I've got to say that one thing that's weird is reading about Gideon in the pages of the Warriors, knowing what would happen to him elsewhere. In the Warriors issue he appears in, Gideon is a nightmare, able to handily defeat the team in a matter of pages. He displays an extreme level of adaptability and creativity with his copied powers, coming up with stunts the Warriors hadn't. He was like if you had taken Synch's ability to come up with clever uses for copied powers and combined them with Mimic's ability to copy multiple powers at one time. The guy looked like he was being built up as some kind of super-powered Justin Hammer, head of his own evil company and being able to take on any superhuman that crossed him.

That issue was my only real exposure to the character, to it's surprising to hear that nothing was done with the guy and he was killed off fairly casually afterwards.
"My heart is as light as a child's, a feeling I'd nearly forgotten. And by helping those in need, I will be able to keep that feeling alive."
- Captain Marvel SHAZAM! : Power of Hope (2000)

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Jabroniville
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Firestar

Post by Jabroniville »

Shock wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:36 am
Ares wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:24 am And like I mentioned with Justice, I hate that Marvel broke the pair up. The two are perfectly fine "team hero" material, even if they can't hold a solo series, and having them as a couple gave them some character. They could have been the "nice couple" of the Marvel Universe, the ones that are friends with a lot of people and who many folks are secretly jealous of. Because really, were writers desperate to break them up to ship the characters with other people?
I think it was more likely that the writer didn't know what to do with them so the easy way to add some drama is to break them up. And since nobody was really invested with the characters, who's going to argue against the easy "solution"?

I like Firestar because 1) I dig redheads and 2) Spiderman and His Amazing Friends hit when I was just the right age and I loved it.
This is mostly likely the correct reason to me- like, "Ah, I dunno- they break up!" so they don't have to write a couple or something. Though it's probably got equal parts of "Insane drama- BREAK UP!".

The funny thing about Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends is that it was so important to so many comic fans, but was so completely out of my era that I was stunned to learn there was a cartoon between the "Jazz Background" 1960s series and the "Weird CGI Backgrounds" 1990s show.
Jabroniville
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Frozen II! Night Thrasher! Justice! Firestar! Speedball!)

Post by Jabroniville »

Thanks for the mini-essays, Ares- I managed to read them over Christmas and such :).

It's odd, because I really enjoy doing this re-build set of the characters, even though I didn't post them that long ago- more like three years, as opposed to the typical "5+ year gap" so I can come up with more stuff. It's just... my bio-writing got a LOT more thorough even over the past few years (likely because it was often the only part of a character's set-up I touched), and many of these characters ran the gamut and showed up in a ton of different books. And for some reason, my old bios often didn't even indicate what I thought of a character.

This also allowed me to try something new- I found that sometimes you can get a lot more comments and notes by posting things SPARINGLY instead of dumping out everyone at once- however tempting it is to blast out the losers like Bolt & Helix in between the "Big Names". I think in the future (now that I've, uh, already re-posted most of the major Marvel characters, lol), I'll probably do that- post bigger names 1-2 per day, and save the losers for spamming.

re: Your Notes:
* I am legitimately quite surprised that you ended up with Speedball as your favorite- Justice seemed like everything you'd ever love in a super-hero, except he isn't a knight. He's the friendliest, most dutiful, politest hero around!

* re: Marvel's depowering Firestar- Fabian IS referring to the era in which we saw both Carol Danvers and Wanda Maximoff HUGELY de-powered (Binary to Warbird was a HUGE drop), though Wanda would of course gain power under Busiek (curiously, while Danvers lost hers). Plus I believe Polaris was de-emphasized fairly often, and even Susan Richards didn't get up to that much crazy stuff until the 2000s.

* re: Gideon: Yeah, Gideon's big push came about because of Rob Liefeld having created him... Nicieza was stuck with the "Externals" thing and actually made a go of it (tying it in to the Legacy Virus thing instead of "let's just manipulate them to grab power!"), but you can tell the later appearances in X-Force were post-Rob because he & Saul were embarrassingly defeated by a rush of like... three X-Force guys. And all they did was drive up in a tank and shoot them with energy once.

* Inkers are weird, because yeah- you never notice how big a deal they are until you see a sucky one. I remember Ken going into the various Justice League inkers, and how much different the art looked. It's very easy to call it an "off night" by the artist. I know John Byrne in particular suffered MASSIVELY without Terry Austin to ink what turned out to be VERY loose and lazy-looking lines.
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Rage

Post by Jabroniville »

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RAGE (Elvin Haliday)
Created By:
Larry Hama & Paul Ryan
First Appearance: The Avengers #326 (Nov. 1990)
Role: Angry Young Black Man, Immature Guy, D-Grade Powerhouse
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The New Warriors, Counter-Force, The Initiative, Psionex
Avengers Grade: D-Level
PL 9 (104)
STRENGTH
10 STAMINA 10 AGILITY 2
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Deception 4 (+4)
Expertise (Pop Culture) 4 (+4)
Intimidation 8 (+9)
Perception 2 (+3)
Ranged Combat (Thrown Stuff) 6 (+6)
Vehicles 2 (+2)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Daze (Intimidation), Diehard, Fast Grab, Improvised Weapon, Interpose, Taunt, Withstand Damage

Powers:
"Radiation Enhanced Physique" Impervious Toughness 7 [7]
Leaping 4 (120 feet) [4]

Offense:
Unarmed +7 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Initiative +2

Defenses:
Dodge +7 (DC 17), Parry +7 (DC 20), Toughness +10 (+4 Impervious), Fortitude +10, Will +6

Complications:
Secret (Only 13 Years Old)
Reputation (Young Punk)- Once his secret is uncovered, the teenageg Elvin is still known as an aggressive, short-sighted kid who is quick to throw the first punch.
Relationship (Grandmother)- Raised by his beloved grandma, Rage is devoted to her, and extremely defensive. She is later killed by a street gang called The Poison Memories as revenge for the New Warriors' actions.

Total: Abilities: 62 / Skills: 26--13 / Advantages: 8 / Powers: 11 / Defenses: 10 (104)

Rage- Avenger For the '90s:
-Rage is one of the shortest-lived, most forgotten Avengers, having a brief run in Larry Hama's Avengers issues, turning up to insult them for their lack of black members and causing a fight, then getting asked to join a couple issues later, after helping the team on some missions (which begs the question as to what kind of recruiting standards do they have when that's all it takes to join the team?). This was a team standby that'd been going on for YEARS- new writers were kind of expected to have the "established" team, then throw on one of their own original characters. This practice became somewhat more bemoaned over time, with accusations of "Mary Sue" and "Pet Character", but it's been a thing for a while. Because he was introduced in 1990, around when I became a fan, I sort of always associated him with this team, even though he wasn't actually on it for very long- he had his "Rookie Card" in the Series II collector card set, and he was on the Avengers during that span as well.

-Elvin Haliday's whole schtick revolved around him being a 13-year old kid in an adult's super-powered body (he found some toxic waste; yeah, his origin is THAT generic), living with his grandma and being in over his head, while acting as an Angry Black Man. Sort of a "chip on his shoulder" kind of thing, but having read a few of Hama's Avengers comics, it's kind of clever how he has this "man on the street" viewpoint of things and can be oddly insightful. For example, he correctly guessed that a "suicide bomb"-sporting Doctor Doom was a Doombot, because the real Doom would NEVER risk his life (Doom was trying to save his mother's soul- Rage, owing to his own relationship with his Grandma, knew that Doom would NEVER sacrifice his life as he was threatening to, because that would have left his mother's soul lost forever).

Rage the New Warrior:
-Hama's run on Avengers wasn't terribly long, and Rage was obviously always going to be a short-lived member. However, an escape plan was immediately introduced when he teamed up with the New Wawrriors in a fight against the racist Sons of the Serpent. During this story, his age was revealed to the Avengers- Captain America offered to keep him on as a trainee, but told him he couldn't go on missions. And pretty soon, Rage was asked by the Warriors to fly them to Cambodia using an Avengers Quinjet- in his brash youth, Rage decided to do so without asking, broke it out of Avengers Mansion with the "Home Base" team (including Peggy Carter) calling after him... and ended up losing it in Cambodia as the Folding Circle took off with it at the end of the story. This was used to write him out of The Avengers for good, as he got socked in the jaw by Hercules and fired from the team.

-Rage, obviously, immediately joined the New Warriors, so he thankfully wasn't totally discarded. He got an all-new costume (though it was HORRIBLE and they dropped it eventually). Here, he adopted more of a "generic guy" persona, acting as a buddy for Speedball. He didn't get a lot of focus, though, and since he missed the peak of the Nicieza/Bagley run, he's often forgotten by fans of the Warriors book- among his only real stories were when he beat his "Infinity War" Clone by absorbing the dark side into himself (confessing that everyone has a little bit of rage inside of them, and he accepts his), and when his grandmother got Refridgeratored, killed by the Poison Memories street gang. Naturally pissed off, he managed not to kill any of the gang, and was later exonerated of the murder of their leader. The Warriors' home-base guy, Chord, became Elvin's legal guardian. Eventually, however, Rage & Night Thrasher left the book, voted out after missing a mission. They became mentors to their former foes in Psionex, but the book faded away, thus ending his run as a major character in anything.

Post-Warriors Rage:
-Rage thus became one of many, MANY characters in the infamous "Character Limbo" of Marvel, which now had superheroes numbering in the hundreds, many of whom were orphaned of their books. He refused to join the second incarnation of the New Warriors, focusing on his studies instead. His former Avengers position was important to the "Morgan Le Fay" story when Kurt Busiek took over The Avengers- accompanied to the Mansion by former teammates Justice & Firestar, he was thus indirectly responsible for them joining as the new "Trainee" characters.

-Other than that, though, it's mostly been nothing for Rage. He appeared on Cap's side in Civil War, and sought She-Hulk's help to avoid being killed by someone hunting the New Warriors for their involvement in the "Stamford Incident" that set off the whole story. He was a minor backgrounder in The Initiative, which dealt with a lot of former New Warriors cast-members- the group's trainer, Gauntlet, using "New Warriors!" as a slur against incompetent trainees, naturally rubbed Elvin the wrong way, and he was a prime suspect in Gauntlet's beating (it turned out to be Slapstick). He was nearly drummed out around that time (he led the squad that broke ranks during World War Hulk and nearly got them all killed), but stuck with it until he quit to join Justice's anti-Initiative "Counter Force" team.

-Following that, it was largely "Background Shots" for Rage, as a somewhat distinctive-looking guy who's also a minority and can thus show some diversity. He became a luchadore with Demolition Man at one point, helped out in a few events like Fear Itself, and shamed Sam "Captain America" Wilson during Civil War II for failing to stand up for the people and fight the Americops (a private security force used by an evil corporation) until it was nearly too late. He apparently shows up a few more time in SamCap's book, helping out the new Falcon in speaking out against anti-immigration policies. However, he is beaten and arrested by the Americops, and actually convicted despite evidence that he wasn't at fault. He was badly beaten in prison by many villains he'd once helped arrest, but miraculously recovered... then had ANOTHER brunsh with death in a later story where a bunch of symbiotes were bonded to heroes, then re-absorbed- he was killed along with D-Man, but both were returned thanks to some Jean Grey nonsense in the same story and he's since popped up in the backgrounds again.

My Take On Rage:
-Truth be told, I actually don't mind Rage all that much- he's a bit of a stereotype (Angry Young Black Man raised by grandma and with a chip on his shoulder about "The Man"), but A) stereotypes exist for a reason- it's not like those people DON'T EXIST, and B) I kinda dig the idea of a Low-End Powerhouse who isn't prone to feat upon feat or overpowering everyone. It's a bit BLAND, of course (he's basically got a low-end version of the most-common power-set in comics, and Luke Cage Lite at that), but his argumentative nature means he fits in well with most teams as a guy who can create conflict. Also, it helps that as a young fan, Rage was the first "Rookie Avenger" I was aware of- thus to me, like Quasar, Rage was basically ALWAYS an Avenger, and thus holds a special place in my own personal head-canon. He's not a FAVOURITE of mine by any stretch, but he's a character I don't mind that could have had some potential, especially as comics went further away from "Super-Fights". It looks like he was actually used a lot in SamCap's book until he was used as a token Hero Death in another story.

Rage's Powers:
-Rage is a PL 8.5 Powerhouse, being pretty bare-bones and weak compared to the elites- he can't deal damage compared to guys like Hercules & the Hulk at all, but he can do plenty of damage to Mooks. He's fairly inexperienced (despite being a hero for twenty full real-life years by this point), since he's spent HUGE chunks of time in Marvel Limbo, and was a standard Initiative Recruit (themselves a group of PL 6-9s) until recently. I kind of find that interesting, as the modern tendency is to "Power Geek" all the new characters and make them super-awesome while others shill them (ie. to the readers), so he comes off as somewhat unique and interesting for being barely in the powerhouse class at all.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Frozen II! Night Thrasher! Justice! Firestar! Speedball!)

Post by Sidious »

Man, all these New Warrior builds are making me want to update the Marvel stats for them.

Most of them have impressive, if dreadful, histories and updates. I think Rage and the Stamford team are they only ones to have been sacrificed and at least 3 of the Stamford team have made it back to the land of the living. Way better ratio than the Teen Titans.

maybe some updates are due....
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Frozen II! Night Thrasher! Justice! Firestar! Speedball!)

Post by Woodclaw »

Oh boy, these are a bunch of characters that I've never even touched, which is kind of weird: personally I blame their weird publishing story over here. See, throughout the '80 and until 1994 the publishing rights of Marvel characters were split between two publishers: Star Comics (whose editors went on to form Marvel Italia in 1994) and Play Press (that also published almost everything DC comics). This situatyion created an infinite number of problems, continuity hiccups and other weirdness, compounded by the fact that both editors (Play Press a bit more) had the habit of 'jumping' filler issues and stories considered of inferior quality.
The first appearences of the New Warriors were published by Play Press in 1993, as an appendix to their final issues of Thor. This made those stories extremely hard to find. Due to some leftover licensing issues, when Marvel Italia started publishing the New Warriors as a stand-alone series, they had to pick it up from when Play Press left... which wasn't a good thing at all! A couple of years later, Marvel Italia published a collected edition with all the Warriors first stories.
All of this made extremely difficult for me getting into the series. At the time, I had no idea who most of these characters were (Darkhawk and Firestar were the only two I had a passing familiarity with).

Ok, with that out of the way on to the characters.

Night Trasher
First and foremost, I have to agree with Spidey: Dwayne's codename sound like something a bad heavy metal garage band would use. Given that Night Trasher is a real mixed bag, I really like the design, the very utilitarian arsenal and the fact that he's an armored martial artist (kind of rare breed), but I find his personality extremely off-putting. Admitedly I've only seen Trasher in action when he co-starred in other comics (for example the "Midnight Saga" on Spider-man), but the general feeling was that he was really like a teenager version of Batman: brooding, confident to the point of being cocky, unwilling to listen to anyone but himself and, generally, always looking for a fight. It's very likely that was a consequence of those stories were written, but it didn't help me like the character one bit.

Silhouette
I really got nothing here. My only exposure to Sil was Infinity Crusade, when she was the "pet" of the Goddess, chosen as one of the heroes with enough religious conviction to help her crazy ass plan. As you can imagine, that particular characterization didn't make me a fan of her at all.

Justice
Vance is a character that really deserves better stories and effort. I remember finding one of the issues with him imprisoned at the Vault and being completely blown away by the fact that he solved a prisoner riot by pretty much being nice to a bunch of C and D league supercriminals. That story alone was a really breath of fresh air and it should have been a much more prominent element in his later characterization... but it wasn't. Even Kurt Busiek (which is a real scholar of comic book continuity) worked him from a compeltely different angle, which was integral to the character as well, but way less interesting. The entirely bonkers origin story of Vance actually put an enormous weight on his shoulder, since he was somehow supposed to be the guy that would, one day, take up the legacy of Captain America and the Avengers in a future that has forgetten all about superheroes. In this sense I can buy that he would be absolutely star-struck at the idea of being an Avenger, but I think they tried to milk that particular idea a bit too long (it was still way better than having Cannonball downgraded during his X-Men run).

Firestar
I have only one question: how on Earth somebody thought that giving Angelica a shy big sis personality? On one hand it's actually a brilliant departure from the stereotypes about redheads and fire-based characters; on the other it's really weird to see a character that was supposedly a merge of Johnny Storm and Mary-Jane Watson turned into a timid wallflower. Like Vance, I think that Angelica suffered from the fact that her personality doesn't exactly lend itself easily to dramma and dark storylines... which led to the next point.
A little side-note, as far as I'm concerned the idea of a microwaves-absed hero is, quite possibly, the best variation on a theme for fire-based powers.

Vance & Angelica as a couple
If there is one thing that I really found weird and unexplicable is the decision of splitting Vance and Angelica. The two of them were one of the few really well-adjusted couple, both had easygoing personalities and were actually way more mature than their supposed age. In many ways they reminded me a lot of Scott Free and Big Barda: a couple that works not because both are superheroes but in spite of that.

Speedball
Robbie was a character I never really liked or understood (looking and behaving way too goofy for his own good), until I read the issue about his parents and, all of the sudden, something clicked putting everything into perspective. Out of the three Warriors that got inspired by Spidey (Nova, Darkhawk and Speedball), Robbie was the one that took the lesson closer to the heart: putting on a brave (and silly) face, while trying to keep things together. This would really resonate with me many years later, when I struggled with depression and it's the reason why I really hate the entire concept of Penance.
I'm not going to make a tirade here, but the simple idea of Robbie accepting the idea of a superhero Reality Show was just character assassination by itself, but what came next was just someone shitting all over the place. I can totally believe that after something like that Robbie would spiral down, but what their pulled out was a story that neither good for the character, nor a good commentary on depression.

Rage
Ugh... Rage is really a character that was more or less short of a good idea. As Jab observed, he was really generic and it didn't help that his main element (being a kid in the body of an adult) was more or less lost when he transfered from the Avengers to the Warriors. In my book, what Rage really needed was a mentor character, which he kind of got in Falcon-as-Cap (which would have been my second choice after Luke Cage).
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Namorita

Post by Jabroniville »

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I... may have a weakness for Blue Namorita.

NAMORITA (Namorita Prentiss, aka Kymaera)
Created By:
Bill Everett
First Appearance: Sub-Mariner #50 (June 1972)
Role: Namor With Boobs, The Tough Chick, Miss Fanservice
Group Affiliations: The New Warriors, S.U.R.F., The Defenders, The Council of Three, The Fantastic Four
PL 10 (143), PL 11 (143) When Aquatic
STRENGTH
10/12 STAMINA 10/12 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+6)
Athletics 2 (+12)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 3 (+10)
Deception 2 (+5, +7 Attractive)
Expertise (History) 2 (+3)
Insight 3 (+4)
Intimidation 4 (+7)
Perception 4 (+5)
Persuasion 2 (+5, +7 Attractive)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Attractive, Diehard, Fast Grab, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Improved Grab, Move-By Action, Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Winged Feet"
Flight 8 (500 mph) (16) -- [17]
  • AE: Swimming 10 (500 mph) (10)
"Atlantean/Human Hybrid"
Immunity 4 (Aging, Drowning, Cold, Pressure) [4]
Movement 1 (Environmental Adaptation- Aquatic) [2]
Senses 1 (Low-Light Vision) [1]

"Improved Underwater Stats" (All with Flaws: Limited to Underwater/When Soaked)
Enhanced Strength 2 [2]
Power-Lifting 1 (200 tons) [1]
Enhanced Stamina 2 [2]
Impervious Toughness 6 [3]

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Aquatic +10 (+12 Damage, DC 27)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +10 (+12 Wet), Fortitude +10 (+12 Wet), Will +6

Complications:
Responsibility (Atlantis)- Namorita is a member of the Royal Family of Atlantis, which makes her the target of a never-ending line of usurpers.
Responsibility (Human/Atlantean Hybrid)- Namorita's racial make-up often becomes an issue with her people.
Power Loss (Wings)- Namorita can lose her Flight if the tiny wings on her feet are damaged or disabled.
Weakness (Lack of Water)- If left without water, Namorita will grow progressively weaker. After a long period of time, she will becoming Fatigued, Impaired, Disabled, Stunned, etc. (in addition to dropping Strength & Stamina consistently).
Relationship (Nova, Human Torch)- Namorita's been around the block a couple of times, but has only had two serious suitors.

Total: Abilities: 72 / Skills: 24--12 / Advantages: 13 / Powers: 32 / Defenses: 14 (143)

Namorita- Another Girl Version of a Male Hero:
-Namorita's a side Sub-Mariner character given new life as part of the "find unused teenage heroes" directive of Fabian Nicieza, gaining almost as much recognition as her more famous cousin during the 1990s. Her origin is so weird the New Warriors book pretty much never mentions it- she is the daughter of the Golden Age Heroine Namora, who was Namor's cousin, but was sterile, much to the chagrin of her husband, Talan. So she, uh, had an Atlantean scientist named Vyrra impregnate her with her own clone, and she gave birth to Namorita, just as Talan died in a nuclear explosion- Namora thus raised Namorita in Lemuria. Then Namora died, because the '70s writers were like "nah, f*ck that noise" regarding her existence, but they wanted the cute, "Supergirl"-esque Teen Sidekick thing going on. So she just pops up in Namor's feature book in 1972, written by Bill Everett, who at least created the original character himself. The "clone" stuff of course came later- Namorita at first claimed to just be Namora's long-lost daughter.

-Namorita was manipulated by baddies Llyra & Byrrah against Namor, as they'd promised to destroy Namora's dead body. Eventually, she allied with Namor, but soon developed a crush on him (EW!). She met Namor's human friend/ex Betty Dean Prentiss, sort of being adopted by the woman, who took Namorita under her wing until she herself was killed by Dr. Dorcas, another Namor foe. She later became guardian to Wundarr the Aquarian for a time, but largely disappeared from comics during the 1980s.

Namorita the New Warrior:
-Namorita would later be completely defined by her later appearance in The New Warriors. Here, she was a bright, confident, modern type of woman, recruited by Night Thrasher for his new superhero team. Meanwhile, Namor had his own title again, and so Namorita joined the supporting cast of THAT, with Byrne being a fair bit annoyed that Fabian Nicieza also had writing privileges on her- Nicieza admits that he was at first unable to do what he wanted with her, noting very carefully that a career in Communications and experience had taught him some important lessons: "even in my early thirties, I knew how the industry worked, how PEOPLE worked, and how people like THAT worked". So it took him a few years to get anything of significance for Namorita- it was just clear that she was the strongest and most durable person on her team, the oldest by far (though young by Atlantean standards), and... well, let's just say she was really willing to wear swimsuits as a costume- she IS Namor's cousin, after all- exhibitionism runs in the family. And you can't say swimsuits aren't practical! SHE IS LITERALLY A SWIMMER WEARING A SUIT FOR SWIMMING!

-So Namorita stuck around as a kind of a smarty-pants girl hero, but was actually kind of fun on the series. Not just a one-note "Bitch" or "Valley Girl" character, she was flirty and fun-loving sure, but she wasn't some bimbo or skank, and she had good reasons for acting the way she did. She was more mature than she let on, and even told Firestar about playing "different roles", like being deferential to Cousin Namor, and a more fun role on the Warriors. The two had kind of an interesting "Sisters" kind of thing going on, since they were both so different. Meanwhile, she also kind of hooked up with Nova, who was sometimes okay when he wasn't being the Team Dumbass.

-Later NW books shook things up a bit- with Night Thrasher on leave for his solo book, Namorita is the de facto leader of the team, and largely makes a mess of things, unable to juggle all the personalities or plan well for battles. A fight in a foreign country turns into a mess, as a rebel leader executes a military junta leader who was favorable towards the United States and has to answer for it (she more or less goes "yeah I might have screwed that up. But I'm not even an American citizen, so what are you gonna do?"). It was apparently only HERE that she realized that she was a clone of Namora, birthed by the now-dead woman- the stress from that and her past mission, AND ruling Atlantis while Namor was away, caused her to get drunk at a nightclub, sleep around for a bit, and get into bed with a criminal who used information in her apartment to get the other Warriors' families kidnapped. Guilt over this situation caused her to leave the team.

Namorita Gone Blue:
-Here, Nicieza finally created his ultimate tale for her- having broken her down, he had her reborn- the DNA spliced into her at birth combined with an over-saturation of oxygen, making her change into a blue-skinned woman, akin to the original Atlanteans! Except she retained her blonde hair, so she became SUPER MEGA-HOT, changing her name to Kymaera. Later, however, she was covered with pus-filled boils, and, infuriated by Nova's late assertion that he still liked her, took a shower... revealing her original pink skin. She gained a few new powers (burning acid and paralytic toxins could be released from her skin), and the New Warriors book was cancelled- she later showed up in the new one wearing a white version of her costume with some fishnets (fairly boring, and made her look like just about anyone, really), but it too died, and she later appeared briefly in The Fantastic Four as Johnny Storm's new girlfriend.

-The character would later suffer along with the rest of the New Warriors when the "Reality TV" Limited Series came out- a newly-blue-again (Marvel forgets her transformations as much as they do Tiger Shark's, I think) Namorita was one of the members, and was later killed in The Stamford Incident. With Night Thrasher, she is one of only two of the original Warriors slain in the blast, but was kinda-resurrected in the cheapest way possible in the pages of Nova- with Richard Rider now gaining a huge place of prominence in the Marvel Universe, he was thrown into a "Time-Tossed" caper with The Sphinx, and managed to rescue a time-displaced version of "Nita", and brings her to the present. Curiously and bizarrely, the character all but vanishes at the exact same moment Dan Abnett & Andy Lanning brought her back, as the Nova book was cancelled at the end of their run on Marvel's Cosmic scene, resulting in Nova getting trapped within the "Cancerverse" for several years. She misses out on the most recent New Warriors reboot, doesn't show up for any of the current Namor-related stuff in Avengers, and I would bet MONEY that nobody at Marvel even realizes she's alive right now.

Namorita's Powers:
-Basically, 'Nita's a PL 10, lower-level version of Namor. She's nowhere near as strong or as tough, but she's a decent Brick in that she's relatively well-balanced. Like Namor, she's much better in the water, but since she's on a land-based team, she doesn't get to use it that often (if playing a "New Warriors" campaign, GMs may want to either ignore that or let it slide, based off of how useful it might end up being). She's Namor-Lite even on the Skills & Advantages, lacking his killer instinct. Not sure why a girl version of Namor is SO MUCH LESS POWERFUL, but that's comics (and the nature of Super-Teams, where everyone has to contribute) for ya.

Here's some of the side powers she's developed over time (most of these get dropped):

"Camouflage" Concealment (Visuals) 2 (Flaws: Partial) [2]
"Paralytic Secretions" Affliction 7 (Fort; Fatigued/Exhausted/Paralyzed) (Extras: Reaction +3) (28) -- [29]
  • AE: "Corrosive Acid" Weaken Toughness 5 (Extras: Reaction +3) Linked to Damage 4 (Extras: Reaction +3) (27)
This'd make her PL 10 (174) overall- a much more effective character.

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NAMORITA (Namorita Prentiss)- New Warriors Era
Created By:
Bill Everett
First Appearance: Sub-Mariner #50 (June 1972)
Role: Namor With Boobs, The Tough Chick, Miss Fanservice
Group Affiliations: The New Warriors, S.U.R.F., The Defenders, The Council of Three, The Fantastic Four
PL 9 (132), PL 10 (132) When Aquatic
STRENGTH
10/11 STAMINA 9/10 AGILITY 4
FIGHTING 7 DEXTERITY 0
INTELLIGENCE 1 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 3

Skills:
Acrobatics 2 (+6)
Athletics 2 (+12)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 1 (+8)
Deception 2 (+5, +7 Attractive)
Expertise (History) 2 (+3)
Insight 3 (+4)
Intimidation 4 (+7)
Perception 4 (+5)
Persuasion 2 (+5, +7 Attractive)

Advantages:
Attractive, Diehard, Fast Grab, Improved Grab, Move-By Action, Ranged Attack 6

Powers:
"Mutant Powers: Winged Feet"
Flight 8 (500 mph) (16) -- [17]
  • AE: Swimming 10 (500 mph) (10)
"Atlantean/Human Hybrid"
Immunity 4 (Aging, Drowning, Cold, Pressure) [4]
Movement 1 (Environmental Adaptation- Aquatic) [2]
Senses 1 (Low-Light Vision) [1]

"Improved Underwater Stats" (All with Flaws: Limited to Underwater/When Soaked)
Enhanced Strength 1 [1]
Power-Lifting 1 (100 tons) [1]
Enhanced Stamina 1 [1]
Impervious Toughness 6 [3]

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Aquatic +8 (+11 Damage, DC 26)
Initiative +4

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +10 (+12 Wet), Fortitude +9 (+10 Wet), Will +6

Complications:
Responsibility (Atlantis)- Namorita is a member of the Royal Family of Atlantis, which makes her the target of a never-ending line of usurpers.
Responsibility (Human/Atlantean Hybrid)- Namorita's racial make-up often becomes an issue with her people.
Power Loss (Wings)- Namorita can lose her Flight if the tiny wings on her feet are damaged or disabled.
Weakness (Lack of Water)- If left without water, Namorita will grow progressively weaker. After a long period of time, she will becoming Fatigued, Impaired, Disabled, Stunned, etc. (in addition to dropping Strength & Stamina consistently).
Relationship (Nova, Human Torch)- Namorita's been around the block a couple of times, but has only had two serious suitors.

Total: Abilities: 70 / Skills: 22--11 / Advantages: 11 / Powers: 30 / Defenses: 10 (132)

-Namorita from the New Warriors-era is only a couple steps back from her "Modern" Self (dropping some accuracy & Defenses to make the team-standard PL 9, dropping All-Out & Improved Critical to show lesser experience), and still quite powerful overall. She seemed to take a lot of beatings over the years in that book, about as many as dunderheaded Nova- I have an issue of Secret Defenders where she spends the entire time in traction because some villain beat her up, too.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Justice! Firestar! Speedball! Rage! Namorita!)

Post by Ares »

One thing I noticed about the New Warriors is that it's actually kind of hard to get a feel for how strong Nova, Rage and Namorita are. Nova and Namorita have feats of strength like throwing train cars at the juggernaut, they ripped apart the armored doors of the Avengers hanger, and Nova was shown doing things like casually juggling cars using one hand per-car to get Darkhawk's attention. Namorita seemed to be roughly on par with 90s Warpath, who was X-Force's brick at the time. It was made clear that Namorita was stronger than Nova, and stronger than baseline Rage, but when Rage tapped into his anger, he got a Hulk-like boost that let him hit harder than Nita.

But you rarely had the kind of scenes you'd see in other books where the Warriors would do weight testing to get their Marvel Handbook ton scale or see them get into strength tests with other established heroes. You get the idea that Nova, Nita and Rage were all stronger than Spider-Man, and Nova was weaker than Nita and Rage, but those two could be anywhere from Ben Grimm level to Class 50/Classic Rogue level.
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:05 pm

Re: Jab’s Builds! (Justice! Firestar! Speedball! Rage! Namorita!)

Post by Jabroniville »

I think that was a regular Nicieza thing- his Rogue & Beast were always vaguely strong, too. Cable, Shatterstar & Feral were all super-strong, but at such "meh" levels that you could have easily missed it. It seems similar to the Wolfman Teen Titans, where it was utterly impossible to figure out the strength levels of Wonder Girl, Starfire & Cyborg. Hell, I notably pointed out many times that I didn't think Starfire was super-strong AT ALL until modern times, save for a single page in TT where she grabs a huge spear and kills a giant with it.
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Justice! Firestar! Speedball! Rage! Namorita!)

Post by Jabroniville »

haha, DAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw5IA66RDWc

Record producer (mainly in hip-hop) reacts to Into the Unknown. I love how he's so into the production aspect that when Idina hits the high notes he's like "Wow I love those strings" and "OOH- that brass section!", but it's adorable how he totally marks out to the song's production values. AND he gets the "somewhere she doesn't want to be" thing just from the song (he's seen neither Frozen).
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Nova (Richard Rider)

Post by Jabroniville »

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NOVA I (Richard Rider, aka Nova Prime)
Created By:
Marv Wolfman & John Buscema
First Appearance: Nova #1 (Sept. 1976)
Role: The Last Hope of the Galaxy, Former Dunderheaded Hero, Cosmic Hero
Group Affiliations: The Avengers, The New Warriors, The Nova Corps., The United Front
Avengers Grade: D-Level (very brief run)
PL 13 (261)
STRENGTH
2/14 STAMINA 3/12 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 1 PRESENCE 1

Skills:
Aerobatics 3 (+6)
Close Combat (Unarmed) 2 (+10)
Expertise (Current Events) 3 (+3)
Insight 3 (+4)
Intimidation 6 (+7)
Notice 3 (+4)
Persuasion 3 (+4)
Ranged Combat (Gravimetric Blasts) 3 (+10)
Technology 2 (+2)
Vehicles 4 (+6)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Benefit 5 (Full Access to Xandarian Worldmind), Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Improved Critical (Gravimetric Blast), Improved Initiative, Interpose, Power Attack, Taunt

Powers:
"Nova Prime Access to Nova Force"
Protection 1 (Extras: Impervious 15) [16]
Flight 10 (2,000 mph) [21]
Movement 2 (Space Travel 2) [4]
Enhanced Stamina 9 [18]

"Force Wave" Damage 13 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Burst +2) (46) -- [60]
  • Dynamic AE: "Gravimetric Force" Blast 16 (Feats: Dynamic, Penetrating 6) (39)
  • Dynamic AE: "Force Line" Damage 13 (Feats: Penetrating 6) (Extras: Area- 60ft. Line +2) (46)
  • Dynamic AE: "Boost Stats to Class 400" Enhanced Strength 12 (24)
  • Dynamic AE: "Groundstrike" Affliction 13 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 13 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (16)
  • Dynamic AE: "Gravity Control" Move Object 13 (Extras: Perception Range) (Flaws: Limited to Up or Down) (2)
  • Dynamic AE: "High Gravity" Environment 5 (Impede Movement x2) (11)
  • Dynamic AE: Force Field 4 (Extras: Affects Others 13, Impervious 4) (Flaws: Immobile -2) (18)
"Worldmind Powers"
"Datalink" Communication (Computers) 2 [10]
"Attention Richard Rider! It Is Imperative That You Pay Attention At This Time!" Senses 1 (Danger Sense) [1]
Immunity 10 (Mental Effects) (Flaws: Limited to Half-Effect) [5]

"Nova Uniform" (Flaws: Removable) [28]
Senses 7 (Extended Vision 2 & Infravision, Detect Energy- Acute, Ranged & Tracking) (7)
Immunity 9 (Life Support- Starvation) (9)
Communication 3 (Radio) (Flaws: Distracting) (12)
"Open Stargates" Teleport 20 (Extras: Extended Only +0) (Flaws: Distracting, Requires Medium- Stargates, Limited to Other Stargates) (5)
Features 1: Quick Change (1)
-- (34 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +10 (+2 Damage, DC 17)
Unarmed Boosted +10 (+14 Damage, DC 29)
Gravimetric Blast +10 (+16 Ranged Damage, DC 31)
Force Waves +13 Area (+13 Damage, DC 28)
Groundstrike +13 Area (+13 Affliction, DC 23)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +10 (DC 20), Parry +10 (DC 20), Toughness +3 (+13 Stamina Boost, +17 Force Field), Fortitude +6 (+14 Nova Power), Will +8

Complications:
Responsibility (Earth)
Responsibility (Last Nova Corps Member Alive)- Richard Rider is the sole survivor of the Xandarian Nova Corps., and tries to continue the legacy with his new recruits, including his brother.
Responsibility (The Xandarian Worldmind)- The Worldmind is argumentative and loud, and can drive the wielder insane if he doesn't spread it around to the various other Nova Corps members.
Enemy (The Sphinx)
Relationship (Gamora)- The two hooked up during the war against The Phalanx, but kind of split up when they were in different books.
Relationship (Namorita)- Richard flirted with her constantly during The New Warriors, and apparently she finally stopped being disgusted by him and hooked up with him. He later helped resurrect her in more modern times.

Total: Abilities: 40 / Skills: 32--16 / Advantages: 13 / Powers: 172 / Defenses: 20 (261)

The Man Called Nova- "Peter Parker" Character:
-Nova was created by Marv Wolfman & Len Wein for a fanzine Super Adventures in 1966, but they brought him into the Marvel Universe (renaming him "Nova" from his previous names of "The Star" and later "Black Nova") proper in 1976, thus giving up the rights. In this form, he was yet another Peter Parker Clone (in concept, not *shudder* Ben Reilly)- an alliterative-named Everyday Teenager given super-powers and super-responsibility, with the addition of portions of the Green Lantern mythos (the army of Space Cops, a fatally-wounded one of which giving Richard his powers). He gained Spider-Man-tier powers, fought various loser villains like Diamondhead & Powerhouse, as well as the super-powerful Sphinx. Richard Rider is given the powers by the "last remaining" Nova Corps member (an alien hailing from the planet Xandar), and fights as a super-hero while initially hiding it from his family- later, he reveals his identity to them.

-The Man Called Nova lasted a mere 25 issues, and failed to set the world on fire, being cancelled. Unfortunately, that era nearly killed Marvel due to lack of sales until Star Wars saved them, so Nova basically vanished. Wolfman decided to do what writers ALWAYS do, and trotted his pet character to another book- since he was writing The Fantastic Four at the time, he wrapped up Nova's various subplots in an eight-issue arc of that series, featuring most of his villains & allies used as Mooks, and Galactus putting a whupping on The Sphinx. His duties completed, Rider relinquishes his powers and returns to Earth, a normal teenager. Oh, and Xandar is blown up, because that happens if you're a C-tier character and your homeworld has a name but also doesn't matter (see Princess Koriand'r).

Nova- New Warrior:
-Nova wouldn't reappear until almost TWENTY YEARS LATER, when the New Warriors creators went searching for unused teenage heroes, and he stuck around off-and-on since then. However, in this form, The Man Called Nova fans were angered to learn that the creative team (Fabian Nicieza & Mark Bagley) had basically given Richard Rider an entirely-new personality- that of Team Doofus. A more jockish, buffoonish Nova was now jumping to conclusions, diving headfirst into combat, and flirting with anything that moves (especially his teammate, Namorita)- the justification was that he'd missed part of High School due to his super-heroic activities, and compensated by acting like a buffoon out of insecurity, but this was still a far cry from the failed '70s hero. Seriously, I read a bunch of Fan Letters haranguing Nicieza in particular for this character assassination- the kind of "change the character to fit the story" thing that annoys a lot of readers.

-He DOES get a big focus story when The Sphinx returns, re-writing history so that he defeats the Hebrew Sorceror Moses centuries ago, making the modern world an Egyptian-themed one. Nova (an Avenger in that world, where he is a minority) fights back and is instrumental in beating his old nemesis- it's one of the high water marks of the book, and paints Nova in a really strong light. Nova even got released as a solo book between 1994 & 1995, lasting eighteen issues! Eventually, Nova and Namorita dated, him accepting her uber-hot blue form as well (it's funny how they paint this as her being angsty when clearly she's still MEGA-HOT), but they break up when he's a bit slow on the draw when she asks if his feelings have changed when she's temporarily disfigured by ugly sores. They never really get back together- both appear on the failed New Warriors reboot a couple years later, but both incarnations of the team split up. Nova- The Human Rocket came out and failed within seven issues in 1999, as well.

Annihilation/Nova Gets Pushed:
-Nova of all people ended up being a BIG, BIG CHARACTER all of a sudden, when a trio of writers (Dan Abnett, Andy Lanning & Keith Giffen) all got together to write a mega-event in space titled Annihilation. Richard Rider, sent back to Xandar (which was since rebuilt in a minor bit of "oh, whatever") to learn about the encroaching "Annihilation Wave" of Annihilus and his Negative Zone bugs... ends up being the sole survivor, as the ENTIRE PLANET is destroyed by these monsters, slaughtering the entire Corps but Nova himself. And then he ends up being possessed by their "Worldmind", which now has to live on just in him- this boosts him to INSANE Power Levels (going from Spidey-level to Herald-level overnight), at the risk of his own sanity, thus giving us paired "Power Geeking" and "Heroic Actions", as Nova could possibly sacrifice his own life, but gets to look awesome doing it.

-Make no mistake, Annihilation was Nova's story. Sure, it re-debuted Drax, made Ronan the Accuser important again, and featured a buttload of other under-utilized cosmic characters, but Richard Rider was the hero of the Annihilation War, he killed Annihilus with his bare-freakin'-hands (yanking his heart out through his mouth), and he got one of the biggest power-boosts in comics history at the same time. Taking what was once a do-nothing, dropped Peter Parker homage from a swack of failed series (the '70s run & and various failed New Warriors books) and making a reasonably popular ongoing book by Abnett & Lanning (DnA to their fans) was completely unexpected, but appreciated. What made it funnier was that in the meantime, the "New Warriors" name was dragged through the mud and several of its members killed off during Civil War, which was a much-hated Event Story at the time, causing Nova to arrive on Earth and go "WTF?" at what everyone was doing, tell them to F off, and fly back to space. Annihilation was very popular AND respected, creating a further contrast between the Events.

Nova Continues On; Disappears:
-Since most of the Annihilation series was based around building up one or two names and giving them a spin-off book when the Event ended, Nova was soon joined by the new Guardians of the Galaxy, sharing a universe with them after they defeated the forces of Ultron and the Phalanx (Nova spent much of it endangered by the Transmode Virus). In his own book, he engages in a lot of shenanigans, such as watching the Worldmind rebuild the Nova Corps against his will, recruiting both Ego the Living Planet and Rider's own BROTHER to the group, and gets Nova to sneakily resurrect his ex-girlfriend Namorita via time travel. He even briefly joined the "Secret Avengers" (a Secret Defenders-like book with a rotating cast) for four issues.

-Unfortunately, as time dragged on, so too did the sales falter, and they ended in a pretty shoddy story involving Thanos, a "Cancerverse" (a repetition of DnA's Games Workshop/Warhammer stuff, just changing the name of The Chaos Warp), and an evil Mar-Vell. Nova was "killed off" at the end, with his fate unknown, especially since Star Lord made it back from the same situation. A new Nova series, featuring a recruit named Sam Alexander as a new "Everyday Kid", since came out and was surprisingly popular (since he was both replacing a beloved character AND was being written by Jeph Loeb), and it was eventually revealed that Rider had survived- he escapes the "Fault" with Sam's help (the Fault was possessing him and allowing "Cancerverse" people to invade our universe through his body, now a portal between worlds), finally reuniting with his family (his father had died while he was away, however).

Nova as a Whole:
-Richard "Don't Call Me Dick" Rider is an interesting character in that his initial form is a thrown away 1970s character protected only by Marv Wolfman... and then he became a Dunderhead Hero for the duration of the 1990s (though Erik Larsen liked and pushed him at first)... and then out of nowherer was chosen as a brand-new, heavily-pushed mega-hero in the new millennium, becoming a high water mark of Marvel in the 2000s. This was hilariously bizarre given what'd came before, but was done about as well as could be imagined. Abnett & Lanning really did a lot of hard work to put the character over, and he was really successful for a number of years. It was only DnA's faltering writing, Event Fatigue (War of Kings is largely when fans stopped caring about the "Cosmic Events", and the "Cancerverse" story didn't help), and the fad wearing off that killed him, and unfortunately lost us a big hero. He was really just DnA's baby, and without them, he was done. The Nova Corps. themselves showed up in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but were treated as a regular police force with cool spaceships in Guardians of the Galaxy, which showcased them through John C. Reilly's "Normal Guy" character who was so minor that he was forgotten for every follow-up sequel set in the MCU- Rider himself has never appeared.

-Personally, I find the power-set horribly generic, but once he got Power-Geeked up he wasn't so bad (it's interesting to shake up the "upper tiers" of Marvel's power-sets, throwing him & Carol Danvers into the pack made things better, in my opinion).

Nova's Powers:
-Nova's tough to nail down as an exact level, as are a LOT of cosmic guys, because a lot of them only fight each OTHER, and not Marvel's standard heroes and villains. Nova's strong enough at full-tilt to basically fly THROUGH a massive star cruiser with the full Nova Force (this build represents him as he is normally- now that the power is more drawn-out), he can hit light speeds, and he can boost his strength to unknown levels (likely well beyond a Class 100's). I went with my standard "Powerful Guy" build plus a bit, a PL 13. He's tough enough to hang with Thor, Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange and any other tough guy, but would need to get lucky to take out Thanos or Darkseid. Seems about right to me. He`s notably weaker defensively (PL 11.5), which also feels right- like a lot of Bricks, he takes a LOT of hits, but generally keeps going.

-Regarding the Worldmind and it's benefits- I figure 5 ranks of Benefit is good enough. The thing essentially knows a little bit about everything, but can't just tell him anything he needs to know at once, like Cosmic Awareness would. It boosts a few other powers and feeds him info. About his Strength being Alt-ed off of his Blast- I'm not normally a fan of that kind of thing, but in this case, it's explicitly laid-out in-universe that his Gravimetrics can be splayed out Dynamically into any one category of his power. So despite being a rather cheap way to get a sweet load of powers at the same time, he has it.

Image
Image

NOVA I (Richard Rider)- circa The New Warriors
Created By:
Marv Wolfman & John Buscema
First Appearance: Nova #1 (Sept. 1976)
Role: Dunderheaded Hero
Group Affiliations: The New Warriors, The Nova Corps.
PL 9 (119)
STRENGTH
2/10 STAMINA 3/9 AGILITY 3
FIGHTING 8 DEXTERITY 2
INTELLIGENCE 0 AWARENESS 0 PRESENCE 0

Skills:
Aerobatics 3 (+6)
Intimidation 6 (+7)
Notice 2 (+3)
Ranged Combat (Gravimetric Blasts) 3 (+10)
Technology 2 (+2)
Vehicles 4 (+6)

Advantages:
All-Out Attack, Fast Grab, Great Endurance, Interpose, Power Attack, Taunt

Powers:
"Nova Prime Access to Nova Force"
Flight 7 (250 mph) [14]
Movement 2 (Space Travel 2) [4]
Enhanced Strength 8 [16]
Enhanced Stamina 6 [12]

"Groundstrike" (AE of Strength-Damage) [1]
  • AE: Affliction 9 (Dodge; Hindered/Prone) (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited Degree, Instant Recovery, Limited to Grounded Targets) Linked to Damage 5 (Extras: Area- 30ft. Burst) (Flaws: Limited to Objects) (9)
"Nova Uniform" (Flaws: Removable) [10]
Senses 3 (Extended & Infravision, Radio) (3)
Immunity 9 (Life Support- Starvation) (9)
-- (12 points)

Offense:
Unarmed +8 (+10 Damage, DC 25)
Groundstrike +9 Area (+9 Affliction, DC 19)
Initiative +3

Defenses:
Dodge +8 (DC 18), Parry +8 (DC 18), Toughness +3 (+9 Stamina Boost), Fortitude +4/+10, Will +4

Complications:
Reputation (Idiot)- Nova's grown into quite the fool by this point, having skipped the last few Grades of High School, and his teammates know him as a generally dopey character.

Total: Abilities: 36 / Skills: 20--10 / Advantages: 6 / Powers: 57 / Defenses: 10 (119)

-Nova in his New Warriors era was controversial for his fans, as Fabian Nicieza basically put a completely different character out there, sharing the name, origins, etc. of the original hero. Yeah, a complete Character Derailment. This dunderheaded savage was MUCH weaker than the full-on Nova Force packing later version, lacking even Energy Blasts, making him a generic low-level Flying Brick. He's tough, but only PL 9 on offense and PL 8.5 on defense, as I've seen him go down to TONS of attacks in all the New Warriors books I have.
Last edited by Jabroniville on Thu Jul 21, 2022 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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M4C8
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Re: Jab’s Builds! (Firestar! Speedball! Rage! Namorita! Nova!)

Post by M4C8 »

I always liked Nova and came to love him as of Annihilation, he's one of those powerful Marvel heroes that I feel should get more respect, also the friendship between Nova and Quasar (Vaughn), another powerful yet underused character, was great. I even liked that Nova and Gamora were a couple so was a bit annoyed that she and Star-Lord recently declared their love for each other in the GOTG book.

I've also always liked Speedball, I can't pinpoint a specifc reason why though, his powers are original at least.

As for Rage, well I dislike his look and while his ultra 90's costume is just that 'ultra 90's', I still prefer it to the silly tight leather and yellow ski mask. His power level is difficult to pin down, for years he was shown to be quite powerful with bio's stating he had class 85 strength at his basline but could reach the equivalent of 100 tons when used in a violent or agressive manner (which basically mean't he could lift up to 85 tons but could strike at the higher levels), he also had high level durability, enhanced speed (in short bursts like the Rhino) and a faster tha normal healing ability. His most recent appearances however were turly dissapointing, he got his ass kicked by a buch of rent a cops in what seemed like pretty low level power armour.

Rage is interesting (to me anyway) in that he's one of the characters that exemplifies much of what I dislike about how modern Marvel changed in it's writing of established heroes, especially since the whole 'reboot' (which honestly to me felt like completely unnecssary and seemed to exist solely to give a reason to bring Miles Morales into the prime reality). Prior to the reboot most of the heroes, especially the Avengers went out of their way to put a stop to underrage characters participating in superheroics (Rage was kicked out of the Avengers, the young Avengers and Runaways were forcefully disabanded etc.), yet after the reboot not only were the established heroes all suddenly perfectly fine with young teen heroes going into combat (the main Avengers team has Miles and Kamala Khan for example) some even went out of their way to encourage teens to take up superheroics (Tony Stark with Ironheart)
'A shared universe, like any fictional construct, hinges on suspension of disbelief. When continuity is tossed away, it tatters the construct. Undermines it'
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